Constructive Suggestions About Thai Immigration Policy

[Jingthing]

On another thread, it was mentioned that it is known that Thai immigration reads this site. I am sure they learn alot from doing that.

Anyway, as the "clients" of Thai immigration, I thought we might want to have a dedicated thread for suggestions/feedback directed at Thai immigration.

Please keep this thread civil and on topic if we hope to have any positive influence.

[apetley]

Would suggest that they take a leaf out of the Malaysian and Philipines ideas on retirement and think out a more considered policy.

[taxexile]

it is known that Thai immigration reads this site.

the people at thai immigration are to be praised to heaven and thanked for their unflinching helpfulness , efficiency professionalism , good nature and understanding and for their willingness to 'go that extra mile' without fuss or fluster.

that they are a credit to the country surely goes without saying.

signed

taxexile

uk passport number tk 4635746589 b

Edited September 3, 2007 by taxexile

[Jingthing]

Path to Retired Permanent Residence

Many people on retirement extensions are feeling very insecure about their long term future in Thailand. Older retired people need stability in their lives. As you know, permanent residence is not offered to people on retirement extensions. I suggest creating a new class of permanent resident status, a retired permanent residence, where those with a clean local record and five years consequetive annual extensions based on retirement, receive (upon application and a large fee) a lifetime retired permanent residence status with annual extensions no longer required. That way, these older people who have proven their stability receive a reward of knowing they have truly found the home they can stay in for the rest of their lives.

Of course, there are many alternative ways to provide more stability, such as 5 or 10 year retirement visas.

Visa Priveledges for Retired Condo Owners

Development of condos for the foreigner market is a big business in Thailand, especially in Phuket and Pattaya. Retirees who buy condos buy them mostly to live in them for the rest of their lives, not to rent them or sell later. However, there is a problem of insecurity of buying housing and being uncertain about being able to live in their Thai condo long term because of visa uncertainty. I suggest that the housing priveledge immigration policy of Mexico be copied, whereby retirees who buy their housing (in Thailand's case, the only legal way condos) can qualify financially using only 50 percent of the usual full requirement. For example, instead of 800K baht, 400K if you can prove direct ownership of a Thai condo. The reasons for this are a retiree who buys a condo has demonstrated a large financial commitment to living in Thailand, such retirees don't pay rent and thus require less money for living expenses, and also this would be a great sales incentive benefit for the segment of the Thai real estate industry that caters to foreigners. Buyers would also be comforted to know that Thailand offers condo buyers a stable market and they will know should they choose to sell later and leave Thailand, the country will continue to be an attractive and secure retirement destination.

Edited September 3, 2007 by Jingthing

[PeaceBlondie]

Sir or Madam, I have always been treated professionally by the employees of the Immigration Police of Thailand. I have some things for you to consider, please. I appreciate your kind attention to these matters which distress me seriously at this time.

Sir, how many Thais with your level of personal wealth would move to a foreign country where they had to prostrate themselves before some minor officer every year, and beg for the privilege of remaining in the country where they'd settled, bought property, spent ten times the wages of the average citizen, and perhaps made some babies? We have not been fools, but perhaps the easy friendliness of the Thai people fooled us into thinking that Thailand wanted us here, and still might want us to stay here.

Sir, when you retire in comfort with your govt. pension (as I did with my pension), would you want the rest of your elderly life dependent on the capricious whims of somebody whom you can't even talk to? Are your bags packed even now, so that you can take the next flight out of this Kingdom? That is the difficulty we fear we may face unless your regulations are consistently explained and published and enforced over several years' time.

Sir, you may have found a way to reduce your workload. Soon there may only a few farang left in Thailand, and your department will be out of a job. Is that what you really want, no farang, no immigration work to do?

Sir or Madam, would it threaten national security, Thainess, Thai culture and language, if you simply let well-mannered farang receive five year retirement visas? I'd also like to ask you to reconsider outright and home ownership to foreigners. I seriously doubt that would be too threatening to everything that your ancestors did to make Thailand Thai.

Thank you for listening. Otherwise, many of us are leaving Thailand and taking all our hard earned currency with us.

