Flight OG269: At Least 88 Bodies Found At Phuket Airport Crash Site

[farang prince]

Has a list of the dead been released yet? If so, would Thai Visa be so kind as to reprint it when it becomes available? Many thanks.

[LaoPo]

MD-80 does not have frequent crash history

The US-made McDonnell Douglas MD-80 series aircraft like the one that crashed in Phuket on Sunday does not have a poor safety record or a history of frequent crashes. Since the mid-size, medium-range airliner, with the distinctive feature of having two rear fuselage-mounted turbofan engines, small wings and a T-tail, was introduced in 1980s, it has been involved only four accidents. Three, including Sunday's One-Two-Go tragedy, involved fatalities.

The three previous incidents were:

On Dec 27, 1991, SAS flight 751, an MD-81 aircraft, OY-KHO ''Dana Viking'' crash-landed in Gottrra, Sweden.

In the initial climb, both engines ingested ice breaking loose from the wings, which had not been properly de-iced before departure. Both engines were destroyed, leaving the aircraft with no propulsion. The aircraft landed in a field and broke into three parts. No fire broke out and all aboard the plane survived.

On Jan 31, 2000, Alaska Airlines Flight 261, an MD-83 aircraft, crashed in the Pacific Ocean, about 4.3km north of Anacapa Island, California, due to the inadequate maintenance of the jackscrew assembly.

The two pilots, three cabin crew, and 83 passengers on board were killed, and the airplane was destroyed.

On Oct 8, 2001, SAS flight SK686, an MD-87 aircraft, SE-DMA, collided with a small Cessna jet during take-off at Linate Airport, Milan, Italy.

The Linate Airport disaster left 114 people dead. It has been established that the cause of the accident was a misunderstanding between air traffic controllers and the Cessna jet, and that the SAS crew had no role in causing the accident. Another factor was the ground movement radar not being in operation at the time of the accident.

Article continues here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/18Sep2007_news11.php

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

Financial compensation guaranteed for all victims

One-Two-Go Airlines and the Civil Aviation Department have guaranteed financial compensation for all victims of Sunday's plane crash. A notice in Thai and English posted on the budget airline's website yesterday expressed regret for the accident and said it would ''definitely provide support and take full responsibility'' for all injured and dead passengers.

The airline's chief executive officer and founder Udom Tantiprasongchai also promised the victims' relatives the company would meet all expenses when he visited Phuket immediately after the tragedy.

Civil Aviation chief Chaisak Angkhasuwan said the airline must pay the relatives of each dead victim 100,000 baht for funeral expenses as soon as possible.

The airline's insurance company would have to cover the medical expenses of the survivors, Mr Chaisak said.

The airline carries more than US$300 million (10.2 billion baht) in insurance cover with UK based-underwriter Penloyd. The insurance covers damage to the aircraft, passengers and third parties, Mr Chaisak said.

Chantra Purnriksha, secretary-general of the Office of the Insurance Commission, said the airline had two accident insurance policies with Penloyd.

In addition to the $300-million insurance covering passengers for death, medical expenses and transport after an accident, it had another policy, worth US$5 million, covering damage on the aircraft and its passengers.

Article continues here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/18Sep2007_news12.php

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

Authorities yet to identify 13 bodies

DNA matching needed for charred bodies

Authorities have not yet identified 13 out of 89 people killed in Sunday's airliner crash in Phuket, saying those charred bodies must be identified through DNA matching. Nitinai Sorasongkhram, a Phuket-based forensic officer, said 13 of the 89 bodies were totally burnt. His team would collect tissue samples from the bodies and wait for relatives to match their DNAs with the samples.

Acting national police chief Seripisuth Temiyavej said rescue workers have retrieved all dead bodies from the wreckage of the crashed plane. He also set up a body identification panel, chaired by Pol Lt-Gen Potjanee Sunthornket of the Police Hospital.

He said the forensic team should finish identifying all the dead as soon as charred bodies can be identified from DNA samples, fingerprints and teeth.

Pol Gen Seripisuth also assigned his deputy, Patcharawat Wongsuwan, to head a team that would find out if the crash was caused by any human error or recklessness.

Local authorities said relatives have already claimed the bodies of 36 Thai passengers, two Israelis and one Indonesian. The remaining 50 bodies are being kept at a multi-purpose building of Phuket international airport.

Relatives who want to have the bodies of their loved ones flown home may seek assistance for free-of-charge air transport from the cargo section of Thai Airways International, officials said.

