"thai Women Vs Farang Women"

[canadiangirl]

Eek has pointed out an interesting contradiction.

It was claimed that Thais form relationships with foreigners because those Thais long for improved "status". But it becomes clear that some are terrified of having Thai achieve this status .

Must we conclude that some foreigners have no interest in helping Thais improve their "status" and - indeed - that this would be in active opposition to those foreigners' (self) interests ?

An interesting question. This is very true in some cases.

Think of the "knights in shining armor" who want to rescue their tee rak from that horrible bar where they met her and probably paid for her company -- in my experience, the "savior" types who base their relationships on saving their partner don't want their partner to really get better -- because it destroys their identity as the benevolent, kind savior.

Also think of the economic inequality that props up so many of the situations that men like about Thailand -- old dating young, ugly dating beautiful -- if the baht were at par with our Western currencies tomorrow, how many of those relationships would disappear?

From reading this board, inequality and a sense of power in their relationships is exactly what attracts many farang to Thailand for relationships. Do they want to see that inequality go away?

There was an interesting post a few days back on the gay forum, from a gay Thai man who was well-off, handsome and educated in the West, who liked dating farang men, and on returning to BKK just could not get a date! He was even told outright by some men that they just really preferred the 20 year old issan guys straight off the rice paddy, because they (farang) didn't need to put as much effort into the relationship, and found that they were easier to control and deal with. They flat out said that they weren't interested in a relationship of equals. The post struck me because I see parallels between his situation and that of farang women in Thailand.

[JimmyCA]

Well, I don't see why a western man can't prefer a Thai woman, I am married to a Thai man and find most western men too fat, too hairy and too macho for my personal tastes. But those are my tastes and I certainly don't expect anyone else to share them nor do I condemn anyone who doesn't, nor do I attack western men simply because they aren't my taste.

And that appears to be the problem here, why can't you just say "hey, I prefer Thai women" and leave it at that? Why the need to take your personal issues out on some total stranger on this board simply because she is a woman?

SBK, I know many farang men who are not fat, hairy or macho, in fact the majority of farang men are not fat, hairy or macho. For whatever reason the farangs who meet your personal tastes didn't result in a match so you wound up with a Thai. Maybe you found a greater selection of Thai men whom you find appealing and were interested in you. So your situation is basically the same as the farang men who wind up with Thai women. Takes two to tango.

[qwertz]

Hey qwertz!

always good to hear you appreciate us farang girls! smile.gif

xoxox -- canadiangirl

CG, it's a boy thing - giving importance to the cosmetically pleasing and ignoring the quality (or lack of it) within.

For too many men, the nice packaging is more important than the actual contents.

Sorry guys but although I admit to being partial to pretty faces and trim bodies too, there's got to be more

to a woman if I spend more than one night (and X amount of bucks) with her.

P.S. Edonista, I may be wrong but I have the strong impression that Blizz belongs to an obscure

Scandinavian tribe, possibly Lapp.

Edited November 1, 2007 by qwertz

[Suszzy]

wow..7 pages!

so far so good..

[qwertz]

wow..7 pages!

so far so good..

What's up Suszzy?

Are my requirements too high for you?

Or are intelligence plus good appearance a rare commodity?

[wolfmanjack]

Western guys are just plain lazy.

Please tell me this is a joke. Or clarify it by letting us know who the standard is because i have gone through over 200 workers in the last 8 years here in thailand and can count the number that were not lazy on my left hand.

[Momo8]

Lazy in the relationship department.Lets's see what is the 'average' Aussie bloke? This is from an article in the Telegraph.

The demise of the Aussie bloke

The traditional sheila no longer knows her place and Oz's macho men have been left dazed, confused… and whingeing. Phillip Knightley investigates how this embarrassing turn of events came aboutOne of the saddest things in my lifetime has been the decline in Australian male culture, the loss of our larrikin language and values," writes Mark Latham, former leader of the Australian Labor Party, in a new book.

"Mates and good blokes have been replaced by nervous wrecks, metrosexuals and nerds."

No, Mark. You've got it all wrong – it's the women, not the men, who've changed.

And if your average Aussie male has become a bit more retiring, a bit less interested in women, beer and barbecues, then it's the Australian sheilas and political correctness that are to blame.

Take, for example, the new ruling announced this week by Cricket Australia making it an offence to call an English person a "whingeing Pom" (although Pom by itself is still acceptable).

It removes at a stroke what Australian men consider as their right to denigrate males of all other nationalities.

