1 minute ago, Tourist2 said:

Alright, look. Atheism is the ultimate midwit cope.

It’s the guy who watched a Carl Sagan documentary once, read half a Reddit thread, and decided the entire universe is just a big accident that somehow produced him so he can sit on Aseannow and feel superior while his life falls apart.

You really believe nothing exploded into everything, then nothing arranged itself into DNA, then nothing decided to care about justice, beauty, and whether your kids turn out okay?

That’s not skepticism.

That’s LARPing as the smartest guy in the room while outsourcing all the hard questions to “muh science” that still can’t tell you why there’s something rather than nothing.

Every atheist I’ve ever met eventually does the same dance.

They say “there’s no evidence for God,” then they demand evidence that meets their private little laboratory rules that they made up after the fact.

Meanwhile the universe is screaming design at them.

Fine-tuning constants that if they wiggle a tiny bit, no stars, no chemistry, no you.

Irreducible complexity in cells that look like factories.

Consciousness that isn’t just meat firing electricity.

And they go “well… it just happened.”

- That’s not an argument.

That’s a shrug with a superiority complex.

And morality? Don’t even start.

Atheists love to lecture everybody about “human rights” and “equality” while standing on a foundation they just denied exists.

If we’re all just clever apes who got lucky in a meaningless void, then “right and wrong” is just preference.

Your preference against murder is exactly as valid as a psychopath’s preference for it.

You don’t get to smuggle in Christian ethics after you kicked the Author out of the story.

That’s theft.

At least Nietzsche had the balls to admit it and go full abyss.

Most of these guys aren’t brave free-thinkers.

They’re allergic to the idea that they might actually be accountable to Someone higher than their feelings. Mongers were addressed in the Bible so beware.

It’s easier to pretend the sky is empty than to deal with the possibility that the same God who made the stars also has opinions about how you lives!

Pride is the original sin for a reason

You want a real refutation?

Look at the fruit.

Societies that take the “no God, just us” idea seriously don’t become enlightened utopias.

They become depressed, atomized, birth-rate collapsing, porn-brained messes where people medicate the void with SSRIs and fake politics.

Meanwhile the people who actually act like there’s a Creator and a moral order tend to build families, communities, and cathedrals that last.

Funny how that works.

I’m not saying every atheist is a monster.

Some of them are just lost and repeating the same script they heard in college.

But the ideology itself is a dead end.

It’s the intellectual equivalent of declaring yourself an orphan while standing in your father’s house eating his food.

At some point you either admit the house has an Owner… or you keep yelling into the empty rooms like it makes you profound.

That’s it.

You believe in a magic sky fairy who created himself. You have not seen him. You have no explanation why he allows murders and wars. But if you say nice things to him you go to heaven to meet Jimi Hendrix and Elvis.

Good luck!

I have no idea how the universe started but the sky fairy named god makes no sense. He magically appeared. He then created the universe. Waits 8bn years then creates the earth. Waits another 4bn years and creates humans.

The god theory is beyond ridiculous.

1 minute ago, khaosokman said:

I have no idea how the universe started but the sky fairy named god makes no sense. He magically appeared. He then created the universe. Waits 8bn years then creates the earth. Waits another 4bn years and creates humans.

The god theory is beyond ridiculous.

Everyone knows Brahma created the universe.

53 minutes ago, saintdomingo said:

Sez you anyway, but the book does not mention it.

why do you call yourself saint?

is he your favorite saint? are you a priest?

5 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

why do you call yourself saint?

is he your favorite saint? are you a priest?

I'm guessing Santo Domingo in Dominican Republic or Dominic De Guzman, a priest

5 hours ago, save the frogs said:

No I haven't picked up a Bible since I don't remember when.

But we need to put these books down. They were meant for people at the time 2000 years ago.

missed the point

50 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I'm guessing Santo Domingo in Dominican Republic or Dominic De Guzman, a priest

Here, I found some fun reading for you. Now, this is coming from a pastor who still believes in God and Jesus and still adheres to the Bible.

He is being way too kind, advising people to put the Bible down for a season. The Bible should be put down for good. I think we should be extreme and scrap the entire book.

It doesn't mean "God doesn't exist". But the Bible is mostly harmful, not good. It may be one of the worst places to get information about God. Maybe it's best to wait for physicists to make progress to figure out what God really is.

