Are You All That Cheap?!?!?

[tijnebijn]

Blinky, stir the pot? He INVENTED the pot, with mega sized stirrer....and that is why we love him dearly (I think).

BTW Blinky, if you go back through Indo, don't forget my kreteks.

McG

Yeah I love the Kreteks also .

[jackr]

In some cases farangs actually cause embarrassment by over-tipping.

Any explanation for the above quote, seems bizarre to me - Some people back home have given out huge tips in the $1,000's to waiters/waitresses - cafe/bar/restaurant staff. How is it embaressing to be given a big tip?

Overtipping or being too generous with ones money can result in a loss of face. It is like saying that you feel the person needs it and flaunting the fact you have a lot of cash. In the short period i lived in Florida I noticed (as you mentioned) that people there considered flaunting cash in the form of large tips to be ok. In other countries I have noticed this is considered rather crude (even if done in a discreet manner can be embarrassing for the recipient). In countries such as Argentina and some S.E.Asian countries they are especially sensitive to this. Im no expert, but seems one needs to be careful about showing appreciation for a service.

Anyway, as i stated at the end of my post, I feel it really isnt anyones business how one tips or spends ones cash, its a purely a personal decision.

Edit: the only thing that i think may be worth grumbling about is if people give a percentage of earnings to charity or when they have free time if they consider offering support by volunteering from time to time. Yes people should tip IF THEY CAN and/or if the service was worth it. But judging everyone by the fact they are farang as if all farangs can afford generous tips is biased.

I have never heard of anyone losing 'face' from overtipping, quite the opposite in fact especially here in Thailand.

About time you started mixing with the locals then

[mild7even]

Ate lunch today at Pulcinella... saw no notices of a 10% service charge, looked closely at the bill and didn't see it there either. I guess not everybody is jumping on the bandwagon... yet.

[realthaideal]

Over-tipping is an odd point. Had to think on it awhile.... and remembered maybe two times I've seen it. one time I did it. I was here for a first time vacation in 2000 and didn't know anything and felt the euphoria of spending Thailand's multi colored monopoly money. Everything seemed like such a bargain. And I felt like a king.... whatever. In any case my friend n I toured with our own personal tuk tuk driver for most of the day for 1,000 baht. At the end of the day we decided he was so nice and friendly that we should reward him with another 500 or so baht. Maybe more. He had had trouble enough eating lunch with us when we forced him, and then the tip was just too big. He was taken aback by it. He tried to explain it was too much. I didn't speak Thai back then, but the vibe I got from the experience was that that money was so precious, and he was already being paid so well that, too add so much more was as if he was robbing us. he couldn't bear to accept too much of something from me that he considered so precious. I think it just honesty in some cases. Over-tipping a Thai who has no avarice makes them feel as if they are taking (almost stealing) something from you.

And to all the naysayers out there, yes, there are plenty of them out there who just won't take it. Like bargaining, they'd rather arrive at a tip price that would be right for you and them.

[solo siam]

In some cases farangs actually cause embarrassment by over-tipping.

Any explanation for the above quote, seems bizarre to me - Some people back home have given out huge tips in the $1,000's to waiters/waitresses - cafe/bar/restaurant staff. How is it embaressing to be given a big tip?

Overtipping or being too generous with ones money can result in a loss of face. It is like saying that you feel the person needs it and flaunting the fact you have a lot of cash. In the short period i lived in Florida I noticed (as you mentioned) that people there considered flaunting cash in the form of large tips to be ok. In other countries I have noticed this is considered rather crude (even if done in a discreet manner can be embarrassing for the recipient). In countries such as Argentina and some S.E.Asian countries they are especially sensitive to this. Im no expert, but seems one needs to be careful about showing appreciation for a service.

Anyway, as i stated at the end of my post, I feel it really isnt anyones business how one tips or spends ones cash, its a purely a personal decision.

Edit: the only thing that i think may be worth grumbling about is if people give a percentage of earnings to charity or when they have free time if they consider offering support by volunteering from time to time. Yes people should tip IF THEY CAN and/or if the service was worth it. But judging everyone by the fact they are farang as if all farangs can afford generous tips is biased.

I have never heard of anyone losing 'face' from overtipping, quite the opposite in fact especially here in Thailand.

About time you started mixing with the locals then

It always seems to come down to "Obviously I know more about the real Thailand than you" type posts.

