Uk Pension For Brits Married To Thai Women

[Guest jonzboy]

some of the earlier posts have indicated a lack of information or contradictory advice from DWP

read this...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/moneybox/7065387.stm

[Mobi]

[

However if you are 65 before 6th April 2010, then you require 44 contributions for a full pension, and I believe a minimum of 10 to get any pension.

There is no reason why you cannot make payments for the past 6 years + any further years before retirement, and it may be possible to make payments from 1997 too. Well worth looking into. Check it out soon, as they answer very slowly, and as each 6th April comes round you effectively lose a year in which you can make a payment

I have a friend in BKK who will be 65 in 2009 and is living in very 'reduced' circumstances. He has been overseas since his early 20's and would not have met the old minimum requirement, which I understood to be 15 years.

However, you are saying that you think the minimum is now 10 years. If this is the case, he might be able to get some kind of a pension by paying 6 back years, then for the current years up to 2009, plus any he paid as a young man.

Can you point me to where I can find the new rules on minimum contributions for those who will reach 65 before 2010?

I have looked at the quoted website and can't find any info on this, and as we have seen on this thread it will take a long time to get an answer from the UK.

Thanks

[prakhonchai nick]

.Can you point me to where I can find the new rules on minimum contributions for those who will reach 65 before 2010?

Thanks

Have just had a look at my booklets. Download Retirement pensions booklet NP46.

2 conditions need to be met to receive basic retirement pension.

1) You must have one qualifying year since 6th April 1975 which is derived from the actual payment of Class 1,2 or 3 NI contributions or have paid 50 flat-rate contributions at any time before 6th April 1975.

2) To get the basic minimum (25%) you normally need 9 or 10 qualifying years (9 if there are 42 years in your working life) and 10 if between 42 and 46 years)

Hope this helps

[prakhonchai nick]

Info on making Voluntary NI Contributions

To pay voluntary National Insurance contributions

Time limits

To count towards basic State Pension and bereavement benefits, voluntary contributions must generally be paid before the end of the sixth tax year following the one in respect of which they are paid.

If you pay them after the end of the second tax year in respect of which they are paid, they will normally have to be paid at a higher rate.

However, for the 1996-97 to 2001-02 years the

time limit has been extended to

• 5 April 2009 if you reached pension age on or after 24 October 2004

• 5 April 2010 if you reached pension age

before 24 October 2004

Paying for earlier tax years

If you want to make payment for earlier tax year(s) and are within the time limit for payment you

should contact

HM Revenue & Customs

National Insurance Contributions Office

Contributor Caseworker

Benton Park View

Newcastle upon Tyne

NE98 1ZZ

If payment is made before this deadline the voluntary contributions will be due at the original rate

Have a look at http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/nic/ca5603.pdf

[Guest jonzboy]

Mobi

please see

http://www.thepensionservice.gov.uk/atoz/a...ent.asp#howmuch

although I can't find the reference for it, the minimumstate pension under the old system is payable if you get 25% of your qualifying years, actually less than 15 years

[astral]

This drop to 30 years will benefit me, as I am pretty sure I have 30 years paid already.

I have been paying voluntary contributions for some years now

as the financial magazine have long been recommending it as a good investment.

[astral]

This drop to 30 years will benefit me, as I am pretty sure I have 30 years paid already.

I have been paying voluntary contributions for some years now

as the financial magazines have long been recommending it as a good investment.

I see that if you have overpaid with Voluntary contributions you can get a refund.

[CaptainSplod]

Ugh! - Confused! And mightily so! Seems to be a lot of contradiction in the posts about qualifying years to get any pension. Some say you only need ONE year's payments, others that you need a minimum amount of years (9 or 10). Or is it just too early in the morning for me?

[Guest jonzboy]

For the Captain

A new pension law came into effect in July this year.

Before this, you needed to have 44 years of NI contributions to get a full basic pension, and you needed 25% minimum to qualify for any pension at all, pro-rata for the number of years out of 44 years you have contributed. Minimum pension is therefore 25%, you get nothing at all if you fail to qualify in terms of years of contributions. This rule still applies for anyone reaching 65 before end of April 2010. (Note, this is a simplification as there are exceptions due to gender, not working after 60 but resident in UK, etc)

Now, as a result of the pensions reform, if you reach 65 after the above date, the counting rules change. You need 30 years of contributions to get a full basic pension. You qualify for a pension for any amount of qualifying years. But you must have a full 52 weeks for each year of contributions, hence the minimum is one year. Pension payable is therefore 1/30th of the full basic pension. Thus, 15 years of contributions gets you half, and 30 years 100%.

