Flight OG269: At Least 88 Bodies Found At Phuket Airport Crash Site

[zzdocxx]

Sad.

Just list to our member Simon being interviewed on BBC.

Would you mind posting a link? I would like to see that.

God bless them.

[elsie]

I have a friend who are pilot for that Cie and he fly on the same type of aircraft, i can't join it !!! do you know the name of the F/O or if he is french ?

F/O was Thai.

[colino]

from the uk embassey

Thailand

This advice has been reviewed and reissued with an amendment to the Summary (Phuket Air Crash). The overall level of the advice has not changed.> > > > > >

• Orient Thai 1-2 Go Flight number OG269 from Bangkok to Phuket crashed on landing at Phuket airport at around 1720 local time on Sunday 16 September 2007. 123 people are believed to have been on board. Phuket Airport is closed. We do not know when it will re-open.
  
• An FCO enquiry line has been set up for families who believe that their relatives might have been on flight OG269. The number is +44 (0) 207 008 0000.
  
• The Orient Thai 1-2 Go airline have set up an emergency enquiry service, which can be contacted on the following numbers:
  

Phuket Office of 1-2 Go - landline:

00 66 76 351 517

00 66 76 351 090

00 66 76 351 460

00 66 76 351 428

00 66 76 351 144Bangkok Office of 1-2 Go - landline:

00 66 2 535 7662

00 66 2 504 3227

00 66 2 504 3641Phuket Office of 1-2 Go – mobile:

00 66 85 1554 622

00 66 85 9115 092

00 66 85 9183 422

00 66 85 9114 297

00 66 85 9113 438

Callers should be aware that the pressure on these lines is very heavy and that the operators first language is not English.

[fongvin]

I refer to post #130 where the postee provides a passenger manifest which I personally believe should not be posted in this way. And, their is no official, or media source attached to this information.

The version on #130 is from The Bangkok Post, LINK, the scanned version of the full Manifest is sourced from a Scandinavian website previously identified in the thread. www.scandasia.com

Regards

No disrespect to the above two sources of information but one would not consider these as official source, especially in a situation like this. One should look at their reporting lines .........................

Regardless, their is a time and a place for providing this type of information, and a public website and forum is hardly it.

[elkangorito]

Updated list of injured passengers in Phuket as following:

Bangkok-Phuket Hospital

1.Mr Gilles Thibud - France

2.Mr Lamere Maurice, 23 - France

3.Mr Inntrn Burket, 23 - Ireland

Vachira Phuket Hospital

1. Sawitree Dani

2. Bare Bercom

etc etc etc

This is one thing that I don't like about the media in certain countries...sick, injured or dead people are shown openly. The world can see all their 'bits'. Even details of injuries are given. I just hope that I am never involved in one of these catastrophes. I would be highly annoyed that somebody took advantage of my incapacities & invaded my privacy in this manner.

I did find the publication of the passenger manifest on this, a public website & forum, quite disturbing. This information should be handled by the correct authorities and not for public consumption.

Thank you for stating that. I was beginning to believe I was the only one.

You're not alone on this .

[Chayaphum]

How can be this......i think thailand has a law,

that says, it is not allowed for a non thai citizen

to fly an airplane inbound???

Incorrect.

That is the most rediculous thing I ever read (until I read the rest of your post!).

Do you really think that EVERY airline in the world has to employ a Thai pilot so they can land/transit in Thailand?

Think about what you are going say before you open your mouth (or add forum posts).

Yes, that was a daft thing for the poster to say RJJ, but I bit my tongue.

I think he's mixed up with a law I fell foul of when trying to import my helicopter into Phuket. No non-Thai may act as P1 on a commercial Thai (HS) registered aircraft. Helicopters are worse: no non-Thai may even be issued a rotary licence. I could not covert mine. I was told I would have to employ Thai pilots, and could not fly even non-revenue or positioning flights myself. I gave up.

So, if this rule applies to Thai airlines, as I'm sure it does, this airline should have Thai nationals as captains, so I can't see how he could legally have been an Indonesian. Not that it really matters since all are presumably trained to the same standard.

The only possible get-out if no local pilots are available, which would only happen with rare a/c types.

Dear RJJ from Australia,

please be careful what do you write here...

i try to be friendly, not indecently same you.

