Live Fish In A Basket At The Local Market

[Kf6vci]

At the market, I saw those oval shaped fish weighing maybe a pound. Then I noticed some were still alive!

Don't Buddhists try to minimise the pain they cause? Or do they think it will be better for their karma if they do nothing like actively kill the fish? ** Isn't there a way to slaughter these fish, or do the customers demand this proof of "freshness"? And I thought they would die quickly - not sure how long they have been in the basket in the direct sun light, but it might have been over an hour

[Maigo6]

At the market, I saw those oval shaped fish weighing maybe a pound. Then I noticed some were still alive!

Don't Buddhists try to minimise the pain they cause? Or do they think it will be better for their karma if they do nothing like actively kill the fish? ** Isn't there a way to slaughter these fish, or do the customers demand this proof of "freshness"? And I thought they would die quickly - not sure how long they have been in the basket in the direct sun light, but it might have been over an hour

Yeah, Ole' Captain Birdseye would have had them slaughtered, gutted, packaged and Frozen within the hour, and fat little kids would have been wolfing them down as fish fingers along with their chips and beans.

As awful as it may seem to you to actually see livestock before it's eaten, I suggest you visit a slaughterhouse, or Abattoir as people like to call it, cos it don't sound too much like Slaughterhouse.

It really is quite disturbing.

[meemiathai]

At the market, I saw those oval shaped fish weighing maybe a pound. Then I noticed some were still alive!

Don't Buddhists try to minimise the pain they cause? Or do they think it will be better for their karma if they do nothing like actively kill the fish? ** Isn't there a way to slaughter these fish, or do the customers demand this proof of "freshness"? And I thought they would die quickly - not sure how long they have been in the basket in the direct sun light, but it might have been over an hour

Buddhism is one thing. People calling themselves followers of Buddhism is another. I guess.

If every thai practises exactly what Buddhism preaches, thailand will not be here already?

[meemiathai]

Relax you can't change the world. There is a reason for everything.

[uptou]

i once stayed in a guest house near a pig slaughter house.i didnt realise that the squeals were anything more than the pigs feeding until i accidently took a walk past the place.i believe they hit the pig on the head with a big stick to stun it first,& then,well the obvious.i decided to leave the guest house,did the right thing & i didnt eat pork for awile,but back on it now.out of sight out of mind.

[meemiathai]

I think the point of the OP was the unnecessary sufferings.

And yes most people don't give a flying arse!

[uptou]

this actually disturbed me to the point i couldnt sleep when hearing it.i suppose i was making a point about the hypocrisy of us superior humans.

[ashacat]

There is a reason for everything.

I don't understand this rational. The "reason" is because the people involved choose to treat the animals in a cruel manner(?!!)

[ColPyat]

At the market, I saw those oval shaped fish weighing maybe a pound. Then I noticed some were still alive!

Don't Buddhists try to minimise the pain they cause? Or do they think it will be better for their karma if they do nothing like actively kill the fish? ** Isn't there a way to slaughter these fish, or do the customers demand this proof of "freshness"? And I thought they would die quickly - not sure how long they have been in the basket in the direct sun light, but it might have been over an hour

I actually would not advice to buy dead raw fish in the markets here.

If too old, which often happens you might get some very nasty food poisoning.

Go to any fish market also in places like Italy, and you will see the same.

[Heng]

Don't Buddhists try to minimise the pain they cause? Or do they think it will be better for their karma if they do nothing like actively kill the fish?

Maybe the fish vendor was a Christian or a Jew? Did you check his/her faith id card?

[uptou]

the most shocking thing ive seen in the market is live skinned frogs. put bhuddism next to that.

i believe you can tell if a fish is fresh by it not smelling too fishy & a lack of sunken eyes.

[Maigo6]

the most shocking thing ive seen in the market is live skinned frogs. put bhuddism next to that.

i believe you can tell if a fish is fresh by it not smelling too fishy & a lack of sunken eyes.

I was in a Market in Ubon and I bought a Bucket of baby frogs, I was taking them to a big resevoir to let them go, the people in the market thought I was nuts buying frogs with no intention of eating them.

Only 30 Baht per Bucket.