[Orita]

There have been some excellent suggestions made in the above postings.

At the very least, retires presently holding valid retirement visas should not be forced to leave the country, just because they no longer qualify due to the new age requirement.

Once accepted under a certain set of conditions, those retires should be allowed to stay under the

same set of rules.

[retiredusn]

There have been some excellent suggestions made in the above postings.

At the very least, retires presently holding valid retirement visas should not be forced to leave the country, just because they no longer qualify due to the new age requirement.

Once accepted under a certain set of conditions, those retires should be allowed to stay under the

same set of rules.

I agree with the positive statements made in these postings. The wife and I found our home here in Thailand and have at all times been legal If the powers to be would Just put into place one policy for retirement (permission to stay) visa's or for any of the visa's we would follow the law, but is very hard to be lawful when you do not know the law day to day. Hopefully staying ,,,but we are packing.

[tartempion]

I don't think they learn anyhting from us.

All I can say is that I am getting fed-up with the way they treat us.

And although my pension is over 65k/month and although I have built a house here I am considering selling the place at a loss and go live somewhere else if they increase the requirements for pension.

I guess that's what they want: have us leave the country, they only want 'good' tourists who do not stay more than one month.

[chiang mai]

Dear Immigration Department,

I like Thailand the climate and it's people, that's why I wanted to live here. I've studied at University to learn your language and I've happily spent over a million baht a year here for the past five years. I've bought property here (to live in, not to sell on), made capital purchases and have never had a run in the your law enforcement folks, apart from the odd speeding ticket (I'm sorry about that).

During my early years here I was quiet naive and was frequently ripped off and spent far more money on some things than was fair. I also lived in a state of fear whilst driving knowing that if ever I had an accident I would be at fault and have to pay substantial amounts, simply because I am a Farang. But realizing there were no laws to protect the Farang I took this in my stride.

I have smilingly tolerated government and state beurocracy and inefficiencies which admittedly has wasted a lot of my time and done my blood pressure no good but, I recognize the country is still developing and is not as advanced as others. I have hoped that one day the government might seek to tap the massive resource that is the retired Farang community in Thailand, not for personal gain but in the interests of helping you improve things - most of us would willingly do that. But alas, you have not asked me to help and when my peers have volunteered you have locked them up or deported them

Now it seems with your latest ruling that you are not the least bit interested in being fair and reasonable, humane or considerate and some four hundred ex pats at this site alone share the same view - all of this within a few days of the new ruling being announced, my, isn't it amazing how quickly news travels.

It seems to me that you are prone to change the rules of retirement visa at will and that each change may make my life here more uncertain or difficult. I therefore think I will do as many others have suggested and move to a nearby country where positive retirement policies for Farangs exist and I believe I shall take my money with me - I will however leave my fears here. I may well come back to Thailand for the odd visit periodically but will not spend anywhere close to a small fraction of the money spent here previously. I realize my departure will not harm you, similarly the departure of many of my peers will not hurt you. But one suspects that over time the reputation of Thailand as a Land of False Smiles and its reputation for xenophobia will begin to bite and when it does, I hope all other aspects of your economy are in tip top shape.

[jumnien]

There are pockets of farang living in Thailand that are downright dispicable or it despicable? In any case, a tighter watch on foreign immigration and real enforcement would serve to protect us farang better than we are at the moment. Farang on farang crime, especially scams, is increasing at a horrendous rate. Immigration, please help!

[mouse]

So you say that Immigation monitors this website. Great! Let me then get this off my chest to them !!

I am particlulary upset by the fact that there are so many VISA violators/overstayers, people working without work permit and other violators of the 90 day rule. Why am I upset........Well consider the added expense, trouble and time, that my family and I have given to be here, for me to have the proper VISA, be working legally, when others do so while flaunting the system and saving themselves a considerable amount over what I have had to spend.

I see people that operate Bakeries, Restaruants, Pizzerias, Bars, Coffee Shops, a variety of other shops and of course some that are employed as even employed as School Teachers, all working illegally without Work Permits. In one case the person has been here on a 6 month overstay (without any VISA) and he is teaching at local schools.

What are my suggestions to Immigration?