Hope that clarifies things.

Please read the link for pensions reform at www.thepensionservice.gov.uk

[intumult]

snip

To obtain dependents allowance it is not necessary to be married, only to be able to satisfactorily prove that someone (of either sex) is dependent on you effectively meaning a live in partner. Alternatively it can be claimed for someone who is looking after your children. However I envisage problems trying to prove one has a live in partner.

snip

Maybe time to get the cameras out with time/date stamps on the pictures and also a time to remember to keep any relative paperwork for those in longer term relationships ?

All goes to proof - as we could expect a rough ride over proving the relationships.

[soap]

I was reading, in the Pattaya forum, about the UK government's decision to freeze pensions for expats from the day they leave the UK. I'd been aware of this for some time, and I understand it goes to the ECHR in a month or so. Hopefully, they'll rule in favour of the complainants. It IS, IMO, grossly unfair to freeze payments at the old rate just because someone has chosen to live their dotage out abroad. But ... and here's what I want to get some feedback on ... does anyone have experience of the situation for UK expats who marry Thai women? Does the UK pension go up any to take account of the marriage, even though it has taken place outside the UK? Does the spouse of a UK expat continue to get any kind of pension after the expat has 'popped their cloggs'? I'm not of pensionable age ... yet. 10 years to go.

Any feedback will be welcome.

DIG

thank you dressedingreen and to all posters that have made this thread the most interesting and informative that i have read for a long time

[ronigere]

I was reading, in the Pattaya forum, about the UK government's decision to freeze pensions for expats from the day they leave the UK. I'd been aware of this for some time, and I understand it goes to the ECHR in a month or so. Hopefully, they'll rule in favour of the complainants. It IS, IMO, grossly unfair to freeze payments at the old rate just because someone has chosen to live their dotage out abroad. But ... and here's what I want to get some feedback on ... does anyone have experience of the situation for UK expats who marry Thai women? Does the UK pension go up any to take account of the marriage, even though it has taken place outside the UK? Does the spouse of a UK expat continue to get any kind of pension after the expat has 'popped their cloggs'? I'm not of pensionable age ... yet. 10 years to go.

Any feedback will be welcome.

I hope the day comes when a Brit married to a Thai gets all the benefits in Thailand that they get in the UK

DIG

thank you dressedingreen and to all posters that have made this thread the most interesting and informative that i have read for a long time

[Guest jonzboy]

here's an interesting calculation on the value of the basic UK pension, based on my personal circumstances of reaching 65 in 2020

figures use today's money so that the end result is what you would have today if you were 65

current basic pension, including dependant person addition (i.e. wife even under age of 65) is £139.60 per week, which is £7,259 per year

add on to this a factor to represent the fact that by 2012 the annual increase in pensions will be based on average wage increases rather than inflation, I have used the figure of 15% to represent the difference of about 2% extra per year for seven years

value of the pension becomes £8,347 per year

current exchange rate to THB is more or less 70, so that makes THB584,000 per year

for those that think monthly, that's THB48,700 give or take a baht or two

that's a lot of beer lao

[Lite Beer]

The more I read this thread the more cheerfull I become.

I really thought I would be getting my pension in 8 years time with peanuts.

The amount is going up every time I read here.

[sleepyjohn]

Whilst it at first seems grossly unfair I do see one justification in the pension freeze. I do not necessarily agree with it I might add.

When you are on a pension in the UK you are spending it in the UK. When you spend it a proportion goes back into the kitty in all sorts of indirect taxes. If you are abroad it does not.

So what would you do if you were chancellor.....a middle course?

[RayBan]

Some further info of my experience in this matter............I have paid NI contributions since I started work in 1966. I left to go work abroad in 1977 and have worked overseas ever since, however I maintained paying voluntary contributions every month to this day.

I am nort due to retire until AFTER April 2010 and last year (Sept 2006) the DHSS actually contacted me and advised me to consider that I may not have to pay any further contributions if the new pensions White paper becomes law. I have attached a copy of this letter:-

I have not received any further correspondence to date from them on this matter.

[xyborg]

<br />Whilst it at first seems grossly unfair I do see one justification in the pension freeze. I do not necessarily agree with it I might add.<br />When you are on a pension in the UK you are spending it in the UK. When you spend it a proportion goes back into the kitty in all sorts of indirect taxes. If you are abroad it does not.<br />So what would you do if you were chancellor.....a middle course?<br /><br />

<br /><br /><br />

So at a time in life (old age) if living outside of the Ec when you can t claim free health care and need the most money they take it from you!

