Thais Making English Words Their Own

[toptuan]

I submit my "Thai-glish" story here....

[Insight]

What about confusing one English word to another similar sounding English word?

Was on a visit to the 'States with a Thai girl I work with a few months ago. We were both in a meeting with a few fellow Americans where she repeatedly referred to our billing system as the "Back-Side system" (rather than Back-End system). Obviously not knowing what "Back Side" means in English slang, the Americans started referring to it using the same term.

I had to leave the room. "Back Side" does sound more apt though.

[wilko]

I was invited in writing to a "lesterlong"

[Richard W]

any thoughts on the แอลกอฮอล์ spelling? i really find it an exception to the norm, especially with แอล and ฮอล์ in the same word!

Well, a pronunciation as [ML]aeo [ML]kaw [ML]haw is perfectly acceptable in Thai phonology and not too bad an approximation to English. In fact, it is probably the best one can do without making the middle syllable โอ. Bear in mind that [ML]hawo is not a possible Thai syllable.

[maccaroni man]

Looking for any one else with a story of a word, or just a word that gets pronounced the Thai way and gives 'em a kick in the pants whenever they hear it.

That's pretty intolerant, especially since you call yourself "realthaideal."

No doubt real Thai people are very tolerant of foreigner mispronunciations of their language.

Cheers.

the problem with this is if you say it wrong in thai you may be saying nothing

[aanon]

any thoughts on the แอลกอฮอล์ spelling? i really find it an exception to the norm, especially with แอล and ฮอล์ in the same word!

Well, a pronunciation as [ML]aeo [ML]kaw [ML]haw is perfectly acceptable in Thai phonology and not too bad an approximation to English. In fact, it is probably the best one can do without making the middle syllable โอ. Bear in mind that [ML]hawo is not a possible Thai syllable.

Yes, sorry it appears that I haven't explained myself clearly enough. I also find แอล-กอ-ฮอ a pretty good approximation to English. Better than แอล-กอ-ฮอน. The reason I find this Thai spelling interesting, though, is that this 'good approximation' of silencing the final ล is not often used for words ending with a single 'l' in english. In the Thai version of methanol, for example, no silent marker is used over the ล, so it's written เมทานอล and pronounced เม-ทา-นอน.

This leads me to think that perhaps the word alcohol entered the language naturally (it's obviously a very old and useful word) and its Thai spelling was established in common usage before the current prescriptive transliteration schemes were established.

To put it more simply, I think that if alcohol was a new term and entering the Thai language today, the final ล would not be silenced.

All the best.

ps. all this makes me feel like a cold beer!

[Sarge]

I never criticise or laugh at Thais when they mangle the English language as my Thai skills are no existent. In fact I appreciate their effort to communicate with foreigners in an other language. That couldn't be said of Brits or Americans (aussies don't count as they don't really speak the lingo) in their own countries. One thing, I noticed that Thais can't spell / pronounce the word "tired", they invariably spell it "tried"; as in, 'ah I worked hard today, I am tried'. I have never figure that one out. Even my ex gf who's a qualified English teacher made the same mistake.

[realthaideal]

See ? A couple days into it this list is funner than a .... funner than a .... it's just fun.

I forgot all about sot (sauce), that someone else mentioned. And love asking for sa-prite, sa-dtaek, and sa-pa-ghetti - not all at one sitting.

The other day I was talking with a friend in Thai and she was trying to tell me where she buys her clothes from in the Kad Luang area here in CM. She tells me "....outside, tii Food Baht." I ask her again. She repeats 'Food Baht.' So I'm like, "You buy clothes at a food baht ? Is that English or Thai ? A food Bath ?" "No, not food, foot! Tao!" "Ok, Foot baht ? What's a foot baht ? Baht? YOu take a bath ?" "No, tii khon doen." "Oh! Path, you mean foot path. We call that a sidewalk. That's a kind of foot path. But we call it sidewalk..." Everyone ha ha ha over misunderstanding.

So who's teaching them foot path ?? Is it Brit Eng vs Amer Eng ? I wonder. I'm gonna go eat some chips while I think on it too. (crisps)

And one I love - an adapted/adopted Eng word for type/ kind/ specifications - 'spec' which is inevitable called sa-pec. I loooove to talk about something that has sapec nii, sapec naan.

