A Friends Response To The Immigration Request In Pattaya

[VBF]

Do they want just ONE card or do they want you to declare and copy ALL cards?

Jingthing, Why would it matter - how would they EVER find out if you don't tell them?

A person might have 6 cards on 6 different banks/CC companies. Even if one used them at ATMs or "over the counter" cash advances, I cannot beleive Immigration could ever trace them! May I (respectfully) point you at my post #53 above for what I beleive may be a solution, even if it's not a literal answer to your question.

VBF

[kenk3z]

Well, if I were in charge of a government office in the business of providing services that many people need, and I had no oversight from above, and corruption was rarely punished, and I could make up my own rules at will, I'd take your credit card information too.

More Tea Money, electronically.

kenk3z

[naka]

After the last few explanations it seems as they (In Pattaya at least) request the ATM/credit card copy when one has the monthly pension letter but no obvious way to get to that pension abroad. Silly at best. I do not believe they want it with Baht 800k in a Thai account method.

Your milage will naturally vary depending on the day, the officer, the lunch they had that day and so forth.

Cheers!

Perhaps yet another example of Immigration showing their disdain for the 'married to a Thai' option.

The have been making this option more difficult for a few years now.

Photo's of house/family, changes to funds requirements, rubber stamps from BKK, come back next month. etc.

Naka.

[Rumpole]

Maybe it is time for the expat community to stop "bending over" and taking the abuse that Thailand is dishing out.

Very well said, but methinks it is a forlorn hope. And the Thais don't really give a dam_n anyway.

[sumrit]

After the last few explanations it seems as they (In Pattaya at least) request the ATM/credit card copy when one has the monthly pension letter but no obvious way to get to that pension abroad. Silly at best. I do not believe they want it with Baht 800k in a Thai account method.

Your milage will naturally vary depending on the day, the officer, the lunch they had that day and so forth.

Cheers!

If this was the reason surely a copy of your bank statement showing any regular withdrawals made would be sufficient, or just showing the ATM receipts you get showing you regularly withdraw money from ATM's in Thailand.

[HarryHacker]

-------------------------------------------

Whats your thoughts?[/size]

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

More to the point, what are your thoughts, as a company representing farangs in these matters?

[englishoak]

You have got to be crazy to go along with this one....... It's not required in BKK right ? ...... so get off your asses and go to Bangers, have a long weekend and while your there drop a letter into your embassy complaining about this obvious scam..... Whilst your at it inform immigration in BKK your doing it too, it may help this problem go away rather quickly when a few hundred letters at your embassies finally make an official or two ask questions to their friends in immigration over lunch as to what it is all about ?........ because they won't have an answer and that will make them lose face.... Not something that sits too well in LOS.

Or ............. do nothing and continue moaning on this forum and watch it get worse.......

[jonniebkk]

Seems it's really unclear what actually occurred to the op and what the exact circumstances were. Reading the ACS and some of the later posts, it seems that the officer may actually have been trying to "help" an income documentarily challenged applicant get his renewal by accepting a copy of his credit card as an alternative proof of income if some of his other documentation was inadequate.

Seems to me that the pattaya immigration office confirmed to American embassy that there is no change to the basic requirement of either income letters or bank balance to qualify for extension.

[thaimate]

asked at immegration the other day ,do you now require credit card details when i renew my retirement visa,answer no.

i then asked if what was written in pattaya mail true ,answer again no.

so over to you pattaya mail.

[SurfRider]

I'm the one who contacted the U.S. Embassy, American Citizen Services (ACS) in the #55 post appearing above.

My concern was that divulging this information lays the person open to possible Identity Theft and Credit Card Fraud, since there is no security in the Immigration Office and various employees, non-employees, family members, couriers, etc. could gain access to this data and use it for nefarious purposes.

From the reports that I've read & heard about this practice from retirees who have been through it so far at Pattaya Immigration, the facts do not mesh with the story that Pattaya Immigration gave to Bangkok-ACS.

Immigration told ACS that they only ask for Credit Card images "for a case in which the applicant cannot provide a bank statement showing monthly income or a bank book that has enough funds"

Clearly, they are requiring this of **ALL** retirees regardless of financial status.

I find the fact that they can't even seem to tell the truth to the U.S. Embassy to be of great interest!

The Plot Thickens...

[poldebol]

A friend sent me and gave me permission to post it on Thaivisa. How many other people have this feeling in Pattaya? My understanding, only Pattaya is enforcing this regulation.

Yet another Thai government outrage!

I read with no small interest the front-page article in an English language newspaper locally distributed that the Thailand Immigration offices will now be requiring those foreigners living permanently in Thailand and renewing their one-year visas to supply complete credit card information for at least one valid credit card. I visited my local office and was told this is true by the information clerk.

