Uk Pension For Brits Married To Thai Women

[Taijitu]

I do know a couple of pensioners who get there central heating allowance whilst living in Thailand, nice one,

i laugh about this i say to them it should be air conditioning alowance , you cannot blame them,

they have paid into the system so why not, this is a good topic and has also put my mind at rest about pension for myself and the wife, Thanks Guys.......keep em coming

If that is the case then they are on the fiddle, using a UK address and not declaring their

real location to the UK authorities.

This seems the only way to go.

Definitely.....they're on the fiddle!! I know of two Brits who have stayed in Thailand for many years and, on reaching 60 years old, they both started claiming Winter Fuel Payments. Something, or more likely somebody ,"caught up with them". Eventually and they were "invited" to return to the UK to attend interviews at the local DWP centre in Bexleyheath. Their UK state pensions have been reduced whilst they payback these Winter Fuel Payments!!!!

These fiddles never last forever, the system will always catch up with you or your dependants in the end.

[Mobi]

Definitely.....they're on the fiddle!! I know of two Brits who have stayed in Thailand for many years and, on reaching 60 years old, they both started claiming Winter Fuel Payments. Something, or more likely somebody ,"caught up with them". Eventually and they were "invited" to return to the UK to attend interviews at the local DWP centre in Bexleyheath. Their UK state pensions have been reduced whilst they payback these Winter Fuel Payments!!!!

These fiddles never last forever, the system will always catch up with you or your dependants in the end.

It looks to me that they got too greedy and have now lost a lot more than their fuel payment grant.

They clearly lied about where they lived, and as such must have been receiving the annual pension increments. Now that the authorities are on to them, their pensions will be frozen and they will almost certainly have to pay back the increments they have received since living in Thailand.

I know the case of another UK pensioner who has gone to great lengths to pretend he is living in England when in fact he is in Thailand. The DWP were suspicious, and even visited his "UK Address" and interviewed his daughter, who lived there, to check whether he really resided there.

So be warned - it's not as easy as it might appear - the DWP are well aware that many pensioners will try to falsely state where they live to avoid having their pensions frozen.

[Taijitu]

Good post and thank you - it is all helping our understanding of this complex subject.

May I , with respect, may I make few comments on what you have written.

The people who have written in this thread about getting pensions for their wives have all stated that the key to the pension was in fact to get their wife an NI number, and that this was the big hurdle that they finally overcame. Yet you are saying they don't need an NI number. So I'm still confused on this.

I am also confused about your reference to a "married couple's pension" By this do you mean your own pension (current full rate 87.30 per week) plus your dependant wife's allowance? I have looked at the DWP website and cannot find any reference to a "married pension", so I would be grateful if you could clarify this.

Thank you

Mobi, your wife doesn't need a NI number to for you to qualify for an "Adult Dependency Allowance". My wife obtained her NI number subsequent to the payment of this ADA. These various UK official websites giving information and advice on pensions, benefits, allowances etc, are a confusing morass of cross references, official-speak and double-talk!!!

Edited October 19, 2007 by Taijitu

[jgarty38]

I am a near 70 year old uk pensioner, lived here for a couple of years and yes, the pension is frozen. Not my privet one though. What happens after I kick the bucket I dont know, would love to find out. My privet pension will pay my wife 50% on my death.

[Guest jonzboy]

thanks taijitu, i didn't check my source before commenting

i now recall the quote was about a couple living in south of spain getting the heating allowance

the other post about being checked up on is worth bearing in mind, but to be honest I think the UK government will eventually have to cough up on this blatantly discriminatory practice

[prakhonchai nick]

For what it is worth I have a letter from HM Revenue & Customs dated 12 June 2007. In it are the following quotes:

''You can claim a dependant wife increase when you reach age 65 regardless of your wife's age and residence status. You will need to send the pensions office a copy of your marriage certificate at the time you make your claim".

She further added that they would need a notarized copy and translation of the marriage certificate plus my wife's birth certificate in order to obtain a National Insurance number and consequently receive the additional pension allowance. (My wife doesn't have a birth certificate. Anyone know the system in this country for obtaining one?).