Add to that the growth of feisty, independent, well-educated and ambitious women prepared to postpone marriage and children to pursue a career and it's no wonder that your traditional Australian male – the Crocodile Dundees or Shane Warne types who exemplify typical "ocker" values – feel unwanted. (Let's ignore Warne's teased and highlighted hair and that earring for the moment.)

Indeed, unable to relate to this new, liberated Australian woman, Aussie men have been opting for women who are traditionally seen as more submissive, on the surface at least.

They are marrying Chinese, Thai and Filipina women in greater numbers than ever before – such marriages increased fourfold in the past decade.

As a result, more and more Australian women are living alone – up 20 per cent in six years – and they now outnumber men living alone.

The combination of more available women than men, an increase in the number of gay men and shorter marriages mean that eligible men are now in short supply in Australia.

Thousands of women are said to have emigrated in search of a date.

Visitors have been quick to notice the change. "Dateless and desperate," said English writer Kathy Gyngell about her Australian cousins.

Gyngell wanted to know why so many dignified, smart Australian women who had rewarding careers were prepared to be interviewed about their love lives in newspapers and magazines – and even admit the last time they had sex.

It is a form of advertising their single status. "The fact is that they are, to a woman, single and most of them haven't had a decent relationship in years," she says.

You've only got to see the number of power-dressed young women with their mobile phones in the streets of Australia's main cities, or sit next to them dining out and behaving badly after work on a Friday night to realise that this is probably true. Behaving badly?

A sign of how the sex roles have dramatically reversed in Australia are the "ladies only" functions at which professional male strippers perform.

These are common all over the country and often become rowdy. Geoffrey Martin, a 19-year-old "bottomless waiter", was serving drinks at a Brisbane Telecom "ladies only" party wearing underpants under a long shirt when some of the women ripped his briefs off.

"When the ladies get a couple of drinks into them, they start getting stroppy," Martin said. "The other two waiters had their undies on, but the ladies ripped mine off me.

"Normally you can get them back after a while, but they have very funny ways of hiding them. They could be in a handbag or down someone's cleavage. Nothing really bad happens, it's just a lot of fun. If the sheilas can do it, why not blokes?"

Many Aussie men blame what has happened on anti-discrimination legislation. The Australian approach to empowering women was to concentrate on what went on in the workplace, and one workplace in Port Kembla, an iron and steel town near Sydney, proved crucial.

The principal employer there was BHP, one of Australia's largest companies. BHP paid high wages for the heavy, dirty work in the steel mills.

The lure of this money brought large numbers of migrants, mostly from the former Yugoslavia, to Port Kembla. The men worked on the mill floor, while Yugoslav women worked in offices, the canteen and cleaning.

In 1980, to everyone's amazement, some of these women applied for jobs as steel workers. BHP rejected them, but the women fought their case to the highest court in the land, won and were awarded $1 million in compensation for lost earnings.

The case became a landmark in the struggle by all women for equal opportunity and their ranks in the workforce steadily grew. By the end of the 1990s, they had broken through to the top in increasing numbers.

Women sat on the boards of major corporations – and managed motherhood at the same time.

A male director of a leading Australian bank revealed, as an example of its liberal attitude, how a woman director had breastfed her infant throughout a board meeting and accidentally squirted milk on his tie.

The 1990s saw the first female president of the Law Institute, women pilots in the RAAF, two women state premiers, and the first governor of a state.

And the effects of these changes? It is now 2006 and a Friday night at a singles bar in north Sydney.

The place is full of well-paid young men and women in their late twenties and early thirties – what one writer has described as the "expensive, high-maintenance crowd".

Listen to the men's chatter and you hear things that would make the traditional Australian male cringe with shame.

"It's all too hard," sighs David Smith, a 27-year-old who has not had a relationship for three years.

As far as he is concerned, the effort involved in finding out if he is compatible with a woman – who, despite their dateless existence, have high expectations – is just not worth it.

His friend James Cunningham, 28, scans the groups of women, but says he is not interested. "It's just too difficult to go up and approach a girl.

There are too many risks. You might offend or you might feel embarrassed." Anyway, he is in a new relationship, with a colleague. Yes, the woman had made the first move. "She got a friend of hers to send me an e-mail."

"All changed," says an older man who is just sightseeing. "Everything is being shaken up. No one knows where they're at.

The old Aussie ideal of a life-long marriage between a tough man and a loving, submissive woman has gone – and no one's yet worked out what to replace it with."

Any suggestions, Ms Greer?

So Australia should be mourning the passing of its hard-drinking, tough, sexist men.

No contest.

[zaza]

wow..7 pages!

so far so good..

What's up Suszzy?

