Obtaining Tor Tor 3 For Small Condo Purchase

[youngkiwi]

I am looking at purchasing a small investment condo in Bangkok, around 300,000 baht.

My question is regarding remitting funds into Thailand by electronic transfer to obtain the TOR TOR 3 form. I believe the TOR TOR 3 is now called a Foreign Exchange Transaction form but I have heard that to obtain one, one must transfer not less than $20,000 USD. The issue here is that the condo I am looking to purchase is worth less than $20,000 USD, so can I still obtain a TOR TOR 3 form?

Advice appreciated from people who have been in a similiar position. I'm concerned about remitting the money from abroad and not being able to register the condo in my name.

Edited September 19, 2007 by youngkiwi

[alyx]

I am looking at purchasing a small investment condo in Bangkok, around 300,000 baht.

My question is regarding remitting funds into Thailand by electronic transfer to obtain the TOR TOR 3 form. I believe the TOR TOR 3 is now called a Foreign Exchange Transaction form but I have heard that to obtain one, one must transfer not less than $20,000 USD. The issue here is that the condo I am looking to purchase is worth less than $20,000 USD, so can I still obtain a TOR TOR 3 form?

Advice appreciated from people who have been in a similiar position. I'm concerned about remitting the money from abroad and not being able to register the condo in my name.

Sorry I cannot be of any help as I am quite sure that the bank will only issue that kind of documents for 20,000 USD over but I am quite sure that there is a way as I had read something about it (which I can t retrieve): go to the Bangkok Bank Silom main Branch second floor (foreign transaction) or any other big bank for the matter and I think you will get your information

[Khun Bob]

I thought the main reason for having a TT3 or ForEx Form was to be able to send the cash back out of Thailand if and when you sell the condo and you want to move the money out of Thailand

If a foreigner has made their money in Thailand surely they can still but and own a condo in their name so long as they dont fall foul of the 49% foreign ownership of the building rule...

Be interested to know which buildings/projects you are looking at...

Edited September 19, 2007 by Khun Bob

[Khun Bob]

Gee - I'm glad you brought this up - it does appear to be a requirements and here is some info I got from the samuiforsale website. Also, somewhere I have a copy of the actual condo act in English - it can be downloaded from a Thai Gov website - but not sure where it is at the mo. In the following text it appears that the statement :

"In order to obtain an FET form, the amount of money must be above US$ 20,000; lesser amounts require the purchaser to obtain a credit note or credit advice from the bank. " is relevant - will your Thai bank issue a credit advice or credit note for the transfer - and importantly can you specify on the transfer what the purpose of the money is... I'll be talking to my Thai bank - Kasikorn and see what they have to say.

FET form (foreign exchange transaction form)

Under the 1991 Condominium Act, non-residents who purchase condominium units must transfer the funds to pay for the unit from overseas, coming into Thailand as foreign currency. Purchasers need to obtain a Foreign Exchange Transaction 'FET' certificate for each payment from the beneficiary bank, and all these certificates must be shown to the Land department in order to register the condominium.

When the money is sent to Thailand, the purchaser needs to include in the transfer instruction that the purpose is to buy a condominium unit. Banks will only give an 'FET' certificates for amounts generally over US$ 20,000 (this amount depends on the bank). For amounts below this, purchasers must obtain a credit note or advice from the bank.

If the foreign purchaser has Permanent Residence, they can purchase the condominium in Thai Baht (no need to use FET form).

Transferring money

1 - The money must be T/T (Telex-Transferred), with a document identifying the name of the purchaser in the form of either the sender's or the receiver's name. For example:

Mr. Smith wants to buy a condominium in Thailand. He has his own account at an overseas bank to buy the condominium, he has to instruct the overseas bank to issue the document in his name as the sender of that amount to his (savings) account in Thailand, (or) it is possible for the buyer to ask a third party to transfer the money for him to buy the property by identifying himself as the receiver.

2 - The purchaser has to include the transfer instruction indicating that the purpose of this money is to buy a condominium unit.

The bank that receives money in foreign currency will issue the document (FET form) which contains the following information:

• The transferred amount in foreign currency

• The transferred amount in Thai Baht

• The name of money sender

• The name of money receiver

• The purpose of transferring

Normally in the transfer process, the purchaser has to instruct the gateway bank to identify the name of the sender to be the same as the receiver's. The Land Department will accept the name of purchaser to be either sender or receiver of the transferred money.

The amount of money must be equal or higher than the selling price declared to the Land Department. In order to obtain an FET form, the amount of money must be above US$ 20,000; lesser amounts require the purchaser to obtain a credit note or credit advice from the bank.

