Work Permit Using Retirement Visa

[thainet]

I believe that new people wishing to work in Thailand must obtain a Non-Imm B before the process can begin, but I have been here many years on a combination of 1yr marriage/retirement visas (now the latter), but wish to work for a Thai organisation for a year or two and have been told that a Work permit can be issued using this type of visa, as you are already in the system so to speak. Any ideas on this??.

Another thing is that I want to obtain my resident permit this year or next and therefore don't want to give up my many years of continuous 1yr visas to obtain a Non-Imm B for a WP, as that would nullify my continuity.

Would appreciate any information on this. Thanks....

[lopburi3]

At last report a work permit will not be issued for a retirement extension of stay - it can be issued on a non immigrant O visa or extension of stay for family.

[Kruang]

At last report a work permit will not be issued for a retirement extension of stay - it can be issued on a non immigrant O visa or extension of stay for family.

Lopburi3's sage advice is always dependable, but in this case I think a quibble is in order. The labor department will grant work permits to holders of non immigrant O visas, true. But a so-called retirement visa is just another kind of non immigrant O visa. Whether you'll get a work permit on a non-O based on retirment is up to your local labor department. I obtained a work permit on such a visa about 18 months ago, and then switched to the so-called marriage visa on my next extension. My local immigration office assured me that I could get another work permit if I chose a retirement visa again, since the government really likes foreigners to put 800,000 baht in a Thai bank. But you'll need to check with the labor department where you live to find out how they handle these cases. From my understanding there is nothing in the law that says that holders of non-imm O visas based on retirement are ineligible for work permits.

[lopburi3]

The retirement visa (long stay actually) is an O-A visa not O. If you just have an O visa (90 day stay) it is generic (other) and is not tied to anything and can be used to obtain a work permit - but if you have extended that stay for retirement a work permit will not be issued at last report (least year they were doing so - recently they stopped).

[Kruang]

The retirement visa I received at the Suan Phlu office in November 2005 was marked "Non O" above the visa stamp and stamped "Retirement" below the officer's signature. On the basis of that visa I was able to obtain a work permit. Perhaps the situation has changed. But an immigration officer tried to encourage me to apply for a retirement visa at my last extension, instead of using the 40k per month employment income for the so-called marriage visa. When I told him I thought I couldn't work if I held a retirement visa, he said it was no problem. But I didn't take his advice and try it.

[lopburi3]

I believe you will find, if you obtained a non immigrant O visa from immigration, it was single entry and only valid for a 90 day stay and cost an extra 2,000 baht and that you then extended your stay on a yearly basis at a cost of 1,900 baht later. There is no visa status to the extension of stay - only the original non immigrant visa entry. As I mentioned - work permits were being issued for awhile but it, at last report, has stopped.

Most people enter the country with a non immigrant visa so the only stamp from immigration will be the extension of stay and the reason for the extension of stay (retirement).

[ProThaiExpat]

This thead is on the way to be long and very confusing.

It has long been established that non-imm-O visa holders that extend that visa based on retirement are not permitted to work.

Lopburi3 please confirm!

When posters speak of extensions as being visas, it just creates confusion.

[Kruang]

This thead is on the way to be long and very confusing.

It has long been established that non-imm-O visa holders that extend that visa based on retirement are not permitted to work.

Lopburi3 please confirm!

When posters speak of extensions as being visas, it just creates confusion.

I apologize for creating confusion. Lopburi3 is correct -- I had a non-imm-O visa, then extended it on the basis of retirement. Then I was granted a work permit (in July 2006) on the basis of that non-imm-O visa extended on the basis of retirement. At the time, the labor dept said they only cared about the fact that I had a non-imm-O visa (and met the other requirements for a work permit). I don't know if it is still possible to do this, but an immigration officer recommended the option to me again last month. So with all due respect, not everyone would agree that it has long been established that this is impossible.

[Maestro]

The operative words being “at that time”, ie July 2006.

--

Maestro

[RickFarang]

This is a really serious matter. I hope you will talk this over with immigration in Bangkok and the labor department before you do anything.

[monty]

If I understand correctly, according to the law, when you extend your visa based on retirement, a work permit cannot be obtained (you're retired aren't you?).

However up till not too long ago, labour department with their discretionary powers often approved work permits for people in the above scenario.

Nowadays it seems that the labour department has been instructed to follow the law and NOT issue work permits for people on an extension of stay based on retirement (as confirmed by Sunbelt Asia on this board).

It would not be wise to go with the advice given by the immigration officer, since it's not their office approving or refusing work permits! The correct answer will have to come from the labour department!