Are my requirements too high for you?

Or are intelligence plus good appearance a rare commodity?

[TheDon]

Im surprised the Thai girls havent gotten a real bashing yet. Now this is rare

[madjbs]

Lazy in the relationship department.Lets's see what is the 'average' Aussie bloke?

Well to be honest its clear from this post and others that you're just as bad as the people you are trying to criticise

Edited November 1, 2007 by madjbs

[madjbs]

.

Edited November 1, 2007 by madjbs

[TheDon]

Hey us aussies are probaly abit lazy, but we can outdrink all of you

[sbk]

Hey us aussies are probaly abit lazy, but we can outdrink all of you

Definitely something to be said for that as well

[Fun2Fun]

What seems to emerge is that the social and economic development and its changed expectations and views on mens and womens role in society has created insecurity about interaction, other peoples expectations and a problem of communication between the sexes.

Edited November 1, 2007 by Fun2Fun

[eek]

May i also make an observation regarding the Thai women developing a more "western woman attitude" (with its apparent negative connotation ). The majority of interactions between Thai females and Westerners are with Male Westerners, correct? Thus could it not be that the "negative" side of a "western attitude" is learnt from observing how western men behave, and not in fact a learnt behavior from western women.

An example of a stinking attitude I noticed today I was when trying to cross the road during its busy time. Most Thai males on their bikes eased back, nodded and smiled to let me get across. It can be overwhelming trying to get across sometimes so im grateful for that. Trying to get across another road I look both ways and begin to cross, but didnt notice the motorbike turning into the road. I was crossing the road, but still not close to him so stopped half way and did a half-nervous smile as not sure if i should carry on walking or not. It was a western man driving(around 30 yrs) with his Thai gf on the back. The utter stinker of a look he gave me was uncalled for. If a look could say "fk u" then that was it.

So tell me...who are directly influencing the Thai ladies in a allegedly negative way? Who is creating this "western women attitude". Somehow i doubt it comes from western women.

[jetjock]

So tell me...who are directly influencing the Thai ladies in a allegedly negative way? Who is creating this "western women attitude". Somehow i doubt it comes from western women.

''

Surely you must be joking or else you are a delusional western women. I seriously doubt that Thai women are influenced any where as much in a bad way by western men as western women other than the belief that all western men have 'deep pockets' ! I think the main influence that western women have on Thai women does not come directly from them but comes from western movies and magazines. Of course if brought back to live in a western society, western women will naturally directly influence a Thai women as that is what integrating into a society is all about. I am not saying that all the influences are bad as most of them are very good. IMHO the bad influences mainly come from some western women that are insecure and live and politically thrive on an agenda of male bashing and trying to create a unisex culture. I guess I am still old school as I do not believe in either male or female bashing and definitely understand their are major differences both physically and psychologically between the sexes.

[Suszzy]

What's up Suszzy?

Are my requirements too high for you?

Or are intelligence plus good appearance a rare commodity?

oh..dear

obviously you're very full of yourself, i must say!

never mind!

[eek]

I suppose calling someone a "delusional western woman" isnt female bashing, of course...

Anyway, im yet to see these crazed insecure male-bashing Thai-female influencing Western women. Guess maybe im just naive...or delusional. I had also not included the cliched "blame the media", preferring to leave that one to someone else as I have my doubts at how big a role the media plays here. However, I have no idea how much negative ball-bashing type negative western female influences thai ladies are being subjected to via the media, so maybe someone who is more aware can enlighten me.

Edited November 1, 2007 by eek

[sbk]

Sad to see, isn't it, eek? Someone can't just disagree with another person's opinion but has to resort to name calling instead. And that is usually the problem with these kinds of threads. Some people just can't get past their own prejudices and respond in a civil manner.

[jetjock]

I suppose calling someone a "delusional western woman" isnt female bashing, of course...

Anyway, im yet to see these crazed insecure male-bashing Thai-female influencing Western women. Guess maybe im just naive...or delusional. I had also not included the cliched "blame the media", preferring to leave that one to someone else as I have my doubts at how big a role the media plays here. However, I have no idea how much negative ball-bashing type negative western female influences thai ladies are being subjected to via the media, so maybe someone who is more aware can enlighten me.

No, I do not think that is female bashing! I can assure you that saying a particular individual might be a 'delusional western woman' has absolutely nothing at all to do with women in general any more than calling someone a delusional western man means that all western men are delusional. ( unless someone is so insecure that they are a bit paranoid )

As for the media, I find it hard to believe in this modern day that anyone would have a difficult time figuring out how large a role the media plays in influencing someone's attitudes, politics, etc. Whether it be the newspapers, television, movies, or the internet, the media is now more profound than ever influencing people throughout the world in their thoughts and actions.

