Pattaya Immigration New Visa Rules Changes

[pontious]

As far as I can see no TV member has been asked for a copy of their ATM / Credit card in Jomtien this week - good , hopefully it will just go away. ( but at the end of the day, even though no one would volunteer such informaion, if they ask for one we will just have to comply with the card of least exposure.)

More nauseus is the requirement for Gustav and Scotman to get a MFA stamp on the 'pension /income verification letter. ( Scotman didn't in the end I know as he went to 'retirement')

This would seem to only apply to 'marriage to thai' extensions as Scotman I suspect still used his 'pension income verification letter' to form part of the income requirements for retirement but did not have to go to BKK to get the MFA stamp.

Advice to get a lawyer to translate etc did not work. Jomtien insisted they go to MFA in BKK for stamp.

Has anyone else applying for an extension this week ( based on marriage to thai) had the same problems.

On these two members experience it would imply a new rule.

[redwood13]

Which honorary consul in Pattaya, according to posts in this forum, spends some time at the Jomtien immigration office most mornings? Could he be the “spokesman” referred to in the article in Pattaya Today?

Which honorary consul in Pattaya writes articles for Pattay Today? Could he be the person who wrote the article “Retirement visa new rule” published in Pattaya Today on 31 October 2007? There is no name in the bye-line of this article, only “Posted by Admin/ 31. October 2007, 21:14”

--

Maestro

"Barry Kenyon, Honorary Consul for British nationals in Pattaya & Manager of Pattaya Today Newspaper is......................"

The above quote and a photo of Barry Kenyon appear about three quarters of the way down the link, and though I looked through the latest copy of Pattaya Today I can't find the masthead, so I can't verify the quote.

-redwood

[Jingthing]

There is now a credible fresh report on another board about someone applying for a retirement extension based on a pension being asked for a copy of a credit or ATM card at Jomtien.

So for now, I was wrong. Lets see whether this new Mickey Mouse privacy-compromising rule lasts. I think my suggestion is still good, bring in a copy, but don't give it unless explicitly demanded.

So, to Pattaya Today, you were right, this time, for now. But you still aren't a real newspaper. Have you run one story on the overwhelming demand for Bangkok style taxi meters in Pattaya, and what are you afraid of?

Edited November 2, 2007 by Jingthing

[grahamhc]

From this week's Pattaya City Expat Club's newsletter, dated Oct. 28 to Nov 4, 2007:

NEW VISA RULES CHANGES – Last week’s Newsletter and the linked website did not show the source of our information on the new rules change. This information came from Barry Kenyon, Honorary Consul for the British Embassy and Managing Director of Pattaya Today. We have found that Barry’s information on Thai Immigration matters is reliable. Further, a member that recently renewed his retirement visa at Pattaya Immigration confirmed that he was required to provide a copy of a card. We are not sure whether providing a copy of either a credit card or an ATM debit card applies only to those renewing on the basis of “income” or whether it also applies if using the 800,000 Baht in a Thai Bank. Also, because this change has generated an enormous amount of comment at last week’s Open Forum as well as on several Internet message boards, Barry Kenyon will be at this coming Sunday’s meeting to provide what information he has on the new rules. We will appreciate receiving any information from members or others on their experience with this new requirement or any other changes by email to

[Jingthing]

OK, this is looking real now.

Glad I didn't say I would eat my hat if I was wrong, because even a good red curry can't disguise the disgusting taste of sweaty hat.

The question I have now is if you show 800K baht here and qualify on that, do they still need a card copy? Because the case I know about was for a pension qualifier and that makes a little more sense, just a little.

Edited November 2, 2007 by Jingthing

[longball53098]

OK, this is looking real now.

Glad I didn't say I would eat my hat if I was wrong, because even a good red curry can't disguise the disgusting taste of sweaty hat.

The question I have now is if you show 800K baht here and qualify on that, do they still need a card copy? Because the case I know about was for a pension qualifier and that makes a little more sense, just a little.

Comments deleted as not relevant to this topic

[scotsman]

What the pattaya immigration is asking for if its true is illegal, As any credit card or Atm with a visa logo on it you have to sign an agreement not to disclose this information So now they want us to break the law If I am forced to do this I will ask bangkok bank if I can do this, if they tell me yes. Then I will copy my Atm card but remove my 3 dig no from the rear of my card, I trust no one when it comes to money. We have read many stories in the newspaper about peoples bank accounts being used by other people and they have no idea how they did it but the Thai banks & police will do nothing. So you have to protect yourself even from the immigration. Its also another good reason not to have any money in a Thai bank account. I know I will open another account with a different bank and transfer my money into that one and leave my bangkok bank one empty until its my renewal time then transfer in then out again problem solved I hope.