1.) Start using those fancy computers to match up those that enter the country and those that depart. Those that are left, may likely be here illegally and those residences should be visited. A very simple process of connecting all Immigration points to a central database could make this possible.

2.) In addition to punishing the violator, also make the businesses responsible for hiring these violators and soon the businneses and schools will no longer hire the illegals. This can be done by vigerous inspections and of fining institutions, in addition to the violators heavily. It is something that the schools would certainly understand and comply to quickly.

3.) Change the system and the fines and punishments to reflect the violation of the system. Do not make it cost effective to be a violator.

4.) Give the Immigration Police an incentive of some sort to catch these violators. Say 25% of the fines levied by the court.

5.) Even consider passing rewards to reporting these misfits to the general populace. Every Thai knows what is going on in his or her village or neighborhood.

Only once Thailand gets rid and cleans itself of these type of misfits that cannot or do not want to confrom, wether here or in their home country, only then will the quality tourist come here.

OK! now I have said it, I will shut up, for I feel better for having said it.

Edit done due to spelling errors

Edited September 4, 2007 by mouse

[PeaceBlondie]

Dear Khun Immigration Police high ranking officer,

You see that not all farang agree about what your policies should be, but we all have suggestions. Hopefully you do not think we should merely remain silent and move along as sheep, doing whatever we are told, which frequently changes and is unpredictable. Please notice also, that in addition to comments about immigration enforcement, we have problems getting employed legally here (work permits). However, the Thais beg us to teach their children ILLEGALLY, and to provide them Western food ILLEGALLY.

Surely as law enforcement officers, you have a basic understanding of the quaint Western concept, "the rule of law" We do not see that here sometimes.

The recent announcement that as of 1 September, new rules will apply, still has not been officially announced. However, you can see here what a flurry of excitement it caused us (one topic here has gone over 600 posts and 40,000 viewings in less than four days). Please understand that you may, if you wish, pull the rug out from underneath our feet at any time you choose, because you are powerful. However, your low ranking officers will have a much more difficult job to deal with angry farang, and we will leave. If you announce things with no grandfather clause or no advance warning, it really pisses off farang. Please learn what 'grandfather clause' means in the rule of law, if it sounds foreign to you. Thank you.

[thedi]

I am now 58 years old. My wife (53) and our daughter (13) live full time in Thailand, but I go to work in Switzerland twice a year to earn money, so we can live comfortably in Thailand. For the time being, I have no problems with Immigration: I can get a Non-Immigrant-O Multiple entry visa in Switzerland, based on the marriage certificate without any difficulty.

In about two years time, I plan to retire. To cut down costs, I will sell my property in Switzerland and move to Thailand. I would meet the current visa extension requirements based on 'retired' without any difficulties.

My concern would be the future. As the value of currencies change, and with inflation, I may or may not meet the requirements in an other twenty or more years. At that time I will be quite old. It would be difficult to return to the country where I was born. Financially I should be save there. Switzerland has first class social security for residents. The problem would be on the personal level: I would not have any friends left in Switzerland. My wife was just once, for two month, in Switzerland; and she did not like it. In an other 20 years she would certainly refuse to move to Switzerland. If I would be forced to return to Switzerland at - say - 80 years, after living 20 years in Thailand only, I would be alone there, without friends and without any possibilities to meet new friends. I would be to old to participate in any activities which lead to new friendships in Switzerland.

This are all hypothetical considerations. There is no problem for my current situation. When everything develops as I have a right to expect, I will never get into problem with Thai immigration laws. I hope to live forever with my family in our house in Isarn.

But the thought of incertitude for the future is uncomfortable: things outside of my control may change: immigration rules, currency exchange rates, inflation etc. The older people get, the more they need certainty and reliability - older people are afraid of changes. The Buddhists wisdom of 'Anicca' is certainly true, but this knowledge is no help for the planing of our daily life. I will get old and sick. I would like to have the certainty that my daughter and my family will be able to look after me when I need it. The thought, that it may be possible, that - when old and sick and in need of help - I may be ejected from Thailand by (changing) immigration rules - without any wrongdoing from my side - is horrifying.

