Phuket Immigration - Do They Know The Rules?

[simon43]

Now that one is required to extend visas at one's local immigration office, I need to go to Phuket Immigration to extend my existing ED visa, based on support of my Thai wife ('marriage visa'). I must do this because I want to get a WP to work in my Phuket hotel, and this is not allowed on a visa which was issued for ED (student) purposes.

I'm aware of the required documents and regulations, but is the immigration office aware of these?!

I intend to use the option of providing proof of an overseas income of greater than 40,000 baht per month. I already have the confirmation letter from the UK Embassy and a translation of this. (I cannot use the option for my wife to have an income greater than 40,000 baht per month because she has only just started paying herself a salary, and she therefore does not have 3 months of tax returns to proof this).

I have heard that Phuket Immigration doesn't interpret the visa requirements 'correctly', and asks for 400,000 baht in the bank etc. Can anyone who has extended an O visa comment on this? I don't want to waste my time collecting all the required documents if they are not willing to 'play ball'. I can if neccessary, extend my ED visa for another year and not get the WP, but that's not my preferred option.

Thanks

Simon

[LivinginKata]

Used to be 400,000 baht in the bank for farang married to Thai, but now it's 800,000 baht in bank (FOR PREVIOUS 3 MONTHS), or a joint (note JOINT) income of 45,000 baht/month. That's the way we do it and have to show tax paid receipts on at least 45,000 baht joint income. Quite a bit of paperwork (2 copies) involved.

Seems to be that any non-immigrant visa is Ok for work permit application. I had an O and got the WP Ok, so if ED is non-imm than you should be Ok.

[jumnien]

If you've got a Work Permit from the hotel why should they care what you've got in the bank?

[simon43]

LivinginKata - My understanding is that an ED visa is specifically not allowed to work, even if it's voluntary work!

Also, since my income comes from overseas, I assume that no tax papers are required.

Simon

[LivinginKata]

If you've got a Work Permit from the hotel why should they care what you've got in the bank?

The OP has not yet got a WP He's taking about visa extensions, and my details referred to a one year extensions (not need to go out of Thailand) based on having a non-imm visa or WP.

simon43 ... income from outside Thailand is not considered for visa purposes, other than pensions of 65,000 baht/month for retired visa. If you are under 50 then forget that idea. Money in a Thai bank does help when applying for non-imm visa in Asian country Thai embassies (outside Thailand).

I assumed you wanted to covert your ED to a WP position (base on a non-imm status), then apply for the one year extension. To apply for a WP you don't have to show any money, just an appropriate employment offer (position & salary level) from a Thai registered company. You do need to show money or income (in Thailand) for the one year extension based on married to a Thai, retired, or have WP.

Think we have crossed wire from the OP.

As for the head line 'do they know the rules'... depends which officer you talk to on any given day. Seems to me that there is a big difference in how individual officers interprete the rules.

[LivinLOS]

Used to be 400,000 baht in the bank for farang married to Thai, but now it's 800,000 baht in bank (FOR PREVIOUS 3 MONTHS), or a joint (note JOINT) income of 45,000 baht/month. That's the way we do it and have to show tax paid receipts on at least 45,000 baht joint income. Quite a bit of paperwork (2 copies) involved.

Seems to be that any non-immigrant visa is Ok for work permit application. I had an O and got the WP Ok, so if ED is non-imm than you should be Ok.

You sure on that.. Its 800k for a person retired.. I thought it was 400k for married to a thai (grandfathered) or 40k per month.

Thats what the visa forum says all the time anyway.

[LivinLOS]

simon43 ... income from outside Thailand is not considered for visa purposes, other than pensions of 65,000 baht/month for retired visa. If you are under 50 then forget that idea. Money in a Thai bank does help when applying for non-imm visa in Asian country Thai embassies (outside Thailand).

Again this goes againts the percieved wisdom of the posts in the visa forum..

There needs to be a combined income of 40k between the couple and that if your income comes from overseas you had to embassy verify it but that it could be used.. Many many people dont work in Thailand and dont have wives making 40k who all use this process..

Secondly money in the bank DOES help in many Asian Thai embassys.. Many will give a full year non imm O multiple entry if you show them the 400k in the bank and allow you the 15 months use for those that dont have the income element easily provable.

[simon43]

The British embassy has certified that I have a monthly income from outside Thailand of about 371,000 baht, (based on today's exchange rate), and my Bangkok Bank statements show that this total income comes into my bank account here every month. (The embassy has averaged out my last 3 income statements).

I have a meeting with my Phuket lawyers on Saturday, but they seemed unaware of the option to provide verification of income from outside Thailand. (Clearly, they don't read Thai visa....)

It's frustrating when both lawyers and immigration officers are ignorant of the written law, or interpret it in a perverse fashion..

I'll see how my meeting with the lawyers goes

Simon

[LivinginKata]

LOS, I can assure your it's a joint income of 45,000 baht/month as that's what we had to prove. The way it was stated to me was income in Thai baht earned in Thailand, although I conceed that maybe foreign income might be considered (by some officers).

