16 minutes ago, 300sd said:

Yeh Carney is a smart cookie, or the biggest fool who knows exactly what he is doing. Why would a so called good economist join up with a group of countries that will most likely be the epicentre of a sovereign debt crisis? It's like Carney has had his country rescued from the US by climbing aboard the Titanic. Unfortunately the Titanic has already hit the iceberg. They'll suck any lifeblood out of Canada. Why does Canada need to "join up." Trade with them at arms length! T

EU debt to GDP is close to US debt to GDP. EU is not suffering from a full scale sovereign debt crisis but like US has underlying vulnerabilities and debt pressure. Trump forced a rewrite of Canada's trade strategy and Carney has to reduce its economic reliance on the unreliable United States and actively divert trade. Trade is the fundamental lifeblood of all countries. More trade, more growth. It is comical fr you to say that more trade with EU will suck the lifeblood out of Canada. Canada will likely to cut all their remaining F-35 from EU. Meanwhile EU countries will reduce their military weapons sourcing from US. US export of military weapons to EU has significantly dropped by 25%. This just an aspect of trade lost due to Trump's illogical trade war with the world.

Edited September 18Sep 18 by Eric Loh
wrong word

17 hours ago, save the frogs said:

Ursula in her speech said "it's not a coalition against anyone".

But it is, to some extent.

Both Canada and EU are protecting themselves against the US with this move.

To some degree that's true. But following on from Ursulla the next day, Carney also said this is not about creating a new power block ("with better manners") to challenge existing powers. So my sense is really this is just a rethink of how to partner and who to partner with across various disciplines. Widening the playing field if you like. End of the day, the US is still Canada's largest trading partner - quite naturally - and I doubt that will change even with tariffs or EU assoc membership, etc.

1 hour ago, 300sd said:

Yeh Carney is a smart cookie, or the biggest fool who knows exactly what he is doing. Why would a so called good economist join up with a group of countries that will most likely be the epicentre of a sovereign debt crisis? It's like Carney has had his country rescued from the US by climbing aboard the Titanic. Unfortunately the Titanic has already hit the iceberg. They'll suck any lifeblood out of Canada. Why does Canada need to "join up." Trade with them at arms length! T

Isn't it US which is called Titanic? With a demented mad house inmate as captain?

So Carney jumped off the sinking ship with all their clowns and freaks joining a Community with values, power, and stability

1 minute ago, newbee2022 said:

Isn't it US which is called Titanic? With a demented mad house inmate as captain?

So Carney jumped off the sinking ship with all their clowns and freaks joining a Community with values, power, and stability

By a "Community with values, power, and stability" you mean China, yes?

Did Canada no recently enter into some trade and military agreements with China?

As I understand it, one of the reasons Carney stormed out of the trade meeting was that the US would not allow Cananda to effectively facilitate trans-shipment from China to the US.

You no doubt heard something different.

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

Trade is the fundamental lifeblood of all countries. More trade, more growth. It is comical fr you to say that more trade with EU will suck the lifeblood out of Canada.

Yes of course it is. Tell me where I said "more trade", will suck the lifeblood out of Canada? Also might want to read my last sentence! I said: "trade with them at arms length". Have a bloody free trade agreement. They don't need to join up with the EU. It's a sinking ship! The US will be sinking most likely also but they are still the best looking horse in the glue factory!

It should be remembered that there is no precise definition of "associate member". At this point, it's mainly a concept.

1 hour ago, 300sd said:

Yes of course it is. Tell me where I said "more trade", will suck the lifeblood out of Canada? Also might want to read my last sentence! I said: "trade with them at arms length". Have a bloody free trade agreement. They don't need to join up with the EU. It's a sinking ship! The US will be sinking most likely also but they are still the best looking horse in the glue factory!

Trade is entirely dependent on reliability and consistency. EU offered that process, US do not. Carney is correct in his decision to divert trade from US to EU. If US is a good looking horse, it is rotting inside because of Trump’s destructive and self-inflicted economic policies.

19 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Trade is entirely dependent on reliability and consistency. EU offered that process, US do not. Carney is correct in his decision to divert trade from US to EU. If US is a good looking horse, it is rotting inside because of Trump’s destructive and self-inflicted economic policies.

Great, let him facilitate China trans-shipping into the EU.

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Great, let him facilitate China trans-shipping into the EU.

What Canada-China trade agreement are you fantasizing to made your ridiculous argument. Carney is not pursuing a trade agreement. The talks between Canada and China is preliminary agreement to lower retaliatory tariffs. Please keep updated.

4 hours ago, candide said:

It should be remembered that there is no precise definition of "associate member". At this point, it's mainly a concept.

Who knows how much was negotiated before the agreement was made?

UK, Ukraine, Turkey may also become associate members?

2 hours ago, save the frogs said:

Who knows how much was negotiated before the agreement was made?

UK, Ukraine, Turkey may also become associate members?

It's not clear so far. The 2023 German-French proposal states that associate members would be in the single market (so Norway or Switzerland would be associate members), but it was just a proposal to be discussed.

https://newseu.cgtn.com/news/2023-09-26/France-and-Germany-propose-new-multi-tier-European-Union-1noBaS7T9Wo/index.html

As a reminder, the single market means:

Free movement of goods

Free movement of services

Free movement of capital

Free movement of people

If overseas countries such as Canada or Australia were to be included, I assume that they may not be required to fully join the single market. It's only a personal opinion.

It is also possible that associate members participate 'a la carte' in some initiatives, such as student exchange (Erasmus), R&D programs, etc...

More details about multi-speed Europe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-speed_Europe

26 minutes ago, candide said:

Free movement of people

Carney mentioned free movement of people in his speech.