I have 18 month to go till I am eligible for UK state pension. I have researched most avenues over recent years, and have had much correspondence with HM Revenue and Customs and the former DHSS.

Basically I have been assured that I can claim the dependents allowance for my wife (much younger than me), and that only my wife's birth certificate and our marriage certificate need to be sent in (originals and they will translate themselves and return). Like so many other Thai's my wife has not got a birth certificate. Whilst this can be obtained from the local Amphur, "at a cost", with the help of the village headman, it is unnecessary.

A letter from Pension Service last July stated "Any original document that shows your wife's date of birth will be sufficient to verify her date of birth. If the birth certificate is not to hand we need two other original documents.

If originals are not available you can send copies but only if they have been notarised to say the original has been seen.

There is no need for you to translate any documents as we can do them for you.. "

I have also been assured that when I go to see Buddha, if I have children under 16, my wife will receive Bereavement benefit (equivalent to the single persons retirement pension) £90.70 from next April, subject to a 100% contribution record from ME. There is no additional allowance for children, as this is now dealt with by Child Tax Credits and is only available to both claimants and children who are permanently in the UK. She will also receive the one off Bereavement allowance of £2000.

Bereavement benefit ceases when the child is 16 , and then the wife receives nothing until she is at least 60 (65 from 2020 and increasing to 68 some 20 years later. Then based on your contributions, she will receive state pension at the rate applicable at the time.

With all the info I have and the various letters which I have kept, I am quietly confident that my claim for myself and wife will proceed smoothly.

Hope this helps

[Lite Beer]

For what it is worth I have a letter from HM Revenue & Customs dated 12 June 2007. In it are the following quotes:

''You can claim a dependant wife increase when you reach age 65 regardless of your wife's age and residence status. You will need to send the pensions office a copy of your marriage certificate at the time you make your claim".

She further added that they would need a notarized copy and translation of the marriage certificate plus my wife's birth certificate in order to obtain a National Insurance number and consequently receive the additional pension allowance. (My wife doesn't have a birth certificate. Anyone know the system in this country for obtaining one?).

I have 18 month to go till I am eligible for UK state pension. I have researched most avenues over recent years, and have had much correspondence with HM Revenue and Customs and the former DHSS.

Basically I have been assured that I can claim the dependents allowance for my wife (much younger than me), and that only my wife's birth certificate and our marriage certificate need to be sent in (originals and they will translate themselves and return). Like so many other Thai's my wife has not got a birth certificate. Whilst this can be obtained from the local Amphur, "at a cost", with the help of the village headman, it is unnecessary.

A letter from Pension Service last July stated "Any original document that shows your wife's date of birth will be sufficient to verify her date of birth. If the birth certificate is not to hand we need two other original documents.

If originals are not available you can send copies but only if they have been notarised to say the original has been seen.

There is no need for you to translate any documents as we can do them for you.. "

I have also been assured that when I go to see Buddha, if I have children under 16, my wife will receive Bereavement benefit (equivalent to the single persons retirement pension) £90.70 from next April, subject to a 100% contribution record from ME. There is no additional allowance for children, as this is now dealt with by Child Tax Credits and is only available to both claimants and children who are permanently in the UK. She will also receive the one off Bereavement allowance of £2000.

Bereavement benefit ceases when the child is 16 , and then the wife receives nothing until she is at least 60 (65 from 2020 and increasing to 68 some 20 years later. Then based on your contributions, she will receive state pension at the rate applicable at the time.

With all the info I have and the various letters which I have kept, I am quietly confident that my claim for myself and wife will proceed smoothly.

Hope this helps

Helps a lot Nick. Thanks for the info.

[Mobi]

Yes, thanks Nick, very interesting info.

I've got 4 years to go, so assuming I'm still married, (now there's an assumption!), I'll give it a go when the time comes.