And The Book of Revelations probably has driven some people to madness.

https://brianzahnd.com/2016/06/when-the-bible-is-bad-for-you/

But here’s something else I know: The Bible can be bad for you!

As a pastor I’ve seen people do real harm to themselves and others with the Bible. This is why I have on occasion counseled a troubled soul to either restrict their Bible reading to the Gospels or even stop reading the Bible all-together for a season.

If you want a violent, retributive God, the Bible will give that to you.
If you want capital punishment, the Bible will give that to you.
If you want to hate your enemies, the Bible will give that to you.
If you want divine warrant for your every opinion, the Bible will give that to you.
If you want to be a smug, self-righteous, know-it-all, the Bible will give that to you.
If you want assurance that only people like you are going to heaven, the Bible will give that to you.

And that’s when the Bible is bad for you!

Edited yesterday at 09:22 AM1 day by save the frogs

Here, he claims "Jesus saves the Bible".

No, no, no.

Jesus might be more believable if it was completely separated from the rest of the Bible.

https://brianzahnd.com/2016/06/when-the-bible-is-bad-for-you/

... stoning Sabbath-breakers, and slaughtering Canaanite children all belong to the story of how the chosen people arrive at Messiah. But once Messiah has come, everything must be re-evaluated according to what Jesus taught. Jesus saves the Bible from itself. It’s Jesus who saves the Bible from being just another violent and vengeful religious text.

4 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Here, I found some fun reading for you. Now, this is coming from a pastor who still believes in God and Jesus and still adheres to the Bible.

He is being way too kind, advising people to put the Bible down for a season. The Bible should be put down for good. I think we should be extreme and scrap the entire book.

It doesn't mean "God doesn't exist". But the Bible is mostly harmful, not good. It may be one of the worst places to get information about God. Maybe it's best to wait for physicists to make progress to figure out what God really is.

https://brianzahnd.com/2016/06/when-the-bible-is-bad-for-you/

But here’s something else I know: The Bible can be bad for you!

As a pastor I’ve seen people do real harm to themselves and others with the Bible. This is why I have on occasion counseled a troubled soul to either restrict their Bible reading to the Gospels or even stop reading the Bible all-together for a season.

If you want a violent, retributive God, the Bible will give that to you.
If you want capital punishment, the Bible will give that to you.
If you want to hate your enemies, the Bible will give that to you.
If you want divine warrant for your every opinion, the Bible will give that to you.
If you want to be a smug, self-righteous, know-it-all, the Bible will give that to you.
If you want assurance that only people like you are going to heaven, the Bible will give that to you.

And that’s when the Bible is bad for you!

I've read it many times, and know the gist of it. The main things any preacher will tell you to do is concentrate on the New Testament, as the Old is basically history of how things were a long time ago and how things got started with man and his ways. When Jesus started teaching is when the real studying should happen, which is the main reason he came to earth.

No scientists will ever dismiss God although they'll find out more about the universe's history. I always saw the Bible as stories, some of which were hard to believe. The fact remains is that most of what happened that long ago cannot be discredited as we weren't there.

Nothing in the Bible ever taught me to hurt anyone or to believe everything I read, as some things in most any books can be discredited, especially from so many different writers. Have you read the Bible in it's entirety?

Nobody reads books anymore. Youtube is the modern bible. Walkabout Wayne is Moses and Paddy Doyle is Jesus.

14 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Have you read the Bible in it's entirety?

The Bible is an evil book disguised as a holy book. It was written by "demonic forces".

Most people who call themselves Christians are harmless precisely because they don't read the Bible.

But the people who read The Bible regularly can actually become dangerous. And have been dangerous. The documentary "Lake of Fire" shows extremist violence by Christians on abortion clinics. Because the Bible damages your brain. If you read it too much, you will become crazy.

And I just gave you a clear example. Even a pastor has to get his followers to put the Bible down because he sees that it's causing them harm. Because it's an evil book.

1 hour ago, save the frogs said:

why do you call yourself saint?

is he your favorite saint? are you a priest?

1 hour ago, fredwiggy said:

I'm guessing Santo Domingo in Dominican Republic or Dominic De Guzman, a priest

No from the area of Liverpool I grew up in, it was a City Council ward in those days. The name came from a wealthy shipowner and trader who made his money from trading with St Domingo, built a big home in that area and had the area named St Domingo by the local authority. It grew into a busy working class area and predominantly a Protestant one.

