Inhumane Treatment Of Dogs

[eek]

who can make the world a better place? (for the animals that is)

Sadly no one can.

Either fool yourself that nothing is happening coz you don't see it or be sad all the time. I am sad all the time.

I prefer to be neither. Try to take positive action, even if in small measures. Be informed, not ignorant, and make conscious choices. The fact is, even small actions can count toward making positive changes. Turning a blind eye, or being unhappy about a situation but doing nothing, is nonconstructive.

Actions like? Don't misunderstand, I am not arguing.

I do my part too. I have taken care of my 2 little cats for 10 yrs and given them a very comfortable life. I will report any animal abuse but unfortunately the society doesn't care much about it.

But I still feel sad due to the awareness of cruelty that exists. Imagine just as we are typing here, how many tortures are going on around every corner on earth. Life is bound to be cruel. It is a fact that cannot be changed. It is only how you see things that can be changed.

oh and just to be clear, I wasnt criticising.

I mean actions as much or as little as you can do. I dont mean ranting and raving and tying to cause some dramatic stance. Such as being pro-active in daily life. Ie, where possible, buying humanly killed meat (hard in many countries, i realise. But in most western countries the option is available). Or free-range eggs. or, trying to source meat /animal products that you know come from somewhere that believes in treating animals humanly. Even buying direct from a farm if possible, that you know treats the animals well, and kills swiftly. If you want to help more than this, then you could get involved in animal rights issues (and im not talking about extremist actions here). Im talking about things such as donating, campaigning, and/or getting physically involved. There are many sites online you can visit for information.

Its difficult giving advice on this topic, as people are so quick to crucify when you have an opinion on animal rights. I generally keep my ideals personal unless someone asks me, but even then it often results in my being taunted and the person becoming defensive. and im veggie (and have been for 18 years), so im occasionally automatically labeled as self-righteous without ever even opening my mouth on the topic (and nor do i actually like entering into debates about it, esp as most ppl dont really want to listen anyway).

I realise that despite trying to do these things, there are still animals that suffer. But that is life and one cannot feel sad about these things. Sadly people suffer at the hands of others too. All we can do is try help within our limits and doing something is better than doing nothing.

[tropo]

I just (20 minutes ago) saw a pickup with the rear portion caged. Three beautiful ma baan dogs were in the cage. They will be starved and then killed for their meat. The starvation lasts for everal days. Death, I believe, is by hammer. The fresh-dog-meat market is located in a neighbouring province. The price per kilogram for the finished product is around 120 baht per kilogram.

Not eating for several days is not starvation, just a diet.

You worry too much, are you a vegetarian?

[elfe]

spot on eek

if everyone would help just in front of his own doorstep, the misery would be not such an endless sea.

just make it happen that the dogs/cats in your neighbourhood are neutered. just don't look away if you see an animal in distress and take it in or help otherwise. it does not take much, it isn't expensive but it helps a poor soul and maybe it makes you feel good as well.

for eating dogs, cats, monkeys and animals like that, it is not out of starving but of pleasure.

[meemiathai]

who can make the world a better place? (for the animals that is)

Sadly no one can.

Either fool yourself that nothing is happening coz you don't see it or be sad all the time. I am sad all the time.

I prefer to be neither. Try to take positive action, even if in small measures. Be informed, not ignorant, and make conscious choices. The fact is, even small actions can count toward making positive changes. Turning a blind eye, or being unhappy about a situation but doing nothing, is nonconstructive.

Actions like? Don't misunderstand, I am not arguing.

I do my part too. I have taken care of my 2 little cats for 10 yrs and given them a very comfortable life. I will report any animal abuse but unfortunately the society doesn't care much about it.

But I still feel sad due to the awareness of cruelty that exists. Imagine just as we are typing here, how many tortures are going on around every corner on earth. Life is bound to be cruel. It is a fact that cannot be changed. It is only how you see things that can be changed.

oh and just to be clear, I wasnt criticising.