[kopite]

Hi all,

In relation to this subject there is currentlt an e-petition being formulated to protest about frozen pensions, you can find the link here.... Frozen pension petition to Downing Street

It is in everyone's interest (worldwide) who are due a UK state pension to sign this petition.

There are also some useful hyperlinks at the petition site on this subject............hope this helps............

im 28 and will never get a pension. signed....good luck fellas

[Ricardo]

All people recieving a UK state pension are subject to the same rules - regardles of where they came from, and when they arrived in England.

Under the enacted regulations, pensioners living in certain overseas countries (E.g. USA) will receive the annual pension increases, whereas others (e.g. Thailand and South Africa) have their pension rate frozen when they take up residence in that country. There appears to be no rhyme or reason to it, but that's the way it is.

It is unlikely that this law will be reversed, but you never know.

On the other hand, I never really believed, that they would drop the requirement from 44 year' to 30 years' payments, but it still happened. Despite the government not having any money to pay the pensions from - since the whole thing is really a pyramid-scheme.

People from other countries may well find it hard to understand, why our pensions are indexed if we reside in certain approved countries, but not for many others. This smacks of a 'nanny-state', which knows best what is good for you, and will punnish you, for thinking differently ! Some freedom !!

I guess that it just goes to show that, without a constitution to guarantee equality and equal-treatment of all citizens before the law, the UK-government does indeed feel free to do as it wants. Which is why some of us left the place !

Does anyone know where we can sign-up to any petition ? Maybe the politicians will take up this cause, if they realise how many votes are involved, who knows ?!

[mrbojangles]

Does anyone know where we can sign-up to any petition ? Maybe the politicians will take up this cause, if they realise how many votes are involved, who knows ?!

Here it is Ricardo. It was posted earlier in this thread

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/FAIRPENSIONS/

Get signed up people, even if your'e only in your'e twenties. Think about down the line.

[Tafia]

As some of you maybe aware I don't retire to LOS until early next year. I have been following this subject with interest and you may be interested in questions I asked and answers I received from the Pensions Help Desk.

This seems to be conflicting to what others have posted so maybe the mystery isnt over yet!

My Email

1) At 55 yrs I am able to retire, however my forcast shows that I will

only have 85% of my state pension contribution paid.

a. how am I able to pay additional contributions when I retire?

b. Can I pay it in a lump sum? and

c. How much would it be (approx)?

2) I am currently single and I am thinking of moving abroad when I

retire and I understand that I shall still be able to claim my state

pension.

a. Should I then marry will I be able to draw a married mans allowance

and how do I go about informing you?

b. Will my wife be able to have a widows pension upon my demise even

though she is not a british national?

c. Would you pay the state pension into a foreign bank account?

The Response

Thank you for contacting HMRC Residency.

HMRC Residency (Newcastle) have a UK Retirement Pension Forecast and advice service.

To advise you of your potential pension entitlement following the change in legislation, you need to complete the application form CA3638 which is available to download from our website at: <a href="http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/osc.htm" target="_blank">http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/osc.htm</a>

You would be able to claim a dependant wife increase if you were to marry, and your wife would be able to receive Bereavement Benefit in the event of your death. Your pension could also be paid into a foreign bank account.

HM Revenue & Customs: National Insurance Contributions, Retirement Pension Forecasts and advice for those abroad

Edited October 25, 2007 by Tafia

[Guest jonzboy]

For Kopite

What makes you think you won't receive a basic state pension when you reach 65?

For Tafia

I'm not sure why you think the reply contradicts other advice on this forum. Of course, they did not answer your queries directly, but the questions are fairly simply answered.

If you are not working (retired?) but not yet 65 and still not reached the magic 30 years of NI contributions, you can opt to pay voluntary contributions, at Class 2 or 3 rates. Check the pensionservice website for details. Also, you can pay back the past six years of missed contributions, if you didn't manage full contributions during those years. You can't pay back years missed before this time. If you have 85% of the required years, that's equivalent to 25.5 years. So you are 4.5 years short. At current rates you need to pay about 1,700 pounds in contributions. You can't pay in a lump sum, but can pay monthly by autopay. Simple.