[Dupont]

Sad to see, isn't it, eek? Someone can't just disagree with another person's opinion but has to resort to name calling instead. And that is usually the problem with these kinds of threads. Some people just can't get past their own prejudices and respond in a civil manner.

SBK, you are right

We should be more civil on these threads, better still, most of us should keep out of em.! I try to but sometimes the chang gets the better of me.

Got to say from personal experience, most "western" women who have made the move out here do fit in well, are adventurous (having moved here is surely proof of this) and able to let their hair down and have fun.

Some adjustment is sometimes required first, but that is true of us as well.

I try and keep out of these threads, but sometimes post quite extreme remarks. I do it to show that extreme comments can be made from both sides. I think part of the trouble is sitting around the office in low season waiting for the money to start rolling in.

[meadish_sweetball]

What seems to emerge is that the social and economic development and its changed expectations and views on mens and womens role in society has created insecurity about interaction, other peoples expectations and a problem of communication between the sexes.

Furthermore, the gradual decline of those very clearly defined and generally speaking, less fluid, socio-economic structures in which individuals of both sexes increasingly find themselves grasping for a firm foothold, creates a gargantuan collapse of altruistic and ethical processes relating to intersexual relations, which, since pre-industrial and even pre-rennaisance times have been vital building blocks arranged in a grid as to support the foundation of Western civil society in regards to self-image, perceived purpose and underlying mental strata of the human construct, as it were.

[britmaveric]

[meadish_sweetball]

[Andiamo]

I try to be honest with myself and understand my attraction to Thai women. I think early on a lot of it was built on delusions, I then came to see what I felt was true and pursued it honestly. Early on I felt Thai women were more feminine in appearance and manner. This means less ball busting, more playful, affectionate and quirky. While I do think Thai culture at all levels creates a different type of woman than the west, the difference becomes less stark as you move up the economic ladder. As I got to know more Thais I learned a lot of the attention and what I felt were positive traits I was getting from Thai girls was based on economic disparity and myths they placed on my ability to take care. They were attracted to my wallet at the core but this does extend beyond me handing over baht. While no money no honey is at the core, I do feel they genuinely like me more than western woman, even poor western women who wouldn't be with me if I was handing out hundred dollar bills! My problem with western women is they have a problem with me. I am a social failure in the west. I cannot get a date or the attention of females no matter what I do. I am actually not that bad looking but am on the short side. I am definitely no alpha male in manner or appearance. It seems being farther down the pecking order of masculinity has not hurt me as much in Thailand. I have way more success getting dates and flirting with girls.

I don't have hang ups about my appearance and don't buy into the argument if I got over myself I could get girls here. The problem is they don't want me. No matter how confident I act my chances will only improve marginally, it's not worth the effort or the emotional drain and crippling effects of rejection after rejection to find the one girl who will give me the time of day and go for a walk in the park. I want sex and love like anyone and I can't get it here. Perhaps I am only getting sex and not love in Thailand as that baht is always lingering in the background but if it's a fantasy it sure feels a hel_l of a lot better than weekend after weekend alone in my apartment watching youtube instead of going out. So I don't like western women because they don't like me no matter what I may bring to the table or do to try to compensate for what I don't. Thai women are willing to give me the time of day. I find them physically appealing and it all seems to work out. It's true it's mostly the Isaan girls and not Bangkok Bed Super club girls but that doesn't bother me in the least. I don't want to be thrust in an arena with other guys competing to be rejected or deal with a what have you done for me lately women. The Isaan girls are humble and sexy to me. If it wasn't for them I wouldn't bother with Thailand.

This is the best post I've read in a long time and is probably true for 99% of the Western men in Thailand.

I really admire wasabi for being able to understand himself and the world around him enough to admit the truth!

Seconded. Thanks for sharing Wasabi - an honest and meaningful post said straight from the heart.

This is a really interesting thread - albeit with some "bashing" involved. As both Polly, SBK & others have mentioned, I also do not understand why people feel the need to make derogatory comments about either male or females. Each individual has an individual preference and taste - let's leave it at that!

Why can we not just accept "Different strokes for different folks!" (without bashing each other)?????

I''ll love you all and leave you now as I'm just about to take off to my "Perfect Planet" where everybody smiles, is polite, holds doors open, loves each other etc... (regardless of if they are Thai women, Western women, Penguins, Giraffes, Snooker balls etc, etc )

[eek]

So tell me...who are directly influencing the Thai ladies in a allegedly negative way? Who is creating this "western women attitude". Somehow i doubt it comes from western women.