Edited September 5, 2007 by Maigo6

[LivinLOS]

the most shocking thing ive seen in the market is live skinned frogs. put bhuddism next to that.

i believe you can tell if a fish is fresh by it not smelling too fishy & a lack of sunken eyes.

I was going to post the same but you beat me..

There was a guy skinning them alive with a fixed blade.. Just slit them down the back and kind of peeled them alive.. Felt bad about not making a scene to be honest, I usually do when I see westerners in fur coats etc.

[KhaoNiaw]

My wife won't buy fish that are already dead. Even if she brings them back from upcountry, they'll be transported in such a way that they're still alive and can be gutted on arrival.

I always find it a bit bizarre when people question "Don't Buddhists...?" this or that. Ignoring the fact that there are even older influences on Thai society than Buddhism, people have to live in the real world and unless you expect them all to take the vows, the practicalities of life simply mean that some things have to give.

[meemiathai]

There is a reason for everything.

I don't understand this rational. The "reason" is because the people involved choose to treat the animals in a cruel manner(?!!)

The post above mine got deleted and that's why you won't understand what I was talking about.

[meemiathai]

the most shocking thing ive seen in the market is live skinned frogs. put bhuddism next to that.

i believe you can tell if a fish is fresh by it not smelling too fishy & a lack of sunken eyes.

I was going to post the same but you beat me..

There was a guy skinning them alive with a fixed blade.. Just slit them down the back and kind of peeled them alive.. Felt bad about not making a scene to be honest, I usually do when I see westerners in fur coats etc.

I am used to the frog thing growing up here in HK.

[uptou]

My wife won't buy fish that are already dead. Even if she brings them back from upcountry, they'll be transported in such a way that they're still alive and can be gutted on arrival.

I always find it a bit bizarre when people question "Don't Buddhists...?" this or that. Ignoring the fact that there are even older influences on Thai society than Buddhism, people have to live in the real world and unless you expect them all to take the vows, the practicalities of life simply mean that some things have to give.

i still am a little disturbed with a skinned frog that is still croaking & twitching.

[Maigo6]

Like I say, if you went to a Slaughterhouse and saw what went on, you would probably be put off meat for life.

When us westerners go to a Supermarket we are buying meat that has been processed already, it's laid out on nice little trays or pre packed.

We call cow..Beef

We call Pig..... Pork.

And baby sheep...Lamb.

We use these names cos if we actually called the meat by what animal it came from, it may not seem so appetising.

"Oh, I'll have a Pig Pie please".

"Oh, I'd love a nice bit of Cow and chips".

" For Sunday Dinner I'm gonna have slaughtered baby sheep with mint sauce ".

Then of course we have Veal, or to put it bluntly, Baby cows that are slaughtered when only a few days old.

Edited September 5, 2007 by Maigo6

[TAWP]

Maigo6>> You are wrong, but that is besides the point.

Killing an animal as slow as possible isn't the aim in a normal factory, the opposite.

What you are talking about is more related to halal and kosher-slaughter, due to a small mixup in their 'science' from 1400 and 2500 years ago respectivly.

[chownah]

Never seen a skinned frog....why do they skin them...you can eat the skin and if you don't want to eat it it peels off really easy when cooked I think although I just eat it.

Thais don't seem to worry too much about needless suffering of small animals...I complain to my wife quite often about why she is leaving some crabs in a bucket in the sun for days at a time...to her its just fishing bait.

[Maigo6]

Maigo6>> You are wrong, but that is besides the point.

Killing an animal as slow as possible isn't the aim in a normal factory, the opposite.

That's true, mass slaughter needs to be fast and efficient.

I don't see where I said death in a Slaughterhouse was slow..........anyway, it's just so horrible for those that have never seen it before, I know it was for me when I saw it.

Put me off Sausages for 2 days...............

[kankaroo]

Yeah I never like seeing the live fish thing either, but here is a crazy idea I have............Why not actually keep the fish in more then 1 inch of water when they are in a bucket. The customer will see that they are still swimming about, therefore fresh.

I don't understand why you always see half a dozen semi-live catfish or something flopping over each other fighting over a couple of inches of water ?? I mean why not just let them breath a bit before they go for the chop ?

The looks I get at the Tesco /Big C etc counter when I request my live fish to be killed before I take it home with the rest of my shopping is unreal. You could tell it wasn't a normal request as the guy didn't have a clue on how to kill it by a simple whack on the head with a blunt instrument - took him over 3 attempts !