They answered your questions about the potential wife. Of course, they can't discriminate between wives being UK citizens or not.

[macb]

I know this happens with the UK state pension but not, I think, with many occupational pensions.

I know of several ex coppers who live abroad (outside the EC) who get the annual cost of living increase to their superannuation.

Likewise a couple of doctors.

Many final salary pensions have cost-of-living increases and (where these can be paid abroad) I don't think they are penalised.

It's different with the state pension, they eventually get to know if you're an ex-pat, ordinary occupational pensions don't..........unless you tell them.

You are correct, I am a retired Police Officer married to a THai lady and we have a 9 month old daughter, I get a Polioce Pension and so will my wife when I kick the bucket so to speak (Police Widows pension) it is index linked

But they will not pay my pension into Thailand

[astral]

If you are not working (retired?) but not yet 65 and still not reached the magic 30 years of NI contributions

Is it really only 30 years?

I thought it was 40 to get a full pension??

[prakhonchai nick]

If you are not working (retired?) but not yet 65 and still not reached the magic 30 years of NI contributions

Is it really only 30 years?

I thought it was 40 to get a full pension??

If you reach 65 on or after 6th April 2010, then you will only require 30 NI contributions for full state pension. However if you reach 65 before then, 44 contributions are required for 100% pension.

If you have made voluntary contributions, believing 44 would be required, you cannot claim them back

[Mobi]

Seems like I don't read anything anybody posts properly.

Sorry

Edited October 26, 2007 by Mobi

[coventry]

If you are not working (retired?) but not yet 65 and still not reached the magic 30 years of NI contributions

Is it really only 30 years?

I thought it was 40 to get a full pension??

For State Pension purposes your working life is 49 years and is counted from the start of the tax year in which you reach age 16 to the end of the tax year before you reach State Pension age. To get the full amount of Basic Pension you need to have paid or have been credited with enough full rate NI contributions for 44 of those years. These are called Qualifying Years.

[simon43]

What about the situation where you are well short of the required 30 years of NI contributions? Are you still allowed to make additional contributions to 'top-up'? The information seems to indicate that you can only top up for the past 6 years, and are not allowed to top-up for previous years. If that is correct, then someone who has paid eg 20 years of NI contributions would not be able to top-up sufficiently so as to achieve the required 30 years.

I should add that I'm 48 years old now, so have 17 years to go before I'm 65. So I think that it's also possible for me to make voluntary contributions for these future years?

Comments appreciated

Simon

Edited October 27, 2007 by simon43

[Mobi]

What about the situation where you are well short of the required 30 years of NI contributions? Are you still allowed to make additional contributions to 'top-up'? The information seems to indicate that you can only top up for the past 6 years, and are not allowed to top-up for previous years. If that is correct, then someone who has paid eg 20 years of NI contributions would not be able to top-up sufficiently so as to achieve the required 30 years.

I should add that I'm 48 years old now, so have 17 years to go before I'm 65. So I think that it's also possible for me to make voluntary contributions for these future years?

Comments appreciated

Simon

I believe the minimum number of years contributions to recieve a UK State pension is 15 years, so it is well worth your while looking into it. You will not get the full amount but you will receive a proportionate pension depending on the number of years you have contributed.

You can contcat the DWP and they will give you a full forecast on what you will be likely to receive (at today's rates), if you make up past contributions to the extent permitted, and assuming you will continue to contribute until you are 65.

You will now recieve 100% pension after 30 years contibutions - not 44 and not 40. The law was changed earlier this year. See this:

UK PENSIONS

[Guest jonzboy]

there's still obviously a lot of confusion amongst the recent posters

sorry guys, but i have to tell you, if in doubt, check out the pensions service website http://www.thepensionservice.gov.uk/pensions-reform/home.asp

the cut off is now 30 years for a full basic pension for people reaching 65 in 2010 and after (males and females treated equally)

you can pay back up to six years of missing contributions, but only the most recent six years

you can pay voluntary contributions if you are not working in UK (i.e. retired in UK, living overseas working or not, etc)

you can't claim back any contributions if you are now over the 30 years point if those payments were made on the belief you needed 44 years (49 years for people not resident in UK under the old rules)

under the 30 year system you get a proportional pension for ANY amount of contributions (but must be full years), therefore one year's contribution means you get 1/30th of the full basic pension

it's all in the website

[RayBan]

For my penny's worth I think this thread is an excellent debate, especially for those UK expat's like myself here in Thailand that are approaching UK state pension age.