My big idea is to have a list of these words since they're so fun to say the Thai way.

[realthaideal]

"I was invited in writing to a "lesterlong"

Along similar sounding lines of thought, I once had the tgf call ahead to Major (May-Jur) to see what was playing as internet was down. She tells me some boring Thai movies she didn't want to see, then there were a couple Hollywood movies that sounded like duds. Then there was one called "Colesteron" I'm like,"....uh there's a movie called Cholesterol ?" She: "Yeah." "No way. There is not a movie called Cholesterol, Tilak." So I say "Is it restauRAUNT, or is it LESTEROL ?" She's not sure. Even if it's restaurant I can't wrap my head around how you put a 'col' or 'cole' in front of it. And there could not be any Hlywd movie called Colesterol, no there can't be. Then she tells me Tom Cruise is in it. Huh ? A Tom Cruise action movie and he has high colesterol ? He plays a fat guy ? What is she leaving out ?

After confusing each other and laughing and arguing about who needs to know who's language, we called back n I listened to the recording. Ohhhhhhh. It WAS Tom Cruis in Collateral. (Turned out to be an ok flick too.) The l changing to n alaways makes sense at the end, but the addition fo the 's' doesn't happen too often, though in Thai these vowel consonant patterns do occur as in Praisenee. She adds the 's' to 'dinner' too = dis'n-ner. Cute.

[realthaideal]

Thrice posting ? Why not ?

So I'm all cool with Mangkon, and sorry for the misunderstanding again there, if I wasn't clear. But what has become apparent is that either He, or then I, was too seliat about things. Mai sanuk loei.

Another favorite.

[Suszzy]

squirrel.

I cannot even describe what I hear when this word is mispronounced, but i appreciate the effort.

you know what..

god..this is embarrassing every time i try to say the word squirrel..

my husband always says..ermm..it's sound a bit dirty the way i pronounce it.

[leedstony]

take a look at the millor = take a look in the mirror

and my favourite mo kistos (mosquitos)

[appleman]

There appears to be few linguistics students here. What we are talking about are "loan words". English has many loan words from French, German, etc. When we borrow a word from another language it becomes our own. One example of this is "Coup de Grace" from French. This is the "blow of grace". But when English speakers say it it is pronounced "Coup de gra". In French this would sound very much like "blow of fat". It should be pronounced more like our "grass". I am sure the french woop it up when they hear an American tyring to say that.

When a word is borrowed into another language it becomes a word of that language with its own pronunciation and intonation. When you hear a Thai pronouncing a word that has been borrowed from English they are saying it correctly because they are speaking Thai (eg. basketball = basketbon). If you are speaking Thai and you say "baskteball" then you are speaking Thai incorrectly.

[leatheryjowls]

Good thread. OK, here's mine: my gf pronounces the words "frog," "fork," and "######," all identically. Namely, they all sound like "######." Or, if she's really on the ball, she might manage something like "flourk" or "frowerk." Obviously, it's impossible to resist this sort of temptation, so I used to hold up a fork at a crowded table and ask her, "Hey, you wanna ######?" And of course she would smile at her considerate bf and say, "sure, thanks!" Doesn't work anymore, though.

A couple weeks ago, I was talking to a friend from Isaan and complaining about how the countryside is sometimes louder than the city. I was about to cite those loud-speaker fruit-selling guys, or the dried-squid on a bicycle honkers, but she interuppted me and said with an expression that meant she knew exactly what I was talking about, "Oh yes. ###### all night." Flabbergasted, I was. Was this nice demure Isaan girl telling me in front of everyone that it's difficult to sleep in the countryside because everyone is too busy having noisy sex all night? Finally, I realized that forgetting the "s" on plural nouns, she was trying to say, "Frogs all night." I love this country.

How about this one? "Townhouse," pronounced "Tow-How." Although there should be no problem ending a word with the Naw-Noo, I think there's a rule against following the Sala-A+Consonant+Sala-Aah with the Naw-Noo. Can't think of any thai examples. Of course, the final "s" in "house" needs a garan on top.

Before I get accused of Thai-bashing, I'll mention a couple of my equivalent mess-ups. I once tried to wish someone "Suksan Wan Gut" (Happy Birthday) but my vowel length was long instead of short and I said "Suksaan Wan Gut" (Cemetary Birthday) instead.

