Flight OG269: At Least 88 Bodies Found At Phuket Airport Crash Site

[MrOzark]

Isn't it amazing how the words 'government' and 'official' make most of us automatically

think the source has 'authority' and is 'reliable'. I've learned everything about this crash

from this web site and know more than my friends around the world who watch

television and read the papers. I trust myself to weed out the speculators, the chit-chatters

and those with an obvious agenda. I trust the average person more than any government

or news service that caters to advertisers or gets controlled by 'powerful lobbies'.

Too bad for those that want to control information and everything else. The internet has

'let the cat out of the bag'. Thanks for the info, everyone. I am currently on travel

in China and will be back to LOS soon. On line discussions and blogs are far from perfect, but

I'll take them over any other news source most of the time.

In this investigation, we have applied the ‘3-M concept; More like 'masking" tape from 3m.

Sad but true.

What is amazing is that these remains have been dumped OUTSIDE of the airport security fence! That is, the remains are totally accessible by anyone who cares to walk along the beach footpath.

What I find especially interesting is that last week several government officials came out and told people to stop speculating and wait for the results of the black box. But now they have released a report as to what they believe is the cause of the crash, but say it is still pending the final analysis of the black box. Am I missing something?

Edited September 28, 2007 by MrOzark

[Abrak]

Does anyone know why it takes so long to get that data out of the "black box"?

[A_Traveller]

Does anyone know why it takes so long to get that data out of the "black box"?

In many cases the boxes may have sustained damage and there is a need to create a 'chain of evidence' so that there is no risk that data is compromised. As an aside here, the data itself is not public domain, the US analysts treat it as confidential, and any public release is driven either by the laws of the country in which the accident occurs, or by the policies of the parties.

Regards

[Jai Dee]

Result of black box to be revealed today

Transport Minister Adm.Thira Haocharoen (ธีระ ห้าวเจริญ) reports that the U.S. is scheduled to send results from the inspection of two black boxes of the crashed One-Two-Go airplane to Thailand today (September, 28th). The minister expects that it might take a few weeks for the committee responsible for investigating of the accident to find the real cause of the plane crash.

In the meantime, Deputy Minister of Transport Sansern Wongcha-um (สรรเสริญ วงศ์ชะอุ่ม) says Thailand needs to step up standards of the aviation industry.

The ministry has set up a committee on the development of air-transport safety system consisting of representatives of eight airlines and relevant units. It has also instructed the Department of Civil Aviation to adjust ruled and regulations concerning safety of airlines.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 28 September 2007

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

One-Two-Go victim sues Boeing

A Thai air crash victim filed the first lawsuit in the United States against the Boeing Company, the US manufacturer of the aircraft which crashed at Phuket International Airport on September 16 which left 90 people dead.

Full article here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=122127

From the Law Firm's website concerning bargain basement airlines in developing countries:

Many Third World Planes Are Junks, US lawyer say

“The idea is to stop Southwest Airlines from selling junk but also Boeing to take responsibility,” Ribbeck said. “They’re selling these planes to startup discount airlines that do not have the expertise or capital necessary to maintain them properly.”

Full article here:

http://ribbeckandkelly.com/manuelribbecktwo.html

It appears from the articles that the purpose of the lawsuit is twofold. They want to create a legal responsibility for Boeing for selling and encouraging the sale of used aircraft to third world operators as well as use the discovery process to find information about the crash that Boeing may have been made aware of that was not released to the public. The firm according to information on their website is focused on representing victims of aircraft accidents.

[toptuan]

Survivors waiting up to 45 minutes to be taken from the crash site to shelter from the elements (refer to earlier posts regarding response times).

Picture received from One-Two flight attendant.

[geriatrickid]

Survivors waiting up to 45 minutes to be taken from the crash site to shelter from the elements (refer to earlier posts regarding response times).

Picture received from One-Two flight attendant.

The burns on those people are sufficient to have put them into shock. Their pain and absolute discomfort is extremely disturbing. It will be a long and painful recovery.

If there is something good to come out of this, it is a demonstration of safety specialist recommendations that airplane travelers wear pants and long sleeve shirts made from non synthetic material and have a jacket or sweater.

[mr_hippo]

http://ribbeckandkelly.com/manuelribbecktwo.html

More about Manuel von Ribbeck here: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn41...07/ai_n16046886. Not a very ethical chap!

No source for the photo and which 'passengers' are suffering from burns?

