Frozen Uk Pensions

[Tammi]

If you'd like to tell your friends about this petition, its permanent web address is: http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/FAIRPENSIONS/

[Basil B]

Hi Tammi,

Thanks for the link, I have not retired yet, but I do hope this issue will be resolved by then.

The current situation is certainly unfair and not just the pensions I mean when I retire I will have probably worked for 49 years paying tax and NI every month without fail and as yet I have never had to claim for unemployment benefits, or ever be hospitalized since having my tonsils out at the age of 4, yet if I chose to spend my final years in Thailand I will no burden to the National Health Service, therefore you would think that they could pay people to retire outside the UK just for the saving to the National Health Service.

But there again I suppose this petition will not have much impact as many people who have retired abroad have lost there vote as well.

BB

[BIGTOE3]

Hi Tammi,

Thanks for the link, I have not retired yet, but I do hope this issue will be resolved by then.

The current situation is certainly unfair and not just the pensions I mean when I retire I will have probably worked for 49 years paying tax and NI every month without fail and as yet I have never had to claim for unemployment benefits, or ever be hospitalized since having my tonsils out at the age of 4, yet if I chose to spend my final years in Thailand I will no burden to the National Health Service, therefore you would think that they could pay people to retire outside the UK just for the saving to the National Health Service.

But there again I suppose this petition will not have much impact as many people who have retired abroad have lost there vote as well.

BB

Hi BB and Tammi,

I can relate totally with BB comments except any ailments were paid for privately, and yes I am not yet of retirement age, still a decade or so to go BUT I still registered as it is the correct thing to do.

The Labour changee their stance on Inheritance tax due to pressure --- so who knows...

Well done Tammi bringing this to our attentiom.

BT

[endure]

This case has already been to the House of Lords. It was kicked out in 2005. The people who brought the case said they were going to take it to the ECHR but had no idea when it would he heard.

[Tammi]

This case has already been to the House of Lords. It was kicked out in 2005. The people who brought the case said they were going to take it to the ECHR but had no idea when it would he heard.

Will have to read up on Parliamentary procedures but, in the meantime, can you tell us if once kicked out that's it - can't go through Parliament again?

When one starts work in UK does one have to pay NI or can one opt out? And having decided to pay NI is one advised that if one retires to another country that benefits will be cut and/or frozen?

Also, what is the position for British Civil Servants? In similar circumstances are their pensions frozen?

[endure]

This case has already been to the House of Lords. It was kicked out in 2005. The people who brought the case said they were going to take it to the ECHR but had no idea when it would he heard.

Will have to read up on Parliamentary procedures but, in the meantime, can you tell us if once kicked out that's it - can't go through Parliament again?

When one starts work in UK does one have to pay NI or can one opt out? And having decided to pay NI is one advised that if one retires to another country that benefits will be cut and/or frozen?

Also, what is the position for British Civil Servants? In similar circumstances are their pensions frozen?

It was kicked out on 2nd appeal in the House of Lords so I suspect the ECHR is the only chance left. You can't opt out of paying NI as it's collected with your Income Tax from your salary as part of taxation. You don't get to decide to pay NI in the same way as you don't get to decide to pay any other tax. Whether or not you get increases in your pension depends on what country you decide to retire to.

[Guest jonzboy]

just a couple of points that I can add

firstly, the number of years of contributions to qualify for a full NI pension has just been reduced to 30 years down from 44 years

you can pay voluntary contributions of you are already living overseas, doesn't costs much, but benefits are worthwhile if you can see yourself surviving past age of 65

payments are frozen (i.e. no annual increases) for retirees living in certain countries like Canada, Australia, Thailand, but not for EU, USA, Philippines and a few others

the ECHR hearing is scheduled for sometime very soon (should have been this summer but has been delayed)

[Tammi]

And what about British Civil Servants? Do they get same kind of pension as other employees and if so are their pensions frozen too?

