Kebobs/shwarma/gyros Questions

[JR Texas]

One of my favorite dishes is a simple gyros with real Greek bread (can't find it in Thailand). But I did find a shwarma (sp?) in Bangkok and there are lots of different kebob places all over. I would like to know several things (can't Google them and get good answers) from some person that knows how to make them.

1) How do you keep the meat fresh? They are apparently not fully cooked. Then they are cooked outside all day and night until finished? Seems to me the outside is cooked but the inside will still be raw (breeding bacteria). But if not finished, what do you do with them....put them in a refrigerator?

Main concern here is how to maintain freshness and not make people sick.

2) How do you make beef shwarma? What meat is used?

3) Any tips/advice?

Thanks.

[Naam]

How do you make beef shwarma? What meat is used?

to the best of my knowledge it's beef meat what is used

[Ulysses G.]

From what I was told, you must have enough customers to finish all of the meat pretty quickly or it will go bad. I've noticed that the shwarma shops in Chiang Mai generally start out with a much smaller piece of meat than shops in Bangkok.

[JR Texas]

From what I was told, you must have enough customers to finish all of the meat pretty quickly or it will go bad. I've noticed that the shwarma shops in Chiang Mai generally start out with a much smaller piece of meat than shops in Bangkok.

Thanks for the posts.........I knew that the schwarma was beef. I do not know which cut. About using it up quickly.......are you intimating that you must make the "beef log" anew each day and use it all up on the same day.........no wrapping up what is not used and putting it in cold storage?

Guess the same for chicken, pork and lamb. That is a lot of work! Maybe you can make the "log" and then sell most of it and what has not been sold can then be cooked then be sliced up and mixed in with the new stuff for the next day or frozen.......not thrown away.

Of course, the idea of making smaller logs is a great one (and smart). Test the market with small logs and expand the size when demand permits.

I still wish one person would make authentic Greek gyros with the magnificent and wonderful and outstanding Greek bread......yuuummmmmm!

If any person has a recipe for gyros, schwarma, or kebob, please post it. Wonder if Thais ever eat them......doubt it.

[Dr. Burrito]

From what I was told, you must have enough customers to finish all of the meat pretty quickly or it will go bad. I've noticed that the shwarma shops in Chiang Mai generally start out with a much smaller piece of meat than shops in Bangkok.

Thanks for the posts.........I knew that the schwarma was beef. I do not know which cut. About using it up quickly.......are you intimating that you must make the "beef log" anew each day and use it all up on the same day.........no wrapping up what is not used and putting it in cold storage?

Guess the same for chicken, pork and lamb. That is a lot of work! Maybe you can make the "log" and then sell most of it and what has not been sold can then be cooked then be sliced up and mixed in with the new stuff for the next day or frozen.......not thrown away.

Of course, the idea of making smaller logs is a great one (and smart). Test the market with small logs and expand the size when demand permits.

I still wish one person would make authentic Greek gyros with the magnificent and wonderful and outstanding Greek bread......yuuummmmmm!

If any person has a recipe for gyros, schwarma, or kebob, please post it. Wonder if Thais ever eat them......doubt it.

I would think for the beef you would almost be open to any but you like, though I would reckon using something with some good fat content would give you an overall juicier result if calories and dieting were not an issue.

have the butcher shop cut it into whatever size steaks you like, marinate it and then sort it out for the cooker.

Sounds lovely in fact

Dr. B

[tutsiwarrior]

from my experience working in the Gulf (Abu Dhabi, Doha, Bahrain, Jeddah) dedicated shwarma chefs are in high demand...just look at the jobs adverts in local newspapers...shwarma is not usually served until after 5 pm and there is considerable preparation involved...the chef is usually involved in all stages of preparation, cooking, etc...near where I lived in Manama there were 6-7 stalls within 5 minutes walking distance...the best chefs were grumpy, sweaty old men and when he served you he expected you to not patronise anyone else...lots of competition...

it ain't just the meat preparation...other ingredients go into the sandwich...you can tell when the dude has skimped on the tahina in the sauce and when the bread is not absolutely fresh(usually baked early morning and afternoon about 3-4ish...if fresh there is still condensation in the package)...that's all it takes to send you down the road to the next stall...

btw, I've never had a beef shwarma; there is usually only 'meat' and chicken...the meat is always mutton...the indian and pakistani chefs have a problem with handling beef...