[cloudhopper]

I always thought this plane was built by McDonnell Douglas, not Boeing...

Anyway, this lawsuit doesn't stand a chance IMO the black boxes will show pilot error (continuing the approach) and windshear...

[A_Traveller]

I always thought this plane was built by McDonnell Douglas, not Boeing...

Anyway, this lawsuit doesn't stand a chance IMO the black boxes will show pilot error (continuing the approach) and windshear...

McDonnell Douglas became part of the Boeing group, some say it was 'killed'.

Regards

/edit PS Concerns were raised about the long term viability of the MD products when Boeing closed the Long Beach facility. It's been suggested that some MD spares are now only manufactured by third parties and concomitant additional cost.//

Edited September 29, 2007 by A_Traveller

[toptuan]

No source for the photo...

It's always good to have a septic...er...skeptic in every thread. Here's what I can tell you about the origin of the photo: Sorry, no original source named in the series of about 20 unique photographs of the accident sent from my personal friend who works as a flight attendant for the company. Most of the 20 other unique photos of the disaster show similar angles and obviously the same aircraft, recognized from news sources.

Looking at the list of "forward" emails in the trail, these photos are circulating among the Orient Thai staff, especially maintenance, engineers, and quality control staff.

Other partial email addresses these are being sent to are....

engineer@...(airline name)

qc_maint@...(airline name)

Here is the employee group website where these photographs are posted and commented upon by the employees of the ill-fated airline...

[email protected] or click here and here for direct links to the two volumes of photos.

As you look through the 20-odd photos circulating , you will recognize obvious evidence that this is the same disaster. The picture of the survivors is the one of the few which cannot be absolutely proven by the contents of the photo alone. However, the weight of the other photos in accompanying two groups of photos lend serious weight to its authenticity.

Beyond that, I can't help you any more...faith or caveat emptor.

[TAWP]

Someone complained about survivors taking pics and filming themselfs earlier.

I look at the last batch of pictures, aswell as the earlier one, and I find it more disturbing to see so many rescue personell standing around taking pictures...

[Mid]

this is 100% ready ??

right ....................................

[mr_hippo]

quote]

It's always good to have a septic [if you think that I am American then you are mistaken!]

Those photos were not taken by the CFR squad but someone in the engineering department. Now what can you tell me about the sequence in 'Vol 1'?

Photo_0001.jpg - one appliance on site

Photo_0002.jpg - second appliance arriving

Photo_0003.jpg - camera pans round to show runway scene

Photo_0004.jpg - photographer moves to the right of his position from 001

Photo_0005.jpg - photographer moves to the left and zooms in

Photo_0006.jpg - photographer either retreats or zooms out

Those photos were taken in sequence and if the camera had a manual film advance, that sequence would not have taken more than 2 minutes so were does the 45 minute wait come from?

If you want to follow the e-mail trail: Original message sent Mon, September 17, 2007 2:24 am to at least 4 airline employees, forwarded on September 19, 2007 4:51 pm to at least one hotmail address by the originator and then on Sat, 22 Sep 2007 19:56:15 +0700 to at least one hotmail address and CC'd and a CC reciepient forwarded on to the top name on the list at Sat, 22 Sep 2007 16:12:03 +0000.

Now where do you get the specific time of 45 minutes from?

[TAWP]

Try reading what he writes. And the 45 minutes was the pickup time for survivors not critically wounded as mentioned earlier in this thread, quoted from survivors and others.

[mr_hippo]

Try reading what he writes. And the 45 minutes was the pickup time for survivors not critically wounded as mentioned earlier in this thread, quoted from survivors and others.

Please think before typing. Re-read post 788

Full text:

"Survivors waiting up to 45 minutes to be taken from the crash site to shelter from the elements (refer to earlier posts regarding response times).

Picture received from One-Two flight attendant."

Followed by Photo_0003.jpg from HS-OMG FLT OG 269 VOL1. Publishing that photo with that text automatically links the two.

[toptuan]

So who do these people look like to you, Mr. Hippo:

The deceased victims?

Depressed rescue workers?

Psychologists preparing to debrief survivors?

Journalists? (No, I'm not talking about the obvious rescue worker in back with a camera.)

Flight attendants who somehow quickly changed clothes into foreign tourist garb?

Tourists who came for a picnic to watch the crash?

Read eyewitness account of Canadian tourist Mildred Furlong...