Also, When I first came to Thailand I shocked a couple Thai friends of mine by mixing up vowel lengths again. I was trying to "kit mai awk" (literally "think not exit" or "I can't think") but I said the vowel length to long again and said "keet mai awk" which sounds very simple to "shit not exit" or "I can't shit." Took me a while to recover from that one...

[fire and ice]

My GF says when she was at school she "like to play 'wollybon'."

I knew what she was saying b/c she was pointing at people playing beach volleyball.

After I stopped laughing (& she stopped trying to hit me for laughing at her), I worked out that 'wallybon' is actually correct Thai for volleyball.

She took a while to notice the difference between the 2 words.

I am yet to explain to her the use (in Australia at least) of the term "wally", but I figure I won' be able to explain it to her without me laughing again in the process.

[yoot]

See ? A couple days into it this list is funner than a .... funner than a .... it's just fun.

I forgot all about sot (sauce), that someone else mentioned. And love asking for sa-prite, sa-dtaek, and sa-pa-ghetti - not all at one sitting.

The other day I was talking with a friend in Thai and she was trying to tell me where she buys her clothes from in the Kad Luang area here in CM. She tells me "....outside, tii Food Baht." I ask her again. She repeats 'Food Baht.' So I'm like, "You buy clothes at a food baht ? Is that English or Thai ? A food Bath ?" "No, not food, foot! Tao!" "Ok, Foot baht ? What's a foot baht ? Baht? YOu take a bath ?" "No, tii khon doen." "Oh! Path, you mean foot path. We call that a sidewalk. That's a kind of foot path. But we call it sidewalk..." Everyone ha ha ha over misunderstanding.

So who's teaching them foot path ?? Is it Brit Eng vs Amer Eng ? I wonder. I'm gonna go eat some chips while I think on it too. (crisps)

And one I love - an adapted/adopted Eng word for type/ kind/ specifications - 'spec' which is inevitable called sa-pec. I loooove to talk about something that has sapec nii, sapec naan.

My big idea is to have a list of these words since they're so fun to say the Thai way.

ฟุตบาท (foot-baht) - ทางเดินเท้า, บาทวิถี. n. foot-part.

Next time please make sure that your girlfriend speak Thai to you, not English before criticising her poor English accent.

For appleman's post.

[mangkorn]

Outstanding, Appleman and Yoot. That's telling it like it is.

No doubt English-speakers find nothing to ridicule about the way that they say "toilet," but it probably sounds pretty stupid to French people.

Or, when they think they know Mexican food but say "tamale" - which is really stupid.

[realthaideal]

Yoot. Ok, you're right. But like I said a few posts back, don't be too seliat. How am I to know every Thai word ? That's what I'm trying to work on, you know? And it happened while teaching a group of adult students about giving directions - not with my tgf. So guess why we spoke in English most of the time??? And if you read the story I ask her whether it was Eng words or Thai words .... wondering if I was hearing a borrowed word, a corrupted word, or failing to understand the intonation because..... boy oh boy does it sound like Eng words being said a Thai way. And she told me she though it must be an English word, like say the use of 'walley' - 'valley' is, so we went from there. And thus the reason for my confusion. So...... having repeated and then going down an investigation that any caring Farang wishing to understand would do.... I concluded from what they said, that it was a foot path. Not so crazy. Not so critical of anybody, but having a laugh at the situation. How many people still don't get the point here ? Ok, you're a good policeman thanks so much.

It was a story of a misunderstanding and a laugh and all the things that run thru your head as you try to understand........ alot more fun than it is wondering why ppl get all buggered up over the fact that it happened. THis thread is about a laugh, the Thai language machine, and words. Easy. Sanuk. Rieb Roy. DOn't like the thread, read another one.

Of all things, a thread that is otherwise so fun then has these judge n jury posts ready to convict someone, and it just wastes space, time, n energy in a thread the rest of us are enjoying. If you can't feel the love here, you probably don't feel it elsewhere. Too bad.