[darrendsd]

some interesting posts made about this subject

jonzboy you mentioned that you can continue to make voluntary ni payments?

any idea how i would go about doing this [would have to be able to sort it out from over here]

many thanks

regards

darren

Edited October 12, 2007 by darrendsd

[JohnC]

A number of issues here, the state pension is based on NI contributions deducted from salary, normally you can apply to DWP for a forecast of your likely pension at 65 which is given at todays rates and based on your NI contributions (BR19 is the form used) however, because of the recent reform this is not currently available.

The Department for Work and Pensions provides a pension forecasting service to customers in both Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Unfortunately, the Department is temporarily unable to provide customers who reach State Pension Age on or after 6 April 2010, with a State Pension forecast. This is because the computer systems used to provide State Pension forecasts are in the process of being updated to reflect the recent changes to the State Pension rules introduced by the Pensions Act 2007.

Please note that while the Pensions Act 2007 applies only to Great Britain, it is intended that Northern Ireland, which has its own body of pensions legislation, will make corresponding provision for its customers in due course.

Over the next year we will be updating the computer systems used to provide State Pension forecasts, to enable us to provide a service that will be available to all to use. We aim to have the system changes in place by Autumn 2008.

http://www.thepensionservice.gov.uk/atoz/a.../rpforecast.asp

If you are some way from retirement age (currently 65) then next year you can apply for a quote at which time you wll be offered the opportunity to make additional payments if needed. Also note that the retirement age is being raised to 68 between 2024 - 2046!

As ar as Civil Servants are concerned I believe the OP has confused occupational pensions with the state pension, state pension rules apply to everyone irrespective of their past employment, civil servants like the armed forces, police etc have an occupational pension which is subject to its own rules and not the givernment rules on state pension (for example an armed forces pension attracts annual increases irrespective of where you live) Given the current annual pension increases in the state pension (below 3%) it is such a small amount its not really worth getting upset about, you are talking about 200 baht a week! maybe if you live to 90 then the difference will be significant but who knows!

On the plus side the state pension will be raised in line with average earnings increase and not the rate of inflation which could be a bonus for us when we reach that magic age!

If I am still bouncing around Pattaya in 5 years time I will report back to TV !

[Basil B]

There are many issues raised here.

First is the state pension, this is a fixed sum and if you have been paying NI for most of your working life you can expect to receive £87 per week and if you are married you share £140 per week, if you have not contributed for part of your working life, ie you have been working abroad then this would be scaled down.

In addition there is the second state pension a top of the basic pension based on how much NI you have paid, there is an opt out for this where you can elect for part of your annual NI which is paid by both the employee & employer at a percentage of salary to be paid into a private pension fund.

Addition pensions can be occupational or private, occupational pensions are schemes run by employers where you may be guaranteed a pension based on your final salary, private is where you make personal contributions.

In addition if you are resident in the UK if all of the above does not amount to £110 for a single person (£180 for a couple) then the state will top it up.

Re the House of Lords, I think there is some confusion here, "This case has already been to the House of Lords. It was kicked out in 2005" this is reference to a legal action where the house of lords is the highest court in the land as apposed to a "bill" (proposed law)submitted from the lower house (The Commons) for "Reading" (approval).

BB

[Taijitu]

........the ECHR hearing is scheduled for sometime very soon (should have been this summer but has been delayed)

The hearing is scheduled for next month and I believe that the senior judge involved in this hearing is very supportive of the petitioners' claims. Watch this space.

[mrbojangles]

........the ECHR hearing is scheduled for sometime very soon (should have been this summer but has been delayed)

The hearing is scheduled for next month and I believe that the senior judge involved in this hearing is very supportive of the petitioners' claims. Watch this space.

Even though i'm far off retirement age, i'll be keeping my fingers crossed. Double standards always suck.

I also think this should be in the General Forum, not just tucked away in the Pattaya forum.

[GuestHouse]

I'd recommend that each individual pens a letter to his member of parliament.

ALSO TAKE NOTE OF THIS.

There is an election coming up (or at least in the offing) expatriate votors are a sizable part of the equation, certainly one worth the attention of the Tories who might expect to benefit from the expatriate vote.

So now is the time to write to the conservative party and ask them to adddress this unfairness.