[Ulysses G.]

I still wish one person would make authentic Greek gyros with the magnificent and wonderful and outstanding Greek bread......yuuummmmmm!

We had one in Chiang Mai, but his prices were too high for the market in Chiang Mai, so he limped along for a year and then fled back to Greece with the police right behind him! Probably should have tried to lower his prices a little.

[JR Texas]

from my experience working in the Gulf (Abu Dhabi, Doha, Bahrain, Jeddah) dedicated shwarma chefs are in high demand...just look at the jobs adverts in local newspapers...shwarma is not usually served until after 5 pm and there is considerable preparation involved...the chef is usually involved in all stages of preparation, cooking, etc...near where I lived in Manama there were 6-7 stalls within 5 minutes walking distance...the best chefs were grumpy, sweaty old men and when he served you he expected you to not patronise anyone else...lots of competition...

it ain't just the meat preparation...other ingredients go into the sandwich...you can tell when the dude has skimped on the tahina in the sauce and when the bread is not absolutely fresh(usually baked early morning and afternoon about 3-4ish...if fresh there is still condensation in the package)...that's all it takes to send you down the road to the next stall...

btw, I've never had a beef shwarma; there is usually only 'meat' and chicken...the meat is always mutton...the indian and pakistani chefs have a problem with handling beef...

Guess you ate a lot of pork shwarma in "the Gulf." Ha ha ha.

Seriously, I was at a place off of Sukhumvit (Soi 2 I think) where lots of these places are located....near Bumrungrad Hospital. I asked the "chef" what meat it was and he said "beef." Maybe he meant lamb, but it tasted like beef to me. It was delicious and reminded me a little of a gyros.

Many years ago I watched a guy make them in Pattaya, across from the VC Hotel, right on the corner. He told me he lived and worked in Saudia Arabia. I started mentally timing him and calculated his potential income........it was large in comparison to most jobs in the area. He was and continues to do good business. It looked like a clever operation with simple logistics.

Of course, in his wake people started doing it all over the place. Thanks for the input.

[whimsy]

Hi, we run a kebab and burger shop in Chiang Mai. We take great care to ensure our food is safe for customers to eat. Basically you must cook the meat on the kebab to 75C right through to the centre to kill any bacteria already present and then maintain it at at least 60C to prevent food poisoning bacteria from growing. If you plan to keep any cooked meat for the next day then you must chill it to below 5C right through as quickly as possible. Within 4 hours is the rule of thumb.

As UG suggested, we only cook smallish logs at a time so that we can cook it and sell it quickly.

The pdf file below is from the Victorian Government in Australia and covers issues to do with food safety for kebab shops. You may find it and other information on their site useful. http://www.health.vic.gov.au/foodsafety/do...supp_kebabs.pdf

[tutsiwarrior]

Hi, we run a kebab and burger shop in Chiang Mai. We take great care to ensure our food is safe for customers to eat. Basically you must cook the meat on the kebab to 75C right through to the centre to kill any bacteria already present and then maintain it at at least 60C to prevent food poisoning bacteria from growing. If you plan to keep any cooked meat for the next day then you must chill it to below 5C right through as quickly as possible. Within 4 hours is the rule of thumb.

As UG suggested, we only cook smallish logs at a time so that we can cook it and sell it quickly.

The pdf file below is from the Victorian Government in Australia and covers issues to do with food safety for kebab shops. You may find it and other information on their site useful. http://www.health.vic.gov.au/foodsafety/do...supp_kebabs.pdf

I note that you have a Bob's Big Boy atavar...I remember bein' drunk in a car fulla rednecks in Nashville, TN and when the waitress asked what we would like to order sumone shouted 'Virgil ober ther wants a Big Boy...' ...punches were thrown and there was broken glass...later I was all bedroom eyes with a girlfriend in CA and murmurred...'anyone ever tell you that you got eyes like Big Boy?...' fortunately she exploded with laughter...things coulda been worse...

Edited September 9, 2007 by tutsiwarrior

[whimsy]

I note that you have a Bob's Big Boy atavar...