[Kruang]

There is an ambiguity in the law that has resulted in the labor department sometimes granting work permits to people with Non-Imm visas extended on the basis of retirement.

Some people hold Non-Imm O-A visas granted abroad. Those visas are usually marked "employment prohibited" and the immigration law states very clearly that you can't work on such a visa. No ambiguity there.

Some people hold Non-Imm O visas extended on the basis of retirement. The extension stamps do not appear to be marked "employment prohibited" (at least mine was not). The labor law says that holders of Non-Imm O visas are eligible for work permits, so the labor department doesn't violate the letter of the law if they grant a work permit to someone who holds a Non-Imm O visa extended on the basis of retirement. In my case they just checked to see that I had a valid Non-Imm O visa.

It could fairly be argued that the labor department violates the spirit of the law when they do that, since the language of the law for the O-A visa indicates that the Thai government doesn't want retired foreigners working. They want them spending money brought from abroad.

Reports are that the labor department has tightened up on the ambiguous case, but it would be good to hear reports from people who inquired about this at the labor department in their province.

[Tu02]

It is my understanding that work permits are not given to tourists, nor people with Non O-A (retirement) Visas.

It is also my understanding that Thai law defines work as any expenditure of physical and/or mental effort, thus making it illegal to volunteer without a work permit. This regulation caused some furore several years ago when tourists were volunteering after the tsunami and the Labor Ministry made a statement, reported widely in the newspapers, that all volunteers needed work permits or they were in breach of Thai law. Obviously, the official was overruled, but the law was no changed.

I hold a retirement visa. At the time of my last extension I chatted with one of the senior Immigration Officers and was told that the reason for this regulation was to prevent abuse by folks volunteering on paper, but using the Work Permit to avoid making Visa runs. I was told that the law still stands and I cannot legally volunteer. However, searching for folks in my situation was not a high priority. I was given the name card of the Officer including home telephone and mobile should I be discovered volunteering.

So like many laws and regulations in any country, enforcement can be discretionary.

I mention this detail as an affirmation of those writers who say that after the initial extension of a Non - A B visa, the extension is for a given catagory. It is certainly possible that an Immigration Officer may allow a work permit for the holder of a retirement visa, but it's not in accordance with the rules. The correct way would be to leave the country, obtain another initial Non A, non B visa and on the first extension, ensure that you are granted the extension in a catagory that permits you to hold a work permit.

[lopburi3]

It is certainly possible that an Immigration Officer may allow a work permit for the holder of a retirement visa

Immigration does not issue work permits.

[monty]

To prevent abuse by folks volunteering on paper, but using the Work Permit to avoid making Visa runs.

People volunteering would not be able to get a 1 year extension (to avoid visa runs), since there are quite a few financial criteria to be fulfilled to get that extension. Minimum salary depending on your nationality is one of them, along with minimum reported earnings of your employer in the previous financial year etc.

I'm not sure if exceptions are made for volunteers, but it's doubtful that volunteering a few hours a week (or month) would suddenly make you eligible for a 1 year extension!

[simon43]

I know several people aged 50+, who are staying in Thailand on O/A visas, and extending these each year with 800,000 baht in the bank etc, AND are also working with a work permit having been issued by the Labour department

Simon

[lopburi3]

And nobody is saying that is not the case - what is the case now is that new issues are not be made (at last report). Being Thailand this could change without notice or not be true everywhere - but believe it is very unlikely to happen currently.

[nanyang]

I'll be in a position to let you know what's what quite soon.

I'm currently on a non O extension as a retiree.

However, I've signed a contract to work as a teacher and my work permit and teacher's licence are being processed.

I'll keep you posted as to whether or not I have to leave this country etc. etc.

Many 'decisions' here are based on local interpretations, hence the varying responses on this thread, and the 'palm greasing' factor.

[HAL9000]

The retirement visa I received at the Suan Phlu office in November 2005 was marked "Non O" above the visa stamp and stamped "Retirement" below the officer's signature. On the basis of that visa I was able to obtain a work permit. Perhaps the situation has changed. But an immigration officer tried to encourage me to apply for a retirement visa at my last extension, instead of using the 40k per month employment income for the so-called marriage visa. When I told him I thought I couldn't work if I held a retirement visa, he said it was no problem. But I didn't take his advice and try it.

I've gotten this story twice. Both Tak and Bangkok encouraged me to switch from the Non-O based on marriage to the Retirement Visa. When we brought up the question about a work permit with the retirement BKK told me it was up to the labor dept, but I too did not want to test that theory. I was thinking they were encouraging the retirement visa because it reduces the work load of the immigration office since the other visa requires a return trip to the immigration office, review by a higher official, and a local investigation.

John