7 hours ago, candide said:

It's not clear so far. The 2023 German-French proposal states that associate members would be in the single market (so Norway or Switzerland would be associate members), but it was just a proposal to be discussed.

https://newseu.cgtn.com/news/2023-09-26/France-and-Germany-propose-new-multi-tier-European-Union-1noBaS7T9Wo/index.html

As a reminder, the single market means:

Free movement of goods

Free movement of services

Free movement of capital

Free movement of people

If overseas countries such as Canada or Australia were to be included, I assume that they may not be required to fully join the single market. It's only a personal opinion.

It is also possible that associate members participate 'a la carte' in some initiatives, such as student exchange (Erasmus), R&D programs, etc...

More details about multi-speed Europe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-speed_Europe

I expect a lot of regulatory alignment. Mutual recognition for instance of medtech and medicines for instance. Australia and Canada are already aligned on medtech, or MDSAP. A lot of ISO-13485 is built into that. The EU MDR needs to move towards MDSAP, but that's the general direction of travel. Ironically, EU cooperation in this regard will open Europe more to US imports thanks to the regulatory alignment.

21 hours ago, newbee2022 said:

Isn't it US which is called Titanic? With a demented mad house inmate as captain?

So Carney jumped off the sinking ship with all their clowns and freaks joining a Community with values, power, and stability

Not so sure about that newbee. Carney with 4 out of 5 of his elbows up mass of supporters. Reminds me of a Quote: There is broad support for the fight, but far less support for enduring the cost. Here's an interesting article: https://nationalpost.com/opinion/canadians-support-hard-line-against-u-s-but-dont-want-to-pay-for-it

On 9/17/2026 at 9:36 AM, Thingamabob said:

Donald Trump won't be around for ever.

His voters will be though.

30 minutes ago, 300sd said:

Not so sure about that newbee. Carney with 4 out of 5 of his elbows up mass of supporters. Reminds me of a Quote: There is broad support for the fight, but far less support for enduring the cost. Here's an interesting article: https://nationalpost.com/opinion/canadians-support-hard-line-against-u-s-but-dont-want-to-pay-for-it

"Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die."

Careful Canada... the EU is Hotel California. Remember the "warm smell of colitas rising through the air" at the start... then it goes south badly, that's the EU for you.

11 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

"Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die."

Carney is a fool. Short term thinking due to hot tempered Trump derangement mind loss.

He's thinking like a rioter.

"Tomorrow you're homeless, tonight it's a blast". Jello Biafra. DK.

23 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Carney is a fool. Short term thinking due to hot tempered Trump derangement mind loss.

He's thinking like a rioter.

"Tomorrow you're homeless, tonight it's a blast". Jello Biafra. DK.

Pandering to his deranged base.

"Eat, drink and be merry, tomorrow? We diet.

19 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Pandering to his deranged base.

"Eat, drink and be merry, tomorrow? We diet.

Signing away decades a couple of years before the election.

Maybe he knows leftist psycho AOC will run for the Dems? Guaranteed failure.

Although I still would if she agreed to hide those teeth on the vinegar stroke.😄

Well that didn't take long. Isn't it amazing how quick things can move if Trump isn't involved.

---

30 minutes ago, gargamon said:

Well that didn't take long. Isn't it amazing how quick things can move if Trump isn't involved.

---

Is it your position that this is not because of Trump?

51 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Is it your position that this is not because of Trump?

A global ocean observation alliance supporting a system that is co‑sponsored by IOC‑UNESCO and the WMO, I doubt it! 🤣

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Is it your position that this is not because of Trump?

Trump is definitely the cause. His incompetence has made many other countries form alliances that do not include the US.

13 minutes ago, gargamon said:

Trump is definitely the cause. His incompetence has made many other countries form alliances that do not include the US.

So it was because of Trump, thanks.

NATO members increasing their military spending is also due to Trump's incompetence as well, yes?

On 9/17/2026 at 8:33 PM, save the frogs said:

You might be on to something.

Well, who was it? Cameron? He tried to negotiate with Brussels, but they were inflexible.

So it lead to Brexit.

But why are they being flexible with Canada?

Also, what's the joke? EU's biggest export is regulations?

They stab it with their steely knives but they just can't kill the beast.

Or maybe things are different now because of the US ....

Exactly! Strange that this "associate membership" status has just appeared out of nowhere - nothing like this came up when the UK was trying to find a way out. I bet VDL doesn't even know what it even is yet. It sounds like the EU is doing the cherry-picking that it accused the UK of 10 years ago.

Oh my, not just Europe...

And I bet Canada's “deals on the table“ materialize, unlike those Trump is always saying are two weeks away but never happen.

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Edited yesterday at 10:19 AM1 day by gargamon

4 minutes ago, gargamon said:

Oh my, not just Europe...

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Why is Trump on the poster?

Oh, the midterms....

12 minutes ago, gargamon said:

Oh my, not just Europe...

And I bet Canada's “deals on the table“ materialize, unlike those Trump is always saying are two weeks away but never happen.

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Wow! Nearly $18 per customer.

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Exactly! Strange that this "associate membership" status has just appeared out of nowhere - nothing like this came up when the UK was trying to find a way out. I bet VDL doesn't even know what it even is yet. It sounds like the EU is doing the cherry-picking that it accused the UK of 10 years ago.

And it's not like the concept of associate member would have been proposed in 2023, 3 years after Brexit and 3 years before the current OP news! 🤣

https://newseu.cgtn.com/news/2023-09-26/France-and-Germany-propose-new-multi-tier-European-Union-1noBaS7T9Wo/index.html