Remark:

If the money receiver is an individual but wants to put the unit in the name of two people, the land department will allow them to do so.

Why do we need to use an FET form?

1 - Because the Bank of Thailand needs to control the flow of foreign currency, every single baht must have a source and a reason, and the Land Department must perform in accordance with this regulation. By this restriction, every foreign buyer must transfer money from abroad.

2- Non-residents who sell the condominium and transfer the money out of country do not have to pay the remittance tax (normally the tax is around 30%).

3 - In case of transferring money out of the country, the tax-free amount is determined by the initial amount transferred.

Non-resident workers

Non-resident workers who earn a salary in Thailand can use Thai Baht to buy a condominium, but you will need to ask the bank for an account to issue a document to guarantee that this money is withdrawn from a non-residential accounts.

Can the non-residents get a mortgage?

1 - If non-residents work in Thailand and have appropriate documents (a work permit or a long-term contract), some banks in Thailand will approve a mortgage loan.

2 - Non-residents who do not work in Thailand are ineligible.

3 - Due to clause 1, non-residents must acquire an FET form.

In order to apply for a mortgage, there are a few policies, terms, and conditions among various banks and financial institutes. Generally, the maximum credit limit for foreigners is approximately 50% of appraised value, which will be evaluated by a bank as a part of the application process.

The money must be transferred from overseas in any foreign currency. This amount must not be less than the selling price because the purchaser needs to obtain a document named FET form or a credit advice for each payment from the beneficiary bank and this certificate has to be shown to the Land department in order to register the condominium.

Normally, the appraised value is lower than the selling price. If the purchaser wants to cover the selling price, the borrower must provide the remaining between selling price and mortgage loan. For example, suppose a condominium unit costs Baht 5 Million and the mortgage loan is approved at Baht 3 Million, the remaining (Baht 2 Million) may be deducted from transferred money from overseas or funds that already exist in Thai Baht.

For example:

If a Condo unit costs 5,000,000 baht the borrower needs to transfer the full 5 million from overseas and deposit the money in his/her Thai bank account until the transfer of the ownership is finished. After that, the money can be transferred back in full or can be used to pay the outstanding balance of the transaction, depending on the purchaser arrangement.

Edited September 19, 2007 by Khun Bob

[youngkiwi]

Thanks for the info. I guess the question now is whether or not anyone has had experience with getting a foreign exchange transaction form or credit note from their bank for amounts transferred of less than $20,000 USD.

Surely someone has struct this before. Interested to hear of any further comments or advice.

[Khun Bob]

youngkiwi - which buildings/projects you are looking at ?

[youngkiwi]

Several different buildings in central Bangkok. There are hundreds of them. Just look at all the small condo's in the low end developments. Many of which are structurally sound and as long as the common areas are maintained, just need an internal refit.

[ZZZ]

If you have over $20,000 that you can transfer that would be the easiest way. The money you transfer to your account is not locked in any way for any specific purpose. You can transfer $20,000 then use $10,000 to pay for the condo and the rest for living costs or send it back out again if you don't need it in Thailand.

[pkrv]

If you have over $20,000 that you can transfer that would be the easiest way. The money you transfer to your account is not locked in any way for any specific purpose. You can transfer $20,000 then use $10,000 to pay for the condo and the rest for living costs or send it back out again if you don't need it in Thailand.

Sounds like good advice to me especially as care must be taken to transfer USD (in your case) to your Thai bank, who will convert for you. Otherwise you will be hit by the on-shore off-shore exchange rate issue (i.e. you will be paying an extra 5-10% for your condo). See here for further information. Of course not knowing what to send, because you will not know the rate you will be given means you must take the precaution of over sending, specifically noted in the reason for transfer, for purchase of your condominium.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=127371

[samran]

Several different buildings in central Bangkok. There are hundreds of them. Just look at all the small condo's in the low end developments. Many of which are structurally sound and as long as the common areas are maintained, just need an internal refit.

what do they rent out for?

[youngkiwi]

Some good advice, thanks.

[PattayaParent]

Some good advice, thanks.

You can't get a TT3 (FET) for amounts less than $20k but you can get a letter from the bank saying that the money was brought in from overseas and stating the amount and the exchange rate. It's called a Bai Rap Rong.

[redwood13]

Some good advice, thanks.

You can't get a TT3 (FET) for amounts less than $20k but you can get a letter from the bank saying that the money was brought in from overseas and stating the amount and the exchange rate. It's called a Bai Rap Rong.

Yes, a friend here in Pattaya obtained a bank letter in lieu of the FET form earlier this year when he bought a shell condo for around 600K baht.

