65% Of Voters Ready To Sell Votes

[blaze]

ABAC poll: 65% of respondents ready to sell votes

Enough said. Corrupt people deserve a corrupt government.

Now do the survey in other countries.

Other countries??? Im not sure of your suggestion - but if you are a ferang then obviously you must know that vote buying in the west is unheard of on any measureable scale. Only a backward race would sell out future generations of kin for a few beers!

I don't know where in the west you are from- but in your place of birth, what percent of the eligible voters vote on national let alone provincial/state, municipal elections? Those who don't vote, would, I suspect willingly sell their votes- were they offered the opportunity. The cost however, would be exhorbitant. And, I think that most politicians in the west would not be willing to take the risk- though fifty years ago, it was common place to buy a vote for a bottle of cheap rye where I come from.

Moreover, in the west, there is a practice almost as incidious as vote buying and that is the courting of ethnic/union/interest groups wherein group (community) leaders are courted by political parties expecting them to 'turn over' the votes from the members of that group, upon whom subtle and sometimes not so subtle pressures are applied by the leaders. Not a whole lot different from the courting of village heads in Thailand. Why do you think lobby groups spend so much money courting politicos?

[pointofview]

ABAC poll: 65% of respondents ready to sell votes

Enough said. Corrupt people deserve a corrupt government.

Now do the survey in other countries.

Other countries??? Im not sure of your suggestion - but if you are a ferang then obviously you must know that vote buying in the west is unheard of on any measureable scale. Only a backward race would sell out future generations of kin for a few beers!

I don't know where in the west you are from- but in your place of birth, what percent of the eligible voters vote on national let alone provincial/state, municipal elections? Those who don't vote, would, I suspect willingly sell their votes- were they offered the opportunity. The cost however, would be exhorbitant. And, I think that most politicians in the west would not be willing to take the risk- though fifty years ago, it was common place to buy a vote for a bottle of cheap rye where I come from.

Moreover, in the west, there is a practice almost as incidious as vote buying and that is the courting of ethnic/union/interest groups wherein group (community) leaders are courted by political parties expecting them to 'turn over' the votes from the members of that group, upon whom subtle and sometimes not so subtle pressures are applied by the leaders. Not a whole lot different from the courting of village heads in Thailand. Why do you think lobby groups spend so much money courting politicos?

As i said in a latter post - to think that your vote counts in the west is delusional. I assume from your vocabulary that you are an american, and maybe you understand - that which ever party comes to power the agenda is the same. For eg. both candidates at the last election (Bush and Kerry) are Skull and Crossbones elite members - they both serve the same masters. |Or do you really believe america is a true democracy!

[AlexLah]

When will the Thai people ever learn about cause and effect?

It is just insane you know.

Tried to explain my staff and they just do not get it.

[chao]

actually,if every voter accepts some kind of 'bribery' offered by candidates,then the election outcome will probably not be affected.

The elected probably will get his 'campaign expense' back after assuming office.

However the losers do pay the money from their own pocket,

That's kind of wealth-redistribution,IMO.

Edited October 22, 2007 by chao

[Tony Clifton]

everytime I've gone to the ballot box here, my ballot has been secret. I'd love someone to offer me 700 baht (which I'd gladly take from all commers, in which case you couldn't argue I'd been influenced disproportionatly) and then happily vote for whoever I ###### well felt like.

If there were 5 or 6 parties running, that would be at least 3500 baht.

screw'em all.

The problem, as we have gone over before, is that voting booths aren't always placed as they should, ballots are handed out by village elders and villagers instructed on what to vote (kinda hard to vote for another then unless they smuggle in another ballot and with the agility of a ninja switches it while the elders watch on) to make sure the village as a whole recieves a large kickback.

And at the same time some people feel offended when other countries and organizations offers to send election observers...

They wanted to speed up he cheating process at the last election with the introduction of new paper ballot boxes when the metal ones used just before that were just fine. Also, the introduction of a rubber stamp eased the cheating process by eliminating the uniqueness of a hand written X or check mark, all rubber stamped ballots look the same and unwanted votes can be easily replaced. Some pens available did not work at all and people were forced to use the rubber stamp.

And then they claimed 16 million voters.