I mean actions as much or as little as you can do. I dont mean ranting and raving and tying to cause some dramatic stance. Such as being pro-active in daily life. Ie, where possible, buying humanly killed meat (hard in many countries, i realise. But in most western countries the option is available). Or free-range eggs. or, trying to source meat /animal products that you know come from somewhere that believes in treating animals humanly. Even buying direct from a farm if possible, that you know treats the animals well, and kills swiftly. If you want to help more than this, then you could get involved in animal rights issues (and im not talking about extremist actions here). Im talking about things such as donating, campaigning, and/or getting physically involved. There are many sites online you can visit for information.

Its difficult giving advice on this topic, as people are so quick to crucify when you have an opinion on animal rights. I generally keep my ideals personal unless someone asks me, but even then it often results in my being taunted and the person becoming defensive. and im veggie (and have been for 18 years), so im occasionally automatically labeled as self-righteous without ever even opening my mouth on the topic (and nor do i actually like entering into debates about it, esp as most ppl dont really want to listen anyway).

I realise that despite trying to do these things, there are still animals that suffer. But that is life and one cannot feel sad about these things. Sadly people suffer at the hands of others too. All we can do is try help within our limits and doing something is better than doing nothing.

I knew you weren't criticizing just that I feared you thought I was being defensive.

I understand EXACTLY where you are coming from. I understood every word you said. And please don't give a shit about what those people say. There are many stupid people in this world!

But saying "that is life and one cannot feel sad" is like saying "you cannot die even if you get shot in your head". It is there. It is reality. I am not trying to make others feel sad but I do. I can't help it.

To be honest, I don't feel as sad when it comes across human sufferings.

[xyborg]

I never understand vegetarians, theyr'e nuts, they will not kill any animal for food fair enough but if they drive down the road in their car they will more than likely kill a million insects on their windscreens, tread on ants as they walk, or if gardening spear a worm when digging. I never see any difference from ripping a potato out of the ground or killing a cow. One has nervous system and squeaks a bit.

I do not approve of animal cruelty however. If your'e going to eat it take care of it well and kill it quickly.

[meemiathai]

I never understand vegetarians, theyr'e nuts, they will not kill any animal for food fair enough but if they drive down the road in their car they will more than likely kill a million insects on their windscreens, tread on ants as they walk, or if gardening spear a worm when digging. I never see any difference from ripping a potato out of the ground or killing a cow. One has nervous system and squeaks a bit.

I do not approve of animal cruelty however. If your'e going to eat it take care of it well and kill it quickly.

It is just a matter of personal choice. There is no need for you to understand. Eat whatever you like.

[pete_r]

A TV documentary a few months back investigated the dog export business from the dog-for-a-bucket in Isaan to the meat markets in Vietnam. I seem to remember the journalist quoting 2000 to 3000 dogs being transported every month, with a peak after the rice harvest season when people have more time on their hands.

The conditions of transportation shown were bad, with lorries loaded with dogs in cages parked under the sun, and cages being unloaded by dropping from the top of the lorry to the ground, a fall of 2-3 meters.

As for other animals, a first step to reduce the cruelty may be to introduce regulations and controls, since people who like dog meat are not going to suddenly stop eating it.

[sweetchariot]

Can you send some of these trucks down to Pattaya. Far too many strays down here that they could eat for free!

Edited November 11, 2007 by sweetchariot

[eek]

I never understand vegetarians, theyr'e nuts, they will not kill any animal for food fair enough but if they drive down the road in their car they will more than likely kill a million insects on their windscreens, tread on ants as they walk, or if gardening spear a worm when digging. I never see any difference from ripping a potato out of the ground or killing a cow. One has nervous system and squeaks a bit.

I do not approve of animal cruelty however. If your'e going to eat it take care of it well and kill it quickly.

