Flight OG269: At Least 88 Bodies Found At Phuket Airport Crash Site

[peterpanner]

I'm not religious at all, and I understand you did not address me, but I agree, anything that helps is a good thing.

And working disasters, wow, I couldn't. Glad we're not all as week as I am.

[lazeeboy]

catnip>> It was just noting that sometimes the most important part is being there and listening. Bringing religious scripture of any kind and beginning to read might have an adverse effect, especially if done against someone of a different faith. But being supportive is always welcomed.

the best way to cheer these poor people is love from family and freinds ,being so far away from home and injured ,not being able to understand whats going on is very unsettling ,i wish all the suvivors a speedy recovery ,and re patriation with there loved ones ..

[george]

Surayud cancels planned Phuket visit

BANGKOK: -- Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont on Monday pledged to provide full assistance to the victims of a budget airline crash in Phuket Island over the weekend that killed at least 90 people, many of them foreigners.

"The government and government agencies will provide our full assistance to the victims and their relatives," said Surayud, visiting relatives at Bangkok's Don Muang Airport.

The prime minister had to cancel plans to fly to Phuket, 640 kilometres south of Bangkok, as the island's airport remained closed Monday.

Investigators of the crash have already found the two black box flight recorders on the One-Two-Go budget airline that crashed after landing Sunday afternoon in a rain storm.

Phuket deputy governor Worraphot Ratsrima said the black boxes will be sent to the US for analysis, with results expected within seven days.

--DPA 2007-09-17

[khuntony]

A dreadful tragedy, my condolences to all the families who have suffered such a loss.

It is with great anger that I have been reading this topic. Once again, as with the Tsunami and other tragedies that have hit this country, we find ourselves littered with would be experts, all having to show their own importance.

As a retired meteorologist, who was involved in the teaching of meteorology to prospective pilots, I can only urge people to wait for the results of the crash investigation.

This is not a time for speculation. It is a time for us all to register our sadness at yet another tragedy in Thailand.

I thoroughly concur CC with your thoughts. I have been in aviation all my working life, unfortunately this won't be the last occurrence of this type, in Asia, or anywhere else around the world. No amount of second-guessing by mostly ill-informed commentators will prevent these events. Thanks also to you Dekka007 for your well informed, professional and in some cases, restrained commentary. Thanks also to Simon for your plain and simple, on-the-spot observations.

It only remains for me to add my condolences to those who have lost friends and loved ones, and my hope that the survivors will recover as quickly as possible.

[catnip]

Being there and listening and repatriation are the best things. I don't know the extent of the injuries, but you do have to be pretty stable to get on a flight to go home. Although I was involved in sending someone in a coma home on a plane, that took a lot of space on the plane and volunteer staff. I would never push religion or anything on someone who didn't want it. But, you might be surprised when listening and talking to someone what they would find comfort in. I was thinking specifically of the Australian, British, and Irish, right off to bat. Although there are others. I guess helping out as a non-denominational pastor assistant that visits people of all faiths traditions and respects them shows through.

The main thing is thinking of the best for everyone. and to each of us that may be something different. All the suggestions helpful.

[Sidewindr]

THANK YOU....

Sure, this is a news-thread...but has it to be "the more blood, the bigger the audience"??????

Wont ever understand why some of you guys here use this thread as a discussion for your better or worse experiences;

It was a planecrash and the investigation of the FAA will show the results/reasons.....

What does it matter, how many thai, british, indonesian etc.... as far as i remember we have all the same DNA...so just leave it with your condolences...

Sad enough that there were any injuries at all.....No money can repair what is lost....lives.

black day not only for the victims, common most foreign minds transpose things like this tragedy to all which is related to Thailand....

hawe

Ermm NO 2 people have the same DNA unless they are identical twins. It matters who perished because many people are trying to determine if any of their friends or reltaives were on that plane.

[naka]

REUTERS names Indonesian pilot on crash plane.

Here

But no mention if he was pilot or not.

Naka.

Edited September 17, 2007 by naka

[Scott]

Last night while watching CNN, they had the meteorologist on who was explaining how problematic storms such as the one they were landing in can be. He said that conditions can be quite variable from moment to moment and that even the distance from the weather reporting equipment to the runway can be a factor.

They were being very cautious in their reporting, but stated that type of aircraft had encountered few design problems over the years. The weatherman seemed to think that big downdrafts (microbursts) were possible in the type of weather systems they could see on radar.

My paper didn't arrive on time this morning, so if I am rehashing something here, my apologies.

[Mid]

Weeks Before Jet Crash Cause Is Known

Updated: 05:37, Monday September 17, 2007

snip

Thailand's Transport minister Theera Haocharoen said the flight's two data recorders, or "black boxes", had been recovered from the wreckage - but it was too early to say what caused the crash.