2 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

The Bible is an evil book disguised as a holy book. It was written by "demonic forces".

Most people who call themselves Christians are harmless precisely because they don't read the Bible.

But the people who read The Bible regularly can actually become dangerous. And have been dangerous. The documentary "Lake of Fire" shows extremist violence by Christians on abortion clinics. Because the Bible damages your brain. If you read it too much, you will become crazy.

And I just gave you a clear example. Even a pastor has to get his followers to put the Bible down because he sees that it's causing them harm. Because it's an evil book.

Not sure where you got that info but likely from those who hate God, as those that just don't believe aren't so harsh. Millions of people read the Bible, including non Christians. There is and always has been Bible studies in church services as well as after church studies where the Bible is taught story by story. This happens in all types of churches. One pastor's opinion doesn't reflect the thousands more.

I haven't seen any of these dangerous Bible readers, so that's likely another opinion by a hater, who's trying to turn some into other haters, which doesn't work besides with the weak.

Again, teaching people about God isn't harmful as it can make them abide by God's laws, as well as participating in fellowship with many others.

Ok, you get the last word Fred.

I'm outta here.

Yes the bible preaches extreme violence

• 1 Samuel 15:3 – "Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys."

• Deuteronomy 20:16–17 – "However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them..."

• Joshua 6:21 – (At Jericho) "They devoted the city to the Lord and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it—men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys."

Some more hate in the bible

• Exodus 21:20–21 – "Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave survives a day or two, since the slave is their property."

• Leviticus 20:13 – "If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death..."

• Deuteronomy 21:18–21 – Permits parents of a stubbornly rebellious son to bring him to the city elders to be stoned to death by the community.

On 9/19/2026 at 2:55 PM, save the frogs said:

Maybe there is no such thing as "nothingness".

Only after we were born we became "something". Before we were "nothing". Considering the fact that we were "nothing" before we were born and we will be "nothing" again after death (my conviction).

That would mean, that during most of the universal time, we spend our time in "nothingness". Before and after. What a waste of time. ☹️

3 hours ago, save the frogs said:

extremist violence by Christians on abortion clinics.

Some of us believe abotion clinics do extremist violence against babies who now kill babies up to conception.
That IS demonic if you havmorals and ethics.

Look, a whoremonger isn’t out here building a family, protecting a woman, or thinking past the next transaction.

He’s optimizing for low-commitment access.

Pregnancy is friction.
A kid is a permanent receipt.

Abortion deletes the receipt. That’s the entire logic.
No deeper moral wrestling required.

He already treats sex as a consumer good.
Once you’ve decided another human body is a vending machine for dopamine and status, the downstream “cleanup” of an unwanted pregnancy doesn’t suddenly trigger some sacred regard for life.
Consistency would demand that.
But the lifestyle selects against consistency.
It selects for whatever keeps the options open and the consequences externalized.
You’ll notice the same pattern with a lot of high-time-preference men who talk a big game about “choice” when it suits them and suddenly discover ethics only when it costs them something.

The guy who sees nothing wrong with abortion in that context isn’t having a profound philosophical insight. He’s just protecting the business model of his own appetites.

That’s the short version. The longer version is the same thing said slower with more swearing and a bit about how civilization used to shame this exact mindset instead of handing it a participation trophy and a clinic.

2 hours ago, khaosokman said:

Leviticus 20:13 – "If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death..."

Consider yourself lucky they abolished that law.

18 minutes ago, swissie said:

Only after we were born we became "something". Before we were "nothing". Considering the fact that we were "nothing" before we were born and we will be "nothing" again after death (my conviction).

That would mean, that during most of the universal time, we spend our time in "nothingness". Before and after. What a waste of time. ☹️

Could be millions of years of nothingness awaiting us, I guess.

It's frightening. That's why most people don't spend much time thinking about it.

11 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Could be millions of years of nothingness awaiting us, I guess.

It's frightening. That's why most people don't spend much time thinking about it.

I wish it would be the other way around. I'd rather spend my "universal time" in a bar in Pattaya instead of "nothingness". Of course, it would be cheaper. 😁😁😁

8 hours ago, Tourist2 said:

He’s optimizing for low-commitment access.

What's wrong with low commitment?

So what are you then? A Bible guy? A born again? What's your deal?