Upon reflection, this last imput from me in my post probably "bates" too much. Something i have a dislike for (bating). I Hope this thread will stay interesting and respectful, and that my last comment doesnt encourage flaming. Please view my last couple of posts as intended: Trying to understand what a "western woman attitude" is, why its considered negative (and to who. ie: Is this a positive change to Thai women for example?), and where people think this influence is actually coming from.

Of course, this may not be an interesting topic for others to discuss (or maybe already discussed in the past). Anyway..i'll leave it for others to decide. But if it is discussed, can we do so without 'bashing' pls.

Edited November 1, 2007 by eek

[canadiangirl]

So tell me...who are directly influencing the Thai ladies in a allegedly negative way? Who is creating this "western women attitude". Somehow i doubt it comes from western women.

Hey Eek,

some excellent posts by both you and sbk on this thread.

Frankly, I think men who complain about "Western women attitude" mean a whole bunch of behaviors and attitude that they consider "good for the goose but not for the gander" -- they feel that speaking their mind, not taking any shit, feeling entitled to power and respect, having an ego and self-esteem -- are great for them, but oh-so-inconvenient in women.

Whereas they like the traits "traditionally" associated with women: being modest, self-effacing, nurturing, self-sacrificing, caring about other people's feelings, etc --- they wouldn't dream of adopting these attitudes for themselves, as that would cramp their style too much.

As for farang women transmitting "bad attitudes" to Thai women -- give me a fre***king break! First we're responsible for the demise of the Western world (apparently) with this CRAZY idea of equal rights for men and women -- ruining the lives and relationships of every Western man by becoming fat and uppity once we got some rights on our side -- and NOW, apparently, our insidious influence extends even to foreign shores -- where we are somehow spoiling -- no one knows how, since they are not that many of us here, but it's our fault anyways -- the poor farang man's Eden of true femininity: the Thai woman.

When are some of these guys going to take ANY responsibility for their own relationships?

[Momo8]

It's sad to see the demise of the 'Aussie' guy and the 'Western Man' to a grovelling bag of gelatine at the toes of a Thai woman.Western girls just don't have a chance (sniff) run Forrest run! To some greener pastures where western women are regarded as equal in all respects of life.

Edited November 1, 2007 by Momo8

[mattias33]

"Rude and degrading comments towards women is not aloud on this forum"

Who makes a rule like that anyway?? Rude and degrading talk towards anything else is aloud but not towards women? There is the western girl for you right there. What kind of odds do i get on the fact that the rulemaker is a feminist?

Now, im not gonna make a post about that, everybody knows the facts. Im turning the coin and say this:

I meet some western women that are expats here and i say they have a complete different attitude than they do living in the western world. And pointing it out to them they even agree on this fact. Somebody said that thaigirls gets affected by westerngirls. Id say we all get affected by eachother. The world is getting smaller with internet, tv and airplanes, and everybody knows about eachother and different ways of living.

Is it not possible that all we western people living in los get a little bit "better persons" over all? I find myself being more helpful living here. I know that its considered very rude to loose your tempor in public so i dont do it anymore unless i feel its realy needed.

I personaly get along pretty ok with western girls in Thailand. I wouldnt tutch them, for obvious reasons, the competition is what it is (did i see hair and fat mensioned before, or was that about men, since thats aloud?) but still i get along with them and think they have far less feminist attitude than at the homebase. And probably that goes for us men aswell with our negative sides whatever they are. The less stressful environment, the more relaxed lifestyle, and the helpful attitude that i feel is bigger in asia than the westernworld, i think it affects us all in a possitiv direction.

I dont know. Just my thoughts.

[eek]

I take on aspects of where-ever i am, but does not change me dramatically. There is nothing dramatic i feel i need to change. I have always been myself in whatever country i have lived in or visited, but armed with at least some cultural knowledge of the place i am going to.

Mattias, to be honest, im not quite sure why the need for a rant about rules. I guess i should look over them again because i forget what they contain, but I am pretty sure that the mods take a grim view on all rude and degrading talk regardless of race or gender.

I also dont understand the "obvious reasons" why you wouldnt touch a western girl in Thailand. Regardless, they may just be as highly uninterested in you as dating material as they are to you. No idea where "homebase" is. America? Anyway..if so, America (or any other one country) is only a small percentage of the worlds western women. Comparing a few Thailand based western female friends/acquaintances personalities to an entire country (or the entire western world) just seems a tad extreme.