"The officials have found the black boxes and will send them for analysis to US," he said.

"Hopefully, we will learn in a few weeks the cause of accident."

snip

news.sky.com

[think_too_mut]

The place really has a special appeal:

The Sydney Morning Herald:

The mother of 48-year-old Robert Borland - an Australian who survived the crash - said she was phoned by her son about 9pm Perth time (12pm Sydney time) yesterday.

Muriel Robertson, 71, said the first thing Mr Borland, who also survived the 2004 Boxing Day tsunami in Phuket, did was to reassure her.

"He did the same when the tsunami hit. All I got was: 'hi mum, I'm all right.' And I said: 'Good, what's happened?' And he said: 'I'm in hospital, I was in a plane crash,' '' she said.

Mr Borland told his mother that he had escaped life-threatening injuries - his head and torso were OK, she said - but he had a broken right arm and burnt legs.

"He said: 'I can move my toes mum, don't worry.' So I said: 'Good, I'll get on the first plane and come up.' And he said: 'Should you?' And I said: 'I'm not going to argue with you, I'll get on the first plane.'

"I want to go up there, make sure he's OK and if not I want to get him back as soon as possible and under [the care of burns specialist] Fiona Wood. As soon as he is capable I want him on a flight back,'' she said.

She also expressed her gratitude to the mystery person who reportedly pulled Mr Borland from the burning wreckage.

"I wouldn't know what to say to that person. I would probably embarrass him by falling all over him.''

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/aussie-fe...9881350201.html

[steffi]

So they are already squabbling about insurance and compensation for the victims families...

I hope the media stays on that one because it will be very interested to see just exactly who and what nationalities are in fact compensated after the initial suggestion was that they would only compensate Thai victims.

[h5n1]

The plane was an md-80(2). Old but McDglas makes some great planes. As w/ what dekka had posted. I am certain this will be chalked up to pilot error.

Channel News Asia has already reported the plane's wing was clipped by a hill or a tree (i forget).

I never fly within a country in Asia. Its expensive and I don't trust local pilots. A jet will drop like a rock without power. You at least stand some chance in a prop.

~ the majority were tourists (in low season). who was saying we are not a huge contributor to the economy??

Condolances to families & friends.

RE: insurance and squabbles. I met a guy in Penang who went to hospital after a HatYai mall bombing. They govt/police/hospital forced him to pay for his injury and his Thai gf. AMAZING THAILAND. There will be no compensation above what would be paid out to a Thai peasant. I will bet half my savings on that.

Edited September 17, 2007 by h5n1

[Mid]

One-Two-Go has USD300 million insurance policy for each accident

September 17, 2007 : Last updated 08:58 am

The Orient Thai Airlines has bought insurance for its One-Two-Go aircrafts for USD300 million per each accident, Air Transport Department Director-General Chaiyasak Angkhasuwan said Monday.

The insurance policy covers third-party persons and Orient Thai will initially pay Bt100,000 for funeral cost to each victim, he said.

The Nation

[h5n1]

The insurance policy covers third-party persons and Orient Thai will initially pay Bt100,000 for funeral cost to each victim, he said.

Well, there you go. 100K. that won't even get the casket home. My point exactly.

[Mid]

Scot mistakenly listed as Phuket plane survivor

17 Sep 2007 04:54:24 GMT

Source: Reuters

PHUKET, Thailand, Sept 17 (Reuters) - The number of survivors of the Phuket air crash was cut by one to 41 on Monday after a Thai hospital mistakenly included a Scottish tourist on the list, officials said.

snip

alertnet.org

[simon43]

I heard from a 'colleague' that he was paid 25,000 baht after he sent some photos of this acccident to a German TV channel.

How one can profit from a tragedy like this is beyond my comprehension. I have offered my hotel facilities (whatever we have) free-of-charge to embassy staff and those directly affected.

Simon

[Mid]

Thai investigators sift through Phuket plane wreck

Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:07am EDT

By Jackie Wong

PHUKET, Thailand (Reuters) - Thai air investigators sifted though the wreckage on Monday of a budget airliner that crashed on the resort isle of Phuket, killing 88 people as it broke up while trying to land in driving rain.

As well as looking for clues as to why the McDonnell Douglas MD-82 veered off the runway and smashed into a densely wooded embankment, rescue workers still have to recover five bodies from the wreckage.

snip

reuters.com

Thai TV updates the above figure to 4 , one found .

Edited September 17, 2007 by Mid

[lazeeboy]

I heard from a 'colleague' that he was paid 25,000 baht after he sent some photos of this acccident to a German TV channel.

How one can profit from a tragedy like this is beyond my comprehension. I have offered my hotel facilities (whatever we have) free-of-charge to embassy staff and those directly affected.