Regarding the 800,000 baht in the bank, that does not seem to be a written rule. Many years ago we only had to show 200,000 baht to make the officer happy, then 400,000 baht, and now 800,000 baht. I really have no idea what the actual money rule states.

Sure money in a Thai bank DOES help, that's what I already said.

We long term visitors all know that rules are fluid & flexible. I personaly have had quite good experiences in the Phuket Immigration office over the last 11 years, well... other than the odd a...hole.

[LivinginKata]

Wow simon43...monthly income of 371,000 baht/month. Why do you need to work here in Thailand ? Wish I had that sort of private income. No way would I continue my now daily struggle running a business here in Thailand

[LivinLOS]

LOS, I can assure your it's a joint income of 45,000 baht/month as that's what we had to prove. The way it was stated to me was income in Thai baht earned in Thailand, although I conceed that maybe foreign income might be considered (by some officers).

Regarding the 800,000 baht in the bank, that does not seem to be a written rule. Many years ago we only had to show 200,000 baht to make the officer happy, then 400,000 baht, and now 800,000 baht. I really have no idea what the actual money rule states.

Sure money in a Thai bank DOES help, that's what I already said.

We long term visitors all know that rules are fluid & flexible. I personaly have had quite good experiences in the Phuket Immigration office over the last 11 years, well... other than the odd a...hole.

Well certainly there is no longer any REQUIREMENT to have 400k (and certainly not 800, thats never been a number associated with marriage requirements).. If you have the 40k (45 in your words but this forum says otherwise) then there should be no REQUIREMENT to have any savings, sure they may like it but they should not be able to deny you if you have not got it.

Sounds like confusing a retirement extension with a marriage one.. I know immigration pushes anyone over 50 to take the retirement option due to lower paperwork overhead.

But its a rare week when the rules dont change and a really rare weekwhen immigration doesnt interpret thier own rules assways.

[simon43]

Livinginkata - I like working Specifically, I want a WP for my hotel, just in case the immigration boys accuse me of working when I'm chatting to a customer...

Also - (more seriously), I want to apply for PR in about 50 years from now, and need to have a record of working legally and paying personal tax in Thailand.

Simon

[LivinginKata]

LOS... rodger that.

For years we quite happily applied for the married option, with suitable money in the bank, then one year I just happened to have quite a bit on money in my Thai bank, so the officer recommended the retired option which had minimal paperwork and an instant stamp (unlike the married option which has to go uo to Bangkok for approval). At that time I had a WP (clearly stamped in my passport) and subsequently found it was illegal to have a WP on a retired extension. Now I don't have a retired extension, just the married man extenison AND the WP.

I find that many folks don't understand the difference between visas and extensions. My last non-imm visa was issued in Brisbane some 8 years ago and since then I have extended on that old visa for some 8 years, and so long as I keep on extending (with re-entry permits) then I'll never need to apply for a Thai visa (outside Thailand) ever again.

BTW LOS, we must pass nearly every day if you live above Club Bamboo ??

[LivinginKata]

Livinginkata - I like working Specifically, I want a WP for my hotel, just in case the immigration boys accuse me of working when I'm chatting to a customer...

Simon

Ditto... exactly the same reason I have a WP. Really don't need it, but I prefer to be bomb proof legal in the event that a jealous person shops me to imm boys. Any anyway I don't mind paying my taxes to give something back to Thailand.

[Totster]

Moved to Visa section at OP's request

Totster

[jackr]

Wow simon43...monthly income of 371,000 baht/month. Why do you need to work here in Thailand ? Wish I had that sort of private income. No way would I continue my now daily struggle running a business here in Thailand

Don't believe everything you read on the internet. This site, like any other, has its share of charlatans

[simon43]

Jackr - that's about equivalent to 5,000 pounds sterling, which is hardly millionaire material is it? When I lived in the UK some 6 years ago my monthly salary was about 10,000 pounds and when I ran my own business it was about 100,000 pounds each month. Please don't assume that every foreigner in Thailand is poor as a church mouse

Simon

[Cyberstar]

LOS... rodger that.

For years we quite happily applied for the married option, with suitable money in the bank, then one year I just happened to have quite a bit on money in my Thai bank, so the officer recommended the retired option which had minimal paperwork and an instant stamp (unlike the married option which has to go uo to Bangkok for approval). At that time I had a WP (clearly stamped in my passport) and subsequently found it was illegal to have a WP on a retired extension. Now I don't have a retired extension, just the married man extenison AND the WP.

Which year was that, and which immigration office gave you that workpermit stamp in your passport?

[astral]

This thread is full of mis-information.

400K in the bank is no longer an option for extension based on marriage.

It never was 800K. That is the requirement for the retirement visa.

Work permits are in the form of a small blue book, like a passport

issued the by the Labour Dept.

WP are never stamped in the passport and certainly not by immigration!!

[Cyberstar]

Work permits are in the form of a small blue book, like a passport

issued the by the Labour Dept.

WP are never stamped in the passport and certainly not by immigration!!

Exactly, since LivinginKata obviously is lying about having/having had a WP in various threads - great chances that everything else is made up.