Its not a middle way its penny pinching mean and unjustified. However its nice to see wives evebn if not uk residents get something. Inflation will gnaw away at it though in years to come. Thankfully I only have 4 years left to pay to get my 30 in.

[ronigere]

here's an interesting calculation on the value of the basic UK pension, based on my personal circumstances of reaching 65 in 2020

figures use today's money so that the end result is what you would have today if you were 65

current basic pension, including dependant person addition (i.e. wife even under age of 65) is £139.60 per week, which is £7,259 per year

add on to this a factor to represent the fact that by 2012 the annual increase in pensions will be based on average wage increases rather than inflation, I have used the figure of 15% to represent the difference of about 2% extra per year for seven years

value of the pension becomes £8,347 per year

current exchange rate to THB is more or less 70, so that makes THB584,000 per year

for those that think monthly, that's THB48,700 give or take a baht or two

that's a lot of beer lao

[ronigere]

here's an interesting calculation on the value of the basic UK pension, based on my personal circumstances of reaching 65 in 2020

figures use today's money so that the end result is what you would have today if you were 65

current basic pension, including dependant person addition (i.e. wife even under age of 65) is £139.60 per week, which is £7,259 per year

add on to this a factor to represent the fact that by 2012 the annual increase in pensions will be based on average wage increases rather than inflation, I have used the figure of 15% to represent the difference of about 2% extra per year for seven years

value of the pension becomes £8,347 per year

current exchange rate to THB is more or less 70, so that makes THB584,000 per year

for those that think monthly, that's THB48,700 give or take a baht or two

that's a lot of beer lao

hope the day comes when a Brit married to a Thai gets all the benefits in Thailand that they get in the UK

DIG

[churchill]

Is the state pension frozen at the rate when one left the UK or at the rate applicable at time of retirement . I am considering topping up my contributions to take me to the 30 years , another 7 required , but if the pension is frozen at the value when I left the UK , 5 years ago , it may not be worth it ?

Although I am non-resident , I still pay tax in the UK as I have property and a UK bank account .

[Mobi]

Your pension will only be frozen from the date you start receiving it - i.e. when you are 65. You will therefore receive the rate applicable at the time you first draw your pension, but it will then be frozen and no subsequent increases, unless you return to the UK or the European Court appeals are successful.

Incidentally, as you are non resident for tax, you can avoid paying any tax on bank interest if you open an account offshore - i.e. in the Channel Islands. Many UK banks have branches out there.

You would still pay tax on any UK property rental income though.

[Guest jonzboy]

Sleepy

agree with you, but if you are not in UK you do not cost the government in things like health care

also how does this argument make it fair that cost of living increases are provided to a retiree living in Philippines???

Rayban

I got that letter too. Still no follow-up from them, BUT I did my sums and stopped my contributions at the end of the last financial year, before the actual passing of the pension reform law in July 2007, as I knew I could always start up payments again if necessary

[Thaicoon]

This is another new thing i have heard about yesterday, i had the pension guy to see my parents as i think they were not getting the quota owed to them, there is a new thing called Pension Credit, this is if you have not paid into a private pension, so they will bump your pension up, if you have paid into a Private Pension it works the other way, they will give you a bonus for saving, my mother and father both have private pensions so can now get this bonus every month. not sure of figures yet.

So guys if some of you are over 65 and getting OAPension and have paid into a private pension, this may be worth looking at as well,

[prakhonchai nick]

BAD NEWS FOR THOSE COMMENCING PENSION AFTER 6th APRIL 2010

During my regular searches of the extensive pensions website, I have just seen a new item. Everyone who commences pension on or after 6th April 2010 is subject to the new rules, and whilst only 30 NI contributions will be required, the dependents benefit (officially known as an adult dependency increase ADI) is being abolished. So you will only receive the basic pension, your wives having to wait till that can claim pension in their own right at some age between 60 and 68.

Current pensioners and those due to receive pension before 6th April 2010, can claim Adult dependency Increases ADI, but these too will be withdrawn in 2020.

The following spells it all out http://www.thepensionservice.gov.uk/pensions-reform/faqs.asp

Nick

[RHCP]

BAD NEWS FOR THOSE COMMENCING PENSION AFTER 6th APRIL 2010

During my regular searches of the extensive pensions website, I have just seen a new item. Everyone who commences pension on or after 6th April 2010 is subject to the new rules, and whilst only 30 NI contributions will be required, the dependents benefit (officially known as an adult dependency increase ADI) is being abolished. So you will only receive the basic pension, your wives having to wait till that can claim pension in their own right at some age between 60 and 68.