I dont understand meat eaters, they're nuts, they quite happily eat any animal for food but not consider how the their (most often highly-seasoned) animal part lived and died before arrive on their plates. Some are unable to comprehend the concept of lower life forms and why vegetarians choose to gain sustenance from foods which suffer less. Some often use ridiculous cliche's as a basis for insults against people who choose to not eat meat when no-one actually asked for their uninformed opinion in any case.

But of course, all that is written above, would be a ridiculous cliched concept of meat eaters, and their opinions of vegitarians. Not something I would ever spout off in reality.

;P

[bina]

i eat my animals; at the least the ones that are meant to be eatern, including some of my beautiful male goat kids... thats farm life. (they are slaughtered hallal by my arab co worker's father and prepared n makluba)... on the other hand, all the animal activists are enraged cause a bunch of thai workers slaughtered a cow, on their own, thai style (blow to head, bled out, butchered up, wrapped up in plastic bags, all in two hours)... this was 'witnessed' by accident some moshavnik girl who saw them during the act and photoed in in her cell phone. it made the papers, the SPCA and other orgs were called in and the police.... cause here it is illegal to slaughter your own meat... but the thai were just doing what they have been doing at home: preparing meat for a party. so now we have a bunch of thai workers going to court on cruelty to animal charges.

the animal rights people forgot that their steak and hamburger meat (the ones that eat meat) comes from the same cows, butchered after being carted off in not wonderful conditions and served up.

dog is the same. meat is meat. why should shipping dogs off bother u, but the trucks with the buffalos not?? the buffalo are all wedged in a pickup, and the same process starts up....

anyway this debate has been done a million times. i wouldnt want someone to eat my pet, and conditions should be improved for the transport and waiting time till slaughter, but dog horse (in italy) rabbit pig chicken goose goat sheep cow fish quail, pigeon are all on the menu for one culture or an other.

better to teach kids that milk grows in cartons and has nothing to do with baby cows and shnitzel (deboned chicken breast meat) is not really a chicken and fillet was never fish.

btw, my husband will not eat buffalo elephant or dog on principal (or goat or sheep cause they smell for that matter of eating dog...)

bina

[CarlBkk]

Starting with a side note Bina, I don't know many good farmers who would allow their animals to be slaughtered Halal-style if they're not a believer themselves. Pretty harsh.

It's all about the way the animal dies and minimising the suffering. A dog is meant to be man's best friend - a term of endearment used because dogs are loyal, friendly, protective and pretty dam_n clever. I think that dogs have very different mentalities to farm animals bred for their meat, but I'm no animal psychologist. I would turn vegetarian rather than have to kill either with my bare hands or watch it being killed...so does that make me a soft-hearted hypocrite as a supermarket meat-eater? Maybe.

I'm glad that international pressure and more animal groups are coming into Asia. They need to. As human rights are paramount in measuring a country's civility/modernity, animal rights are not far behind. If pigs and cows can be slaughtered in better conditions, electrocuted before the bolt, then I'm for it, I don't care if I have to pay a few more baht for the privelege and I don't care if the poor have to go through more hassle. Some things have to change for the better. Good on that girl for filming a cow being slowly/painfully killed and the owners learning that they can't do it again. I wish something similar had resulted from the Trat province farmers who acted like barbarians by throwing hundreds of piglets into open fires to protest against the rising price of pork. Nice people. They deserve to eat rice for months in jail.

On my first and only visit to the North East I drove at 10pm on the Mukdahan to Trat Phanom highway behind 2 caged vans loaded with dogs speeding. As the OP said, as these vans passed, dogs (stray and collared) would bark like mad and chase the vans. Apparently they do go to Sakorn Nakorn and neighbouring towns where some people DO still eat their meat "because of culture". Even the major eats it and used his position to stall the ban in his jurisdiction. The meat is then boated over to Laos where any meat will do. At the time I was so surprised I didn't call the police, and still kick myself for not doing so. My wife's father (a policeman in the area) said that transporting the dogs IS illegal and the police would have acted.