With kind regards

Thedi

[Gravelrash]

In the spitit of the topic and its rationale, my experience:

I have a work permit and employ Thai staff in real estate. No doubt all are aware how much that business has dropped over the last 12 months and why. As such the company doesn't make enough money to warrant a work permit so that will be revoked soon. Note that my company is fine with no liabilities, I simply bring in money from overseas to meet the shortfall.

My two children live with and are supported by me as a single father. Both have a Thai mother, one born in Thailand and one overseas, although are here on a foreign passport. Why am I here? I can retire now, although under 50 yo, but working keeps life interesting. I mostly enjoy life here, also as the kids are half Thai I want them to be able to read and write Thai and understand that component of their makeup. I noticed recently that HM the King commented that he had to learn to read and write Thai when he returned to Thailand as a child and encourages Thais to understand their own language. I agree most Thais overseas can speak the language but many cannot read or writie, perhaps the next generation will lose it altogether.

So my delemma is that you will revoke my work permit and visa. My options are for me and my kids to go home where they will undertake a western eductaion and forget about this place. Or I apply for a non-immigrant O as a supporting parent. Now I was going to buy a house in my daughters name, so that the kids would have an asset here and an ongoing connection with the country, however I am growing increasingly worried about this, as you may decide to kick us all out some time in the future. If that occurs I will have wasted my money on asset that can never be utilised, furthermore once purchased it cannot be sold until my daughter comes of age.

Consider whether Thailand wants luk krueng here, they will be well educated and probably as asset to the country. By denying the parent to be able to stay you are effectively forcing your own citizens to get out to another country that in contrast will welcome them.

Either way be clear to us in what it is you want. Do you want retirees? Do you want children born to foreigners to stay or go? Do you want those married to Thais to stay or have those couples leave as well. Choose your policies in regard to those living here, make them clear and stand by them.

[Jingthing]

Excuse me folks, I am not a mod, but I see some off topic posts.

Please keep this thread focused solely on suggestions to Thailand immigration. Thanks.

[PeaceBlondie]

Jingjing, you're right that off-topic posts need to be removed. Please, folks, we started this thread to be one long read of considerate requests to the Thai Immigration Police. There are lots of other threads/topics on ThaiVisa where you can say your peace about other points. Please only post on topic here. Thank you.

[Big A]

the people at thai immigration are to be praised to heaven and thanked for their unflinching helpfulness , efficiency professionalism , good nature and understanding and for their willingness to 'go that extra mile' without fuss or fluster.

that they are a credit to the country surely goes without saying.

signed

taxexile

uk passport number tk 4635746589 b

EXCELLENT!!

[uptou]

sir,india or nepal are looking very attractive to me considering the 6 month tourist visas they give out there,rather than having to leave thailand every 3 months after an extension,or go back to england to get a non immigrant visa.

would it not make sense to just to let people apply for a non immigrant visa here in thailand rather than having to travel across the world to get one?

i'm sure having undesirables in thailand is a factor,but couldnt checks on people be done as easily over here as in the uk?what does having to leave thailand for a visa achieve?

[Artisi]

the people at thai immigration are to be praised to heaven and thanked for their unflinching helpfulness , efficiency professionalism , good nature and understanding and for their willingness to 'go that extra mile' without fuss or fluster.

that they are a credit to the country surely goes without saying.

signed

taxexile

uk passport number tk 4635746589 b

EXCELLENT!!

I agree, my dealings have always been pleasent and attended to in an efficient manner but when I look at some of the people and their manner when applying for visas, extensions etc I am amazed how well the Immigration officials handle some of these people.

I am also happy complying with all fair, reasonable and well thought out rules and regulations and only ask that anyone who has maintained upto date back to back visas for a number of years and have complied with the rules and regulations be given some consideration in the form of longer term visas so that at least we feel a little more secure and not living on a knife edge worrying what might change regarding the rules next week, next month or next time we apply for an extension.

A lot of us have taken the step of trying to make Thailand home, invested in property, married Thai people and contribute to the economy in many different ways, I therefore think it is reasonable to be treated the same as my country treats Thai people who have moved there legally for what-ever reason.