[LivinginKata]

Work permits are in the form of a small blue book, like a passport

issued the by the Labour Dept.

WP are never stamped in the passport and certainly not by immigration!!

Exactly, since LivinginKata obviously is lying about having/having had a WP in various threads - great chances that everything else is made up.

Don't half get some trouble makers on TV. I can assure you that when I first got my blue book work permit 6 years ago, the labour office (not immigration, never said it was immigration that made the stamp) placed a small stamp in the last page of my passport. The stamp is in Thai and I'm told that it verifies that I hold a Thai WP.

I could not give a 2 hoots what you think

Edited September 7, 2007 by LivinginKata

[sriracha john]

This thread is full of mis-information.

400K in the bank is no longer an option for extension based on marriage.

It never was 800K. That is the requirement for the retirement visa.

Work permits are in the form of a small blue book, like a passport

issued the by the Labour Dept.

WP are never stamped in the passport and certainly not by immigration!!

In total agreement... is it possible to put a big red slash through posts and marked VOID when theyy contain such erroneous visa/WP information?

The teeny-tiny small font "mod edit-this post contains errors" is, I fear, inadequate for someone skimming through the thread and ending up with wrong info.

..... or perhaps, just delete them if the red overlay is unworkable.

[simon43]

Livinginkata is correct. I had a WP about 4 years ago (from BKK for a ltd co that I had). When I got my WP, they also stamped on the last page of my passport to mention this.

Simon

[simon43]

Astral - I'm well aware of the rules re the 400k baht - but from what I have heard, Phuket Immigration is not! That's why I started this thread. I wanted some confirmation (or otherwise) from TV members who have been able to extend their 'marriage visa' based on an income of 40k baht per month - and not erronously informed by PI that they must have 400k baht in the bank, (which would only apply to those who are grandfathered...)

Simon

[TJ9]

...I wanted some confirmation (or otherwise) from TV members who have been able to extend their 'marriage visa' based on an income of 40k baht per month...

So far I've been issued 3 x 1-year extensions by Phuket Immigration based on being married and having an income of 40K / month, but my income is from inside Thailand and "proven" with tax reports etc. I don't know how well they would cope with income from outside Thailand, but they seem to know what they're doing. I haven't had any problems at all (yet).

[LivinginKata]

Interesting that Maestro has edited some of my posts. Would seem that the information I was given by a senior Phuket City Immigration officer in November 2006 was incorrect. The figures I stated (in good faith) were as quoted by that officer, at that time. Apologies to all TV members for any confusion.

Obviously I should have checked with other TV members. I now stand corrected, and I'll bring this to the attention of the officer when I go back for my next year extension in November 2007.

Thanks Simon for confirming there is a WP related stamp in a passport.

Edited September 7, 2007 by LivinginKata

[simon43]

Actually my OP was a retorical question - because I know that Phuket Immigration do not know the rules! (or choose to make up rules as they go along).

Today my (very competent) Thai lawyer asked PI the procedure to convert my ED visa to O, so that I can apply for a WP. They replied that I must have a WP already if I wanted an O visa! After explaining my situation to them, they then said that I must put 400,000 baht into my bank account AND my Thai wife must be able to provide tax returns for her salary as well AND I must provide proof of payment of tax and social welfare contributions in the UK where my overseas funds originated!

Complete and utter nonsense, and totally incorrect!! In fact, total b*llocks!

Happily, my lawyer is able to submit my application to a different immigration office, (which is apparently against the regulations as Sunbelt reported a few days ago). That office will convert my visa to O, provided that I put 400,000 baht into my bank account one time (proof of source of funds not required, plus proof of tax payment by my wife for 1 month only, plus a bribe to do all this ...)

I wish that immigration officers did not have the right to interprete the immigration/visa rules as they see fit. This is one reason why so many of us don't know whether we will be in Thailand next, week, next month or next year!

Simon

[LivinginKata]

I wish that immigration officers did not have the right to interprete the immigration/visa rules as they see fit. This is one reason why so many of us don't know whether we will be in Thailand next, week, next month or next year!

Simon

Roger that Simon,

I've used the Phuket office for 10+ years now with very variable experiences. The 'rules' are subject to the officer's mood of the day. Try nicely to point out the published rules, and watch out for the fireworks. Over the years I've tipped 500 baht to individual officers for good service. And I give nothing for bad/rude service and have to avoid that guy the next year.

What can we long stay visitors do ?? ... Nothing, as rock the boat = we will soon be expelled from Thailand.

[jackr]

Jackr - that's about equivalent to 5,000 pounds sterling, which is hardly millionaire material is it? When I lived in the UK some 6 years ago my monthly salary was about 10,000 pounds and when I ran my own business it was about 100,000 pounds each month. Please don't assume that every foreigner in Thailand is poor as a church mouse

Simon

Not assuming anything, simply stating fact.

I'm sure you didn't earn 100k a month through not responding to emails

OT. Apologies. Carry on...

[simon43]

I'm sure you didn't earn 100k a month through not responding to emails

[\quote]

?? Not sure what that means. I checked my PM inbox and have no messages....

Simon