Most Thais dont tip large amounts because to be honest the wealthier amongst them don't care too much about serving staffs economic wellbeing, many business owners here take things like dropped glasses, broken plates etc... out of their employees wages. They may not like farangs overtipping because it damages their status quo, I've personally seen a restaurant owner snatch a large tip from their staffs hands when the customer left. Obviously in hindsite this was done to save the 'face' of the staff member receiving the large tip, right?

[Dustoff]

Over-tipping is an odd point. Had to think on it awhile.... and remembered maybe two times I've seen it. one time I did it. I was here for a first time vacation in 2000 and didn't know anything and felt the euphoria of spending Thailand's multi colored monopoly money. Everything seemed like such a bargain. And I felt like a king.... whatever. In any case my friend n I toured with our own personal tuk tuk driver for most of the day for 1,000 baht. At the end of the day we decided he was so nice and friendly that we should reward him with another 500 or so baht. Maybe more. He had had trouble enough eating lunch with us when we forced him, and then the tip was just too big. He was taken aback by it. He tried to explain it was too much. I didn't speak Thai back then, but the vibe I got from the experience was that that money was so precious, and he was already being paid so well that, too add so much more was as if he was robbing us. he couldn't bear to accept too much of something from me that he considered so precious. I think it just honesty in some cases. Over-tipping a Thai who has no avarice makes them feel as if they are taking (almost stealing) something from you.

And to all the naysayers out there, yes, there are plenty of them out there who just won't take it. Like bargaining, they'd rather arrive at a tip price that would be right for you and them.

Well said and my experiences here over the past 40 years have been the same. I tend to be a bit over-generous sometimes especially if I am really impressed with someone's excellence in their work or if I happen to know their financial circumstances and have not only seen their embarrassment but had them refuse to take my money. This in fact just happened to me on Phuket two days ago.

I think that those who think this is not the case in Thailand, with exceptions of course, just haven't been paying attention. I have found that most Thias are proud to receive fair payment for work done and wouldn't want to be treated like a charity case any more than I would. But then there are many on these forums who are quite happy to second-guess the Thai people and assume that most are out to get whatever they can. Utter nonsense.

[Ulysses G.]

I realize that I am American and so tipping seems normal to me, but so many Thais try so hard to please one on such a low salary, that tipping a small amount on top of their salary just seems more fair to me.

[JoshMyPickle]

I tend to believe the saving face rationale of not accepting tips; the other night, I tried unsuccessfully to give one of the flower childs some baht coins that were just lying on the ground--even pointing them out to the little guy--but he absolutely refused to take 'em. Perhaps it's also one of those ridiculous Thai superstitions...

[WaiWai]

I think many people tend not to tip because they come from countries where sevice people in their opinion have reached the pinnacle of their career path. In America, most people tip, because we know that almost anyone, coming from almost any economic background, can become almost anything they want.

I think that might be drawing a rather long bow, on more than one count .

Tipping is rare in Australia. Aussies who neglect to study the regional "tipping etiquette" section of the aeroplane magazine closely may be remiss in some situations. For instance, it would never have occcurred to me to tip someone who cut my hair. I am never quite sure in different countries about the person who moves your bags one metre from the taxi boot to the hotel lobby, and the one who wheels it to the lift & opens your door & turns on every single light in the room, and the one who brings your laundry to the room, and the one who wants to turn the sheets down in the evening (cripes, who is that lazy ?) and leave little paper slippers and the one who brings room service and all the rest...

In some parts of Asia a tip may be refused initially but is expected. This can occur in China, but there a tip may also be genuinely and vehemently refused; not sure if cultural or a relic of the full-on Communist days or both.

Edited September 30, 2007 by WaiWai

[p1p]

I am merging this with the 10% service charge thread as they both approximate the same subject now.

[lamphun]

A lot of folks in the service industry recieve either a very low salary or no salary at all so tipping is good manners in many places. The problem for the foreigner is figuring out where and when. Car park attendants at restaurants are usually unpaid. Normal tip of 20 baht is ok. 100 cars a night x 20 = 2000baht

[Sanpatong]

Well I have to say I find most replies heart-warming so far. On many a (sub)forum you always get a whole lot of people endorsing rabid tipping, but this has mostly been a breath of fresh air.