Simon

this how some people earn there living ,sad but true.

[cdnvic]

I never fly within a country in Asia. Its expensive and I don't trust local pilots. A jet will drop like a rock without power. You at least stand some chance in a prop.

Wrong. There have been several cases of jetliners gliding substantial distances to safe landings (Air Transat 236 for example). Jets generally are more aerodynamic than prop planes.

[cdnvic]

I heard from a 'colleague' that he was paid 25,000 baht after he sent some photos of this acccident to a German TV channel.

How one can profit from a tragedy like this is beyond my comprehension. I have offered my hotel facilities (whatever we have) free-of-charge to embassy staff and those directly affected.

Simon

this how some people earn there living ,sad but true.

How many of us went looking for pictures? Where do you think they come from?

[lazeeboy]

I heard from a 'colleague' that he was paid 25,000 baht after he sent some photos of this acccident to a German TV channel.

How one can profit from a tragedy like this is beyond my comprehension. I have offered my hotel facilities (whatever we have) free-of-charge to embassy staff and those directly affected.

Simon

this how some people earn there living ,sad but true.

How many of us went looking for pictures? Where do you think they come from?

on cnn the news caster was asking for photos and video 1 hour after the crash ..............

[Who, me ?]

I never fly within a country in Asia. Its expensive and I don't trust local pilots. A jet will drop like a rock without power. You at least stand some chance in a prop.

Wrong. There have been several cases of jetliners gliding substantial distances to safe landings (Air Transat 236 for example). Jets generally are more aerodynamic than prop planes.

If my memory serves me right (and ny english not too crappy) , while gliding , 1 km down means about 15 kms horizontal travel.....Is that right ?

[george]

Phuket Airport To Reopen Monday Evening

Thai Airways flights currently rerouted to Krabi Airport

All details:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=142932

[cdnvic]

I never fly within a country in Asia. Its expensive and I don't trust local pilots. A jet will drop like a rock without power. You at least stand some chance in a prop.

Wrong. There have been several cases of jetliners gliding substantial distances to safe landings (Air Transat 236 for example). Jets generally are more aerodynamic than prop planes.

If my memory serves me right (and ny english not too crappy) , while gliding , 1 km down means about 15 kms horizontal travel.....Is that right ?

Depends on the aircraft and meteorological factors. In the case of AC143 (a 767-200), they reported about a 12:1 glide ratio.

[Darknight]

And your point is?? Yes every pilot once had 250 hours.... but is it wise or sane to put them at the controls of an airliner with hundreds of peoples lives in their hands at that point? At 250 hours these guys had only seen a single engine recip engine with a propellor out front. You logic amazes me - but then...... maybe not.

Is your name Khun Udom?

This policy is almost world standard now with ALL major airlines in the UK for example taking Frozen ATPL applicants - all beit not all are successful. I am not saying I agree with the recruitment of these guys however I have flown with some on airliners who are very competent operators.

I guess the problem here is the training facilities / instruction of the new atpl holders is not as high standard as some other countries. Am I concerned when I fly with a frozen ATPL holder with 250 hours - actually no I am not - in can at times increase the workload but not to a dangerous extent. Indeed my own airline just recruited a 250 hour onto the airbus here in asia - however he was trained in europe.

Hoy,

Please let me remind you that even the best pilot, when struck with freak weather conditions, can not save the airplane. When it stalls , it simply stalls. when you are at that time 30 or 100 meters over the ground there is nothing more you can do about it.

My gutfeeling is that the accident was caused by either extreme windschear or a Microburst (hard downdraft that is very localized) which was due to the CB / stormcell(s) that were present. This made the airplane smack into the runway just when he wanted to go around.

Also,

Due to people wanting to fly more and more and at cheaper prices , Boeing is predicting that from now untill 2025 the world will need 17.000 new pilots yearly !! only to accomodate the order book for new airplanes that are ordered.

For this reason a new type of Pilots license has been created MPL (multicrew pilot's license) which does away with the older emphasis on Flight hours ( from small to large aircraft) and uses more flight simulator hours and practical training. From this you can become Second in command after only 240 Hours of wich only 65 need to be on the real aircraft. The first batch of pilots has graduated from this year. Even though some pilots associations are weary about this approach and say it would endanger safety and quality in pilots, once they have their license they can operate anywhere in the world.

So,

Next time you hate to get diverted due to bad weather , etc, this is done for your own safety!

By the way for the comment about pilots not wanting to divert for reasons of saving face. I think this is total bull. Your best insurance in an airplane is that the pilots don't want to die!!

