Bangkok Condo Advice - Please!

[honkin]

I have looked at 3 condo projects in Bangkok and would love to hear from some forum members as to their views on the projects.

The 3 projects were the Millenium, Emporio, and the Met. All are Grade A complexes. Emporio is at the resale phase now, whereas the other 2 are at the initial selling phase. All of the 2 bedroom units we looked at are around 120 sq/m and between 10 + 13 million baht. All have terrific finishes and are in great locations. Have any members bought in any of the 3, or had a look at any of them? I'd love your views on any of them.

My only concern was with the number of units, with both Met and Emporio having around 350 units and the Millenium having considerably more. Does this put a strain on the limited facilities like fitness centre, swimming pool, grounds etc? I mean that question with a view to renting the unit and just wondered if it is more preferable to look at complexes with less units? We looked at Hansar Ratchadamri, which only had around 170 units. It was great, but only Leasehold and the other 3 are Freehold. I now know that Freehold is the more preferred way to go.

So far, have only spoken to CB Richard Ellis, who appear to be a very decent and reputable company, with locations all over the world. Does anyopne have an opinion of them and can you recommend other companies who do similar things in Bangkok? If we don't go with any of the units viewed so far, we can then contact other companies with a view to new projects.

On that subject, are there new projects with a completion date of 2009 or later that we might possibly enquire about?

We also looked at newly renovated units in Moon Tower, Casa Visa and Prestige Tower. They were also very nice, but I wondered if renting a renovated unit is more difficult that renting a new unit? If they were in similar locations, had similar fitouts and facilities, with the most modern finishes etc, would they rent for similar money? New units in good areas seem to attract between 800 - 1,000 baht per sq/m. Is that feasible with a newly renovated unit, or will it be considerably less?

Thank you very much in advance for any input you can give me.

Regards

[Irene]

honkin,

Although having no knowledge of the mentioned three projects, but I like to share with you our experiences in bold type:

I have looked at 3 condo projects in Bangkok and would love to hear from some forum members as to their views on the projects.

The 3 projects were the Millenium, Emporio, and the Met. All are Grade A complexes. Emporio is at the resale phase now, whereas the other 2 are at the initial selling phase. All of the 2 bedroom units we looked at are around 120 sq/m and between 10 + 13 million baht. All have terrific finishes and are in great locations. Have any members bought in any of the 3, or had a look at any of them? I'd love your views on any of them. No.

My only concern was with the number of units, with both Met and Emporio having around 350 units and the Millenium having considerably more. Does this put a strain on the limited facilities like fitness centre, swimming pool, grounds etc? I mean that question with a view to renting the unit and just wondered if it is more preferable to look at complexes with less units? We looked at Hansar Ratchadamri, which only had around 170 units. It was great, but only Leasehold and the other 3 are Freehold. I now know that Freehold is the more preferred way to go. Common facilities everywhere are under-utilised, therefore strain is unlikely even with high number of units. Definitely, walk away from leasehold property because there is no resale market.

So far, have only spoken to CB Richard Ellis, who appear to be a very decent and reputable company, with locations all over the world. Does anyopne have an opinion of them and can you recommend other companies who do similar things in Bangkok? If we don't go with any of the units viewed so far, we can then contact other companies with a view to new projects. CBRE is OK and more professional than others in town.

On that subject, are there new projects with a completion date of 2009 or later that we might possibly enquire about? Try Saen Siri Group or Plus Property. An active group involving in condos but rather week on housing. www.plus.co.th or www.thaipropertyplus.com

We also looked at newly renovated units in Moon Tower, Casa Visa and Prestige Tower. They were also very nice, but I wondered if renting a renovated unit is more difficult that renting a new unit? If they were in similar locations, had similar fitouts and facilities, with the most modern finishes etc, would they rent for similar money? New units in good areas seem to attract between 800 - 1,000 baht per sq/m. Is that feasible with a newly renovated unit, or will it be considerably less? Depends on the location of the renovated units. To find out the mentioned condos, try as another thread and find out from those who have the experiences with the three and also to see the parking at night or early morning. Naturally, all new unit has an edge over the renovated units even if they are next door to each other. 800-1,000 for renovated units are somewhat high and unheard of. Reduction of 15-20% is closer to the market if the location is good and well demanded.

Thank you very much in advance for any input you can give me.

Regards

[Lazy Sod]

I've had some dealings with hamptons.co.th and they are quite good. Their website is up to date, good range of properties, and they respond promptly to emails.