Meanwhile, Foreign Ministry deputy spokesman Piriya Khempon said the ministry has set up a coordination centre to assist relatives of foreign passengers on board the crashed airliner as well as embassy staff. The centre could be reached at Tel 0-2644-7245 and 0-2643-5522.

According to local authorities, among the 89 dead victims were five senior officials based in Phuket and Phangnga. They were two judges and three provincial office heads.

Article continues here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/18Sep2007_news13.php

LaoPo

[jetjock]

ELKANGORITO

Suggest you read ICAO Annex 2 rules of the Air to understand the difference. - (or can go on website UK-CAA to find the rules of the Air). Rules which does not mean that flying IFR, you do not have to look outside, sure it is good practice when VMC-

Only "insiders" know what ICAO, UKCAA, IFR, VMC mean - so your post just informed 1% of the readers here.

From reading through the posts, it appears that some of the posters and readers are not aware of the meaning of some of the aviation acronyms or are not using them correctly so here is a brief description of some of the terms I have seen used on this topic.

ICAO--International Civil Aviation Organization which is an agency of the United Nations that codifies principles and techniques of of Int'l air navigation and development of air transport.

IFR--instrument flight rules

IMC--instrument meteorological conditions

VFR--visual flight rules

VMC--visual meteorological condition

Go around-- If for some reason the pilot decides not to land, he can fly back up to traffic pattern altitude and fly another circuit in preparation for another landing or leaving the pattern.

Missed Approach--Flight conducted under instrument flight rules (IFR) execute a 'Missed Approach' which rather than 'going around' is a pre-defined missed approach procedure published on an published approach chart.

As a sidenote, this accident is just another grim reminder that aviation can be very unforgiving. I have lost several of my pilot friends and acquaintances in airplane accidents during my many years in the aviation community. My deepest condolences go out to the families and friends of the passengers and crewmembers that died in this tragic accident--And for my fellow pilots : "To fly west, my friend, is a flight we all must take for a final check."

edited:spelling

Edited September 17, 2007 by jetjock

[Asian Frog]

I have begun to fly long time ago. I have gotten the privilege flying Boeing 707 with those commanders, World War II veterans: yes, some were arrogant and too much self confident. After several incidents and accidents, my Airlines Management has decided to introduce a psychological selection in order to avoid “maladjusted” people like some of those veterans (Very good military pilots, experienced but poor human performances - not due to stress-), then following incidents, some European Airlines, followed by nearly all worldwide other Airlines, have introduced cockpit voice recorders, anonymous and systematically flight analysis in order to detect deviations: a patient and long hunting after any possible source of incident/accident.

Human Performances and Limitations have been introduced in the Pilot Training, Crew Resources Management and very recently “Threat Error Management”… All this constitutes what is named the “Civil Aviation Culture”.

This culture and the safety improvements have been done by an in-depth work, analysing every detail of every accident and incident. This work is going on, far from the sensational foam of the news.

During this long period of time, I have lost some friends. Every time, the same scenario, the foam of sensational news, a short period when everybody writes anything then as new sensational thing arises, it is forgotten….except by the experts who are working for improving procedures and equipment. But this work is done silently ….The foam and all the comments have only one result: to hurt unnecessarily relatives of dead people, particularly those of the crew.

Please, can you understand that your comments are inappropriate in this mourning period.

[cdnvic]

MD-80 does not have frequent crash history

Aside from the A330/A340 which has no fatal accidents in airline service, the MD-80 series has the best safety record of all jetliners (Latest accident not factored in) in terms of fatal events per one million flights.

For comparison:

MD-80: 0.45 per 1,000,000

737: 0.62 per 1,000,000

747: 1.62 per 1,000,000

[Burr]

[

Almost all airliners fly IFR, it's nothing to them. they still lookout the window from time to time but at the speed they are going it's not worth it. They use their radar to look 30 miles ahead but ATC tells them everything to do and everything close to them. They are always 1000 feet above or below another plane and well clear on the sides.

By going IFR the ATC does the work!!!

Burr

[mr_hippo]

If you want to know the real reasons of accident please go on the NTSB website (or equivalent Civil Aviation Authorities) in 6 months, time which is required for analysing all data. Analysing all contributing factors, including forensic expertise of the pilot bodies, analysis of their activities during the last 48 hours, analysis of their training, as well as check of all maintenance operations during the last month, analysis of weather conditions, analysis of all recorders (Aircraft and ATC)....

Sometimes the truth does not always come out, the report on Saudia SV163 is mainly fabricated.