-redwood

[ZZZ]

If you have over $20,000 that you can transfer that would be the easiest way. The money you transfer to your account is not locked in any way for any specific purpose. You can transfer $20,000 then use $10,000 to pay for the condo and the rest for living costs or send it back out again if you don't need it in Thailand.

Sounds like good advice to me especially as care must be taken to transfer USD (in your case) to your Thai bank, who will convert for you. Otherwise you will be hit by the on-shore off-shore exchange rate issue (i.e. you will be paying an extra 5-10% for your condo). See here for further information. Of course not knowing what to send, because you will not know the rate you will be given means you must take the precaution of over sending, specifically noted in the reason for transfer, for purchase of your condominium.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=127371

Actually the exchange rate is not really an issue as you MUST transfer dollars (or other foreign currency) to be exchanged to Baht by your bank IN Thailand. If you tell your foreign bank to transfer $20,000 in Baht to your Thai bank you will not be able to buy a condo, you MUST transfer a foreign currency in to Thailand.

Also, you must make sure that you have a note on your transfer document saying that the funds are for purchase of condominium.

[pkrv]

If you have over $20,000 that you can transfer that would be the easiest way. The money you transfer to your account is not locked in any way for any specific purpose. You can transfer $20,000 then use $10,000 to pay for the condo and the rest for living costs or send it back out again if you don't need it in Thailand.

Sounds like good advice to me especially as care must be taken to transfer USD (in your case) to your Thai bank, who will convert for you. Otherwise you will be hit by the on-shore off-shore exchange rate issue (i.e. you will be paying an extra 5-10% for your condo). See here for further information. Of course not knowing what to send, because you will not know the rate you will be given means you must take the precaution of over sending, specifically noted in the reason for transfer, for purchase of your condominium.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=127371

Actually the exchange rate is not really an issue as you MUST transfer dollars (or other foreign currency) to be exchanged to Baht by your bank IN Thailand. If you tell your foreign bank to transfer $20,000 in Baht to your Thai bank you will not be able to buy a condo, you MUST transfer a foreign currency in to Thailand.

Also, you must make sure that you have a note on your transfer document saying that the funds are for purchase of condominium.

The funds must come from off-shore true (and I will shortly have to deal with this), you have missed the point on on-shore off shore rate, it is a massive problem - funds have not in the past been required to be transferred in any particular currency however from the UK this is normally done in Thai Baht, but now must be done in GBP in Thailand, just from overseas.

Research

Edited September 21, 2007 by pkrv

[Khun Bob]

Some good new too PattayaParent

Could you mention which Thai bank this was and do you know if you could get hold of a copy of the letter ? (please obsure any personal details). I ask this so I could show this as an example of what I would like to the Thai bank when I would like to get hold of one and if I am having difficulties there.

Thanks in advance..

Some good advice, thanks.

You can't get a TT3 (FET) for amounts less than $20k but you can get a letter from the bank saying that the money was brought in from overseas and stating the amount and the exchange rate. It's called a Bai Rap Rong.

[ZZZ]

If you have over $20,000 that you can transfer that would be the easiest way. The money you transfer to your account is not locked in any way for any specific purpose. You can transfer $20,000 then use $10,000 to pay for the condo and the rest for living costs or send it back out again if you don't need it in Thailand.

Sounds like good advice to me especially as care must be taken to transfer USD (in your case) to your Thai bank, who will convert for you. Otherwise you will be hit by the on-shore off-shore exchange rate issue (i.e. you will be paying an extra 5-10% for your condo). See here for further information. Of course not knowing what to send, because you will not know the rate you will be given means you must take the precaution of over sending, specifically noted in the reason for transfer, for purchase of your condominium.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=127371

Actually the exchange rate is not really an issue as you MUST transfer dollars (or other foreign currency) to be exchanged to Baht by your bank IN Thailand. If you tell your foreign bank to transfer $20,000 in Baht to your Thai bank you will not be able to buy a condo, you MUST transfer a foreign currency in to Thailand.

Also, you must make sure that you have a note on your transfer document saying that the funds are for purchase of condominium.

The funds must come from off-shore true (and I will shortly have to deal with this), you have missed the point on on-shore off shore rate, it is a massive problem - funds have not in the past been required to be transferred in any particular currency however from the UK this is normally done in Thai Baht, but now must be done in GBP in Thailand, just from overseas.

Research

I did not miss the point on on-shore off-shore rates, there has always been the requirement that you MUST transfer a foreign currency to Thailand if you want to buy a condo. The exchange to Baht must be done in Thailand. The whole idea with this is to bring in foreign currency to Thailand, not Baht. Anyway, this is what you are suggesting anyway so you you are correct.