Brought to you by TRT and it's bought election commissioners.

Edited October 22, 2007 by Tony Clifton

[jchen]

everytime I've gone to the ballot box here, my ballot has been secret. I'd love someone to offer me 700 baht (which I'd gladly take from all commers, in which case you couldn't argue I'd been influenced disproportionatly) and then happily vote for whoever I ###### well felt like.

If there were 5 or 6 parties running, that would be at least 3500 baht.

screw'em all.

The problem, as we have gone over before, is that voting booths aren't always placed as they should, ballots are handed out by village elders and villagers instructed on what to vote (kinda hard to vote for another then unless they smuggle in another ballot and with the agility of a ninja switches it while the elders watch on) to make sure the village as a whole recieves a large kickback.

And at the same time some people feel offended when other countries and organizations offers to send election observers...

They wanted to speed up he cheating process at the last election with the introduction of new paper ballot boxes when the metal ones used just before that were just fine. Also, the introduction of a rubber stamp eased the cheating process by eliminating the uniqueness of a hand written X or check mark, all rubber stamped ballots look the same and unwanted votes can be easily replaced. Some pens available did not work at all and people were forced to use the rubber stamp.

And then they claimed 16 million voters.

Brought to you by TRT and it's bought election commissioners.

My wife's grandfather said the last election was the 'funniest' he had ever seen. He got a bottle of Saeng Som, a free dinner, AND 500 Baht in a little red envelope. He figures that this is the 'way' it will be this next one too. He doesn't care, this is how it has always been... except before it was a few free drinks for him and the wife at his electioneers house, with some larb, green beans and sticky rice, then 100 Baht each as you left to go home. Needless to say, he likes the new way a whole lot better.

[brahmburgers]

I really wish the Thai people would wake up and do the right thing: get informed and vote for who they believe is the best candidate.

There is so much more gov't could do: they could lift martial law, allow candidates to debate - indeed encourage debates by setting up televised venues. Educate the people about what voting is about.

Candidates are coy about stating their policies. They're also spooked by getting slapped with giant 'defamation of character' lawsuits. Gov't should disallow such lawsuits in the election process.

And yes, all the little people should take bribes , indeed ask for 1500 baht, whatever the market will bear, and then go ahead and vote for who they dam[n] well please. That will curl the socks of the paymasters.

Edited October 22, 2007 by brahmburgers

[Big A]

Say, for example, Party A offered me B500 to vote for them, and Party B offered me B1,000 to vote for them...........who would I vote for?

Party A (as they seem to be the lesser corrupt of the 2!!!!)

[AlexLah]

I am just sick of it you know.

When talking with my team they just say: Yes this is Thai culture.

When will they ever learn start opening their mind?

[Big A]

Oh oh, Alex!! You've opened the flood gates for the 'Well, if you don't like it........you know where to go' brigade!!

[blaze]

I really wish the Thai people would wake up and do the right thing: get informed and vote for who they believe is the best candidate.

They did. In the last three elections. Probably to a degree they never have in the past. And look where that got them.

[meemiathai]

I am just sick of it you know.

When talking with my team they just say: Yes this is Thai culture.

When will they ever learn start opening their mind?

everyone is different and every country is different

Do you understand why a dog barks?

[meemiathai]

Oh oh, Alex!! You've opened the flood gates for the 'Well, if you don't like it........you know where to go' brigade!!

No he hasn't but you have.

[torrenova]

Around 15 years ago my politics lecturer told me a story about an election he witnessed in the USA (southern state).

One guy he knew lived in NYC but went back at the time of this election and was somehow entitled to vote. He voted for the candidate he thought best. The votes counted, his vote was not amongst them. An official had changed it because he "realised" the ovter had made a mistake.

Then JW Bush and family get Jeb Bush to fiddle Florida's votes so that Al Gore doesn't win the presedency of the USA. NO war in Iraq, no mega trillion $ defecit etc.

[Big A]

Oh oh, Alex!! You've opened the flood gates for the 'Well, if you don't like it........you know where to go' brigade!!

No he hasn't but you have.

Yup, and you have the honour to be the first!!

[meemiathai]

Oh oh, Alex!! You've opened the flood gates for the 'Well, if you don't like it........you know where to go' brigade!!

