Police Volunteers

[Mobi]

I know that this is a 'touchy' subject for Thai Visa, but even the much maligned Pattaya Press has dared to publish an article by Peter Lloyd in which he questions the purpose and performance of Pattaya's Police Volunteers.

This is a serious article and is worthy of intelligent, non-abusive discussion, and I trust that the powers that be will allow it to run its' course, providing that members follow forum rules.

Here's what Peter has written:

Recently, I was watching a couple of games of football in a bar fronting Walking Street, where I was surprised to see gangs of black shirt-clad tourist police volunteers sauntering along, mob-handed, chatting, seemingly oblivious to the lawlessness around them.

In doing so, on FIVE OCCASIONS within two hours they missed a small slave-child selling chewing gum to tourists, and her young handler, who kept dodging from them and hiding until the coast was clear, much to the amusement of bar drinkers and workers alike, but to the embarrassment of the unwitting Keystone volunteers.

And they did nothing to interfere with the trade of the card-carrying sex menu people either, whilst I was there, even though one young and dangerously drunk Thai in the bar I was in was clearly one of the controllers of this racket as he had 6 or 7 people regularly coming over to him to hand him money and have drinks bought for them before going out with their menu cards again. And this went on for the whole time I was there.

Recently the Pattaya police complained about this form of activity on the street, rightly thinking it gives the place a bad name.

And later in the night, when monkeys, exotic creatures and snakes (and I am talking animal and reptiles here) came out, and beggars used small babies and children as their economic slaves to beg in the alley leading to Marine Plaza, as usual, where were they then? What time do they stay on Walking Street until? What is their job description and what are their powers of arrest or alert to other police who can make arrests?

Do foreign volunteers have to have years of former senior police experience in their own countries (which should be an absolute minimum requirement) or can anyone join if they have the right mates? Residents need to know this information so we know when and if it is worth involving them in anything more than traffic accidents, minor assaults or theft, or do we need to look for Thai police when there is something more serious afoot.

It’s not for me to give advice on tactics to them, but have these guys ever thought of discrete undercover surveillance, using mobiles instead of strolling en masse through the streets, alerting and scattering wrongdoers well in advance of their arrival? If not, they ought to consider mounting surveillance operations. Had one of them been with me that night, observing, and then coordinating the actions of his colleagues, they would have had a jail full of miscreants.

I am not saying volunteers, Thai and foreigner, don’t do a worthwhile job – maybe they do, but I do wonder about their role, the parameters of their powers, their professional approach and their tactics, especially given the recent deluge of bad publicity Thai volunteers have had.

Is there any oversight of their performance? Do they publish arrest/involvement/action lists? Are they performance reviewed? I would like to know answers to all these questions, and if I find them, I will share them with you.

Peter Lloyd

Pattaya Today

[Ulysses G.]

They are not Thai. They should mind their own business.

If it gives them a kick to be wearing a fake "police" uniform while doing so, what is the harm.

[Phil Conners]

The Thai volunteers are as bad as the farang. More than one have I seen a Thai Volunteer abuse his "privilege".

[mikethevigoman]

The Thai volunteers are as bad as the farang. More than one have I seen a Thai Volunteer abuse his "privilege".

I happen to know one of them ,(no names mentioned ) talk about having the fox take care of the hen pen !

[britmaveric]

Volunteers - they assist MIB when needed. I don't recall they have the power to go out and make arrests. Course I could be wrong.

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

As far as I know, the volounteers can not make arrests, so to burden them with all the street crime in Pattaya (or elsewhere) is perhaps a bit too much. I guess the idea of having these types is to have someone able to interact/interpret between a tourist and the real police. Not so much a huge serious issue methinks. OK, some of these fellows can seem to get a bit carried away, from the number of toys hanging from their belts. But honestly, I think mostly they are harmless, and actually do some good now and then.

[moo9]

I'll apply soon, as the nights out in Pattaya getting too boring over the time......

[solo siam]

They aren't the morality police, I thought they where there to help the tourists - with the main thing being their native language skills.

[Mobi]

I’ve never been great lover of police – whatever their country of origin – and I always suspect that many join up for the wrong reasons – i.e. they are on some kind of power kick, or crave the need to exercise control over their fellow human beings.

I know that many out there would disagree with this opinion, and I would also concede that there are some ‘good guys’ in uniform, and indeed through the years I have had reason to testify to that myself.

I also admit that society has a need for such people as policemen to keep our worst primeval urges at bay, and to ensure that the natural desires of most to belong to ‘civilised’ social groups is not put at risk by a small minority who wish to disturb and prey on such groups.