LOL. You got it! Yes I only changed it just the other day. After the Thai Visa party in Chiang Mai, my 'true identity' has been revealed so I thought I may as well change my avatar to something more appropriate.

Edited September 9, 2007 by whimsy

[calibanjr.]

from my experience working in the Gulf (Abu Dhabi, Doha, Bahrain, Jeddah) dedicated shwarma chefs are in high demand...just look at the jobs adverts in local newspapers...shwarma is not usually served until after 5 pm and there is considerable preparation involved...the chef is usually involved in all stages of preparation, cooking, etc...near where I lived in Manama there were 6-7 stalls within 5 minutes walking distance...the best chefs were grumpy, sweaty old men and when he served you he expected you to not patronise anyone else...lots of competition...

it ain't just the meat preparation...other ingredients go into the sandwich...you can tell when the dude has skimped on the tahina in the sauce and when the bread is not absolutely fresh(usually baked early morning and afternoon about 3-4ish...if fresh there is still condensation in the package)...that's all it takes to send you down the road to the next stall...

btw, I've never had a beef shwarma; there is usually only 'meat' and chicken...the meat is always mutton...the indian and pakistani chefs have a problem with handling beef...

Guess you ate a lot of pork shwarma in "the Gulf." Ha ha ha.

Seriously, I was at a place off of Sukhumvit (Soi 2 I think) where lots of these places are located....near Bumrungrad Hospital. I asked the "chef" what meat it was and he said "beef." Maybe he meant lamb, but it tasted like beef to me. It was delicious and reminded me a little of a gyros.

Many years ago I watched a guy make them in Pattaya, across from the VC Hotel, right on the corner. He told me he lived and worked in Saudia Arabia. I started mentally timing him and calculated his potential income........it was large in comparison to most jobs in the area. He was and continues to do good business. It looked like a clever operation with simple logistics.

Of course, in his wake people started doing it all over the place. Thanks for the input.

Close enough, Soi 3 (Soi Nana Nua). I used to live on Soi 1, behind Bumrungrad (the only hospital I've ever seen with a McDonalds inside, let alone a Starbucks, AuBonPain, and a ###### good Sushi restaurant). Between having my Western fatty foods, Soi 3 Shwarma, and the cart food on Soi 1, that's the one major thing I miss about moving north from Bangkok.

[JR Texas]

I note that you have a Bob's Big Boy atavar...

LOL. You got it! Yes I only changed it just the other day. After the Thai Visa party in Chiang Mai, my 'true identity' has been revealed so I thought I may as well change my avatar to something more appropriate.

I used to eat at Big Boy or Kips Big Boy (can't remember) when I was a kid in Dallas, Texas. Wonderful hamburgers with a special sauce that was very, very close but better than McDonald's Big Mac (wonder if somebody wearing a golden arch "borrowed" Big Boy's special sauce?).

I miss the place.........wonder what happened to it. Don't think they are still in business.

Thanks Calibangjr for the Soi 3 info. Next time I go to Bangkok I will be sure to eat at that shawarma place again.

[Ulysses G.]

I note that you have a Bob's Big Boy atavar...I remember bein' drunk in a car fulla rednecks in Nashville, TN and when the waitress asked what we would like to order sumone shouted 'Virgil ober ther wants a Big Boy...' ...punches were thrown and there was broken glass...later I was all bedroom eyes with a girlfriend in CA and murmurred...'anyone ever tell you that you got eyes like Big Boy?...' fortunately she exploded with laughter...things coulda been worse...

In Virginia, it was called "Shoney's Big Boy". I'm starting to wonder how many variations there were on the Big Boy name?

[whimsy]

In Virginia, it was called "Shoney's Big Boy". I'm starting to wonder how many variations there were on the Big Boy name?

According to Wikipedia there were at least 21 variations on the name as franchisees. Looks like Shoney's was one of the bigger ones.

[Ulysses G.]

Thanks.

That's something I started wondering about when "Bobs" Big Boy came to Thailand for a short time.