[JetsetBkk]

ATM cards frequently double up as Visa Electron Cards. My K bank ATM cards do, <snip>

My bank has ATM cards for 150 baht and Visa Electron cards for 250 baht. I only have an ATM card, specifically because I wouldn't worry too much if it was lost/stolen.

Also, the bank has never given me a new one for free like most banks/credit card companies do in the UK. I went to the bank this week to ask about it, and the look on the girl's face when I asked "why don't you give customers a new one for free" was priceless.

My current ATM card - 4 years old - is looking distinctly worn out, but fortunately it still works. I guess I'll have to cough up 150 baht soon.

Edited November 2, 2007 by JetsetBkk

[Jingthing]

Does anyone know if the card has to have your NAME printed on it?

My Siam Commercial ATM card has no name, but of course is signed by me.

As far as the privacy issue is concerned, if they let us blank out the last digits and security code, that is probably OK. It wouldn't hurt to whinge a little about this and let them know why we don't like it.

Edited November 2, 2007 by Jingthing

[pontious]

We seem to have cleared the air regarding credit/atm cards.

If you have to: use the least creditworthy one. Dont offer it.

What about the MFA stamp on pension verification letters for those applying to extend on basis of marriage to thai.

That , although discounted several weeks/ posts ago has raised its head again. That will be a real pain in the a***

This is not a rumour it has happened to two TV members in Jomtien recently.

The advice from mods to get a lawyers letter / translation etc was not acceptable to immigration.

( this applies to Jomtien office at the moment I expect - more tourist's here apparently!)

[lopburi3]

The mods advised using a translation service to forward the materials for MFA certificate (as they already have the knowledge where and how and do for marriage paperwork), not that a translation service document would be accepted.

[pontious]

The mods advised using a translation service to forward the materials for MFA certificate (as they already have the knowledge where and how and do for marriage paperwork), not that a translation service document would be accepted.

Lopburi 3 -with respect 'George' wrote on 25/10/07 "save your trip to Bangkok- any decent translation company in Pattaya, or elsewhere, can fix this for you with a letter of attorney."

He did not say what you have said above. It may mean that to experts but I would have done what Scotsman did.

Edited November 2, 2007 by pontious

[SurfRider]

The credit card requirement for a retirement visa sounds like some renegade yahoo run amok and would be legally challenged and shot down in any western country in a nano-second --

If it prevails, best solution would be to open a local account with a minimum deposit - provide the mickey-mouse copy of the ATM card, then cancel the account --

[Jingthing]

For now, lets see if they let us black out the security codes and last digits of the number on the front.

Also, we can hope they might come to their senses and learn about the legit objections to this new silliness.

Edited November 2, 2007 by Jingthing

[SurfRider]

There's a huge black-market in Asia for the type of information that they're requiring retirees to divulge --

I strongly suspect that any deference to "legit objections" would be far superceded by their desire to obtain the data --

[Jingthing]

There's a huge black-market in Asia for the type of information that they're requiring retirees to divulge --

I strongly suspect that any deference to "legit objections" would be far superceded by their desire to obtain the data --

Not even I am as cynical and paranoid to think this policy is being implemented to steal our money. Its just that they are totally insensitive to our legit fears that we should not be giving out this info other than when we make actual purchases. Don't these guys have credit cards and understand this?

[SurfRider]

I'm not inferring that it's necessarily their official intent to steal the data that should remain confidential --

But once it's divulged, it could become available to anyone in the office-- including many non-official employees, interns, couriers, other assorted unknown employees in Pattaya, Bangkok, etc.

Identity theft is a very big ugly expensive problem -- do a search on it if you want to read some real horror stories --

It can take years to clean up the mess once the data is out there --

[lopburi3]

And you do not provide this same information opportunity every time you use a credit card to buy your burger? It seems to be a needless requirement but it is not the end of the world. The other information in your file would be much more useful if anyone wanted to "steal" your identity.

[SurfRider]

Unfortunately, the answer to your query is yes and no.

Maybe you do provide it to buy a burger, I don't -- not in Thailand!

But if you choose to, at least it's for a legitimate understandable purpose and it's traceable to a specific transaction and location.

There is no justifiable purpose for Immigration to collect this private confidential information.