[VBF]

I am also happy complying with all fair, reasonable and well thought out rules and regulations and only ask that anyone who has maintained upto date back to back visas for a number of years and have complied with the rules and regulations be given some consideration in the form of longer term visas so that at least we feel a little more secure and not living on a knife edge worrying what might change regarding the rules next week, next month or next time we apply for an extension.

I totally agree - as I said on another thread and would request Immigration to consider:

How about a 2, 3 or even 5 year Retirement extension after the first one? In other words, we Farang arrive in Thailand, do what we need to do to retire, behave well for a year (as most people do) and be rewarded and trusted with a longer extension. This could go hand in hand with the path towards PR giving serious retirees a chance to prove ourselves, learn some Thai etc.

Edited September 4, 2007 by VBF

[gennisis]

On another thread, it was mentioned that it is known that Thai immigration reads this site. I am sure they learn alot from doing that.

Anyway, as the "clients" of Thai immigration, I thought we might want to have a dedicated thread for suggestions/feedback directed at Thai immigration.

Please keep this thread civil and on topic if we hope to have any positive influence.

The question of Visa's is dependant on your circumstances.

A visitor on holiday simply requires,and is easily and cheaply granted either 'visa on entry' or tourist visa. Many others will wish to stay for a longer period and it is this area that produced the discussions and complaints.

he requirements for 'retirement' does not seem arduous. A modest capital sum and /or a modest pension. Remember Thialand does NOT want scroungers here.

So... the area needing attention is centered on the 'over 21- under 50 band. It isnt unreasonable thesedays that people under 50 are in a position to stop working and live a different life away from their own country. Such people would be good for the Thai economy,they have a higher expenditure lifestyle than most Thai's....BUT.. the visa arrangements for such people is...frankly....non existent.

They can be given a tourist visa...extend it a couple of times...do visa runs. All within the legal framework of the immigration regulations.....but....it seems to be so unnessary when a better system could easily be drafted.

Visa's should be offered,to suitable applicants,based on legnth of validity and subsequent pricing structure. As a example :-

Visa on entry ..validity 3 weeks....free. This is an attraction to yearly holiday makers.

Visa valid for up to 3 months...no extensions...2000baht.

Visa valid for up to 6 months.. no extensions...4000 baht

Visa valid for up to 12 months..no extensions..7000 baht.

Long term stayers simply obtain a new visa at the expirey of their existing one.

Such a system would be (should be) easily followed by the individual immigration officers at the regional offices and entry ports...No more counting days in thailand etc

An objection will be raised by the gentlemen who organise visa runs to border crossings....no buisness for them anymore.

An objection will be raised by the foreign officers of immigration at the foreign border crossings...no more monthly buisness anymore.....but the holder of his/her Thai visa is spending money in Thailand not for a Laos/Myamar/vietnam/Cambodia visa anymore.

Such a system would simplify the visa "experience" and in all likelihood increase the income of Thailand.

Work Permits etc would not be changed...education extensions not needed...simply....

How long do you want to stay?? would be the criteria...just pay up! and enjoy Thailand. L.O.S.[/color]

[chiang mai]

On another thread, it was mentioned that it is known that Thai immigration reads this site. I am sure they learn alot from doing that.

Anyway, as the "clients" of Thai immigration, I thought we might want to have a dedicated thread for suggestions/feedback directed at Thai immigration.

Please keep this thread civil and on topic if we hope to have any positive influence.

The question of Visa's is dependant on your circumstances.

A visitor on holiday simply requires,and is easily and cheaply granted either 'visa on entry' or tourist visa. Many others will wish to stay for a longer period and it is this area that produced the discussions and complaints.

The requirements for 'retirement' does not seem arduous. A modest capital sum and /or a modest pension. Remember Thialand does NOT want scroungers here.

So... the area needing attention is centered on the 'over 21- under 50 band. It isnt unreasonable thesedays that people under 50 are in a position to stop working and live a different life away from their own country. Such people would be good for the Thai economy,they have a higher expenditure lifestyle than most Thai's....BUT.. the visa arrangements for such people is...frankly....non existent.

They can be given a tourist visa...extend it a couple of times...do visa runs. All within the legal framework of the immigration regulations.....but....it seems to be so unnessary when a better system could easily be drafted.