[jefro]

from my experience working in the Gulf (Abu Dhabi, Doha, Bahrain, Jeddah) dedicated shwarma chefs are in high demand...just look at the jobs adverts in local newspapers...shwarma is not usually served until after 5 pm and there is considerable preparation involved...the chef is usually involved in all stages of preparation, cooking, etc...near where I lived in Manama there were 6-7 stalls within 5 minutes walking distance...the best chefs were grumpy, sweaty old men and when he served you he expected you to not patronise anyone else...lots of competition...

it ain't just the meat preparation...other ingredients go into the sandwich...you can tell when the dude has skimped on the tahina in the sauce and when the bread is not absolutely fresh(usually baked early morning and afternoon about 3-4ish...if fresh there is still condensation in the package)...that's all it takes to send you down the road to the next stall...

btw, I've never had a beef shwarma; there is usually only 'meat' and chicken...the meat is always mutton...the indian and pakistani chefs have a problem with handling beef...

Guess you ate a lot of pork shwarma in "the Gulf." Ha ha ha.

Seriously, I was at a place off of Sukhumvit (Soi 2 I think) where lots of these places are located....near Bumrungrad Hospital. I asked the "chef" what meat it was and he said "beef." Maybe he meant lamb, but it tasted like beef to me. It was delicious and reminded me a little of a gyros.

Many years ago I watched a guy make them in Pattaya, across from the VC Hotel, right on the corner. He told me he lived and worked in Saudia Arabia. I started mentally timing him and calculated his potential income........it was large in comparison to most jobs in the area. He was and continues to do good business. It looked like a clever operation with simple logistics.

Of course, in his wake people started doing it all over the place. Thanks for the input.

Close enough, Soi 3 (Soi Nana Nua). I used to live on Soi 1, behind Bumrungrad (the only hospital I've ever seen with a McDonalds inside, let alone a Starbucks, AuBonPain, and a ###### good Sushi restaurant). Between having my Western fatty foods, Soi 3 Shwarma, and the cart food on Soi 1, that's the one major thing I miss about moving north from Bangkok.

Kosair Children's Hospital In Louisville KY has a McDonald's inside

[JR Texas]

Hi, we run a kebab and burger shop in Chiang Mai. We take great care to ensure our food is safe for customers to eat. Basically you must cook the meat on the kebab to 75C right through to the centre to kill any bacteria already present and then maintain it at at least 60C to prevent food poisoning bacteria from growing. If you plan to keep any cooked meat for the next day then you must chill it to below 5C right through as quickly as possible. Within 4 hours is the rule of thumb.

As UG suggested, we only cook smallish logs at a time so that we can cook it and sell it quickly.

The pdf file below is from the Victorian Government in Australia and covers issues to do with food safety for kebab shops. You may find it and other information on their site useful. http://www.health.vic.gov.au/foodsafety/do...supp_kebabs.pdf

Ah........it makes sense now. Thanks very much! You make the log and then cook it immediately to kill the bacteria. I would think that at that point you could wrap it up and put it in the freezer for later or the fridge. You could make lots of small logs to make the logistics simple (on hand when you need them). If I had several kiosks doing this, I would make the bread fresh right in front of the customer...cook it on a hot plate. BUT, maybe that is not done because of the time it takes to do it. I like real bread.........what you normally get in Thailand is some stale pita. I am sure your bread is great. Thanks again.

[raro]

I read this thread with delight, any decent attempt to a greek gyros or a middle-east Shwarma is highly appreciated!

In Pattaya we have now lots of places around, but their results can qualify best as "nice try". Imagine, they put ketchup on the shwarma! If you ask for the cacik (that is the turkish or kurdish variety) or zaziki (which would be greek) blank stares are the answer. Harissa should be a main ingredient as well. Never seen it at any of the street shops in Pattaya.

NB: The food in the restaurants behind the Blues Factory serve much better quality, but I'm looking for a snack shop!

[tutsiwarrior]

I note that you have a Bob's Big Boy atavar...I remember bein' drunk in a car fulla rednecks in Nashville, TN and when the waitress asked what we would like to order sumone shouted 'Virgil ober ther wants a Big Boy...' ...punches were thrown and there was broken glass...later I was all bedroom eyes with a girlfriend in CA and murmurred...'anyone ever tell you that you got eyes like Big Boy?...' fortunately she exploded with laughter...things coulda been worse...