Once this information is in the hands of a devious "professional" it becomes a breeder-hook into a series of confidential databases that will reveal far more about you and your family you may even know about yourself.

Trust me, I've seen it done.

It's only the tip of the iceberg.

[MaHaBone]

My comment on Thursday experience at Jomtien:

... I used the money in bank rule again (800K) and not the monthly income rule. I was not asked to show any credit cards which are the only way I bring money into Thailand...

I bring my money into Thailand annually via telegraphic transfer ensuring that at least 800K is in my bank acc 3 months prior (retirement) visa renewal date. Aside from the bank letter confirming account balance, one should also ask the bank for the Credit Advice/Receipt indicating details of the money transfer such as amount/date/purpose of transfer etc. which should be made available to the Immigration Authorities as well.  

[Jingthing]

ask the bank for the Credit Advice/Receipt i

True, it is a good idea to collect these and file them away. However, I suggest not offering these to immigration unless demanded, and I don't think it is usually being asked for. In my recent case, not asked for.

Edited November 3, 2007 by Jingthing

[Mobi]

Whenever I transfer large sums, I receive a fax from Kasikorn Bank Foreign Exchange dept at their BKK head office showing full details of the amount transferred, including the transferor bank, the amount in sterling, the exchange rate used, and, critically - the purpose of the transfer which is shown as "living Expenses & Retirement Visa requirements".

I've never had to show it, but it's in my files if required.

[Jingthing]

I am just trying to promote the practice of be prepared for anything, but only hand over what is explicitly demanded. Kind of like playing poker?

[Mobi]

I am just trying to promote the practice of be prepared for anything, but only hand over what is explicitly demanded. Kind of like playing poker?

Agreed - hence the notation on my bank transfers

[jackspratt]

What the pattaya immigration is asking for if its true is illegal, As any credit card or Atm with a visa logo on it you have to sign an agreement not to disclose this information So now they want us to break the law

I doubt whether it breaks any law, unless Thailand has some surprisingly advanced privacy laws. In this case it would not be "illegal" for Immigration to ask for the information.

On the other hand, by providing the information you may be breaching the terms of your contract with the card provider, which is a civil issue, and not a criminal one.

[mike_rad]

Stuff 'em.

I'd say, "sorry, I haven't got a credit card". What are they gonna do then? Lots of people get on quite well without them.

Honestly, I can't believe the crap they're coming out with!

-

Edited November 3, 2007 by mike_rad

[Maestro]

I doubt whether it breaks any law, unless Thailand has some surprisingly advanced privacy laws. In this case it would not be "illegal" for Immigration to ask for the information.

It is not the law (Immigration Act) but Royal Thai Police Order 606/2549 that enters into the discussion.

Basis for Consideration

(3) Proof of income of not less than Baht 65,000 per month; or

(4) Account deposit with a bank in Thailand of not less than Baht 800,000 as shown in bank account transactions for the past 3 months; or

(5) Annual income plus bank account deposit totaling not less than Baht 800,000 as of the filing date of application

Documents Required

1. Application form

2. Copy of the applicant's passport

3. Proof of income, e.g., retirement pension, interest earnings or dividends, etc.; and/or

4. Certificate of local bank account deposit together with copies of bank account records

If a copy of a credit card is evidence of income or evidence of funds in a bank account, then the immigration officer has the lawful right to ask for it. Personally, I do not see that a credits card is such evidence.

--

Maestro

[Sunny Valentine]

I will contact my (UK) Bank and ask them specifically if the case of giving a copy of my Credit Card constituates a breach of the agreement. I will also provide them with a link to the Pattay People ar

ticle, and mention the name of the British Consul providing this information. Will also provide Links to the published Royal Police Order (which does not mention the requirement) ans ask them how to proceed. In case they confirm it is ok and safe for me to do, I will. In case they object, I will ask them for a written and signed statement saying so.

If lots of guys are doing that, I guess there is a possibility that the Credit Card Companies will start asking questions to Thailand Immigration .....

Sunny

[astral]

If a copy of a credit card is evidence of income or evidence of funds in a bank account, then the immigration officer has the lawful right to ask for it. Personally, I do not see that a credits card is such evidence.

Not if the card is maxed out.

[Pattaya46]

Such a long discussion for... nothing !

Not any info from the Immigration, from Sunbelt or even from the Bangkok Post,

but only an anonymous email of the "Pattaya City Expats Club's" newsletter !

Please be serious.

I do not understand why moderators did not close this thread long time ago already...