Many years ago, I worked with a man who was an ex British cop. He had been a policeman for over 20 years before he quit and came to work for me. He confirmed all my worst fears about the motivations of most cops – including himself – that they were mainly on power kicks – and the corruption and underhand dealings that he related to me were, frankly, an eye opener. As I say, this was a long time ago, and since then, the corrupt practices that have come to light through the years in the British Police force have come as no great surprise to this writer.

Now, I would also concede that in the absence of even a small minority of Thai Police in Pattaya who can speak English (which in itself is ridiculous, considering the nature of the town, and the high number of crimes involving foreigners), there is a need for English speaking people who can assist and liaise with foreigners who are in trouble, whether they be crime perpetrators or victims.

But frankly, as Peter Lloyd has pointed out, these farang tourist police probably lack any background experience for this work– and as such are highly questionable entities.

If someone can prove to me that their motives are truly altruistic and that they are a positive force for good on the streets of Pattaya, then I would be first in line to thank them and shake their hands.

So are there any tourist police volunteers out there willing to put their side of the story?

Tell us what you do – we are waiting with baited breath.

[Maestro]

I thought they were limited to helping out where a farang is involved, but am not sure. Would their brief not be on their website? Google and ye shall find, hopefully.

--

Maestro

[Maestro]

...as Peter Lloyd has pointed out...

I think what Peter Lloyd wrote is rubbish. He could have walked into the police station if he wanted to know the job description of the Volunteer Police, but obviously that’s not what he wanted to know or perhaps he knew already. Instead he expresses his amazement at the fact that they made no arrests, when it is widely know that they have no power to make arrests, and that they did not interfere with petty Thai criminals or carry out covert surveillance. As I said, rubbish.

Who is this Peter Lloyd, anyway? And the editor of the “much maligned Pattaya press” should have know better than to print his silly story.

And the OP should have known better than to post it here. His true motive is perhaps hidden in this phrase in his second post in this topic: “I’ve never been great lover of police...”. Anybody thinking that the OP started this topic hoping for abusive posts about the Volunteer Police can be forgiven for thinking it.

--

Maestro

[piker]

I was recently the victim of a Walking St. attack by a jilted ex. We ended things bad to say the least as I had caught her stealing cash from me. Kicked her out but received many calls from her to forgive/forget and get back together which were all ignored. I saw her on WS one night and she stopped me to try talking it out but I had nothing more to say and then she attacked me (the Thai face loss scam?). I didn't retaliate for fear of 100 of her brothers joining the melee but I defended myself by running away to live another day. Last week (6 months later), she saw me near Lam Morrison's new club (well worth the visit by the way) and she attacked me again ripping off my shirt and leaving scratches on my head and chest.

I keep the phone # of one of the TPV in my phone and contacted him in the morning for advice. His suggestion was to get a doctor's assessment as proof, a print out of her photo, her full name (near impossible as hardly anyone knows their girl's full name), any witness statements (which I had), and she would be arrested by the BiB or TPV as they do have the power to arrest if either there's an arrest warrant or the suspect has been caught committing an offense/crime such as minor assault.

I was too lazy to get the doctor's note and the TPV suggested that without a bribe of 2000 baht, the police, unless the officer on duty was in a law enforcing mood, wouldn't do much if anything. "Thai Love Thai"

The end result is that I'm avoiding WS in the hopes she'll burn out like most do and I won't see her ever again. I'm pretty tough if I need to be but this is Thailand and I'm well aware of the consequences of clobbering a Thai even in self defense.

All to say, I agree with the Pattaya Mail writer that those vendors should be removed from WS. Money talks and there's no surprise that these elements will continue to exist under the nose of the police forever.

[Maestro]

...agree with the Pattaya Mail writer that those vendors should be removed from WS...

Are you saying that you agree that the Tourist Police Volunteers should remove the vendors, as suggested by the writer?

--

Maestro

[piker]

...agree with the Pattaya Mail writer that those vendors should be removed from WS...

Are you saying that you agree that the Tourist Police Volunteers should remove the vendors, as suggested by the writer?

--

Maestro

Yes. The media often confirms that the BiB receives complaints from the tourists about the vendors but fail to stop ALL, only impound the goods of some. Who are the unlucky? They are the outfits not paying tea money is my guess.

There's one old lady on WS in particular who will shove her bouquet right in your line of vision and I simply don't care and swat her arm away firmly but never to cause her any harm (I know something bad will happen to me...). I simply can't understand how the hel_l she's permitted to annoy so many people? Oh yeah, it's tea money, stupid.