As one who has experienced five cases of credit and ATM card fraud, and ALL of them relating to Thailand but never the U.S., Canada, Brazil, Mexico, or St. Croix where I have also used those cards, I assiduously avoid credit card usage here. When I relocated for what I thought was a permanent basis to Thailand I canceled all but one card. Some had credit lines as high as $25,000 USD. I have used the remaining card only once here in three years and that with strict documentation so any fraud could be easily traced. Like most expatriates I find that cash transactions or intra-bank transfers afford the most secure means of avoiding credit card fraud.

For the Thailand Immigration Department to now require full credit card information for a visa in a land where card fraud and government corruption is rampant is a complete outrage! I know of nowhere else where this is a requirement. It is sufficient to require proof of income, and even THERE the Thai government is wantonly discriminatory in it's practice; various nationalities have varying income requirements as if living here would cost varying amounts according to one's race or country of origin. To open the floodgates to a tide of credit card fraud is insane! The card-issuing companies will be canceling in droves when informed, and where will that leave the Thailand supporting individual seeking visa renewal? The credit card suppliers use readily available credit background checks and income verification before issuing a card, and they do so without exposure to the kind of abuse this measure will invite. These means are also available to the Thai authorities and should be employed. A simple example of the extreme nature of the credit card problem here is that this country is so corrupt many exporters will not even accept credit card orders from Thailand!

Over a period of several years I have invested many millions of baht supporting my Thai wife and sons, building a lovely home, and contributing daily to the well being of the local and general Thai economy by my expenditures here in the expectation of a fulfilling retirement. I absolutely refuse to submit to this moronic indignity, injustice, and potential nightmare! The Thai authorities have pushed the envelope TOO far. I would and will sooner sell the house, give the family back what they brought to me (the shirts on their backs), and relocate to a country where the government at least has their collective heads outside their collective colons!

Paul

-------------------------------------------

Whats your thoughts?

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

My thoughts?

I have come to retire in Thailand. I know Thailand since about 30 years. I also know what the majority of Thai people think about farangs. I am here on a one year visa, with 3 months run. I have the 800 K in Thai a bankbook and do not touch it. In Europe I could get 4% on that money. 800K is about 10 years salary in minimum wage in Thailand.

I have met the lady of my life here and we live quietly and happily together since two years. When I buy a car in her name or a house or help her farming father, I can not even use this 800k.

So, from the very first moment of our relationship I have told her: no marriage unless the Thai government accepts me as an equal citizen, with the same rights a Thai person marrying a farang will have in the farang country. Whenever she pronounces the word "marriage", we take a little look at this forum and the matter is settled for a few months.

The Thai government is doing exactly what every neoliberal company will do: catch the customer and squeeze him. I predict that the situation for farangs will get more and more difficult. I do not predict this because I have a crystal ball, but because it is logical. As logical as the continuous rise of the gas price. And most of us knew it when they came here. We are squeezable and we will be squeezed.

To the person who thinks farangs should not bend over anymore. Go and tell your embassy and your politicians at home. But I am afraid they are more interested in the annual growth rate and the entreprise friendly climate of this country than in your predicament.

A EU ambassador has recently promised he will try to locate funds to improve the status for Thai ladies who are on social benefit in the EU. Their average profile seems to be lower than that of ladies of most afriacan countries . Think of this: with my tax money the Thai ladies who went to the Thai school system untill their 18th birthday will get a second chance on education.

Imagine the day the Thai ambassador to the EU asks BKK for funds to help the poor farang in Thailand.

Did you know that many Thai people think that farang take advantage of the Thai social security?

See what I mean? Say no more!

[coalminer]

This whole new procedure shows the URGENT NEED for a prepaid Credit Card (Visa) for members of ThaiVisa that everybody can apply for.

I think a lot of people would be thankful to ThaiVisa and Sunbelt if they can achieve that.

And I see no reason why it could not be achieved after this ridicule rule of Immigration in Pattaya.

[PeaceBlondie]

The answer provided by Pattaya Immigration to the American embassy sounds plausible on its face: that immigration simply want proof that the farang has an ATM card by which he can draw out his money. However, of course, that ATM card would have to match the bank name and the account number shown on the bank records. In my case, the account numbers don't match, but I use it to draw out the pension while in Thailand. I presented my embassy letter again last month, along with copies of my bank statements. The officer kept my embassy letter and handed back my bank statements. He didn't even want to see proof that the money was deposited monthly and was withdrawn by ATM in Thailand several times per month!

[victor15]

This whole new procedure shows the URGENT NEED for a prepaid Credit Card (Visa) for members of ThaiVisa that everybody can apply for.

