Graduates Of Top Thai Universities

[Monroe]

Monroe's not a mod GH

No, but I am awesome

Just happened to spot it first because I've been on a bit recently (My laptop is mounted on a treadmill so when I'm on TV, I'm jogging, between a trade on ForEx and bleeding techno music out the ears).

To the topic, I wouldn't say I work with these higher-end university graduates, but I do live in proximity. With the exception of my father, the social situation is a bit different for family members. If I haven't seen a particular one of them in more than a couple hours, I'm expected to wai (including, but not limited to as I wake up). I don't mind it at all, but it is a bit different with my other relatives without degrees (even if they still make a reasonable amount of money), I probably only wai once a year.

Somebody lambda this for me.

Regardless, I see it like this (put in WAI):

1. Personal Achievement and/or status

2. Money

3. Degree of Education

Often in combination; 1 and 2 can, on occasion, be switched if a 2 of any given person greatly outweighs the 1 and 2 of another. Otherwise, saying two random people have a relatively proportionate amount of 2, but one of the two has 1, the person with 1 is more likely to have a higher wai ratio.

Rarely does a person have 1, 2 and 3 put together.

[PeaceBlondie]

Excellent discussion, to which I can only raise a question or two, since as the OP mentions, I'm one of those who know no such outstanding higher graduates of such outstanding Thai unis. It's great to know that among 60 million Thais, there are perhaps hundreds with outstanding intelligence, motivation, diligence, and higher education.

Question: will these several hundred Thais with all the right characteristics be allowed to run Thailand, or will they be relegated to the sidelines while lesser mortals make the most important decisions? Even if they are allowed to settle into the highest positions of Thai decision making, will they be able to bring Thailand into the globalized 21st century with its constantly advancing goalposts? Can these few Thais save Thailand?

My American mate was chair of a dept. at the best university in Nicaragua, with all the right Western degrees. He kept hoping that his dept. and his uni would save Nicaragua, but I've always doubted it.

I'm glad to hear that hard-working geniuses in Thailand sometimes are given opportunity. In my novel, two Hill Tribe matayom graduates manage to escape rural Mae Hong Son and apply their genius. One becomes a math teacher; the other marries a Nobel Peace Prize laureate farang.

[Neeranam]

A university education is not just a bit of paper, its a great deal more than that - but then the bit of paper is a great deal more than just a bit of paper - If its the right grade and from the right university then it will open doors closed to those who do not have it. And it is a mistake to believe this is something that only has an impact in the first years of a graduate's career. Graduating from the top international universities opens doors for life - and not just work doors either.

I must say that my B.Eng and MSc from Aberdeen and Edinburgh Unis have been sitting in my drawer for years, without opening doors for me.

I honestly think my 6 years there were a waste of time. They helped for the first job I got for Elf, but after that, experience was more important.

I'd say there are more important factors in opening doors.

There are many world leaders without that seemingly important bit of paper.

Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed didn't get a university education. Steven Hawkings, Picasso, Gahdhi are a few others I know of.

Actually the best jobs I ever got were because of my drinking ability with members of Abdn Grammar School FP rugby club.

Edited October 27, 2007 by Neeranam

[Monroe]

Excellent discussion, to which I can only raise a question or two, since as the OP mentions, I'm one of those who know no such outstanding higher graduates of such outstanding Thai unis. It's great to know that among 60 million Thais, there are perhaps hundreds with outstanding intelligence, motivation, diligence, and higher education.

Question: will these several hundred Thais with all the right characteristics be allowed to run Thailand, or will they be relegated to the sidelines while lesser mortals make the most important decisions? Even if they are allowed to settle into the highest positions of Thai decision making, will they be able to bring Thailand into the globalized 21st century with its constantly advancing goalposts? Can these few Thais save Thailand?

My American mate was chair of a dept. at the best university in Nicaragua, with all the right Western degrees. He kept hoping that his dept. and his uni would save Nicaragua, but I've always doubted it.

I'm glad to hear that hard-working geniuses in Thailand sometimes are given opportunity. In my novel, two Hill Tribe matayom graduates manage to escape rural Mae Hong Son and apply their genius. One becomes a math teacher; the other marries a Nobel Peace Prize laureate farang.

Take any country, the majority of politicians are practically selected from birth and have other things in mind than making things more efficient for the farmers out in the country. The names are too many to list.

It's up to the general population to get educated enough to demand the change they need. That's where schools and teachers come in . It's not enough to teach them calculus, they should be given direction, personal interest and compassion and the skills to spread it.