As a long time campaigner for fair pensions (and many years away from my own pension) I'm going to do this myself as soon as I get home after this holiday.

[Guest jonzboy]

for darren

if you haven't already checked out the link in the post following yours, www.thepensionservice.gov.uk should have all the info you require

as i recall, as long as you were a NI contributor before leaving UK you can pay voluntary Class 3 contributions (about 30 quid a month), including upto six years in arrears

a friend of mine claims you can even choose Class 2 payments which are cheaper

this can be done simply by writing to them, it helps if you have your NI number as a reference

believe me, despite the possibility of permanently being frozen, the value of the pension is worth much more than the cost of 30 years of contributions. I've been an expat for over twenty years and so nearly all of my NI contributions have been voluntary. Fingers crossed I make it beyond 65 to enjoy the benefits, but in any case, the wife will get something out of it after I go.

[ianc66]

Just to reinforce what the Op said go here http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/FAIRPENSIONS/

AND SIGN!

This epetitions idea is a good one lots of good stuff lots of crackpot stuff, but surely as expatriate pensions effects so many people, 1.3 Million Britons live in Australia 1,163 British Pensioners in Thailand, far more people should sign.

Figures source http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6210358.stm

Tell your friends, email them, put http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/FAIRPENSIONS/ on other forums worldwide.

Moderators, surely should be in General Topics?

[ianc66]

Whoops! just noticed it is in General Topics.

[Tafia]

And what about British Civil Servants? Do they get same kind of pension as other employees and if so are their pensions frozen too?

[/quote

The Civil Service Pension Scheme is like any other index linked Occupational Pension and will receive index linking.

Civil Servants are subject to the same rules regarding State Pensions.

[ianc66]

You might find these websites of interest quite significant interest in Australia and Canada

http://www.moneymanagement.com.au/Articles...g_0c01b90f.html

http://bpia.youle.info/

http://www.britishpensions.bc.ca/Media.html

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2007-03-14a.126543.h

[ianc66]

Reading some of the links above there is another e-petition on this topic at

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/unfreezepensions/

With nearly 7000 signatures -- go there and sign by 15 November 2007

[JimsKnight]

I'd recommend that each individual pens a letter to his member of parliament.

ALSO TAKE NOTE OF THIS.

There is an election coming up (or at least in the offing) expatriate votors are a sizable part of the equation, certainly one worth the attention of the Tories who might expect to benefit from the expatriate vote.

So now is the time to write to the conservative party and ask them to adddress this unfairness.

As a long time campaigner for fair pensions (and many years away from my own pension) I'm going to do this myself as soon as I get home after this holiday.

Guesthouse is bang on with this one, the newspapers then and now often mention that the 1994 Tory election victory was decided by expat voters.

When Gordon Brown changed the tax exile laws last / this year (having to stay out of the country a lot longer to claim tax free perks) a lot of expats I know have declared themselves for the torys (who have conveniently pledged to get rid of GBs strict tax exile rules).

The armed forces pension is very similar to the civil servants pension; both are index-linked to rise with inflation (in the case of a preserved pension).

It is acknowledged as one of the best pensions in the UK. However I think it would still be suseptable to being frozen to increases if a retiree moved to Thailand and declared himself a tax exile.

[sumrit]

As an update to this petition there is a government response to an earlier petition at http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page14125.asp

This is what it says;

Unfreezepensions - epetition reply

3 January 2008

We received a petition asking:

"We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to remove the discrimination against British State pensioners who retire in certain overseas countries."

Details of Petition:

"British State pensions are uprated in the following overseas countries: Austria, Barbados, Belgium, Bermuda, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Gibraltar, Guernsey, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Isle of Man, Israel, Italy, Jamaica, Jersey, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Macedonia, Malta, Mauritius, Norway, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Sark, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, The Netherlands, Turkey, USA and Yugoslavia. British State pensions are frozen in these countries: India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa, Zimbabwe and most other Commonwealth countries. British State pensions are paid out of the National Insurance Contribution fund which, the Government's own Actuary Department stated in early 2006, has a surplus exceeding current requirements of over £30 billion and growing."