"Furlong said most survivors waited about 45 minutes before buses came and took them away to hospitals. On the way, one man sobbed uncontrollably but most others just stood in stunned silence, she said."

Source: USA Today, 17 Sept. 2007.

If you dispute that credit, then please Google it yourself.

I give up.

Edited September 29, 2007 by toptuan

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

http://ribbeckandkelly.com/manuelribbecktwo.html

More about Manuel von Ribbeck here: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn41...07/ai_n16046886. Not a very ethical chap!

No source for the photo and which 'passengers' are suffering from burns?

Unsubstantiated complaints do not make an attorney unethical. A little more research on your part would have revealed:

From the Attorney Registration and Disciplinary Commission of the Illinois Supreme Court

LAWYER SEARCH: ATTORNEY'S REGISTRATION AND PUBLIC DISCIPLINARY RECORD

ARDC Individual Attorney Record of Public Registration and Public Disciplinary and Disability Information as of September 28, 2007 at 9:00:00 AM:

Full Licensed Name: Manuel Von Ribbeck

Full Former name(s): Manuel Ribbeck

Date of Admission as Lawyer

by Illinois Supreme Court: November 9, 1995

Registered Business Address: 1660 N. LaSalle, Unit 4010

Chicago, IL 60614-6028

Registered Business Phone: (773) 489-6400

Illinois Registration Status: Active and authorized to practice law - Last Registered Year: 2007

Malpractice Insurance:

(Current as of date of registration; consult attorney for further information) No malpractice report received as attorney is not registered.

Public Record of Discipline

and Pending Proceedings: None

http://www.iardc.org/ldetail.asp?id=357243419

Edited September 29, 2007 by ChiangMaiAmerican

[TAWP]

mr_hippo>> I will await your excuse to be sent in a PM.

[mr_hippo]

mr_hippo>> I will await your excuse to be sent in a PM.

I Have nothing to say in a PM that cannot be said in a public forum.

toptuan, please look at your post 788, the implication is that the photo was taken as late as 45 minutes after the crash. Now re-read my post 796 and you will find that it was closer to the time of impact. "No, I'm not talking about the obvious rescue worker in back with a camera.", to which person are you referring to? The one in the orange trousers? Left hand obscured and appears to have nothing in his hand The one next to him with the white T-shirt? He is holding something in his right hand but cannot be certain what it is, it may be a flip top mobile phone. If your Photoshop (or similar) skills are better than mine, enlarge the image about 5 times and remove pixelation.

Disposal of 'walking wounded' from any crash site is not of prime importance - moving them away to a place of relative safety is important and they looked to be in a safe position to me.

ChiangMaiAmerican, and more reading on your part would reveal 'No malpractice report received as attorney is not registered.' and read the first red para in your link which just refers to public and not in camera hearings.

[simon43]

To add my comments:

Photo_0019 shows the remains of the fusalage etc. I have in my possession, 2 videos (each of about 2 minutes) that were taken at the crash-site about 1 hour after the impact. These videos have not been released to the public. They show a similar view to photo_0019, but clearly show that the fusalage still contained a number of bodies and debris which were being removed. So, my opinion is that the photo_0019 was taken after this video was shot, which would make it at least 1 hour after the crash.

To bring everyone up-to-date, here is a photo of the aircraft remains that I took yesterday (Friday). The aircraft is exposed to the elements, unguarded, and outside of the airport security fence... There is a Star-Alliance plane in the background that is parked at the terminal building.

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

mr_hippo>> I will await your excuse to be sent in a PM.

I Have nothing to say in a PM that cannot be said in a public forum.

toptuan, please look at your post 788, the implication is that the photo was taken as late as 45 minutes after the crash. Now re-read my post 796 and you will find that it was closer to the time of impact. "No, I'm not talking about the obvious rescue worker in back with a camera.", to which person are you referring to? The one in the orange trousers? Left hand obscured and appears to have nothing in his hand The one next to him with the white T-shirt? He is holding something in his right hand but cannot be certain what it is, it may be a flip top mobile phone. If your Photoshop (or similar) skills are better than mine, enlarge the image about 5 times and remove pixelation.

Disposal of 'walking wounded' from any crash site is not of prime importance - moving them away to a place of relative safety is important and they looked to be in a safe position to me.

ChiangMaiAmerican, and more reading on your part would reveal 'No malpractice report received as attorney is not registered.' and read the first red para in your link which just refers to public and not in camera hearings.