I do not mean, that every airline in this world ho have flights to thailand

must have a thai-citizen pilot, do you understand this?

I read before something that airlines from (registered in TH) thailand who

have just flights inside this country must have a thai-pilot, only this....no more!

Because the government or the army are scary, that pilots from other countrys

could see some secret areas/buildings from the army or navy of thailand, do you understand this?

I just talk about that, maybe somebody know something more.

But please correct me, if i am wrong....maybe thats only for thai-airways?

thanks for an intelligent answer or reaction.....

and a little bit more friendly, maybe?

Dschook dee khrap

Chayaphum

[wpcoe]

Airlines have routinely assumed the role of notifying next of kin of crash victims, unless local regulations require that law enforcement or other government agency do so.

Say you went shopping and while you were out, Somchai up the moo bahn sees the passenger manifest on the internet and notices your sister's name. He can't tell you until you're home, but such big news will spread across the moo bahn like wildfire. You come home and a neighbor says: "Say, your sister was on a plane than just crashed. Do you think she's dead?"

Or, a scenario in the office while you are out at a meeting, where after seeing your son's name on the manifest on the internet someone in the office calls the media and they are awaiting to interview you when you return to the office and register your first reactions on live TV.

How would you rather discover the loss of a loved one, from a professional (probably with grief counseling experience), or by being the last to know from a breathless office gossip? Shouldn't the victim's families be the FIRST to know, if at all possible?

Without exception there are special phone numbers posted immediately after a crash for information on survivors and victims.

That's why I expressed a bit of shock that the manifests were made public before there were any chance the airline/government officials could properly notify the victim's families.

All that I wrote above was from my western perspective. I simply must realize that I'm not in Kansas anymore.

[edited for a bit of added clarity (I hope)]

Edited September 16, 2007 by wpcoe

[A_Traveller]

The corollary of that is family or friends living on the other side of the world wondering if you are on that plane, because your schedule is flexible and you 'might be going to Phuket'.

To be honest once its out, then you can't stuff it back into the metaphorical bottle. Increasingly the 'withholding the names until the next of kin have been informed' is difficult to do, even in the west. I've heard of tabloid doorstepping of family and friends in such situations. However, in an environment where data, which in other places might be considered private {or even, disclosure prurient} is often splashed across the front pages with enthusiasm it is not too surprising that the manifest becomes public property. By the by my understanding is that some senior Thai's also perished on the flight, so the manifest issue is not just a foreigner one.

A difficult judgement call to make, I agree.

Regards

[Jingjok]

... Because the government or the army are scary, that pilots from other countrys

could see some secret areas/buildings from the army or navy of thailand, do you understand this? ...

Oh, now I understand. In my naivety, and in a world where the Americans and their friends can clock your face and your car's number plate from space, that it was only about local job protection. How foolish of me.

Edited September 16, 2007 by Jingjok

[A_Traveller]

It should be noted that the Aviation Act specifies that any aerial photography requires explicit permissions, Section 23, equally there are imprecations about Personnel Section 44 that they must be of Thai nationality {though there is a get-out within Section 42 and by Ministerial permissions}.

Regards

/edit Personnel//

Edited September 16, 2007 by A_Traveller

[wpcoe]

The corollary of that is family or friends living on the other side of the world wondering if you are on that plane, because your schedule is flexible and you 'might be going to Phuket'.

And my choice to not keep my family/friends up to date on my plans would threrefore outweigh the right to privacy and dignity of the rest of the passengers' families and friends? I am not in Kansas. I am not in Kansas. I am not in Kansas.

The world has changed so rapidly with new technology, including the internet, and this is just one example of how systems that have been in place and functioned properly for decades, are now compromised, if not thrown out the window completely.

OK, I'm finished. No need to continue this side discussion and detract any further from the enormous tragedy that occurred in Phuket yesterday afternoon.

(When did I become this ornery old fart?)

[onethailand]

Although I understand how some things might want to be kept private, and certainly that is what the norm is in Western countries, in this case I happen to agree with A_Traveller.

Someone pointed out earlier that Phuket got bashed for not releasing info quickly during the tsunami, and that this appears to be the exact opposite.

When tsunami information from Phuket was not available, the result was tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of people clogging up the information system, whether they be phones or Internet. The end result was that no one could get information, especially those people who needed it most.