I'm going be controversial now. I'm going to say there's a link between how folk treat animals and how they will treat fellow humans. Those who have no feeling towards injured living creatures, no desire to help and no care how they are killed/mistreated are likely to be similarly incompassionate to the plight of humans. There, feel better after getting that out.

Some government action that foreigners support: get the animal transportation better, get the slaughterhouses better and tighten up on hanging dogs. If they're a nuisance neuter them. Plenty of other cattle bred for food to eat. How much does a khao pad moo cost in Sakorn Nakorn anyway? Unaffordable to most?

[pumpuiman]

Just a thought......perhaps following the truck around your village and offering 30 baht NOT to sell the dogs.

Might be a cheap solution.

[sriracha john]

Does this mean we can expect to see the OP soon in similar attire with a similar campaign???

Canadian activist Ashley Fruno, 20, crouches and confines herself in a cage in front of a KFC outlet in downtown Bangkok September 4, 2006. The PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) member from British Columbia is protesting what she says is the abusive treatment of chickens by the fast-food chain.

REUTERS

Above borrowed from:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=81825&st=

Canadian Protests Against Thailand KFC

[Heng]

"Dogs got personality. Personality goes a long way."

[jayjayjayjay]

I thought they only ate dogs in Korea. Thailand?

Not the case....... there is a strong Vietnamese influence in Sakon Nakon and Nakon Panom, Isan. I recall following a pickup up the 213 highway from Khon Kaen loaded to the hilt, must have been 30 - 40 dogs (don't forget these provinces are closer to Vietnam than they are to Korat!!) The local agent I was dealing with said dog was pretty common in the diet in the top north eastern corner. As a dog lover, I turned vegetarian for 2 days, the first time in my life I did not want meat.

I bought a beautiful border collie into Thailand in August. This took me well over 6 months to arrange as none of the Australian border collie kennels would allow ANY border collies to be shipped anywhere into Asia. Only when they saw I had an Ag Degree from Australia's top rural university did they talk with me!! A couple of years ago they found out 30 plus full pedegree border collies were selling as a premium on dog meat menu's in Korea... DISGUSTING..

[toybits]

Why pick on Thais? What about the French and their forced fed geese to make foie gras? Isn't that equally revolting?

People have different cultures. Problem is that some people just cannot make the adjustment.

the way some village thai's are brought up they know no different ,in there eyes it the same as us eating buffalo or cows .

Yes, but the cruelty (slow starvation in cages) is utterly inexcusable .

Edited November 12, 2007 by toybits

[sriracha john]

When properly prepared, I found dog to be quite delicious. Here's a recipe from the Philippines for large gatherings that I kept.

Stewed Dog (wedding style)

Serving Size: 30

Preparation Time: 3:00

Categories: Ethnic/Philippines

3 kg dog meat

1/2 cup vinegar

60 peppercorns -- crushed

6 tablespoons salt

12 cloves garlic -- crushed

1/2 cup cooking oil

6 cups onion -- sliced

3 cups tomato sauce

10 cups boiling water

6 cups red pepper -- cut into strips

6 pieces bay leaf

1 teaspoon tabasco sauce

1 1/2 cups liver spread -- ** see note

1 whole fresh pineapple -- cut 1/2 inch thick

1. First, kill a medium sized dog, then burn off the fur over a hot fire.

2. Carefully remove the skin while still warm and set aside for later (may be

used in other recipes)

3. Cut meat into 1" cubes. Marinade meat in mixture of vinegar,

peppercorn, salt and garlic for 2 hours.

4. Fry meat in oil using a large wok over an open fire, then add onions and

chopped pineapple and saute until tender.

5. Pour in tomato sauce and boiling water, add green pepper, bay leaf and

tobasco.

6. Cover and simmer over warm coals until meat is tender. Blend in liver spread

and cook for additional 5-7 minutes.

*edit* I'd just add that a proper dog is essential. Most Thai dogs, especially the soi variety, are not.

Edited November 12, 2007 by sriracha john

[elfe]

When properly prepared, I found dog to be quite delicious. Here's a recipe from the Philippines for large gatherings that I kept.