In Virginia, it was called "Shoney's Big Boy". I'm starting to wonder how many variations there were on the Big Boy name?

yeah...on the east coast it's called Shoney's...we had one of the originals in Pasadena next to the community college (which earlier was Pasadena High School; a magnificent example of WPA architecture along with the main post office, main library and the city hall). Big Boy was part of childhood like Boy Scouts, Indian Guides and Little League... great milk shakes as well as burgers...

Edited September 11, 2007 by tutsiwarrior

[Ulysses G.]

I loved the Big Boy comics, the first double burger, and the brownie with ice cream, hot fudge and brownie.

[Zeid]

mostly the original shawerma is not made of high grade meat( like taco bell grade meat)

mostly fatty meats lamb, or lamb leftover with frzoen baby veal,(the lamb for taste and smell, veal fo volume and colour) it is soaked in vinger and spices.

the way the shawerma is made because of its small peaces is usually compressed there are machines that compress but the same time there are shops that get very imaginative.

the shawerma chef as you call them is the guy who can compress them. the slices should be thin as they are well cooked.

just rcently in jordan the chicken shawerma places where put on hold, due to many poisening, the new rules state that the chicken shawerma should not be larger than 40cm in diameter.

as for beef you will nto belive that but i will post a picture soon showing how big they get, with no adverse affect on health.

[Zeid]

Gyros much cleaner than shawerma.

best place was konig gyors (if i remember correctly) in stuttgart the end of konigstrasse on the left.

[Tony Clifton]

I'll try and bake some pita bread today, see what happens.

[tutsiwarrior]

I'll try and bake some pita bread today, see what happens.

wellll???

[Tim207]

Guess you ate a lot of pork shwarma in "the Gulf." Ha ha ha.

Seriously, I was at a place off of Sukhumvit (Soi 2 I think) where lots of these places are located....near Bumrungrad Hospital. I asked the "chef" what meat it was and he said "beef." Maybe he meant lamb, but it tasted like beef to me. It was delicious and reminded me a little of a gyros.

As someone else mentioned, that is soi 3. Walking from Sukhmvit, I highly recomend the second little stall. The employees are not very polite but the food is well worth it. They have both beef and chicken. I have been known to eat there daily when in Bangkok to satisfy my beef cravings.

[Tony Clifton]

I'll try and bake some pita bread today, see what happens.

wellll???

Not yet, this evening.

Got the tzaziki and hommus?

[Tony Clifton]

Guess you ate a lot of pork shwarma in "the Gulf." Ha ha ha.

Seriously, I was at a place off of Sukhumvit (Soi 2 I think) where lots of these places are located....near Bumrungrad Hospital. I asked the "chef" what meat it was and he said "beef." Maybe he meant lamb, but it tasted like beef to me. It was delicious and reminded me a little of a gyros.

As someone else mentioned, that is soi 3. Walking from Sukhmvit, I highly recomend the second little stall. The employees are not very polite but the food is well worth it. They have both beef and chicken. I have been known to eat there daily when in Bangkok to satisfy my beef cravings.

Sounds like Seinfeld's Soup Nazi.

[tutsiwarrior]

I'll try and bake some pita bread today, see what happens.

wellll???

Not yet, this evening.

Got the tzaziki and hommus?

headn' back to Saudi tonight...maybe they got sum hummous on the plane...

(a Forum quiz...how many ways are there to spell the name of a famous, middle eastern chick pea purree?... )

Edited September 12, 2007 by tutsiwarrior

[Tony Clifton]

I'll try and bake some pita bread today, see what happens.

wellll???

Not yet, this evening.

Got the tzaziki and hommus?

headn' back to Saudi tonight...maybe they got sum hummous on the plane...

(a Forum quiz...how many ways are there to spell the name of a famous, middle eastern chick pea purree?... )

Humus admit I have no idea.

Tried baking a batch tonight. Salty! My spice pots all look the same and I added more salt to the recipe instead of sugar.

The texture was very close to pita bread I used to buy at the Lebanese bakery but the bread only bubbled in some spots instead of making one big pouch. Probably the excess salt that messed it up. I cooked at 400 on an upside down cookie sheet.

Try another batch tomorrow.

In the meantime... "Here soi dog soi dog soi dog"