I think a lot of people would be thankful to ThaiVisa and Sunbelt if they can achieve that.

And I see no reason why it could not be achieved after this ridicule rule of Immigration in Pattaya.

If your bank account is with Kasikorn Bank (if not open new account) when you apply for ATM card also apply for K-banking,

online you can now set your cards limit. When you want to use card just go online and raise limit when item has been bought lower limit again.

Kasikorn will contact your mobile with code so no-one else can change limit, also if no CVV is given by person trying to get your money, then transaction denied

[puyaidon]

If your credit card is from the US, you will only be liable for up to only $50 if you notify the bank of the discrepancy. Sometimes if you catch it fast enough, no liability at all. Debit cards are dangerous as the thief or whoever can use them and drain your bank account and there is almost nothing you can do. You can report it and hope you got it in time but the banks have up to 20 days to replace your money. Not too good if that was the only money you had. The credit card only gives you a debt from which you can recover, the debit card can break you. I made a charge at Bangkok Hospital one week and the next week had a charge coming from a Mumbai, India hotel. Got it cancelled with no problem but a week later, another charge which was cancelled also. The debit card would not have given me much option.

[Kaojai]

Over a period of several years I have invested many millions of baht supporting my Thai wife and sons, ... I would and will sooner sell the house, give the family back what they brought to me (the shirts on their backs), and relocate to a country where the government at least has their collective heads outside their collective colons!

Paul

and in this week's Pattaya Mail, based on another "outrage.":

Yes, I know there are many who will say, “If you don’t like it the way it is, go home!” and, as many have already done, I just may do that and leave my Thai family to fend, financially, for themselves,

http://www.pattayamail.com/current/letters.shtml

Some of you seem to be perpetually on the verge of outrage, indignation and apoplexy. Most of the time it's in reaction to something that turns out to be untrue or some allegation that involves a misunderstanding.

It almost always includes something along the line of:

Most of us spend a minimum of 1 million baht a year in, and on Thailand ...

,

and involves some major violation of the UN Human Rights Charter:

The “surcharge” deemed illegal by the government is being charged at numerous government institutions including the Phuket Aquarium and the new monorail at the Chang Mai Zoo.

and conclude with such dire threats as:

If enough people feel the same, Pattaya, Patong and other seaside tourist havens may well revert back to the sleepy fishing villages they were before the arrival of the “farangs”.

But it seems these same defenders of the moral high road are now demonstrating their righteous indignation by threatening to abandon their wives and children and leave them to fend for themselves, because they aren't REAL family, they're just:

my Thai family

or

my Thai wife and sons

.

Constantly becoming apoplectic based on an exceedingly shaky platform of moral indigation would seem to indicate a fundamental problem, and I don't mean with the Thai government.

Since many of you are here on retirement visas, I would assume you've spent a lifetime dealing with personal and business problems in a rational manner that didn't involve holding your breath or stomping your feet. Why are so many of you so threatened by trivial issues and so prepared to throw a fit if you don't get your way?

If asked for your credit card details, explain politely why you feel uncomfortable about the information being made public. If they insist, then show it to them and inform your credit card company that the information may have been compromised. They can monitor the card or issue one with a new account number.

Inconvenient? Sure.

Justification for throwing a tantrum or abandonning YOUR family? Hardly.

[lopburi3]

You have the option not to hold too much money in your debit card account - you can link a savings account and feed it on-line when needed.

[coalminer]

This whole new procedure shows the URGENT NEED for a prepaid Credit Card (Visa) for members of ThaiVisa that everybody can apply for.

I think a lot of people would be thankful to ThaiVisa and Sunbelt if they can achieve that.

And I see no reason why it could not be achieved after this ridicule rule of Immigration in Pattaya.

If your bank account is with Kasikorn Bank (if not open new account) when you apply for ATM card also apply for K-banking,

online you can now set your cards limit. When you want to use card just go online and raise limit when item has been bought lower limit again.

Kasikorn will contact your mobile with code so no-one else can change limit, also if no CVV is given by person trying to get your money, then transaction denied

Unless I made a reading mistake in this thread, I was under the impression that the requirement to show a Credit Card was a ment to be a Credit Card from OUTSIDE of Thailand.

Inside of Thailand, anybody can do that a lot easier by going to any "OK Cash" branch.

They will issue you any (prepaid) Credit Card type you want (Visa, Master Card, etc...) and you can top it up with any value you want.

This is a valid Credit Card like the ones issued by Citybank and other banks (with the 3 digits control code) and can be used to pay anywhere in Thailand.

Only drawback is that it's only valid in Thailand (no Internet payment).