[shochu]

I am suprised how many times this very same topic comes up.

Not all countries can transfer their currencies directly to thailand so this requirement that it has to be a foreign currency is not true. The funds must come from your account - meaning in the same name as the name of the pruchaser of the condo - and it must come from outside the country - so if you just transfered some money out of thaliand and then tried to transfer it back - perhaps some red flags will flash. I transfer in thai baht from where I live becasue it is cheaper for me to do so - and I have confirmed this is okay with the man in charge at bangkok bank.

And you do not have to transfer a minimum $20,000U.S. at one time. If you read the above info carefully, and based on what I also know - it states that the you need this amount - but nowhere does it state that it has to be trasnfered at one time. And this is only if you want this particular form. There are other documents you can obtain. This I also confirmed from the man in charge at bangkok bank! How else do people purchase condo's that cost less?

[Khun Bob]

Care to say what the "other documents" are and, ideally, provide some examples ? This would be very useful for many people.

And you do not have to transfer a minimum $20,000U.S. at one time. If you read the above info carefully, and based on what I also know - it states that the you need this amount - but nowhere does it state that it has to be trasnfered at one time. And this is only if you want this particular form. There are other documents you can obtain. This I also confirmed from the man in charge at bangkok bank! How else do people purchase condo's that cost less?

Also PattayaParent on Bai Rap Rong :

Could you mention which Thai bank this was and do you know if you could get hold of a copy of the letter ? (please obsure any personal details). I ask this so I could show this as an example of what I would like to the Thai bank when I would like to get hold of one and if I am having difficulties there.

Thanks in advance

[shochu]

bangkok bank

I suggest you get in touch with the man in charge at the main branch of bangkok bank.

I was told I will be getting an official bank letter that will confirm the funds were transfered from my bank overseas to my bank in thailand - and this would be sufficient - along with copies of my transfer documents with the carefully written words that state it is for a specific condo purchase.

Make sure you keep and bring all documents that prove all the transfers and info to verify all of the above.

[Khun Bob]

Thanks for this

Could you say what the main man's name is ?

Getting a letter from the bank will be great - do you know what the letter is called ? Also, would you be able to post a copy of the letter for many peoples benefit (please obcsure any personal information)...

Thanks

KB

bangkok bank

I suggest you get in touch with the man in charge at the main branch of bangkok bank.

I was told I will be getting an official bank letter that will confirm the funds were transfered from my bank overseas to my bank in thailand - and this would be sufficient - along with copies of my transfer documents with the carefully written words that state it is for a specific condo purchase.

Make sure you keep and bring all documents that prove all the transfers and info to verify all of the above.

Edited September 24, 2007 by Khun Bob

[Khun Bob]

Thanks for this

Could you say what the main man's name is ?

Getting a letter from the bank will be great - do you know what the latter is called ? Also , would you be able to post a copy of the letter for many people benefit (please obsure any personal information)...

Thanks

KB

bangkok bank

I suggest you get in touch with the man in charge at the main branch of bangkok bank.

I was told I will be getting an official bank letter that will confirm the funds were transfered from my bank overseas to my bank in thailand - and this would be sufficient - along with copies of my transfer documents with the carefully written words that state it is for a specific condo purchase.

Make sure you keep and bring all documents that prove all the transfers and info to verify all of the above.

[PattayaParent]

Some good new too PattayaParent

Could you mention which Thai bank this was and do you know if you could get hold of a copy of the letter ? (please obsure any personal details). I ask this so I could show this as an example of what I would like to the Thai bank when I would like to get hold of one and if I am having difficulties there.

Thanks in advance..

Some good advice, thanks.

You can't get a TT3 (FET) for amounts less than $20k but you can get a letter from the bank saying that the money was brought in from overseas and stating the amount and the exchange rate. It's called a Bai Rap Rong.

I got mine at the Kasikorn Bank but needed to ask the Manager as the staff at the desk had no idea.

My mate has obtained his from Bangkok Bank.

You'll have to get it from the bank into which you transfer the funds but at least teh manager should understand if you tell him/her Bai Rap Rong and show your passbook with credit.

[brewsterbudgen]

I have just come back from The Bangkok Bank having tried to get the FET certificate for my condo purchase. I transferred 62,000 GBP from my Lloyds-TSB account to my Bangkok Bank account, using the Lloyds-TSB International Moneymover SWIFT form. I stipulated that the transfer should be in pounds sterling, however, the money was received in Thai baht (3,914,742 baht).