Edited September 17, 2007 by mr_hippo

[wpcoe]

MD-80 does not have frequent crash history

The US-made McDonnell Douglas MD-80 series aircraft like the one that crashed in Phuket on Sunday does not have a poor safety record or a history of frequent crashes. Since the mid-size, medium-range airliner, with the distinctive feature of having two rear fuselage-mounted turbofan engines, small wings and a T-tail, was introduced in 1980s, it has been involved only four accidents. Three, including Sunday's One-Two-Go tragedy, involved fatalities.

The three previous incidents were:

On Dec 27, 1991, SAS flight 751, an MD-81 aircraft, OY-KHO ''Dana Viking'' crash-landed in Gottrra, Sweden.

In the initial climb, both engines ingested ice breaking loose from the wings, which had not been properly de-iced before departure. Both engines were destroyed, leaving the aircraft with no propulsion. The aircraft landed in a field and broke into three parts. No fire broke out and all aboard the plane survived.

On Jan 31, 2000, Alaska Airlines Flight 261, an MD-83 aircraft, crashed in the Pacific Ocean, about 4.3km north of Anacapa Island, California, due to the inadequate maintenance of the jackscrew assembly.

The two pilots, three cabin crew, and 83 passengers on board were killed, and the airplane was destroyed.

On Oct 8, 2001, SAS flight SK686, an MD-87 aircraft, SE-DMA, collided with a small Cessna jet during take-off at Linate Airport, Milan, Italy.

The Linate Airport disaster left 114 people dead. It has been established that the cause of the accident was a misunderstanding between air traffic controllers and the Cessna jet, and that the SAS crew had no role in causing the accident. Another factor was the ground movement radar not being in operation at the time of the accident.

Article continues here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/18Sep2007_news11.php

LaoPo

It seems the Bangkok Post uses Wikipedia for its source. See http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/view_ma...i?aircraft=MD-8 for a significantly different set of detailed statistics. (Or see previous post #328 where it is quoted)

[geriatrickid]

MD-80 does not have frequent crash history

Aside from the A330/A340 which has no fatal accidents in airline service, the MD-80 series has the best safety record of all jetliners (Latest accident not factored in) in terms of fatal events per one million flights.

For comparison:

MD-80: 0.45 per 1,000,000

737: 0.62 per 1,000,000

747: 1.62 per 1,000,000

The values provided above, particularly those that relate to the B747, can lead folks to draw inaccurate conclusions. It is important to differentiate between mechanical failure and human error or intent. The numbers given include fatalities due to such events as terrorism (Lockerbie) or total pilot error (Tenerife). For PAX like me that worry about aircraft reliability and safety, the B747 has an excellent record. Pilot error can occur with any airplane and I would think it is more airline carrier and route specific, i.e. Quantas, Air canada - great; Aeroflot - scary.

Edited September 18, 2007 by geriatrickid

[cdnvic]

But its also entirely possible that good aircraft design makes for less pilot error.

[peterpanner]

MD-80 does not have frequent crash history

Aside from the A330/A340 which has no fatal accidents in airline service, the MD-80 series has the best safety record of all jetliners (Latest accident not factored in) in terms of fatal events per one million flights.

For comparison:

MD-80: 0.45 per 1,000,000

737: 0.62 per 1,000,000

747: 1.62 per 1,000,000

The values provided above, particularly those that relate to the B747, can lead folks to draw inaccurate conclusions. It is important to differentiate between mechanical failure and human error or intent. The numbers given include fatalities due to such events as terrorism (Lockerbie) or total pilot error (Tenerife). For PAX like me that worry about aircraft reliability and safety, the B747 has an excellent record. Pilot error can occur with any airplane and I would think it is more airline carrier and route specific, i.e. Quantas, Air canada - great; Aeroflot - scary.

These stats say not much. I feel a lot safer on a 747 than a 737 and that has nothing to do with size. Also, some carriers like Thai and 12go (we don't even start to mention Africa where all outdated planes go) use very old planes, repaint them to make them look new. Just check the betamax they use for safety instructions.

[madjbs]

Just because you "feel" safe it doesnt meen it is safe. Lots of people feel safe in cars and not in planes even though the chances of dieing in a road accident are far greater.

[taxexile]

In the MD-80 International Forum, sources close to One-Two-Go report that the deceased Captain Arief M., 56, Indonesian, had lost his medical earlier this year, but was nevertheless flying, despite having been grounded for two months. He was the Chief Pilot of One-Two-Go and a retired air force officer.

this , from another forum.

some very interesting comments about this awful incident over at pprune ( a pilots ( and others in the air biz) forum)

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

"A source at the Aeronautical Radio of Thailand (Aerothai), which oversees air traffic control in the country, said the traffic controllers at Phuket International Airport had informed the pilot about the bad weather conditions.