Something about sitting in a taxi with your shopping bags wriggling about seems just plain wrong to me.

But you do get used to it (turning a blind eye so to speak) after a while.

But live skinned frogs.......... Just plain sadism

Or maybe they were corrupt politicians in a previous life ?

[sceadugenga]

Never seen a skinned frog....why do they skin them...you can eat the skin and if you don't want to eat it it peels off really easy when cooked I think although I just eat it.

Thais don't seem to worry too much about needless suffering of small animals...I complain to my wife quite often about why she is leaving some crabs in a bucket in the sun for days at a time...to her its just fishing bait.

You go mad if you worry too much about that Chownah, my Mrs goes fishing three or four times a week and sometimes brings back these little spiny things you can't eat and just leaves them in a bucket of water. I keep changing the water and sneak them down to the klong when she's forgotten about them.

[Maigo6]

lol.......this thread has got me thinking.

Years ago , when I first came to Thailand, 1990, some girl I knew had been to the market and bought some catfish, the catfish were still alive when she got back to the estate we were living on, I was slightly drunk, and when she went into the house, I took the plastic bag with the fish in opened it up and let the fish go in the swimming pool.

That created a stir................poor fawkers still got rounded up and whacked the same day though.

[pumpuiman]

My wife's family won't kill anything....no bugs, spiders....anything. But her father raises chickens. He brings them to "the man who kills chickens" at the market, before bringing them home to eat.......go figure.

[Neeranam]

I was a strict vegetarian when I came to live here. It didn't take long before I started eating fish then chicken. Still would never eat a pig, sheep or cow.

It's alright to eat fish cause they don't have any feelings, as someone said.

[cm das]

I've heard before that many Thais & other Asians consider fish a significantly lower form of life than anything on land. I even remember reading in one Buddhist scheme of reincarnation (can't remember which school of Buddhism) that all sea creatures are lower in the hierarchy than insects.

On a different angle, if you're going to eat meat, I think it's more honest & aware (and so in a sense maybe more Buddhist?) to kill the animal yourself. When you buy a dead piece of meat, it's easy to ignore the violence & suffering that led up to its appearance in your shopping basket or on your plate. When you kill the creature yourself, you are more likely to have an awareness of this suffering. As for skinning frogs alive, I guess that's a different story.

[pumpuiman]

I was a strict vegetarian when I came to live here. It didn't take long before I started eating fish then chicken. Still would never eat a pig, sheep or cow.

It's alright to eat fish cause they don't have any feelings, as someone said.

I used to gaff sand sharks occasionally when deep sea fishing......they would scream, a heart piercing soulful scream.

Fish feel.

[Maigo6]

I used to gaff sand sharks occasionally when deep sea fishing......they would scream, a heart piercing soulful scream.

Fish feel.

I hope you don't come back as a small fish in the afterlife...................................

[Cuban]

We use these names cos if we actually called the meat by what animal it came from, it may not seem so appetising.

Not so, the reason is one of class/status. In the history of the English language during the period called the dark ages, the peoples that worked the land and tended animals etc. used a language based on Olde English and Saxon from which come the names of the animals; cow, pig, sheep.

The wealthy land owners were Norman (French in origin) so used the Norman words for the animals when presented on the plate for eatting was simply their word for the animal in French Boeuf, Porc, Mouton.

As the wealthy could affort to eat the animals the French names stuck for the meat when it was eaten and the Anglo-Saxon for the meat when still wrapped in fur on the hoof.

The fish (or frogs) will be eaten either way, whether you buy and release them or renounce eating all animal based foods (no cheeses or products containing eggs). So the question is simply one of seeing the food in it's raw state before McD's grill it for you, do you consider that fish taken from the sea are treated in a more humane fashion before being gutted? Mostly they suffercate in the net or on the deck before being gutted, at least in Thai markets they are dispatched with a blow by a knife first - makes them easier to gut. BTW if Thai markets trouble you I suggest you avoid HK and Chinese markets, you can see the filet is really fresh even after it is removed from the rest of the fish's body.

Will you protest against Kosher and Halal foods, or don't you know how that is prepared ?

Welcome to our planet - I hope you enoy your stay.