Best of luck with the book, by the way. If I were to write something it'd probably be detective-themed with a unique plot and twists never used. Something I could hopefully say is exciting and not just another thing off the shelf. Well-written work is often just an indirect reiteration of experience .

[steveromagnino]

Excellent discussion, to which I can only raise a question or two, since as the OP mentions, I'm one of those who know no such outstanding higher graduates of such outstanding Thai unis. It's great to know that among 60 million Thais, there are perhaps hundreds with outstanding intelligence, motivation, diligence, and higher education.

Question: will these several hundred Thais with all the right characteristics be allowed to run Thailand, or will they be relegated to the sidelines while lesser mortals make the most important decisions? Even if they are allowed to settle into the highest positions of Thai decision making, will they be able to bring Thailand into the globalized 21st century with its constantly advancing goalposts? Can these few Thais save Thailand?

Hmmm.

Not sure about 'hundreds'; Sasin alone (business school) has hundreds of Alumni meeting this description and their roll is perhaps 200 a year max.... I think try the phrase 'thousands' or better still 'tens of thousands'. Lawyers alone would be in the thousands. Unless of course you are attempting to cast the aspersion that within all of Thailand 60m people, there are only a few hundred with outstanding intelligence blah blah blah. All depends on how outstanding you mean...if you mean top 1% of population, well just basic maths tell us that is 600,000 people. If we are judging based on true brilliance at an Einstein level....well who knows?! Certainly not any of us!

So..given that we are in fact talking about thousands/tens of thousands and not hundreds... your question as to whether they should be 'allowed to run Thailand'.... I would say in large parts of the economy they already are. The new generation are more educated, more motivated and more willing to just accept competition rather than looking for government handouts. I think you are talking specifically about government; and if the deregulation that began under Chuan 2 continued, it would be less relevant since the majority of what the government supposedly does would have been sold.

I would agree with the poster who said it depends on education levels of the masses who choose their rulers. I also believe that when some of the educated learn to actually look beyond their books and learn how to talk to people without an education, THEN they can run the country. That's what a democracy requires; and also explains why countries like America end up with rulers who are PR machines rather than truely brilliant in any way. e.g. Tony Blair, Bush, Clinton, Reagan, etc - all wonderful PR machines. I can think of very few rulers or senior statemen the world over in democracies that would be considered brilliant at much other than persuasion, public speaking and raising funds.

But.....If you mean the power behind the politicians, the civil servants, business round tables and so on; well then first up many of these organisations already have intelligent smart people running them.

However....Until the politican wannabes learn how to speak, brilliance in any other area counts for naught. And dealing with globalisation? It is hardly rocket science; for a middle sized country like Thailand the formula is fairly easy; the hard bit is selling the pain before the pleasure; mostly in other countries that successfully globalised (Australia, New Zealand, Singapore) they have had a sufficiently strong leader to be able to either force the changes on the country between elections, with enough of a lead time that they could win votes back next election or they aren't a democracy so could do a Singapore or a China. Same as governments who are dealing with undoing all the social welfare policies of the leftwing governments before them; it is mighty hard because they are vote winners; a lot easier in non election periods where you can't get kicked out straight away.

For sure right now in the civil service there is a backlog of deadwood to be removed, and that will only happen with deregulation and privatisation - these will only happen when the poor can be persauded to vote for concepts beyond handouts. And that comes with either education of the masses or the skill of public speaking; something no Thai PM has ever had in recent years (Taksin wasn't that hot either, but comparitively good).

However business success (and thus country success in many ways) only requires a little concentrated brilliance; hubs of activity and core competence as occured in Korea to spring board them forward.

No idea why we need saving; we aren't drowning here. But improved policy and selling those policies would definitely help. A few key people of the new generation should provide that in the not too distant future.

As for TU vs. Chula.... all respect lost for Chula and Kaset when the former PM got his kids in both illegally.... but reality is for certain faculties, TU, Chula, Kaset, Mahidol, Ramkamhaeng all have their place, and all have noteable grads. hel_l, the private unis have the same thing. I've met idiots who somehow have degrees from Oxford, Harvard, etc - university is only one part of making a person successful.

Edited October 29, 2007 by steveromagnino

[simon43]

Are you sure Steve Hawkings did not have a university education. When my middle brother was studying Cosmology at Cambridge University, Dr Steve Hawkings was his personal tutor. Mr brother was the only guy who could still understand Steve when he spoke, (since his powers of speech were rapidly diminishing). They made a 'Man Alive' program about my brother acting as interpreter for Steve

Simon

[roamer]

A university education is not just a bit of paper, its a great deal more than that - but then the bit of paper is a great deal more than just a bit of paper - If its the right grade and from the right university then it will open doors closed to those who do not have it. And it is a mistake to believe this is something that only has an impact in the first years of a graduate's career. Graduating from the top international universities opens doors for life - and not just work doors either.