"The final decision on whether to land was made by the pilot, we only gave him the conditions," said the source who asked not to be named.

According to the source, besides the heavy rain and bad visibility, there was 30-knot crosswind at the airport at the very moment the plane attempted to landing.

"It was a very strong crosswind. The pilot should not have landed," said the source."

http://nationmultimedia.com/2007/09/18/hea...es_30049332.php

If true (the tower notified the pilot about the crosswind) so much for the airline pilots never take chances theory.

Edited September 18, 2007 by ChiangMaiAmerican

[cdnvic]

These stats say not much. I feel a lot safer on a 747 than a 737 and that has nothing to do with size. Also, some carriers like Thai and 12go (we don't even start to mention Africa where all outdated planes go) use very old planes, repaint them to make them look new. Just check the betamax they use for safety instructions.

Actually, the average age of Thai's fleet is only ten years, so your accusation that they use very old planes is inaccurate.

If you have the connection to post on a forum, you have the ability to look the facts up first before making allegations.

[peterpanner]

I forgot to mention AirAsia, but there are so many who try to to the business with cheapest possible planes .... Then you can save a little more on maintenance.

[cdnvic]

If true (the tower notified the pilot about the crosswind) so much for the airline pilots never take chances theory.

That theory was a non-starter from the beginning. Most major crashes that have happened in Thailand, and some of the worst in history involved pilots taking chances.

[taxexile]

video by passenger just after he escaped the plane

wait for the advert to finish , 14 seconds.

[peterpanner]

These stats say not much. I feel a lot safer on a 747 than a 737 and that has nothing to do with size. Also, some carriers like Thai and 12go (we don't even start to mention Africa where all outdated planes go) use very old planes, repaint them to make them look new. Just check the betamax they use for safety instructions.

Actually, the average age of Thai's fleet is only ten years, so your accusation that they use very old planes is inaccurate.

If you have the connection to post on a forum, you have the ability to look the facts up first before making allegations.

The average? The ones I sat in were so old, route to CNX from BKK and back, it was scary. No, I don't have any written documents to prove this. All I had were my own eyes. I worked at an airport, I saw about 1,000,000 planes or more. Does that qualify me to guess if a plane is old or not ? Maybe I'm wrong, maybe you should just feel safe.

[cdnvic]

These stats say not much. I feel a lot safer on a 747 than a 737 and that has nothing to do with size. Also, some carriers like Thai and 12go (we don't even start to mention Africa where all outdated planes go) use very old planes, repaint them to make them look new. Just check the betamax they use for safety instructions.

Actually, the average age of Thai's fleet is only ten years, so your accusation that they use very old planes is inaccurate.

If you have the connection to post on a forum, you have the ability to look the facts up first before making allegations.

The average? The ones I sat in were so old, route to CNX from BKK and back, it was scary. No, I don't have any written documents to prove this. All I had were my own eyes. I worked at an airport, I saw about 1,000,000 planes or more. Does that qualify me to guess if a plane is old or not ? Maybe I'm wrong, maybe you should just feel safe.

In the case of the allegation you made against Thai, you are wrong. Looking at planes doesn't qualify you for anything if you don't learn the facts about them.

[peterpanner]

video by passenger just after he escaped the plane

wait for the advert to finish , 14 seconds.

Thanks for that video, and OMG, those poor people involved in that tragedy. I think one of the previous posters was right, it might be time to show some respect and shut up (I mean me) - but on the other hand, you need to talk about problems to solve them.

[kangeroo]

Yes so sorry for all the people that have died and sorry to family and loved ones that are here to have to cope with all of this.

Im in melbourne at the moment and have done that flight many times in stormy wheather ,and everytime its rough going .

There are a lot of reasons why ,i just hope they take notice and improve it for the next flights .

[taxexile]

Two British men on board an airliner which crash-landed in Thailand were hailed as heroes last night for saving several of their fellow passengers by smashing their way out of the burning wreckage.

Officials say at least six Britons are among the 89 people killed in the accident at the southern resort of Phuket. Fifty-three of the dead are foreigners.

Among the missing are a couple from Bristol who were on their way to start a new life abroad, and two recent graduates who had just begun six months of travelling.

The plane exploded after it landed in bad weather and slid off the runway, crashing through trees and becoming partially buried in an embankment.

Peter Hill, from Manchester, and Ashley Scott Harrow, from Northern Ireland, were said to have saved at least eight people by forcing open a jammed emergency exit.