In this case, information was made readily available in a public manner - and as a result phone lines "ought" to be less clogged, and certainly information on the Net is available much more quickly. Obviously critical information is being withheld, such as whose bodies have been identified - while those who were injured, well, I think the immediate reaction of friends and family is "Thank God they're safe". If this information was NOT available... how high do you think their anxiety levels would be?

Obviously the news does not mean that people who haven't been identified or located in a hospital are dead. Yes, you can draw that conclusion if you like - but I think it's safe to say that people will still hold out hope. And of course people who aren't on the manifest at all - well, their friends and family already know they weren't on the plane and they will stop slamming all possible sources of information trying to find out more details.

During the tsunami, many people criticized us for having photos of bodies or artifacts - but these typically were people who were just disgusted and had no missing friends or relatives, rather than relatives worrying about how their loved ones were being shown. Of course, if one was identified, someone would let us know and we'd take it off the site immediately. But the information was necessary and the Phuket servers, as mentioned above, were simply overloaded.

A line has to be drawn here, to be sure. But in my opinion, up to now, I think they've done the best they can. I'm sure they also realize the sensitive nature of some of the information but again, one has to draw a line somewhere between sensitivity and reality.

[geriatrickid]

I refer to post #130 where the postee provides a passenger manifest which I personally believe should not be posted in this way. And, their is no official, or media source attached to this information.

The version on #130 is from The Bangkok Post, LINK, the scanned version of the full Manifest is sourced from a Scandinavian website previously identified in the thread. www.scandasia.com

Regards

Since I posted it, I accept responsibility. As the posts were being made fast & furious by others, I did not see that the manifest had been posted several times previously (with the source cited). I neglected to attach the source and then tried to put the link in but it failed to attach properly due to my ineptness.

In respect to your objections as to the publication of the manifest, I disagree, but in hindsight should have just said, go look at the url and avoided responsibility in that manner. As well;

1. It was already public knowledge and there had been a specific request.

2. There are some people that may not be able to contact the airline or the embassy or are not prepared to wait several hours for a response. This was intended for them.

3. There was a designation for those that had survived and were identified. If you are prepared to go through an agonizing wait for confirmation, so be it. However, there are those that would like to know asap. I have been in that position previously and am therefore biased. You were not obliged to read it. The biggest complaint from previous air incidents is that families say the notifications take too long. If a family member is upset, then I will apologize to that family member.

4. The principal reason that such information is not quickly released in some nations is the fear of litigation from plaintiffs alleging emotional distress. The incident occurred in a public area and there is a public interest, even if disquieting for some. The manifest was released as information only with no commentary or pandering to voyeurism.

[distortedlink]

I have always been terrified of flying and somehow managed to switch myself off to worrying whilst airborne. Have also been in a near miss on a flight over Paris 5 years ago. An absolutely horrific feeling wondering if you are coming to die or not at any second.

My deepest sympathy to the families and friends of the deceased

Edited September 16, 2007 by distortedlink

[troy04]

WORLD AIRLINER with live footage and updates

http://world-airliner.com/smf/index.php?topic=227.0

Hi, unfortunately your link requires member login! Can't be opened.

[cobra]

I guess from what we do know, albeit tentative, there appears nothing sinister so far, those wild cards of weather and human fallibility will always be with us.

My joy and relief for those who survived, and my heart felt condolences for those who did not.

Wishing a speedy recovery (both emotionally and physically) for those fortunate.

[cuddleypete]

My thoughts go out to all those involved and their families

sad day

pete

[markus]

Does anyone know the type of plane?

McDonnell Douglas MD82.

All more than 20 years old.

[asd]

"May you rest in peace"

Tears in the rain

Pattin' the pain

Maybe she'd come back

If she could see me cry

She thinks I'm so strong

Oh, but she's so wrong

She just couldn't see these tears in the rain

Now, I'll regret that moment

Cuz I didn't let her know

How much I still loved her

[intumult]

Having only just seen the footage on the UK news it looked horrific.

Condolences to those who have lost people in this tragic incident.

It must be even more horrifying for those seeing such pictures when they have a relative or friend who has died in the plane crash. I can see those pictures haunting them for the rest of their lives

[Virgil]

Does anyone know the type of plane?