[chrislarsson]

People with the following seatings managed to escape the plane (I think 5 are still in critical conditions):

6 A

18 A

19 B

20 A, B

21 A

22 A, D, E, F

23 A, B, D, E, F

24 A, B, D, E, F

25 A, B, D, E, F

26 A, B ,D, E, F

27 A

28 A, B,

29 D, E, F

The plane broke in half at row 17. The last row was 29.

The emergancy doors were at row 25. Two Swedish guys (about 25 yo) with seatings 25 A and B opened the doors immediately when the plane came to a stop. According to interview, they had been discussing how to open the door before the crash. This shows the importance of putting fit people at the emergency doors, and also instucting them how to open it. At a situation like this there is no time to think and it may be dark. At the same time you will have other passengers panicking and pushing towards the door.

As I understand it, the pilot decided to cancel the landing just before touch down, but failed to lift the plane. Vertical gust winds might have thrown the plane down to the ground (my speculation, i dont know anything about difficult weather conditions).

Edited September 17, 2007 by chrislarsson

[Darknight]

I never fly within a country in Asia. Its expensive and I don't trust local pilots. A jet will drop like a rock without power. You at least stand some chance in a prop.

Wrong. There have been several cases of jetliners gliding substantial distances to safe landings (Air Transat 236 for example). Jets generally are more aerodynamic than prop planes.

If my memory serves me right (and ny english not too crappy) , while gliding , 1 km down means about 15 kms horizontal travel.....Is that right ?

Hi as CDnvic says, it depends on the aircraft, weather conditions, wing loads etc... Basically the L/D (glide ratio) is a theoretical number of how an airplane glides at certain speeds. This excludes possible weather influences.

Basically if your L/D (glide ratio) i 1:40 you can fly 40km's far when you are 1 km high. However when you encounter sinking air all the time in glide this ratio goes down drastically. when you encounter thermals the ratio goes up. On average in long final glides the ratio is mostly accurate as your encounter about the same amount of sink and rise when crossing large stretches of land.

For a big heavy aircraft of course the glide ratio is substantially lower and situate is indeed somewhere in the 1:12 - 1:15 range.

The reason why jets glide better then props is that the prop when stationary (not turning) induces a lot of drag on the airplane thus decreasing the Glide ratio.

By the way i'm a glider pilot , We never have engine failures

[george]

Update:

Rescuers retrieve more bodies from Phuket wreckage, 90 confirmed dead

PHUKET: -- Rescue operations continued Monday to recover the remaining three bodies under the wreckage of the ill-fated One-Two-Go aircraft which clashed at Phuket International Airport on Sunday.

Retrieval of the bodies of the three victims still in the wreckage of the budget carrier remains difficult as the cranes cannot maintain stability of the soggy ground made muddy from continuing torrential rains.

Ninety fatalities have been reported so far, with the bodies being kept at Phuket airport for an initial autopsy. Some 40 passengers survived the incident.

Phuket International Airport has suspended services while rescue workers work to retrieve the remaining bodies, trapped beneath the wreckage of the airplane. The plane will be cleared and services at the airport may be not resumed on Monday as earlier planned, according to a TNA reporter.

Meanwhile, officials from the Australian, British, French, German and Israeli embassies arrived at the Phuket airport to retrieve 20 corpses of foreign nationals who had been identified, while the identification of 41 additional foreigners are under way. Twenty-four foreign passengers remain in hospital.

Minister of Transport Thira Haocharoen said the black box flight data had been recovered and will be sent to the United States or Australia for inspection, and that it will take more than a week to know the cause of the incident.

Meanwhile, Public Health Minister Dr. Mongkol Na Songkla said that a police forensic team was sent to Phuket Sunday evening and is conducting autopsies to identify the dead, some of which might require DNA tests as the experts found it difficult to identify the charred remains of many of the victims.

The Public Health Minister also added that the medical team was sufficient for the number of the injured during their hospitalisation.

The passenger jet operated by Thai budget carrier One-Two-Go veered off a runway at Phuket International Airport during a landing attempt amid heavy rain and strong crosswinds. The aircraft – identified as an MD 82 model – broke into two sections before bursting into flame in both wings and the rear section of the broken aircraft.

The plane's passenger list included 123 persons plus seven crew members.

--TNA 2007-09-17

[samtam]

One of the witnesses was interviewed by CNN and had just arrived on the flight prior to OG269. He commented that he had missed taking the fated flight because he had left from Suvarnabhumi rather than Don Muang, and that in Bangkok people just turned up for these local flights at the airport. This statement surprised me, as I thought most if not all of these flights had to be pre-booked, (especially on the low cost airlines). CNN then reported this as a lucky escape for this passenger, but I' not sure this is actually how these operations work here. Anyone know?

[simon43]

You can certainly just turn up at the airport without pre-booking, although you cannot guarantee that you will get a seat because these flights to/from Phuker are always busy.

Simon