I gave such a Credit Card to my son-in-law and top it up every month.

No problem.

You can even follow your Credit Card credit/balance on the Internet.

[SurfRider]

If this mickey-mouse requirement continues to stand, I would suggest some preparation before going to Pattaya Immigration to feed the Ogre.

My suggestion would be to copy the card at a service that has a very high quality copy machine ( there's one in a large Real Estate office next to the Hanuman Statue in Jomtien, not far from Immigration )

Black-out the sensitive data on the copy-- at least four digits on the front of the card and the 3-digit Authentication Number on the back.

Then, have them take the two blacked-out copies and make a third copy of those copies.

Any experienced fraud technician can "look" through the blacked-out area on the original copy with a magnifying instrument, or use a specialized light-source or solvents to remove the black-out agent entirely. I've seen it done.

If you use a copy of a copy, this is not possible and you should be as protected as you can be.

Sign the final copy and hand it in with your packet of data at Immigration.

Probably best to have the Card with you for your interview in the event that they want to verify that it matches the copy.

[lopburi3]

If you are worried about visibility just cut the numbers out with a razer knife. Nobody can read empty space.

[Haydn]

There is a very persistent story going round Pattaya that a man applying for an extension to his one year visa at Jomtiem immigration refused to produce a bank card and they refused his extension and he was given 7 days and deportation.

[tom21]

If you show your card and are not comfortable about immigration having the information you can always report the card stolen and get a new one. Or do as previously posted and show a debit card with not much in the account.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

To get around this crazy request all you have to do is open a new bank account in Thailand with 500 baht and get a non visa logo Atm card so its only for use as a atm card and give them a copy of that. I would also say that all tv members post e-mails to there credit card banks informing them of this crazy request from immigration. Also we should all send e-mails to our embassy complaining about this new rule at pattaya immigration. I for one will never give them a copy of my credit card

Good suggestion.

[Manchester]

To get around this crazy request all you have to do is open a new bank account in Thailand with 500 baht and get a non visa logo Atm card so its only for use as a atm card and give them a copy of that. I would also say that all tv members post e-mails to there credit card banks informing them of this crazy request from immigration. Also we should all send e-mails to our embassy complaining about this new rule at pattaya immigration. I for one will never give them a copy of my credit card

Good suggestion.

I thought the requirement was to have your NAME on the card? Most of those ATM cards don,t have your account name on them.

[longball53098]

It would seem there are now two posts going on this same subject; see the following where this has been beat to death http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=150126&hl=

Pattaya Immigration New Visa Rules Changes

From all the reports I read it would seem that Immigration is asking to see either a valid credit card or a bank ATM card with the name embossed on it and they are asking for copies of the card.

I also have read in other posts that it is perfectly acceptable to black out any personal/secure data on the copy.

If necessary,,,,,,make a copy and black out the data, then make a copy of this copy to ensure no data can be read through the blacked out areas. Obviously this will need to be done before you go to Jometein for renewal,,,,,,,,,

As for showing your ATM card or credit card,,,,,,,,I understand they want to see a currently valid card with your name on it.

Apply for a new card from your bank and if it's an ATM card have your bank set the limits on that card to a very low amount,,,,,,,,keep that card somewhere safe and only use it for renewal purposes. If you have a Thai bank ATM card I know for a fact you can get a ATM card with your name on it if you request it. Most Thai banks allow you to set the limits on that card using their on-line srvices or at one of their ATMS.

If you don't have a credit card apply at your home country for a card and again have them set the limits very low,,,,,,,,,,,,again only use this card for renewal purposes and then lock it away for a year,,,although some card issuers require at least one charge per year to keep the card account active.

If you already have a credit card,,,,,,,,,,if you use the card regularly,,,,,,,,,,then request a second card with a low limit and do the same as above.

There are probably several other methods to satisfy Immigration and keep your blood pressure in check,,,,,,,,,,,,be creative.

By next year this time the game will change again and this issue will be in the past and forgotten,,,,,,,,,,,,

longball

[wpcoe]

I also have read in other posts that it is perfectly acceptable to black out any personal/secure data on the copy.

If necessary,,,,,,make a copy and black out the data, then make a copy of this copy to ensure no data can be read through the blacked out areas. Obviously this will need to be done before you go to Jometein for renewal,,,,,,,,,

Actually, there is a copy shop right outside the Jomtien Immigrations office where you could do that. They can also take photos for you, too.

One thought I had about copying your credit card at a commercial shop (versus at home on a scanner) is that many of those photocopy machines have a memory function. A slick operator could produce a second copy of your card after you leave. Yeah, I know, I can be a bit of a conspiracist at times...