Stewed Dog (wedding style)

Serving Size: 30

Preparation Time: 3:00

Categories: Ethnic/Philippines

3 kg dog meat

1/2 cup vinegar

60 peppercorns -- crushed

6 tablespoons salt

12 cloves garlic -- crushed

1/2 cup cooking oil

6 cups onion -- sliced

3 cups tomato sauce

10 cups boiling water

6 cups red pepper -- cut into strips

6 pieces bay leaf

1 teaspoon tabasco sauce

1 1/2 cups liver spread -- ** see note

1 whole fresh pineapple -- cut 1/2 inch thick

1. First, kill a medium sized dog, then burn off the fur over a hot fire.

2. Carefully remove the skin while still warm and set aside for later (may be

used in other recipes)

3. Cut meat into 1" cubes. Marinade meat in mixture of vinegar,

peppercorn, salt and garlic for 2 hours.

4. Fry meat in oil using a large wok over an open fire, then add onions and

chopped pineapple and saute until tender.

5. Pour in tomato sauce and boiling water, add green pepper, bay leaf and

tobasco.

6. Cover and simmer over warm coals until meat is tender. Blend in liver spread

and cook for additional 5-7 minutes.

*edit* I'd just add that a proper dog is essential. Most Thai dogs, especially the soi variety, are not.

so you mean a proper fed st bernhard or golden or the like would be your favorite choice then?

[sriracha john]

The best dog I had there and what the Filipinos seemed to be partial to were German Shepards... probably owing to their musculature.

[elfe]

dogs, especially purebred dogs have never meant to be slaughtered for meat.

people who have no feelings for animals and no understanding about what they can also give back also lack in other kinds of feelings, just my experience.

the love and understanding for animals, environment and animal rights are a matter of civilisation.

somebody once said, the way a country treats its animals shows the way it treats its people too. or something like that.

[peacemakers]

In the streets of Pattaya there are so many dogs running around and sometimes try to bite you without any reason. I will be glad if someone catch that dogs and kill them all. I don't think thay have any owners.

[xyborg]

<br />

I never understand vegetarians, theyr'e nuts, they will not kill any animal for food fair enough but if they drive down the road in their car they will more than likely kill a million insects on their windscreens, tread on ants as they walk, or if gardening spear a worm when digging. I never see any difference from ripping a potato out of the ground or killing a cow. One has nervous system and squeaks a bit.<br />I do not approve of animal cruelty however. If your'e going to eat it take care of it well and kill it quickly.

<br />I dont understand meat eaters, they're nuts, they quite happily eat any animal for food but not consider how the their (most often highly-seasoned) animal part lived and died before arrive on their plates. Some are unable to comprehend the concept of lower life forms and why vegetarians choose to gain sustenance from foods which suffer less. Some often use ridiculous cliche's as a basis for insults against people who choose to not eat meat when no-one actually asked for their uninformed opinion in any case. <br /><br /><b>But of course, all that is written above, would be a ridiculous cliched concept of meat eaters, and their opinions of vegitarians. Not something I would ever spout off in reality. </b><br /><br />;P<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Ther you see you have classed vegetables as a "lower" life form. I class all living things as equal, you seem to want to divide them up. At what point does a vegetarian decide a lower life form from an upper life form. Its nervous system? Is a carrot alive or not? If you eat it are you killing it, if you fertilise it so it becomes huge are you not stuffing it with food fattening it up for slaughter?

How about hydropinically grown could be the equivalent of cage for a carrot.

[WaiWai]

the way some village thai's are brought up they know no different ,in there eyes it the same as us eating buffalo or cows .

....

Yes, but the cruelty (slow starvation in cages) is utterly inexcusable .

.....

Why pick on Thais? What about the French and their forced fed geese to make foie gras? Isn't that equally revolting?

People have different cultures. Problem is that some people just cannot make the adjustment.

I guess the OP didn't mention the force-fed French geese because he's describing something that happened on his doorstep here in Thailand .