Current pensioners and those due to receive pension before 6th April 2010, can claim Adult dependency Increases ADI, but these too will be withdrawn in 2020.

The following spells it all out http://www.thepensionservice.gov.uk/pensions-reform/faqs.asp

Nick

Thanks for that Nick although not good news. I was trying to locate this information myself on the DWP website without success following a conversation with a member of staff from HM Revenue & Customs. Interestingly, the DWP staff member that I spoke to after was referring to the existing regulations concerning the dependant allowance.

I was curious why they would reduce the number of qualifying years as that would obviously result in less income through NI payments. Now we know, reduce overall payouts. Clearly the Labour government in their typical stealthy way discretely cancelled this allowance.

[prakhonchai nick]

Below is an extract from the pension reform website.

Why is Adult Dependency Increase being abolished?

Abolishing Adult Dependency (ADI) will enable money to be reinvested in improving State Pensions. Women in particular will get a better deal from State Pensions. So the need for ADI would have reduced anyway.

I am currently in receipt of Adult Dependency Increase (ADI). Will this be stopped on or after 6 April 2010 as part of the Reform

If you are already in receipt of ADI at the point of change in 2010, your ADI entitlement will be protected until the point where the transitional protection ends in 2020 or before that if the qualifying conditions are no longer satisfied e.g. if the person you are getting the ADI for starts to get their own State Pension.

I am married and currently in receipt of Adult Dependency Increase (ADI). Will I be financially disadvantaged when ADI is ceased in 2020?

It is estimated that around three quarters of the ADI in payment at the point of the change in 2010, would in any event, have stopped before 2020 because your partner should become eligible for State Pension in her own right. ****If this is not the case for you - you will be advised of other benefits you may be eligible to e.g. Pension Credit.

****unlikely to include the Thai wives who seemingly are all much younger than their husbands!

[JohnC]

How many members are recognised as resident in Thailand

very few I suspect.

A year by year retirement visa is not a residence permit.

Although I am younger than Mobi and therefore a bit further away from UK state pension ( ) I have followed this thread with interest and I think one of the most interesting points is that quoted above re Resident Status. I think this could be a moot legal point because by Thai law we (most) of us are here on an annual basis that is a holiday that lasts twelve months and we are at the mercy of Thai authorities who can withdraw or change the conditions of our stay at any point (and have done!) Therefore by legal definiton we are NON RESIDENT. Now, as a UK citizen with passport and voting rights plus right of abode we also pay tax on any income sourced in the Uk (pensions, investments , business etc) therefore my argument is that by legal definition we must be resident in UK EVEN if we choose to spend our retirement in warmer climes for twelve months of the year.

If these facts were presented by counsel in the European Court I think they would be hard to dispute, it is nothing to do with reciprocal social security payments and more to do with Human Rights as a UK citizen! I would be interested in what othes think of my reasoning.

On a slightly different note any UK ex servicement reading this should be aware that after 1975 any service exceeding two years qualified for a preserved pension payable when you reach 60! however, it has to be claimed they do not contact you!

[Guest jonzboy]

what JohnC is basically pointing out is that such a person, whilst non-resident in the UK, is probably regarded as UK domiciled by hmrc - a complex subject

[prakhonchai nick]

The whole question of UK residency is spelt out in the booklet IR20, Whilst this is primarily for tax purposes it is largely adopted by the Pension service in deciding whether the pension can be increased annually or not.

I believe that to obtain annual Pension increases automatically, without regard as to whether you live in an EEA country, or one who has reciprocal arrangements, it is a requirement that you spend a maximum of 3 months a year out of the country.

Have a look at the residency rules http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/pdfs/ir20.htm

[Mobi]

John I hear what you're saying but very much doubt if your argument would hold up.

Most of us living overseas have declared ourselves non-resident for tax, by virtue of being out of the UK for 9 months or more in any tax year. This is not hard and fast ruling (as it was recently challenged successfully by HMRC with regards to a pilot who, although he was out for more than 9 months clearly still maintained his residence and family in the UK), but for most of us it will apply, and we only pay tax on income earned from within the UK.

The question of being non domiciled is more complex, and takes longer to establish, but again many of us will qualify, and the main point about being non- domiciled is that it takes your world wide estate out of the UK inheritance tax net.

Then you have the current rules which no longer give you access to free health care (except emergency treatment) and other social services if you have been abroad for more than 3 months.

All this is telling me that you have no chance whatsover in trying to prove to a court that you are still resident (if indeed you want to be after reading the above) just because Thailand will not grant you permanent residence.

Nice try though