Visa's should be offered,to suitable applicants,based on legnth of validity and subsequent pricing structure. As a example :-

Visa on entry ..validity 3 weeks....free. This is an attraction to yearly holiday makers.

Visa valid for up to 3 months...no extensions...2000baht.

Visa valid for up to 6 months.. no extensions...4000 baht

Visa valid for up to 12 months..no extensions..7000 baht.

Long term stayers simply obtain a new visa at the expirey of their existing one.

Such a system would be (should be) easily followed by the individual immigration officers at the regional offices and entry ports...No more counting days in thailand etc

An objection will be raised by the gentlemen who organise visa runs to border crossings....no buisness for them anymore.

An objection will be raised by the foreign officers of immigration at the foreign border crossings...no more monthly buisness anymore.....but the holder of his/her Thai visa is spending money in Thailand not for a Laos/Myamar/vietnam/Cambodia visa anymore.

Such a system would simplify the visa "experience" and in all likelihood increase the income of Thailand.

Work Permits etc would not be changed...education extensions not needed...simply....

How long do you want to stay?? would be the criteria...just pay up! and enjoy Thailand. L.O.S.

I would like to see the spirit of this thread remain alive and its direction intact but it's difficult to do so with posts such as this.

[Lite Beer]

Red posts do not count

[Jingthing]

I think Mr. G's overall post is silly, but to boil it down he says the current retirement extension is so easy and then proposes a 12 month visa for 7000 baht, endlessly renewable. I can assure you that would be the end of the retirement visa program, why bother with it when you can just pay 7K baht and no worries?

I started this thread to gather realistic suggestions, ones that fit well with the current system but still offer positive change. A visa system where people can arrive with no visa and stay for years, as is the case for example in the Philippines (up to two years with many in-country extensions) is so radically different than the current Thai system as to be unimaginable. I agree it is silly to force so many people to spend so much money in neighboring countries when they just wish to stay in Thailand, but, really, thats kind of the way it is.

Another point. I am not so naive as to expect any of these ideas to be adopted. But it isn't impossible that some would, so its better than doing nothing. I respect that the immigration policy-making officials know their business very well, but only from their perspective. We as their "clients" are also experts on the system because we are the ones living with the rulings. I think if there is any chance we will be listened to, we have to explain the "hook" that relates to the benefit for Thailand. For example, the idea of the retired permanent residence status would be a great new possible source of fees to Thai immigration. I am certain that getting more secure status would be worth a hefty fee on application for many of us, as well as annual fees to stay in the program. I suggest thinking about and mentioning the "hook" that is good for Thailand when making these suggestions, because we surely aren't ever going to get something for nothing.

Edited September 4, 2007 by Jingthing

[Moonfruit]

On another thread, it was mentioned that it is known that Thai immigration reads this site. I am sure they learn alot from doing that.

Anyway, as the "clients" of Thai immigration, I thought we might want to have a dedicated thread for suggestions/feedback directed at Thai immigration.

Please keep this thread civil and on topic if we hope to have any positive influence.

The question of Visa's is dependant on your circumstances.

A visitor on holiday simply requires,and is easily and cheaply granted either 'visa on entry' or tourist visa. Many others will wish to stay for a longer period and it is this area that produced the discussions and complaints.

The requirements for 'retirement' does not seem arduous. A modest capital sum and /or a modest pension. Remember Thialand does NOT want scroungers here.

So... the area needing attention is centered on the 'over 21- under 50 band. It isnt unreasonable thesedays that people under 50 are in a position to stop working and live a different life away from their own country. Such people would be good for the Thai economy,they have a higher expenditure lifestyle than most Thai's....BUT.. the visa arrangements for such people is...frankly....non existent.

They can be given a tourist visa...extend it a couple of times...do visa runs. All within the legal framework of the immigration regulations.....but....it seems to be so unnessary when a better system could easily be drafted.

Visa's should be offered,to suitable applicants,based on legnth of validity and subsequent pricing structure. As a example :-

Visa on entry ..validity 3 weeks....free. This is an attraction to yearly holiday makers.