And that is what this is, a discussion and debate of what each of us knows. However the DHSS, like many Government offices, does not readily stand up and tell everyone exactly where they stand, one often has to seek it out personally. Since here in Thailand we do not have the benefit of the "Citizen's Advice Bureau" or the likes to turn to for assistance, well we only have something like this thread on TV to try and help each other. We should not therefore get upset or if one's input is respectfully questioned, it is all about seeking out the true facts through sifting through individual input in this type of debate..........keep it coming.

As a further note on obtaining a pension forecast, I can certainly input the fact that if you are due to reach retirement age on or after April 2010, well a pension forecast will not be available to you until after November 2008. The reason given is that with the recent changes in pensions act, they are currently updating their computers.

Hope this helps.

[Mobi]

For my penny's worth I think this thread is an excellent debate, especially for those UK expat's like myself here in Thailand that are approaching UK state pension age.

And that is what this is, a discussion and debate of what each of us knows. However the DHSS, like many Government offices, does not readily stand up and tell everyone exactly where they stand, one often has to seek it out personally. Since here in Thailand we do not have the benefit of the "Citizen's Advice Bureau" or the likes to turn to for assistance, well we only have something like this thread on TV to try and help each other. We should not therefore get upset or if one's input is respectfully questioned, it is all about seeking out the true facts through sifting through individual input in this type of debate..........keep it coming.

As a further note on obtaining a pension forecast, I can certainly input the fact that if you are due to reach retirement age on or after April 2010, well a pension forecast will not be available to you until after November 2008. The reason given is that with the recent changes in pensions act, they are currently updating their computers.

Hope this helps.

jonzboy

under the 30 year system you get a proportional pension for ANY amount of contributions (but must be full years), therefore one year's contribution means you get 1/30th of the full basic pension

Thank you RayBan and jonzboy for clarifying those points. I thought they may have revised the minimum contribution criteria but wasn't sure.

This is indeed good news for an increasing number of people - some who would have never made the old minimum of 15 years, but can now do some calculations and see if it's worth investing in some back and current contributions.

I did this when I was short of the 44 years (no longer necessary), and found that i only had to live till about 67 to recover my investment. So I suggest some of you long term expats out there do the sums. OK it's not a great deal of money - but every little helps, even if it buys a few beers it's worth it.

[prakhonchai nick]

Just as important as to one's eligibility to state pension, the number of contributions made and other factors is the amount we will receive at the end of the day.

From April 2008, assuming 100% NI contributions (44 years) the basic state pension is increased to £90.70 and the dependents allowance is increased to £54.35...per week

To obtain dependents allowance it is not necessary to be married, only to be able to satisfactorily prove that someone (of either sex) is dependent on you effectively meaning a live in partner. Alternatively it can be claimed for someone who is looking after your children. However I envisage problems trying to prove one has a live in partner.

Pensions and all income derived from the UK is subject to tax, For those 65 and older, and including those who will be 65 at some time during the tax year commencing 6th April 2008, the personal allowance (i.e the amount one can "earn" before paying tax) is being increased by a massive £1,480 to £9,030. Any income above this amount will be taxed at 20%

Anybody requiring to top up national Insurance contributions, particularly those who will be 65 before April 2010 can pay voluntary Class 3 national Insurance contributions. These are currently £7.55 per week increasing to £7.85 from next April. You can normally pay backdated contributions for 6 years, but in addition it is possible to pay contributions for the years 1996-2002 (6 years total) at fixed rates of between £309 and £351 - provided payments are made before 5th April 2009 After this date contributions cannot be accepted for these earlier years. Well worth doing for those who have a shortfall.