Indeed if a place charges service charge then that's it for me; sorry. Mind you, a personal pet peeve place that ranks very high on the hate list is actually S&P... NOT a Farang/tourist place at all, but the bastard cnuts do try it on while exploiting their workforce.

A lot of folks in the service industry recieve either a very low salary or no salary at all so tipping is good manners in many places. The problem for the foreigner is figuring out where and when. Car park attendants at restaurants are usually unpaid. Normal tip of 20 baht is ok. 100 cars a night x 20 = 2000baht

LOL.. Not sure if this is serious or joking or maybe my sense of humour isn't in gear at this hour, but you think it's just fine for some idiot parking lot dude with a whistle to make 2000 baht on an evening? (Or anything at all really, they're after all more of a nuisance than anythign else.

Whooo hay, thanks for making my windscreen wipers stand erect, pretty-boy-whistler-you, here's 20 baht? Oh and thanks for illuminating the contact keyhole, man if it wasn;t for you I would just NEVER have found that back. Waddayasay, could you follow me to the bathroom for a bit, I need some illumination on my bunghole too willya?

Give me a $*&(#^Y$&@&@#(*$*& break.

Anyway, that almost got me on the topic of bathroom-massage-dudes, and those REALLY upset me but I'll save that rant for later. Stay tuned.

Edited September 30, 2007 by Sanpatong

[mcgriffith]

Feel better?

Don't stop; we always like a good rant from you, Sanpatong!

[sceadugenga]

I left tipping up to my Mrs for a long time, she knew exactly who to tip and how much, so I learned accordingly. Was in a CM restaurant near the night bazaar the other night, waiting for her to come back from a little shopping. She arrived in time to see me ordering a glass of ice because I had been brought a warm beer. The waitress was sent on her way with a flea and her ear and I'll leave you to guess how much the tip was.

[mcgriffith]

I particularly liked the line about "windshield wipers stand erect, pretty-boy-whistler-you".

Sort of like Hunter S. Thompson meets Blue Boy Magazine.....

[Ulysses G.]

Anyway, that almost got me on the topic of bathroom-massage-dudes, and those REALLY upset me but I'll save that rant for later.

Does anyone LIKE them touching you when you pee? I would rather pay them to leave me the he11 alone!

[cnxmike]

Let's see it as it is. This service charges and whatever is charged extra, is nothing but to hide the real costs.

You read a menu, you see a lassagna is costing you 300 B. On the first page of the menu might be mentioned service and tax are extra. But how many people are able to add 10% to 300 B, which makes it 330 B and plus 7%, which makes it 351 B. So finally a lot of customers expect to pay 300 B., which turns out be 351 B.

That's very unfair against restaurants, which show the real price on their menu. I would call it a rip off.

[Priceless]

Let's see it as it is. This service charges and whatever is charged extra, is nothing but to hide the real costs.

You read a menu, you see a lassagna is costing you 300 B. On the first page of the menu might be mentioned service and tax are extra. But how many people are able to add 10% to 300 B, which makes it 330 B and plus 7%, which makes it 351 B. So finally a lot of customers expect to pay 300 B., which turns out be 351 B.

That's very unfair against restaurants, which show the real price on their menu. I would call it a rip off.

I believe it would in actual fact be 353 B, because the VAT is calculated on the basic price + the service charge.

/ Priceless

[cnxmike]

@priceless

you are right, of course. You see, even me with a master degree, is not able to calculate the correct price. And that's the way these restaurants trick out their customers. A serious and honest business man would always show the final costs of it's products.

[el jefe]

As far as the Duke's goes, Dave's vision was to keep the original location low-priced with a bigger menu and daily specials for us expats and run the Night Bazaar Branch to service tourists with prices that reflect the expensive rents and costs of doing business in that area. He does go out of his way to tell locals to avoid the more expensive location and I am quite happy to go to the one on the river.

We were discussing this thread and Dave told me that one reason that some places want to add the service charge is because the hotels do it and then pay better salaries than the restaurants can afford. The restaurants train the unskilled employees and then they quit to work in hotels for better salaries and better benifits.

The problem is that many other places with less scruples just steal the service charge and give little to nothing the workers and keep the extra as a bonus for the fat-cats on top.

I guess that this just isn't a black and white issue, but, if we have to have them, I would love to see these service charges go directly to the employees by law.