No he hasn't but you have.

Yup, and you have the honour to be the first!!

[meemiathai]

Not everyone understands the meaning of democracy as well as these people.

So it is understandable why votes can be bought in thailand.

[hammered]

everytime I've gone to the ballot box here, my ballot has been secret. I'd love someone to offer me 700 baht (which I'd gladly take from all commers, in which case you couldn't argue I'd been influenced disproportionatly) and then happily vote for whoever I ###### well felt like.

If there were 5 or 6 parties running, that would be at least 3500 baht.

screw'em all.

The problem, as we have gone over before, is that voting booths aren't always placed as they should, ballots are handed out by village elders and villagers instructed on what to vote (kinda hard to vote for another then unless they smuggle in another ballot and with the agility of a ninja switches it while the elders watch on) to make sure the village as a whole recieves a large kickback.

And at the same time some people feel offended when other countries and organizations offers to send election observers...

Excellent point and one that explains why the same candidates almost always win their constituency whatever party they stand under. Control the most village elders etc in your constituency and you win the election. It does nopt rely directly on either policies or direct vote buying in most rural areas.

[Big A]

Not everyone understands the meaning of democracy as well as these people.

So it is understandable why votes can be bought in thailand.

I watched that clip. Disgusting!! These people really are the scum of the earth. These animals don't deserve democracy

[mbkudu]

65% will accept bribes for votes, 52% want government to stop them from selling their own votes, and last, but not least, 83% would not report voting buying if they were aware of an instance of it or witnessed it. Top 5 most popular candidates are: (drum roll........) Abhisit, Chuan, Thaksin, Banharn and Samak. The first 3 are understandable, but the last two? Come on Thai people; switch your brains on please.

[Jai Dee]

Rewards to be offered to fight vote buying

Deputy Prime Minister Sonthi Boonyaratglin approved on Wednesday a master plan to fight money politics, including the offer of rewards for tipsoff on vote buying and a series of awareness campaigns on democratic rule.

Pending the issuing of new regulations, informants might get a percentage from a fine ranging from Bt20,000 to Bt200,000 imposed on vote buyers.

The master plan, mapped out by the committee chaired by Sonthi, comprise two key strategies - one to encourage voters to cast ballots and the other to raise awareness against vote buying.

Source: The Nation - 24 October 2007

[ThaidleHands]

As i said in a latter post - to think that your vote counts in the west is delusional. I assume from your vocabulary that you are an american, and maybe you understand - that which ever party comes to power the agenda is the same. For eg. both candidates at the last election (Bush and Kerry) are Skull and Crossbones elite members - they both serve the same masters. |Or do you really believe america is a true democracy!

Well, good, the Member for Tin-Foil Hatland has cleared that up for us...

[Old Croc]

We're in the middle of an election campaign in Australia currently. Both sides are offering scores of billions of dollars in bribes to try and buy government.

They call them economic policies, but the only real difference with the system in Thailand is they don't hand the money over directly, they give it in tax relief.

[ando]

We all know that direct vote buying has been part of the electoral landscape in Thailand for decades. But on the scale being inferred to in this poll, I dont think so. Perhaps in a few marginal seats OK. 700 baht for every voter in a country of 35 million voters is a lot of money!

Perhaps a few people in marginal electorates is more like it. And knowing how things work in Thailand could anyone say that one side of politics is totally innocent of this practice while the other side is totally guilty?

The military dictatorship junta, are is still holding the half of the country, who are likely to vote against them, under martial law. The military junta is playing up the incidence of vote buying among the poor in Issarn to counter a potential electoral outcome adverse to their wishes. Surely it wouldnt be too hard to find some evidence of vote buying and declare the whole election invalid if the outcome is not to the Juntas liking. It just depends how hard those in power want to look and in what places, --- and of course the outcome of the election.