Anyone who needs to make so many additional payments can increase pension by approx 30%. The cost involved is likely to repaid in higher pension within 2 years.

[Guest jonzboy]

Great posts from Nick, Mobi and Rayban, thanks guys (gals?).

Having been overseas for over 20 years, this has always been a topic close to my heart (hope it can last out till I'm 67+) having been tipped off about it by a friend. But suprisingly i meet up with so many other expats who know nothing about their rights to a basic UK pension.

Therefore, I'll do whatever i can to keep this topic alive. If it's on the front page more people will hopefully get to see it.

Or even better, maybe the moderator can make it a sticky/pinned item?????

[prakhonchai nick]

An addition to my post of yesterday.

Anyone, currently 65 -71, in receipt of state pension at less than the 100% rate due to insufficient NI contributions, still has the opportunity of making voluntary contributions to increase the basic pension. It's a gamble, but if you think you will live at least 3 years more it will almost certainly be beneficial

[simon43]

Anyone, currently 65-71.....

but if you think you will live at least 3 years .....

[\quote]

Jeez, how depressing. I know the average male life expectancy is probably around 75 years, but it's pretty depressing if you're approaching 65, (which I'm not).

My father died recently at 89, still working on the morning of his death. I really hope that I'll be doing the same, sitting by my hotel swimming poll, tapping on my laptop, chatting to my elderly wife (who'll be 71 when I'm 89!, drinking a beer Lao...)

Totally OT I know, but it's Sunday afternoon and I'm relaxing with a bottle of wine

Simon

[CaptainSplod]

Agree with JONZBOY! A lot of us have been living & working overseas for a large portion of our life and NOT contributing to NI. Probably NOT expecting any kind of pension from the UK, as well - and not knowing sod all about what possibilities there may be of getting any pension. From what I can read here, it appears that one is still entitled to SOME form of pension, even though NI payments have been made for ONE year or more during one's working life! Now, THAT is interesting!!

Only one problem (for me) - I've been away from the UK for so many years (since 1970), I don't have any info on my NI Number any longer - I don't even know if they still USE National Isurance numbers in the UK.

Anyone got any good advice? Should I pay the 6 year back payments (and pay exactly to who?) and hope that I can get that much extras pension when the time comes around? Thanks.

[prakhonchai nick]

Agree with JONZBOY! A lot of us have been living & working overseas for a large portion of our life and NOT contributing to NI. Probably NOT expecting any kind of pension from the UK, as well - and not knowing sod all about what possibilities there may be of getting any pension. From what I can read here, it appears that one is still entitled to SOME form of pension, even though NI payments have been made for ONE year or more during one's working life! Now, THAT is interesting!!

Only one problem (for me) - I've been away from the UK for so many years (since 1970), I don't have any info on my NI Number any longer

If you are 65 after April 6th 2010, then you come under the provisions of the new pension arrangements which require only 30 contributions, and maybe a requirement of only 1 contribution. (Not fully conversant with the new regs)

However if you are 65 before 6th April 2010, then you require 44 contributions for a full pension, and I believe a minimum of 10 to get any pension.

Suggest you go on to the web site /www.thepensionservice.gov.uk/ and use their "contact us" section to ask for advice. Give as much info as you can on your previous addresses and employers in the UK and they should be able to locate your info.

There is no reason why you cannot make payments for the past 6 years + any further years before retirement, and it may be possible to make payments from 1997 too. Well worth looking into. Check it out soon, as they answer very slowly, and as each 6th April comes round you effectively lose a year in which you can make a payment

Edited October 28, 2007 by prakhonchai nick

[Guest jonzboy]

Captain

don't worry about not knowing your NI number

if you ever worked full-time in UK you have one

just give them the fullest details you can remember about yourself, i.e. full name, address at the time, name of employer, whatever you can manage

they'll also want to satisfy themselves that you lived in UK for the three years before you left in 1970

write and ask to start paying your voluntary contributions, NOW