Read the petition

Petitions home page

Read the Government's response

Thank you for your e-petition about the annual uprating of State Pensions payable to British pensioners residing abroad.

As the petition correctly points out, State Pensions are paid out of the National Insurance Fund (NIF) rather than general taxation. The petition argues that the Government should use the current surplus in the Fund to meet the cost of uprating the State Pensions of all recipients living overseas.

The NIF is maintained under the control and management of Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs. It is run on a "pay-as-you-go" basis; current income, mainly from national insurance contributions, pays for current expenditure mostly on Contributory Benefits. There is a requirement for the NIF to have sufficient funds, together with a working balance, to meet benefits expenditure. The uses to which the NIF can be put are clearly specified in legislation, with the majority spent on state pensions.

National insurance contributions and the associated social security benefits operate within the Government's fiscal rules designed to ensure sound public finances. When there is a surplus it is invested. Without this the Government would need to raise the equivalent through other means to fund public services. The NIF surplus is not therefore an extra resource available to spend.

To fund annual pension increases for all recipients in countries where upratings are not currently payable, we would have to raise additional income from UK taxpayers. Our priority, given the limited resources available, is to ensure that pensioners resident in the UK continue to see an increase in their living standards commensurate with the growth of the economy as a whole.

Further Information

HM Revenue and Customs (new window)

Department for Work and Pensions (new window)

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I wouldn't expect to see any other response. I think it will need somebody to test the validity of this rule in the courts.

[v8tfcorty]

Slightly off topic but i have a mate in Pattaya who specializes in getting peoples money out of locked/frozen pensions, PM me if anyone wants his phone number, UK only.

[prakhonchai nick]

as i recall, as long as you were a NI contributor before leaving UK you can pay voluntary Class 3 contributions (about 30 quid a month), including upto six years in arrears

a friend of mine claims you can even choose Class 2 payments which are cheaper

The class 3 contributions are voluntary and payable by those who are no longer employed. Class 2 contributions are paid by those who are self employed. Very strangely Class 3 is around £7+ a week for the unemployed yet Class 2 is only £2 + a week for those who have income by being self employed. rather illogical!!!

However to be able to make class 2 payments it is necessary to satisfy the NI contributions people that you are in fact self employed, (regardless of which country) and they require evidence!

[endure]

as i recall, as long as you were a NI contributor before leaving UK you can pay voluntary Class 3 contributions (about 30 quid a month), including upto six years in arrears

a friend of mine claims you can even choose Class 2 payments which are cheaper

The class 3 contributions are voluntary and payable by those who are no longer employed. Class 2 contributions are paid by those who are self employed. Very strangely Class 3 is around £7+ a week for the unemployed yet Class 2 is only £2 + a week for those who have income by being self employed. rather illogical!!!

If you're self-employed you're not entitles to sickness benefit (and other benefits I think) which is why Class 2 contributions are lower.

[prakhonchai nick]

If you're self-employed you're not entitles to sickness benefit (and other benefits I think) which is why Class 2 contributions are lower.

You are correct there. Basically just the pension, but it is irrelevant for those of us living in Thailand. The British government would give us nothing if they could get away with it!

[Westerner]

If you'd like to tell your friends about this petition, its permanent web address is: http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/FAIRPENSIONS/

Just bringing this back to page 1 where it will be seen (and hopefully signed) by more TV members.

[CRUNCHER]

Any one heard any more about this?

[mahtin]

Any one heard any more about this?

E-Petitions

Sign a petition

This petition is now closed, as its deadline has passed.

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Allow compatability of pension payment of UK pensioners abroad and at home. More details

Submitted by Neil Simpson – Deadline to sign up by: 02 February 2008 – Signatures: 221

[mahtin]

Any one heard any more about this?

What will happen to my petition once it is finished? Once your petition has closed, usually provided there are 200 signatures or more, it will be passed to officials who work for the Prime Minister in Downing Street, or sent to the relevant Government department for a response.

Every person who signs such a petition will receive an email detailing the Government's response to the issues raised.

Can one of those who petitioned answer?