[begsaresponse]

Yes Foreign Police Volunteers have a uniform that is black.

We only have function when we are in the police station at Soi 9.

We have no powers of arrest.

We are not even policemen.

Our role is to interact between Royal Thai police and any foreign visitor/person.

And if we can help then we will.

The FPV should not be marching down Walking street.

Perhaps you saw the Tourist Police going down walking street?

Going down Walking Street is not our role.

begs

[DonTron]

2 weeks ago I was at walking street and saw the usual 3 guys selling drugs outside the aly next to tonys, across from the Italian restaurant where they been dealing ever since ... phew I can’t remember not seeing them there actually.

Down the street came 16-18 uniformed Police Volunteers and a couple of them stopped just few meters from the drug dealers. But the dealers kept selling and promoting "Coke - Jaba - Marijuana..." as if there were no police present at all.

This must be the ultimate proof that Police Volunteers does not have anything to do with the law, enforcing of the law or even has a duty to report crimes if they see them.

So their jobs must be to assist tourists if they get into trouble with the Pattaya police, and nothing else.

[george]

Yes Foreign Police Volunteers have a uniform that is black.

We only have function when we are in the police station at Soi 9.

We have no powers of arrest.

We are not even policemen.

Our role is to interact between Royal Thai police and any foreign visitor/person.

And if we can help then we will.

The FPV should not be marching down Walking street.

Perhaps you saw the Tourist Police going down walking street?

Going down Walking Street is not our role.

begs

What is the difference between "FPV" and farang volunteers with "Royal Thai Police"?

[hm1973]

Yes Foreign Police Volunteers have a uniform that is black.

We only have function when we are in the police station at Soi 9.

We have no powers of arrest.

We are not even policemen.

Our role is to interact between Royal Thai police and any foreign visitor/person.

And if we can help then we will.

The FPV should not be marching down Walking street.

Perhaps you saw the Tourist Police going down walking street?

Going down Walking Street is not our role.

begs

What is the difference between "FPV" and farang volunteers with "Royal Thai Police"?

The FPV's are attached to Pattaya Police Station and only work in the Police Station. The Tourist Police Volunteers are attached to the Tourist Police and work "in the field", mainly Walking Street, however their responsibility covers 4 Eastern Seaboard Provinces, not just Pattaya. The FPV's have been active for about 3 months, the TPV's have been active for 13 years and are supported by the Ministry of Sports and Tourism and the Tourism Authority of Thailand which is why most Pattaya-based forums do not allow threads on TPV's (apart from TV it seems!!!!).

Edited October 2, 2007 by hm1973

[george]

Yes Foreign Police Volunteers have a uniform that is black.

We only have function when we are in the police station at Soi 9.

We have no powers of arrest.

We are not even policemen.

Our role is to interact between Royal Thai police and any foreign visitor/person.

And if we can help then we will.

The FPV should not be marching down Walking street.

Perhaps you saw the Tourist Police going down walking street?

Going down Walking Street is not our role.

begs

What is the difference between "FPV" and farang volunteers with "Royal Thai Police"?

The FPV's are attached to Pattaya Police Station and only work in the Police Station. The Tourist Police Volunteers are attached to the Tourist Police and work "in the field", mainly Walking Street, however their responsibility covers 4 Eastern Seaboard Provinces, not just Pattaya. The FPV's have been active for about 3 months, the TPV's have been active for 13 years and are supported by the Ministry of Sports and Tourism and the Tourism Authority of Thailand which is why most Pattaya-based forums do not allow threads on TPV's (apart from TV it seems!!!!).

Interesting. We allow talking about it, sort of, if it's in a nice manner. But normally these type of threads go bad, apparently this particular thread is not. Thanks for keeping it nice.

[Maestro]

So if I got this right there are in Pattaya

– the Royal Thai Police

– the Foreign Police Volunteers (attached to the Royal Thai Police)

– the Tourist Police

– the Tourist Police Volunteers (attached to the Tourist Police)

--

Maestro

[hm1973]

So if I got this right there are in Pattaya

– the Royal Thai Police

– the Foreign Police Volunteers (attached to the Royal Thai Police)

– the Tourist Police

– the Tourist Police Volunteers (attached to the Tourist Police)

--

Maestro

correct, but to confuse matters, the Tourist Police is a division of the Royal Thai Police!!!!