I must say that my B.Eng and MSc from Aberdeen and Edinburgh Unis have been sitting in my drawer for years, without opening doors for me.

I honestly think my 6 years there were a waste of time. They helped for the first job I got for Elf, but after that, experience was more important.

I'd say there are more important factors in opening doors.

There are many world leaders without that seemingly important bit of paper.

Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed didn't get a university education. Steven Hawkings, Picasso, Gahdhi are a few others I know of.

Actually the best jobs I ever got were because of my drinking ability with members of Abdn Grammar School FP rugby club.

Steven Hawkings graduated from University College Oxford, Gandhi from University College London. Jesus Buddha & Mohammed no doubt would have graduated if they could have found a suitable Uni to attend. You were however correct about Picasso.

[Dissolution]

I'm not so sure about where this thread is heading, but I'll contribute what I can.

The Thai do not take the previously mentioned 'top Unis' and leave it at that. Apparently, there is a 'top Uni' for each field; i.e. Mahidol for medicine, etc. Together with this specialization, graduates from programs that their specific Uni majors in generally get the pick of whatever related job they want.

I'm actually doing a 2nd degree right now in a Thai Uni, and my current girlfriend's graduated from the same one, so... I'd imagine myself to be quite well informed when it comes to dealing with Thai Uni students/grads.

[Prakanong]

I'm not so sure about where this thread is heading, but I'll contribute what I can.

The Thai do not take the previously mentioned 'top Unis' and leave it at that. Apparently, there is a 'top Uni' for each field; i.e. Mahidol for medicine, etc. Together with this specialization, graduates from programs that their specific Uni majors in generally get the pick of whatever related job they want.

I'm actually doing a 2nd degree right now in a Thai Uni, and my current girlfriend's graduated from the same one, so... I'd imagine myself to be quite well informed when it comes to dealing with Thai Uni students/grads.

I hear that too - we use Mahidol for a lot of our clinical trials and the Harvard MBA we had working fror us had a 1st from Chula in Pharmacy which that place is known for.

I also hear lawyers and Accountants from TH but do not work with those.

Out of all of the Thai's I work most closely with only 1 has not got an oversea's degree of some sort though - and even then that 1 is a Chula grad who spent most summers in the USA from early teens or so - her English is good enough so that is why she was the exception.

[Neeranam]

A university education is not just a bit of paper, its a great deal more than that - but then the bit of paper is a great deal more than just a bit of paper - If its the right grade and from the right university then it will open doors closed to those who do not have it. And it is a mistake to believe this is something that only has an impact in the first years of a graduate's career. Graduating from the top international universities opens doors for life - and not just work doors either.

I must say that my B.Eng and MSc from Aberdeen and Edinburgh Unis have been sitting in my drawer for years, without opening doors for me.

I honestly think my 6 years there were a waste of time. They helped for the first job I got for Elf, but after that, experience was more important.

I'd say there are more important factors in opening doors.

There are many world leaders without that seemingly important bit of paper.

Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed didn't get a university education. Steven Hawkings, Picasso, Gahdhi are a few others I know of.

Actually the best jobs I ever got were because of my drinking ability with members of Abdn Grammar School FP rugby club.

Steven Hawkings graduated from University College Oxford, Gandhi from University College London. Jesus Buddha & Mohammed no doubt would have graduated if they could have found a suitable Uni to attend. You were however correct about Picasso.

Well 4 out of 6 ain't bad.

How about Richard Branson?

[thedude]

i run a small investment team that looks at real estate development deals generally in the baht 2 billion and up category. i have over the last 5 years employed about 7 graduates, about half being american MBAs from middle tier universities and the rest being local graduates typically with a masters in finance or MBA from top local universities like chula or thammasat. i only hire thai-chinese, and they are typically middle class, female and in their late 20s to early 30s.

my experience has been that the local grads are very meticulous, methodical, tidy, hard-working, accurate and timely in their work, and i find them to be generally more dependable and consistent on routine work output with fairly knowable results compared to the american grads, for example in desktop research, data review and analysis and reporting. the thai grads are also more attentive, caring and personable and easy to work with.

the american grads i've had are however much more creative, independent, problem-solving, fast-learning, flexible, cunning, direct, and outspoken, and they can read situations and strategise without prompting. as a result, i find myself more willing to allocate larger, outward facing "projects" to the american grads because they will grab it by its neck and run with it. whereas the thai grads tend to come back regularly when they hit a brick wall, the american grads would often dissappear for long periods and only appear when they reach a decision point, whereupon a whole series of alternatives would be presented - ie they not only work around brick walls, but they find other options along the way. where the american grads would often highlight to me things i had not thought of myself, i find myself highlighting things to the thai grads so they can continue down the road.