8 hours ago, Tourist2 said:

Some of us believe abotion clinics do extremist violence against babies who now kill babies up to conception.
That IS demonic if you havmorals and ethics.

You're right. Maybe abortion is not the best, so my argument was not valid.

Point taken.

8 hours ago, swissie said:

I wish it would be the other way around. I'd rather spend my "universal time" in a bar in Pattaya instead of "nothingness". Of course, it would be cheaper. 😁😁😁

So an eternity being drunk and throwing money at women who see you as nothing but cash and no sex? There won't be nothingness but if that was the only two choices not being around anymore would be the better one. Doing the same senseless thing forever would have you lose your mind rather quickly.

If there were nothingness and fishing at a lake I'd rather have that, where at least you could spend much of the time watching sunrise and sunsets, catching and releasing big fish, cooking them and eating, enjoying a glass of wine, and smelling the nature. The thing is, we don't have a choice as we'll all be seeing God, and how we lived our lives beforehand will see how the forever goes.

Edited 22 hours ago22 hr by fredwiggy

1 hour ago, fredwiggy said:

If there were nothingness and fishing at a lake I'd rather have that, where at least you could spend much of the time watching sunrise and sunsets, catching and releasing big fish

But maybe he doesn't like fishing.

So what are you doing now? Micro-managing people's afterlife?

4 hours ago, save the frogs said:

But maybe he doesn't like fishing.

So what are you doing now? Micro-managing people's afterlife?

No, that would be up to them.I gave a possible scenario for both.

On 9/18/2026 at 5:16 PM, fredwiggy said:

Most people believe in God. The Catholic church, as well as all others, have had scandals because some use religions wrong. Again, seeing you missed it earlier. I wasn't brainwashed but taught. It's always been up to me what I believed. Anyone who thinks the universe and all the things in it came from nothing is living a fantasy, and all will find out when they pass. Some of us will be prepared.

Hate to break this to ya but in UK over 50% of citizens have no religious faith whatsoever. Of the 40+% who have faith they are split between various religions with their own gods.

Source: UK census 2021.

So no, most people don’t believe in god.

On 9/19/2026 at 11:45 AM, khaosokman said:

China has 1.4bn people. Mostly atheists.

Explains why theyre such <deleted>...

14 minutes ago, Red Forever said:

Hate to break this to ya but in UK over 50% of citizens have no religious faith whatsoever. Of the 40+% who have faith they are split between various religions with their own gods.

Source: UK census 2021.

So no, most people don’t believe in god.

Not sure what opinion you got that from but it's easy to look up the percentages of those who believe..............Key Breakdown of Global Belief

• Religious Affiliation (~75% to 84%): About 75% to 84% of people globally identify with a religious group (such as Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, or folk religions) that traditionally incorporates belief in a deity or spiritual forces.

• Direct Surveys on Belief (~83%): Global attitude surveys, such as multi-country studies by organizations like the Pew Research Center, find that around 83% of adults explicitly state they believe in God when polled directly.

• The Unaffiliated Nuance: Even among people who identify as "religiously unaffiliated" (atheists, agnostics, or "nothing in particular"), many still hold spiritual beliefs or believe in a higher power.Regional Differences

  Belief levels vary widely depending on the region:

  • Highest Rates (90%+): Sub-Saharan Africa, parts of the Middle East, South Asia (like India, Bangladesh, and Indonesia), and Latin America report the highest rates of belief in God.

  • Lowest Rates: Parts of East Asia (such as China) and Western/Northern Europe show much lower percentages of traditional religious belief or identification.

  • Census data: In the 2021 UK censuses (such as the Office for National Statistics Census 2021 for England and Wales), those identifying with "No religion" rose to 37.2%, while those identifying as Christian dropped to 46.2% This shows more believe in at least the God with some a deity or other religions.

In major national surveys (such as those by Gallup, Pew Research, and YouGov):

• 39% to 45% of American adults explicitly state that they believe ghosts or spirits of dead people can return or exist.

• About 19% to 20% report being unsure, while around 42% flatly disbelieve.

• Roughly 20% of Americans (about 1 in 5) claim to have personally seen or experienced a ghost.

On 9/19/2026 at 7:25 PM, fredwiggy said:

But my mind has never been restricted, as I've always researched, read and listened so I could find out what is real and what isn't, and it's a never ending process. I don't need to preach to God but I will surely listen when we talk.

Don't you mean you want god to listen when you talk?