Edited October 2, 2007 by hm1973

[Maestro]

... So are there any tourist police volunteers out there willing to put their side of the story?

Tell us what you do – we are waiting with baited breath.

Are the Tourist Police Volunteers – who are the subject of the Pattaya news article quoted by the OP – Thai nationals? If so, I fear that the OP may have to wait a long time for one of them to come and post here.

--

Maestro

[Maestro]

Are you saying that you agree that the Tourist Police Volunteers should remove the vendors, as suggested by the writer?

Yes...

I believe that the Tourist Police Volunteers have neither the authority nor the responsibility to remove vendors, and if this is so then Peter Lloyd, Mobi and you are barking up the wrong tree.

--

Maestro

[hm1973]

The badly written and thought-out article begins talking about the thai volunteers and then changes to the ferrang volunteers for no apparent reason. The sex show card guys on walking street and drug dealers are nothing to do with the ftpv's who deal primarily with foreign tourists - problems and general enquiries and tourist information.

No more replies from me in this thread for now.....off to bed.....see you in 8 hours!!!!

[Maestro]

...gangs of black shirt-clad tourist police volunteers... (quote from Pattaya news article by Peter Lloyd)

They are not Thai. They should mind their own business.

I have found the answer to one of my questions in the above posts. The Thai Police Volunteers are black (and wear shirts) according to Peter Lloyd’s observation, and Ulysses G. Confirms that they are not Thai. But are these two gentlemen correct?

And what is the business – ie their assigned duties – they should mind? Googling, I found this on the website of the Tourist Police Volunteers:

The Tourist Police Volunteers was established in 1993. Some local police departments are turning to civilian volunteers to supplement their sworn force. These vital efforts will receive new support through the Volunteers in Tourist Police Volunteers Program (TPV)

TPVP draws on the time and considerable talents of civilian volunteers and allows law enforcement professionals to better perform their frontline duties.

--

Maestro

[Maestro]

The badly written and thought-out article begins talking about the thai volunteers and then changes to the ferrang volunteers for no apparent reason...

The author of that article, Peter Lloyd, did not seem to know what we wrote about and I am beginning to suspect that he did not witness the events he described.

I feel like closing this topic because of the contradictions in the quoted news article and because of its nonsensical nature, but I shall leave this decision to a moderator of the Pattaya forum.

--

Maestro

[kpeanut]

The FPV's are attached to Pattaya Police Station and only work in the Police Station. The Tourist Police Volunteers are attached to the Tourist Police and work "in the field", mainly Walking Street, however their responsibility covers 4 Eastern Seaboard Provinces, not just Pattaya. The FPV's have been active for about 3 months, the TPV's have been active for 13 years and are supported by the Ministry of Sports and Tourism and the Tourism Authority of Thailand which is why most Pattaya-based forums do not allow threads on TPV's (

apart from TV it seems!!!!).

Howard, would you care to expand on why it is frowned upon to discuss TPV's? your "!!!" seems to me that you are a little shocked that TV has let this thread develop, (well done George don't give in Maestro let it run unless it gets off track) why would you or any TPV not want to be mentioned in a forum? If as you say you only assist tourists I would have thought you would have welcomed the chance to promote this.

Why would you or any TPV think it is right to censor discussion in any form?

I do not have an opinion on wether TPV's should exist or not however after an open discussion perhaps I will be in a position to form one.

Is discussion frowned upon because it is supported by the TAT? if so why would the TAT want any of its activities censored from the public.

Very interested to hear your views on censorship Howard... if you are for it it does not bode well for your publication.

[chiang mai]

Until about five years ago the Tourist Police used to employ Uni grads who had a good command of English to act as an interface between the tourist population and the Tourist Police. Eventually the powers that be realized they could get the same service much more cheaply by using resident expats. There's nothing special about the "specials" other than the fact they can speak and understand English and they are cheaper than local hires.

[sriracha john]

The badly written and thought-out article begins talking about the thai volunteers and then changes to the ferrang volunteers for no apparent reason.

Actually the article does NOT begin off talking about Thai volunteers. The whole article is about the farang police volunteers and their role in Thailand and their qualifications.

ftpv's who deal primarily with foreign tourists - problems and general enquiries and tourist information.

If their role is of such an innocuous nature, why does their appearance not match in the slightest? Instead, they appear more suited for SWAT work.

What was their involvement in this case?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?ac...amp;pid=1320398

Edited October 3, 2007 by sriracha john

[percy2]

What this topic does show is that its not widely known what the role of the TPV or the FPV is.

Cheers