this is not a criticism of any one type of graduate over another, but it does highlight that thai graduates do have a certain number of typical or distinct traits as compared to american grads, and this comes down to the culture and education system. very often you'd find that each sort of graduate is more suitable for a certain type of work as compared to others. having said that, as managers it is our job to wean the best out of our team and see if a bit of coaching or mentoring can open up other dimensions to them.

which type of graduate would be more successful? while the ameircan grads are typically more big-picture and flexible and may seem more natural leaders, you cannot discount the soft touch of diplomacy which the better thai graduates can possess which is very necessary to navigate complex political interests in the higher echelons of corporate leadership. the culture of the organisation is very important too, which is why we see both sorts in business leadership.

[disgruntled]

It seems the great minds of the world have solved the problems of the great minds of the world but for some reason they never seem to solve the problems of the rest of the world.

[jetjock]

i run a small investment team that looks at real estate development deals generally in the baht 2 billion and up category. i have over the last 5 years employed about 7 graduates, about half being american MBAs from middle tier universities and the rest being local graduates typically with a masters in finance or MBA from top local universities like chula or thammasat. i only hire thai-chinese, and they are typically middle class, female and in their late 20s to early 30s.

my experience has been that the local grads are very meticulous, methodical, tidy, hard-working, accurate and timely in their work, and i find them to be generally more dependable and consistent on routine work output with fairly knowable results compared to the american grads, for example in desktop research, data review and analysis and reporting. the thai grads are also more attentive, caring and personable and easy to work with.

the american grads i've had are however much more creative, independent, problem-solving, fast-learning, flexible, cunning, direct, and outspoken, and they can read situations and strategise without prompting. as a result, i find myself more willing to allocate larger, outward facing "projects" to the american grads because they will grab it by its neck and run with it. whereas the thai grads tend to come back regularly when they hit a brick wall, the american grads would often dissappear for long periods and only appear when they reach a decision point, whereupon a whole series of alternatives would be presented - ie they not only work around brick walls, but they find other options along the way. where the american grads would often highlight to me things i had not thought of myself, i find myself highlighting things to the thai grads so they can continue down the road.

this is not a criticism of any one type of graduate over another, but it does highlight that thai graduates do have a certain number of typical or distinct traits as compared to american grads, and this comes down to the culture and education system. very often you'd find that each sort of graduate is more suitable for a certain type of work as compared to others. having said that, as managers it is our job to wean the best out of our team and see if a bit of coaching or mentoring can open up other dimensions to them.

which type of graduate would be more successful? while the ameircan grads are typically more big-picture and flexible and may seem more natural leaders, you cannot discount the soft touch of diplomacy which the better thai graduates can possess which is very necessary to navigate complex political interests in the higher echelons of corporate leadership. the culture of the organisation is very important too, which is why we see both sorts in business leadership.

I am very impressed with your very astute observations and agree with your analysis of how the cultural differences come into play. My Thai wife has a MSc from Mahidol ( considered top university in Thailand for medical research) and I have noticed since she has been in the US and is around more westernized thinking, her business attitude has been gradually changing and she is becoming more creative and looking at things more from the big picture aspect.

[Tinkelbell]

quoted ........" Apparently, there is a 'top Uni' for each field; i.e. Mahidol for medicine, etc. Together with this specialization, graduates from programs that their specific Uni majors in generally get the pick of whatever related job they want.

................................................................................

...

Well said !

Thammasart is known for producing top rated Law School ( Thais call kana Nitisart), Accountant School (kana Bunshe) and Political Science School ( kana Rattasart). You would find those who graduated went on to work in govt or private own.

Looking at the TU alumni book in the period of 1998 and upwards. More than half of TU holding top positions in govt high ranks. Almost fifty provinces - Governors and Nai Umphers were from TU.

Chula produces good school for engineering. Its School of Arts is quite top too.

[Ijustwannateach]

Are you sure Steve Hawkings did not have a university education. When my middle brother was studying Cosmology at Cambridge University, Dr Steve Hawkings was his personal tutor. Mr brother was the only guy who could still understand Steve when he spoke, (since his powers of speech were rapidly diminishing). They made a 'Man Alive' program about my brother acting as interpreter for Steve

Simon

Did your brother have long hair at the time? I remember seeing some of those documentaries about Hawking and the grad student interpreting looked a bit hippyish, in a good way...

"S"