The whole process of this latest military coup has been for the minority elite to maintain social and political control over the cheap (majority) labour force forom Issarn. Thaskin is just a scapegoat for those other motives. Thaksin is/was just as corrupt as all the other want a be rulers of Thailand. But the thing that set him apart and gave him the political power he attained was his exploitation of the democratic system of government. Unlike his political opponents, Thaksin realized that he had to get the Issarn vote in order to gain and maintain government under a democratic system. He feathered his own nest for sure, which after all is what gaining political power in Thailand is all about anyway, but he did it by offering concessions and advantages to the majority of voters in Issarn to gain the advantage under a democratic system. Of course the opposition alliance comprised of the elite ruling class had no alternative but to regain power by military force. They certainly couldnt have done it democratically.

This up coming election has been groomed with media and military control to get the desired outcome, yet it is still a matter of concern to the Juanita that the people of Issarn will vote for a better deal in life. I am sure that if the junta dont get the outcome they want they will blame vote buying and probably prove it in the courts to make their continued dictatorship look legitamate

[stoneman]

Rewards to be offered to fight vote buying

Deputy Prime Minister Sonthi Boonyaratglin approved on Wednesday a master plan to fight money politics, including the offer of rewards for tipsoff on vote buying and a series of awareness campaigns on democratic rule.

Pending the issuing of new regulations, informants might get a percentage from a fine ranging from Bt20,000 to Bt200,000 imposed on vote buyers.

The master plan, mapped out by the committee chaired by Sonthi, comprise two key strategies - one to encourage voters to cast ballots and the other to raise awareness against vote buying.

Source: The Nation - 24 October 2007

Does anyone really believe that a poor rice farmer in an Issan village is going to turn in the political boss and his people for bribery? He has to live in that village...Will Never Happen

[Big A]

informants might get a percentage from a fine ranging from Bt20,000 to Bt200,000 imposed on vote buyers.

This is going to lead to some first class skull-duggery!!!

[Plus]

Since when election wins obtained through vote buying have been called democratic?

I don't quite understand how is selling votes is a step towards democracy just because it's a move against the junta.

Another point that is lost on me is why do people expect PPP to reduce the role of the military if they win the elections? They will most certainly staff it with their own men and use far more draconian measures than ISOC bill to purge their enemies. That would be a truly "democratic" victory.

The simple fact is that these "democratic" elections elevated the worst sections of Thai society, the real scum, to the halls of power and worship to make a complete mockery of a democracy itself.

Now it's probably too late and the generals are fighting the losing battle - Thais have fully embraced corruption and lies as a way of life. They wanted to build a just and fair society where government actually serves the people but no one wants it anymore.

When Anand warned the people last year that Thailand is becoming a failed state it wasn't only the state that failed, it's the people.

Make no mistake, a society where the only way to the top is at the expense of your compatriots is going to fail and descend in chaos.

[brahmburgers]

65% will accept bribes for votes, 52% want government to stop them from selling their own votes, and last, but not least, 83% would not report voting buying if they were aware of an instance of it or witnessed it.

corruption is built in to the system from the top down. The heavies in Bkk don't want to educate the 'little people' about what democracy is. Partly because they hope to benefit from the graft by (hopefully) playing the game better than the opposition - but aslo for similar reasons that the appointed PM gave in regard to the recent Burma problem - paraphrased: 'how can we tell the little people to be decent when we here at the top are rotten to the core.'

[chownah]

Why not sell your vote? It's a military dictatorship and anyone who will actually represent the people's concerns in gov't are ousted by the military......the vote means nothing anyone within the context of making changes or expressing the will of the peole in any meaningful way.

How many times has the military convened in the workings of gov't since 1900?....see....the vote is meaningless....better to get what you can...a few baht at best.

[hammered]

Rewards to be offered to fight vote buying

Deputy Prime Minister Sonthi Boonyaratglin approved on Wednesday a master plan to fight money politics, including the offer of rewards for tipsoff on vote buying and a series of awareness campaigns on democratic rule.

Pending the issuing of new regulations, informants might get a percentage from a fine ranging from Bt20,000 to Bt200,000 imposed on vote buyers.

The master plan, mapped out by the committee chaired by Sonthi, comprise two key strategies - one to encourage voters to cast ballots and the other to raise awareness against vote buying.

Source: The Nation - 24 October 2007

Does anyone really believe that a poor rice farmer in an Issan village is going to turn in the political boss and his people for bribery? He has to live in that village...Will Never Happen

Exactly