So I'm confused, UG. We've all talked about the 10% service charge at Duke's night bazaar location and it has been suggested that the service charge there might be to cover the higher rent. You talked to Dave but neglected to tell us what he said about whether the 10% goes to the employees or not. By that omission, should we assume he's pocketing the 10%? As others have stated, isn't that stealing? Why is it OK to patronize a restaurant where the owner is stealing from his employees at another location?

[Ulysses G.]

Sorry, that I wasn't clearer.

David says that all of the service charge does go to the employeees, but part of it goes towards paying the manager's salary because he keeps the service up to snuff and that they couldn't afford him otherwise.

I will leave it to you if that is legit, or not. He feels that it is under the circumstances.

Edited October 1, 2007 by Ulysses G.

[pattyboy]

This idea of adding a 10% service charge seems to be happening more and more often. The last couple of times my GF and I were out for dinner, she pointed out that the bill already had 10% added, so there's no way she'd let me leave an additional tip on the table. Had she not insisted, I probably would have left a little more, so I've got to wonder if this (Thai GFs not letting their other half leave more of a tip) is actually cutting into the amount of tips waiters and waitresses are getting. I would say that when the 10% is not added and the amount of the tip is left up to me, I probably average about a 15-20% tip. (I know it's a little high by Thai standards, but I also know that waiters and waitresses rely on getting tips as their basic wages are very low.)

[damian5000]

I know I'll get bashed for this (I always do when I go against popular opinion), but I can't see paying 800 OR 1100 baht for any type of meal for 2 (unless it's maybe surf and turf...Then POSSIBLY). 1100 baht is half a months rent for the average Thai in Chiang Mai. Throwing that kind of money around for one meal if you're living here or staying a long time I think is ridiculous. If you're on vacation...Ok...I can see it.

[Ulysses G.]

In general, I agree with you, but I haven't been home for 17 years and I LOVE good food. A splurge now and then is worth it to me if the food is really superior to the norm.

[damian5000]

In general, I agree with you, but I haven't been home for 17 years and I LOVE good food. A splurge now and then is worth it to me if the food is really superior to the norm.

Hey! Thanks for not bashing me. Laughing... Yea... I can see a good splurge once in a while. Nothing wrong with it, but I rarely if ever go there. Kind of had the impression that was the reg for you.

Peace,

Damian

Edited October 1, 2007 by damian5000

[damian5000]

To add to this... My GF profits about $30 a week - if she's lucky - and works 7 days 8am-10pm at her hair shop, so I can't justify this kind of spending. I live off my own money and help a bit with things, but even spending this kind of money taking her out I think would be ridiculous from our point of view.

[Donnyboy]

In general, I agree with you, but I haven't been home for 17 years and I LOVE good food. A splurge now and then is worth it to me if the food is really superior to the norm.

good food can be inexpensive too

[Donnyboy]

Anyway, that almost got me on the topic of bathroom-massage-dudes, and those REALLY upset me but I'll save that rant for later.

Does anyone LIKE them touching you when you pee? I would rather pay them to leave me the he11 alone!

first time someone massaged me from behind in a public toilet, I peed higher up from the fright

not that Im used to it now but another time, the guy actually straightened my back and neck, and I felt much better. "Back crack and bladder relief" in 60 seconds!

[Sao Jiang Mai]

Interesting debate, but I would like to argue against this perception that some of you have about over tipping. Thailand is a patronage society, you respect your elders, your social 'supriors', your bosses...and your clients. There is nothing at all wrong about taking from those you deem 'above' you. Older people pay for younger, men pay for women, bosses pay for employees. I am not saying I agree with this, but this is how it is...though it is changing. Therefore if you tip a staff it is absolutely acceptable. And considering what waitresses and waitors get paid (3,500-8,000 baht) trust me, no one is going to be insulted if you give them a whopping tip. One of my first jobs I got tipped a massive 500 baht once. I will never forget it. It was memorable because I was obviously good at what I did, I pleased someone and ######, it kept me in beers for over a week!

[john b good]

In general, I agree with you, but I haven't been home for 17 years and I LOVE good food. A splurge now and then is worth it to me if the food is really superior to the norm.

good food can be inexpensive too

No argument with that, however if you wanna have a nice tenderloin steak you are gonna have to pay for it.

Even if you buy a bit in Rimping it's gonna set you back a few dollars.

I guess the bottom line is whether one eats food purely for keeping the body running or on occasion eating for the pleasure of doing so.