Mildred Furlong, a 23-year-old Canadian student, was sitting in the row in front of Mr Hill on the flight from Bangkok. She described watching him struggle with the emergency door as the passengers choked on suffocating smoke.

"He is a hero," she said last night. "He saved everybody's lives with that. I wouldn't be alive today if he hadn't kicked that door open. I nearly passed out."

Mr Hill, 35, was visited in hospital by the Thai foreign minister Nitya Pibulsonggram, who said: "I believe he pulled two people out. He's a hero."

Among those he saved were Vladimir and Isabella Freylikhman, aged 28 and 29, who were sitting in the same row. Several others then escaped through the opening.

However, Mr Hill spoke modestly of his role in the escape last night. He told The Daily Telegraph from hospital: "I can't really remember. I might have got it open a crack but it was Scott who smashed it open."

Mr Harrow, 27, from Moira, County Down, is being treated for a broken back, shock and burns to his face and hands and was not well enough to speak about the crash yesterday.

The Britons caught up in the accident include Bethan Jones, 23, from Porth in the Rhondda Valley, who is in a critical condition with 80 per cent burns, and her boyfriend, Alex Collins, 22, from Maesteg, South Wales, who is missing. Mr Collins had planned the trip after getting a 2.1 degree in English literature.

He worked in call centres for Lloyds Bank and Admiral Insurance over the past year to save money while Miss Jones finished her degree.

In a message on the internet site Facebook, he wrote: "Me and my lovely girlfriend Bethan have saved lots of money and are travelling, leaving on 13 Sept for six months of fun (YAY!)"

Last night Miss Jones's father Stephen and brother Dewi were arranging to fly out to her, while Mr Collins's family waited for news.

A family friend said: "It is unbelievable and we're all in a state of shock. They were so excited and had been planning this trip for ages. They've been saving up and were really looking forward to it. It is hard to believe that just a few days later it has all turned to tragedy."

Judy Weston, 64, a former health care assistant, and her husband, Anthony, 67, a retired aerospace technician, had recently sold their home in the Bristol suburb of Hanham to move abroad.

Diane Evans, 41, a midwife, moved to the Gold Coast in Queensland with her husband, Mark, 45, three weeks ago and her mother and stepfather were due to visit them to decide whether they would retire to Australia or to Spain.

"They had both recently retired and they had been to Thailand a lot," Mrs Evans said. "In a New Year raffle they won hotel accommodation in Phuket and they were going there for a month before coming to see us.

"I spoke to my mum the day before yesterday. She said she was missing us and looking forward to seeing us. It is all very tragic. We are a close family. We feel some responsibility in that we came out here and they were coming to see us."

uk daily telegraph.

its when you read the personal details behind the statistics that the awfulness of disasters like this really sinks in.

Edited September 18, 2007 by taxexile

[Carmine6]

video by passenger just after he escaped the plane

wait for the advert to finish , 14 seconds.

Another sad thing is this video is not that long afterwards and look how much visibility there is. Strong wind and rain but doesn't appear to be big gusts. Doesn't guarantee it's clear at higher elevations but I can't help but think they missed better landing conditions by a matter of minutes.

[peterpanner]

That's what I thought - looks like rather good conditions, actually. Pilots should be put under less stress, but we all are at fault for blaming any flight to be not on time.

(Why was my last post deleted? Did I say sth wrong?)

[Johpa]

video by passenger just after he escaped the plane

wait for the advert to finish , 14 seconds.

Another sad thing is this video is not that long afterwards and look how much visibility there is. Strong wind and rain but doesn't appear to be big gusts. Doesn't guarantee it's clear at higher elevations but I can't help but think they missed better landing conditions by a matter of minutes.

The video shows that only a few minutes, perhaps three or four minutes after the crash the weather was fairly mild. But many of us have experienced those very brief yet intense rain showers in Thailand when the wind swirls around violently at the initial onset of the squall. Also to be noted that there are as yet no emergency vehicles at the scene of the incident.

Edited September 18, 2007 by Johpa

[Jingjok]

... Also to be noted that there are as yet no emergency vehicles at the scene of the incident.

Good point. The a/c has clearly been on the ground for a time, so where in God's name are the fire appliances? HKT is an international airport with permanent, immediate fire cover on standby during operating hours.

[jeebusjones]

I was thinking the same thing. They should have been there within a minute. Maybe they could have contained the fire at least long enough for a few more people to escape.

... Also to be noted that there are as yet no emergency vehicles at the scene of the incident.

Good point. The a/c has clearly been on the ground for a time, so where in God's name are the fire appliances? HKT is an international airport with permanent, immediate fire cover on standby during operating hours.