Oops! I was thinking of Air Asia for a minute ... Here's a link to 1 2 Go Fleet info. http://www.fly12go.com/en/about_us/fleet_info.shtml

While the MD-82 is an old plane, EVERYONE should be aware that the three biggest causes of air disasters are human maintenance (pilot or other), poor maintenance, and poor weather. I don't think they are going to find that the age of the aircraft played a significant part in the accident.

Virgil, Out!

Edited September 17, 2007 by Virgil

[madjbs]

It was not a Boing 737

It was a McDonnell Douglas MD82

[Virgil]

It was not a Boing 737

It was a McDonnell Douglas MD82

Yeah, Yeah ... I was thinking of Air Asia and corrected my post as soon as I saw the footage. MD-82 .... I remember when airlines around the world were ordering the DC-9 like they were hamburgers .... !

Virgil, Out!

[stickman]

I have mixed feelings about the passenger manifest not being kept confidential until notification of next of kin of both deceased and survivors. I highly doubt a US airline would make such information publicly available so early after an incident.

Yep, you're not the only one. That the passenger manifest was available so fast - and available on the website of the largest English language newspaper - along with details about those passengers who survived is awfully perturbing. It doesn't take a genius to realise what happened to those souls whose names did not appear as receiving treatment at a hospital.

[NanLaew]

Just amazes me that on CNN this story's importance warrants Breaking News status, yet on BBC World it gets 3 minutes and the normal schedule.

RG

Yes, the very same CNN that had Paris Hilton's return to jail as 'Breaking News'.

[Supaporn]

Bottom line is that there is alot of second guessing as to what happened and why. That may not ever be known based on reporting capabilities and the disticnt possibilty of cover up.

Maybe it would be best that people just read the news and state FACTS if you must say anything at al

Information I posted was in response to questions asked on aviation from a member. The facts are not known apart from the weather conditions reported.

Pilot ability of course varies but all are governed by legal weather limits for the aircraft. Orient Thai fuel policies will be governed by the Thai CAD and if acceptable to the CAD should be safe. There is no reason fuel or lack of it on this route should be an issue.

As you say we will know eventually and should not second guess. I personally have always chosen not to fly with this particular airline as do a lot of my colleagues.

The information you posted - in a perfect world, or even in a country where standards are adhered to - would be quite accurate, I will give you that.

Pilot ability has nothing to do with governed legal limits for the pilot or the aircraft. OX fuel policies, though one might think governed by 'CAD' would regularly be ignored -as well as a myriad of other regulations. A couple of well placed Baht can take care of that quite handily.

The sad part of this tyragedy is that Khun Udom (owner/CEO) was told on more than one occasion that this sort of tragedy was going to happen because of his and OX's policies. Now- he, and those concerned at the Thai DCA, have blood on thier hands as far as I am concerned.

You and your colleagues are quite right to have made the choices you have - not to fly this particular airline. Sad that other did not have the knowledge to make that same decision.

[Supaporn]

did a full medical recently for updating pilots licence and there was a thai hiso who could not hear a thing in the hearing test room so they moved him to another room and amazingly passed because supposingly it is rude to fail them.

No wonder people die with thai pilots and staff. No wonder.

i trust you reported this incident to the relevant authorities

Like who???? TiT!

[sonnyJ]

I was just watching TV Ch.3 News they had names of the survivors "I guess" running on the bottom. They got until 16. and then Sawasdii, news finished. way to go Thailand media.

EDIT:

Now they started from a new angle.

Edited September 17, 2007 by sonnyJ

[Burr]

[quote name='Supaporn'Now- he, and those concerned at the Thai DCA, have blood on thier hands as far as I am concerned.

You and your colleagues are quite right to have made the choices you have - not to fly this particular airline. Sad that other did not have the knowledge to make that same decision.

Do you think they care for one second????

[cdnvic]

Now- he, and those concerned at the Thai DCA, have blood on thier hands as far as I am concerned.

You and your colleagues are quite right to have made the choices you have - not to fly this particular airline. Sad that other did not have the knowledge to make that same decision.

Do you think they care for one second????

My experience here over the past couple years is that you can warn people about certain airlines, and even show them hard data and expert opinion to back it up, but the bottom line for them is all too often saving 1000baht.