But then as well, as you are a good investigator, and right about the existence in Thai language of the word, do you have a dict that tells you the word origin ? I'm curious if this isn't a loan word that was borrowed so long ago that it now has its own Thai spelling and etymology to where it appears deeply entrenched in the Thai language ? Could really have originated in 'foot path' as I thought. Or is it a typical word with actual sanskrit or bali origins ? In that case it's some kind of mimic or mistaken identity, which is even more interesting. INTERESTING! NOT CRITIZING ! COMPRENDES ?

oy vey!

[realthaideal]

Chiang Mai is experiencing rapid growth, and along with it an influx of home supply stores in the last couple years. We have this new big one called Global House. Never would have thought twice about the name at all, probably even would have forgot it and called it 'that new home pro place' if it weren't for how fun it is to say it Thai style - Go-bin How / or Go-bun How(t). I try to fit in to conversations as often as possible now. And the Thais get very excited when Thai-issize it too.

[mangkorn]

Yoot. Ok, you're right. But like I said a few posts back, don't be too seliat. How am I to know every Thai word ? That's what I'm trying to work on, you know? And it happened while teaching a group of adult students about giving directions - not with my tgf. So guess why we spoke in English most of the time??? And if you read the story I ask her whether it was Eng words or Thai words .... wondering if I was hearing a borrowed word, a corrupted word, or failing to understand the intonation because..... boy oh boy does it sound like Eng words being said a Thai way. And she told me she though it must be an English word, like say the use of 'walley' - 'valley' is, so we went from there. And thus the reason for my confusion. So...... having repeated and then going down an investigation that any caring Farang wishing to understand would do.... I concluded from what they said, that it was a foot path. Not so crazy. Not so critical of anybody, but having a laugh at the situation. How many people still don't get the point here ? Ok, you're a good policeman thanks so much.

It was a story of a misunderstanding and a laugh and all the things that run thru your head as you try to understand........ alot more fun than it is wondering why ppl get all buggered up over the fact that it happened. THis thread is about a laugh, the Thai language machine, and words. Easy. Sanuk. Rieb Roy. DOn't like the thread, read another one.

Of all things, a thread that is otherwise so fun then has these judge n jury posts ready to convict someone, and it just wastes space, time, n energy in a thread the rest of us are enjoying. If you can't feel the love here, you probably don't feel it elsewhere. Too bad.

But then as well, as you are a good investigator, and right about the existence in Thai language of the word, do you have a dict that tells you the word origin ? I'm curious if this isn't a loan word that was borrowed so long ago that it now has its own Thai spelling and etymology to where it appears deeply entrenched in the Thai language ? Could really have originated in 'foot path' as I thought. Or is it a typical word with actual sanskrit or bali origins ? In that case it's some kind of mimic or mistaken identity, which is even more interesting. INTERESTING! NOT CRITIZING ! COMPRENDES ?

oy vey!

Appleman's post seemed to put the whole notion of loan words into proper perspective. Even the "typical" words with sanskrit or pali origins are loan words, the same as newer words are. There is no time limit which a word must endure before it becomes a legitimate loan word. The English pronunciation of "toilet" didn't have to pass some test before it could be accepted as a loan word: it just became one, as loan words always do, in every language.

It may or may not be worth noting that - in spite of the acknowledged intention of the original post - the thread did clearly result in a spate of "criticizing" posts from others, including some who never contribute anything useful to this site, "sanuk" or not. It's not difficult to see how a Thai person might begin to feel slightly offended by it. Yo, si, comprendo.

Cheers.

[DavidHouston]

Appleman's post seemed to put the whole notion of loan words into proper perspective. Even the "typical" words with sanskrit or pali origins are loan words, the same as newer words are. There is no time limit which a word must endure before it becomes a legitimate loan word. The English pronunciation of "toilet" didn't have to pass some test before it could be accepted as a loan word: it just became one, as loan words always do, in every language.

It may or may not be worth noting that - in spite of the acknowledged intention of the original post - the thread did clearly result in a spate of "criticizing" posts from others, including some who never contribute anything useful to this site, "sanuk" or not. It's not difficult to see how a Thai person might begin to feel slightly offended by it. Yo, si, comprendo.

Cheers.

To all recent posters in these several topics,

Many of us privately or publicly applauded Mr. Appleman's gentle reminder of language sourcing and usage. His note should be not only taken for its thoughtful content but also for the neutrality of its tone. Appleman is obviously a gentleman who is senstive to the feelings of others and he stated his point carefully and in non-inflamatory terms.