A little more information for you. From " Rules Governing the Legal Profession and Judiciary in Illinois"

"(e) Disclosure of Malpractice Insurance. As part of registering under this rule, each lawyer shall disclose whether the lawyer has malpractice insurance on the date of the registration, and if so, shall disclose the dates of coverage for the policy. The Administrator may conduct random audits to assure the accuracy of information reported. Each lawyer shall maintain, for a period of seven years from the date the coverage is reported, documentation showing the name of the insurer, the policy number, the amount of coverage and the term of the policy, and shall produce such documentation upon the Administrator's request. The requirements of this subsection shall not apply to attorneys serving in the office of justice, judge, associate judge or magistrate as defined in subparagraph (a)(4) of this rule on the date of registration."

The registration you referred to is under the malpractice insurance section not his registration as an attorney. Malpractice insurance is optional for attorneys in Illinois. However, if an attorney has coverage he is required to disclose it along with the liability limits. Further, if you had paid attention to the line where it is stated, "lllinois Registration Status: Active and authorized to practice law - Last Registered Year: 2007" It would have been evident that Mr. Von Ribbeck is in fact registered and holds a full unrestricted license to practice law in the State of Illinois.

As to your second claim,

"In camera (Latin: "in chamber") is a legal term meaning "in secret". It applies to court cases (or portions thereof) to which the public are not admitted. Certain cases may be ordered to be heard in camera when matters to do with national security are concerned. Otherwise, justice in free countries operates under the principle that in order for justice to be done, justice needs to be seen, and the admission of the public to the court is considered a right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_camera

What matter of national security or any other reason for that matter can you cite would require the withholding of the results of a disciplinary hearing regarding the facts stated in the news article you used to suggest Mr. Von Ribbeck is unethical?

Edited September 29, 2007 by ChiangMaiAmerican

[mr_hippo]

ChiangMaiAmerican, if you are trying to teach me Latin then you are about 50 years too late! Do you consider wikipedia a good reference site?

Simon43, we do not nave sufficient information to say when the two sets of photos were taken or if they were by the same photographer.

Edited September 29, 2007 by mr_hippo

[JetsetBkk]

Phuket crash analysis 'could take 3 years'

It will take at least six months and perhaps three years to fully analyse data from the "black box" flight recorders taken from the plane that crashed at Phuket Airport last month, claiming 90 lives, a senior official said Monday.

Aviation Department Director General Chaisak Angkasuwan said data decoded from the black boxes, sent to the US more than two weeks ago, had already reached Thailand but an analysis of the data will need at least six months to three years, depending on its complexity, reported the state-run Thai News Agency (TNA).

Thai budget airline One-Two-Go flight OG269 crashed while attempting to land at Phuket Airport in a heavy rainstorm on September 16.

Altogether 89 people died immediately in the McDonnell-Douglas MD 82 crash, with the 90th victim dying recently from severe burns in hospital.

At least two foreign passengers have brought legal suits against Boeing Company, the owner of McDonnell Douglas.

Chaisak said that Boeing Co would be involved by analysing the data pertaining to the aircraft's operation system, a process that could take at least two months.

The One-Two-Go aircraft broke into two sections before bursting into flames in both wings and the body of the plane, after it smashed into an embankment after skidding off the runway. (dpa)

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=122227

I suppose it could take forever if you don't want people to find out what happened.

[keemapoot]

As Simon43 has reported, I suppose it doesn't help much to have the remains of the wreck exposed to the elements and pilferage, without any security. This just creates more plausible deniability later I guess.

[meemiathai]

3 years?

That is fast! I thought it would take decades!

[Tony Clifton]

3 years...

I thought this was the way to set plane wrecks aside for investigation.

[MrOzark]

I don't need 3 years to decide I'm never flying that airline again -

including under a new name. I lived in Thailand 3 years.

I know what goes on.

Caveat emptor and all that jazz.

[Felt 35]

analysis of the data will need at least six months to three years, depending on its complexity, reported the state-run Thai News Agency (TNA).

Surat Thani again!

suppose it could take forever if you don't want people to find out what happened.

Exactly and as usual here.

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

Phuket crash analysis 'could take 3 years'

At least two foreign passengers have brought legal suits against Boeing Company, the owner of McDonnell Douglas.

More disinformation. At least one if not both of those filing lawsuits have been previously reported to be Thai not foreign.

Edited October 2, 2007 by ChiangMaiAmerican