Visa valid for up to 3 months...no extensions...2000baht.

Visa valid for up to 6 months.. no extensions...4000 baht

Visa valid for up to 12 months..no extensions..7000 baht.

Long term stayers simply obtain a new visa at the expirey of their existing one.

Such a system would be (should be) easily followed by the individual immigration officers at the regional offices and entry ports...No more counting days in thailand etc

An objection will be raised by the gentlemen who organise visa runs to border crossings....no buisness for them anymore.

An objection will be raised by the foreign officers of immigration at the foreign border crossings...no more monthly buisness anymore.....but the holder of his/her Thai visa is spending money in Thailand not for a Laos/Myamar/vietnam/Cambodia visa anymore.

Such a system would simplify the visa "experience" and in all likelihood increase the income of Thailand.

Work Permits etc would not be changed...education extensions not needed...simply....

How long do you want to stay?? would be the criteria...just pay up! and enjoy Thailand. L.O.S.

While others seem to have rubbished this idea, i actually quite like it. Its simple, easily workable but obviously needs some working.

I see that others are suggesting being able to get a visa in country etc etc. This is not possible where i come from, nor any other western country that i am aware of. In fact, in relation to the immigration requirements of where i am from, plus the other country where i spend much of my time, Thailand laws are quite relaxed.

The bottom line for me is that the Immigration Dept. here should make up their mind what they want, what they require and stick with it, instead of all the chopping and changing. As the old saying goes, 'You make your decision and you stand by it.'

[VBF]

I think if there is any chance we will be listened to, we have to explain the "hook" that relates to the benefit for Thailand. For example, the idea of the retired permanent residence status would be a great new possible source of fees to Thai immigration. I am certain that getting more secure status would be worth a hefty fee on application for many of us, as well as annual fees to stay in the program. I suggest thinking about and mentioning the "hook" that is good for Thailand when making these suggestions, because we surely aren't ever going to get something for nothing.

As you say Jingthing, there needs to be a benefit for all sides. I believe that if Farang Retirees were made to feel welcome and secure, then Thailand would benefit. How? Well, there would be more incentive to put down roots, buy whatever property you're allowed to own in which to live, buy a car and generally tell other, like minded people that Thailand really is still the "Land of Smiles." There could still be penalties for those who deliberately flouted the rules (obviously) in fact there would probably (?) be Farang support for penalties against those who spoilt it for the majority.

Slightly OT but related - what about relaxing property owning rules provided the property was your prime dwelling? Maybe only allow purchase of houses or land by those who could prove 5 years of "good behaviour" under retirement extensions. This would cut down on speculators and save Thailand from becoming one big building site. After all, many retirees just want a home - not an investment and those with houses here would be buying goods locally, paying local sales taxes and have a vested interest in retaining the character of the area that attracted them in the first place.

Edited September 4, 2007 by VBF

[paulsmithson]

Last week I was at Bangkok immigration for my visa and was approached by a young university student who asked me to complete a questionair concerning my satisfaction level with the visa system for retirees.

I only hope that the authoritiers are reading the answers!

[skippybangkok]

Always been nice to me, but it would be good it "permanent residents" could feel a little more permanent i.e. being able to buy 1 Rai of land for a house, rather than being forced to live in Condo's or Rent a house. Given the rate of new approvals for PR, and the attrition rate, it would have a very small impact on land prices.

Other than that, happyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[VBF]

Last week I was at Bangkok immigration for my visa and was approached by a young university student who asked me to complete a questionair concerning my satisfaction level with the visa system for retirees.

I only hope that the authoritiers are reading the answers!

Would be great if they did, regrettably it may just have been a project related to the student's degree. We live in hope, however!

[meom]

Would suggest that they take a leaf out of the Malaysian and Philipines ideas on retirement and think out a more considered policy.

At the moment there is no retirement policy as far as I understand. There's only the option of a one year visa if you're over 50 and comply to the requirements. Foreigners might refer to that as a retirement visa and thinking it'll last forever but I don't think it was the intention of the Thai Government at the time when they started this to attract retirees from all over the world.

I guess at the moment they might actually regret this visa because basically they don't want a big influx of older people retiring here.