Personally, I welcome new posters into this forum; their participation in this forum may indicate that they have been long-time readers but perhaps felt a bit intimidated from making a direct posting. I hope that the lesson they and the rest of us might draw is that good-intentioned fun is welcome; meaness and disrespect ("flaming" and "trolling" are appropriate words in the new lexicography) are not.

I feel more comfortable with the content of the thread "Your Worst Thai Messups" than I do with "Thais Making English Words Their Own"; perhaps this is my internalization of เกรงใจ and nothing more. I have tremendous empathy for Thais struggling with English, a very difficult language to master. Let's invoke the "Golden Rule" and treat other language learners with the respect that we expect to be shown. Thanks.

[BKKGuitar]

RealThaiDeal, thanks for starting this thread, I've enjoyed reading (most of) it. Don't mind those prickly, over-sensitive types who spend their time looking for things to be offended by. You obviously meant no ethnocentric offense to Thai people. But... I worry that many people are afraid to post, knowing that those Prickly Snipers are lurking, waiting, rifles at the ready!

[kiwivn]

A friend of mine from Holland visited BKK first time couples of weeks ago. He followed some friends to those night bars and he heard the girls around him saying to eachother something like "clean ice" clean ice". It took him quite sometime to firgure out that the girls actually meant "green eyes" as his eyes are beautifully green

[Mangkud]

I like: Toyotaaa Colollaaa (both words with falling tone at the end)

Did you recognize this Japanese car?

[wasabi]

Well, I get pretty tired of people speaking English who ruins our Swedish/Scandinavian words like "smörgåsbord", "ombudsman", "slalom", "window" (vindue), "sister" (syster), egg "ägg" and so forth.

Well, maybe the pronunciation of names should be a lot better, but words like the Internet and other contemporary phenomens will be incorporated into other languages and get a, for the new language, more natural pronunciation.

This is a very good point and one I just remembered recently. Sometimes I chuckle at English loan words in Thai admittedly with a sense that if they are boring from English, well English must be the better of the two! However This is total self deception and ethnocentric. How many words from English, come from where I live USA, not many most are from England? And how many English words come from Latin, Greek, French, Spanish, Sanksrit? Languages are always evolving and sharing traits and patterns with other languages. Even French seems unable to prevent some English words slipping into their lexicon. Though this realization doesn't prevent me from chuckling when I hear Happeee... (Happy)

[AjarnP]

Its only a couple of months to Kritmart when we can all sing Jingen ben at the tops of our voices

Hope everyone has a happy one

AjarnP

[Austhaied]

An friend of mine used to say "mai dee kit maak and a happy new year"..Too funny.

My 3.5 year old daughters English teacher told me today that she is having trouble with saying her first name (Lily), apparently she says ree-a-ree

That "L" can be a real bugger sometimes..Too funny (again) .

Great original post RTD.

[wilko]

....whereas I like Appleman's postings I reject the concept that they should be used as a condescending admonition to other posters that the poster himself doesn't like....

[wilko]

All used in Thai day to day........

gig,

fan,

Teewee,

satu,

Solly,

farang, (from francais)

check-bin (bill), (combo of check US and Bill - UK?)

computuur,

mai get,

mai work,

ber (phone-number)

do twice - bun = double (dubun)

Ohwer - over = too much

Copy

Batturlee battery

Boot = rubber bush or boot (car parts0

caben tie = cable tie

fah-shun - fashion

bank

mai chae - don't care

foot-bon

yam = jam

sandwich

seelious

shopping

supermarket

sick = six

samart = smart

sapaghetti

satamp

sateak

sure

technologeee

manageuur

centeuur

whiskey "pure pure'

and "same, same".......

spelling is approximate and inconsistent!

Edited October 24, 2007 by wilko

[KhaoNiaw]

In some recent reading, I came across the fact that Japanese has a huge number of borrowed words, over 27,000, of which 81% are from English (figures from the 1970s), making up roughly 8% of the total vocabulary. This started in the 16th century and really took off after 1868, with plenty of further input these days.

Thai, I guess, has not been influenced on anything like this scale.

An interesting one I was told the other day was that 'sing' ซิ่ง as in 'rot sing' รถซิ่ง, apparently came from English 'racing'.