Bangkok Bank have issued me with a letter (in Thai) confirming that the amount, in baht, was transferred from Lloyds-TSB, UK and is for the purpose of buying a condominium. I was told to show this to the Land Department when I complete the transfer (this Friday). Is a FET certficate? I presume not. If not, will the letter be sufficient to satisfy the Land Department?

Thanks.

[pkrv]

I have just come back from The Bangkok Bank having tried to get the FET certificate for my condo purchase. I transferred 62,000 GBP from my Lloyds-TSB account to my Bangkok Bank account, using the Lloyds-TSB International Moneymover SWIFT form. I stipulated that the transfer should be in pounds sterling, however, the money was received in Thai baht (3,914,742 baht).

Bangkok Bank have issued me with a letter (in Thai) confirming that the amount, in baht, was transferred from Lloyds-TSB, UK and is for the purpose of buying a condominium. I was told to show this to the Land Department when I complete the transfer (this Friday). Is a FET certficate? I presume not. If not, will the letter be sufficient to satisfy the Land Department?

Thanks.

Sorry I make that a rate of 63.14 (GBPTHB=) You have been given the offshore rate, I am not in the office at this moment but the onshore rate is something more like 68.79. You need to take this up with Bangkok Bank - please let us know of the outcome - this is what I feared, if we club together we may all be able to assist each other.

Bangkok Banks onshore rates can be found here : (kindly stolen from a contributor to Thaivias thread http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=127371 )

http://www.bangkokbank.com/Bangkok+Bank+Th...es/FX+Rates.htm

Edited September 24, 2007 by pkrv

[Maestro]

...Is a FET certificate?...

See here for an example of the Foreign Exchange Transaction Form (available for inward remittances equivalent to minimum USD 20,000)

See here for an example of a credit note or credit advice from the receiving bank in Thailand (available for inward remittances of any amount. If you need it for official purposes, get the bank to sign it)

--

Maestro

[brewsterbudgen]

...Is a FET certificate?...

See here for an example of the Foreign Exchange Transaction Form (available for inward remittances equivalent to minimum USD 20,000)

See here for an example of a credit note or credit advice from the receiving bank in Thailand (available for inward remittances of any amount. If you need it for official purposes, get the bank to sign it)

--

Maestro

Thanks. I definitely don't have a FET, but the letter/receipt looks the same as your example. I'm buying my condo through Sunbeltasia and I faxed them a copy of the bank's letter. They've just called me and told me it's OK - they've checked with the Land Department. So, I don't need a FET. Does this sound right?

[brewsterbudgen]

Sorry I make that a rate of 63.14 (GBPTHB=) You have been given the offshore rate, I am not in the office at this moment but the onshore rate is something more like 68.79. You need to take this up with Bangkok Bank - please let us know of the outcome - this is what I feared, if we club together we may all be able to assist each other.

I will try to take it up with the Bangkok Bank but my branch (Emporium) are fairly clueless! The receipt I received for the transfer doesn't even show an exchange rate. Where do you suggest I start? Presumably it's going to be difficult to chage the situation now, but I'd cerrtainly like to try.

Edited September 24, 2007 by brewsterbudgen

[pkrv]

Sorry I make that a rate of 63.14 (GBPTHB=) You have been given the offshore rate, I am not in the office at this moment but the onshore rate is something more like 68.79. You need to take this up with Bangkok Bank - please let us know of the outcome - this is what I feared, if we club together we may all be able to assist each other.

I will try to take it up with the Bangkok Bank but my branch (Emporium) are fairly clueless! The receipt I received for the transfer doesn't even show an exchange rate. Where do you suggest I start? Presumably it's going to be difficult to chage the situation now, but I'd cerrtainly like to try.

I am sorry I have not done this before, but will shortly have to deal with the situation- You have the Bangkok Bank on-shore rate link referred to. Purchase of Condominiums are outside of Thai capital controls (49% and all of that).

You need to engage Bangkok Bank (possibly at senior level) to gain your 10% refund.

Sorry tricky - PKRV

[Maestro]

...I definitely don't have a FET, but the letter/receipt looks the same as your example...Sunbeltasia...told me it's OK - they've checked with the Land Department. So, I don't need a FET. Does this sound right?

Even though you do not need the FET for the Land Department, I suggest you ask your bank to give it to you just the same. If ever you want to send the money out of Thailand again in the future it will be better to have one document too many than one too few. But there is the problem now that your UK bank sent THB, not GBP, and therefore it is not a foreign exchange transaction for Bangkok Bank and you cannot get the FET.

So that’s it: you don’t need the FET, and you can’t get it.

--

Maestro