Anyway, you agree the treatment of the dogs is revolting. Do you seriously believe we should change our core values when we live amidst people of another culture ? Or that everything can be justified in the name of culture ?

[bina]

two notes: i live in a society that slaughters kosher or hallal; when my husband slaughters a chicken (he wont slaughter other large animals, not all issaan thai slaughter anything that moves) its thai style. i really dont care which way, i still eat it. my son will only eat kosher. so what? my arab worker does the goats, his mother cooks, so what? i like it. its tasty.

as for filming thai slaughtering a cow in israel: that is the way thai slaughter cows; pre slaughtered meat costs twice as much and they dont often have access to shopping for meat. their employer provides the animal. as most of u have never slaughtered any of your meat, let alone raise something for eating, dont judge to quickly. the nice piece of veal came from an animal with large brown eyes who only nursed from his mother for one day max. before he was put in a 'baby house' for bottle feeding until slaughter. i raise my animals, they get the best care. i know that my male goats are mostly going to someone else's plate. as do the sheep. as do some of the rabbits (the russians are big fans of rabbit). i just make sure that i treat my animals properly until they are sold, and i try to ensure proper homes if they are going to be pets. as for being sold for food, i cant control how they are slaughtered or cooked.

as for dogs, perhaps the method is inhumane but the eating of dog, oh, i forgot, also navajo eat dog, well, each culture has its own tastes. most people i know wouldnt touch pig, shellfish, rabbits, guinea pigs (cavias, which are eaten in s. america) or other food animals. not to mention venison, farm raised like in australia(red deer).

bina

[eek]

<br />

I never understand vegetarians, theyr'e nuts, they will not kill any animal for food fair enough but if they drive down the road in their car they will more than likely kill a million insects on their windscreens, tread on ants as they walk, or if gardening spear a worm when digging. I never see any difference from ripping a potato out of the ground or killing a cow. One has nervous system and squeaks a bit.<br />I do not approve of animal cruelty however. If your'e going to eat it take care of it well and kill it quickly.

<br />I dont understand meat eaters, they're nuts, they quite happily eat any animal for food but not consider how the their (most often highly-seasoned) animal part lived and died before arrive on their plates. Some are unable to comprehend the concept of lower life forms and why vegetarians choose to gain sustenance from foods which suffer less. Some often use ridiculous cliche's as a basis for insults against people who choose to not eat meat when no-one actually asked for their uninformed opinion in any case. <br /><br /><b>But of course, all that is written above, would be a ridiculous cliched concept of meat eaters, and their opinions of vegitarians. Not something I would ever spout off in reality. </b><br /><br />;P<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Ther you see you have classed vegetables as a "lower" life form. I class all living things as equal, you seem to want to divide them up. At what point does a vegetarian decide a lower life form from an upper life form. Its nervous system? Is a carrot alive or not? If you eat it are you killing it, if you fertilise it so it becomes huge are you not stuffing it with food fattening it up for slaughter?

How about hydropinically grown could be the equivalent of cage for a carrot.

Ah so if someone killed your daughter, or a beloved pet, rather than 'killing' a prized Onion you were growing..you would feel equal upset? Ridiculous example of course, but only as a retort of equal measure to the example you offered.

[Neeranam]

I suspect that I ate dog once. Either that or it were a very strange chicken.

[wilko]

Remember - a dog is for Xmas....not for life!

PS - which tastes better the Ma Baan or the Husky?

Maybe they should borrow my "Hello Kitty" human killer kit......

[wilko]

I wonder how many people would eat meat if they had to kill each animal they ate.???

Edited November 12, 2007 by wilko

[smartecosse]

bacon sandwiches do have a face as well, hardly anyone whinges about people eating them

[Chloe82]

I did not enjoy my work in China because of the outragous cruelty to animals i wittnessed on a daily basis.

Here a man is boiling cats alive, they said 'the more torture the kittens recieve, the better they taste'