[mauiguy90]

...We also looked at newly renovated units in Moon Tower, Casa Visa and Prestige Tower. They were also very nice, but I wondered if renting a renovated unit is more difficult that renting a new unit? If they were in similar locations, had similar fitouts and facilities, with the most modern finishes etc, would they rent for similar money? New units in good areas seem to attract between 800 - 1,000 baht per sq/m. Is that feasible with a newly renovated unit, or will it be considerably less?

Thank you very much in advance for any input you can give me.

Regards

Here's a map of condos/apartments around Bangkok: http://www.kobayashi.co.th/Thaigo/sukhumvit/sukhumvit.htm .

You can click on the icon and it will give you the general price range for that particular development. The map/website isn't perfect, so expect some deviation from the actual prices but you should get a good idea of what you can rent your condo for.

Right now, it is a renter's market. Although renovation of an older place will certainly make it easier to rent and perhaps get you a bit more than the going rate, I doubt that you can bump the rental price up significantly even if you do a beautiful job renovating.

If you have any experience with rentals, you should know that renting out a new unit is not a good idea. Even the best prospective renters can make a new condominium look very old in just a short period of time. It only takes one bad tenant to mess up your dream apartment. If you do rent out your spanking new condo, take a bunch of pictures if for no other reason to remember "the way things were". Good luck!!!

[thaigene2]

Considerations:

-Many doubt you/anyone can get the 8% return anymore (if ever) considered worthwhile for the capital investment.

-Irene is someone who's advice I would take seriously so would look at that closely

-The number of Thai sepculators who dived head-in to the new condo projects with an eye to renting out has skyrocketed according to the developers

-Why on earth would you even consider a 2009 completion date with the over-supply now coming online?

-Drive/ride around the Suk/Pahonyothin/Asoke/Ratchada areas at NIGHT and look at how many dark windows there are in the COMPLETED places, then wonder how many are occupied - these oweners are your PRESENT competitors in the rental biz

-Worse, ask yourself since (as you probably now know) it takes someone with only a little bit of disposbale cash to make a deposit and then make the monthly payments for 20 months...The developers make no attempt to ensure that these "buyers" actually have access to the final 80% lump sum needed for transfer (they don't ask for bank statements nor mortgage approvals from banks) - and Thais with some money, just like Chinese like to gamble that they can flip before completion.

-Maybe buying a completed unit from one of the 'flippers' is safest for you?

[honkin]

I've had some dealings with hamptons.co.th and they are quite good. Their website is up to date, good range of properties, and they respond promptly to emails.

Cheers Lazy Sod and thanks for taking the time to reply.

Am just waiting on a reply from them. They have 4 projects currently available which may suit us - Ficus Lane, Avenue 61, The Royal SalaDaeng and The Lofts Yennakart.

Do you know anything about any of them? They are all in prime location for us and we are interested if they fit within our budget.

Thanks again

[honkin]

Considerations:

-Many doubt you/anyone can get the 8% return anymore (if ever) considered worthwhile for the capital investment. In Melbourne we get 4% and it is considered worthwhile.

-Irene is someone who's advice I would take seriously so would look at that closely Couldn't agree more. She and a couple of others were the few who were not doomsayers in their responses.

-The number of Thai sepculators who dived head-in to the new condo projects with an eye to renting out has skyrocketed according to the developers I'll have to take that on trust as I have not spoken directly to any developers

-Why on earth would you even consider a 2009 completion date with the over-supply now coming online? I am not convinced there is an oversupply of "Grade A" properties. Your view is that there is, but I am as yet unconvinced, as are others at this forum who are owners of multiple properties and have no difficulty renting them. I may be proven wrong, but I believe that quality property in prime locations rent in any market. I have invested in Melbourne based on that belief, and have no reason to distrust that philosophy in Bangkok.

-Drive/ride around the Suk/Pahonyothin/Asoke/Ratchada areas at NIGHT and look at how many dark windows there are in the COMPLETED places, then wonder how many are occupied - these oweners are your PRESENT competitors in the rental biz

-Worse, ask yourself since (as you probably now know) it takes someone with only a little bit of disposbale cash to make a deposit and then make the monthly payments for 20 months...The developers make no attempt to ensure that these "buyers" actually have access to the final 80% lump sum needed for transfer (they don't ask for bank statements nor mortgage approvals from banks) - and Thais with some money, just like Chinese like to gamble that they can flip before completion. Naturally, the price is somewhat higher than getting in early on in the project's life, though

-Maybe buying a completed unit from one of the 'flippers' is safest for you? Have considered that and have some units to inspect when I return.

Appreciate your post, thaigene2. I know we still have much research to do before we enter into anything. We certainly won't be diving in without first testing the water. We have a good friend in Bangkok who's mother-in-law is a real estate agent in Bangkok. Her insight will prove invaluable as well.

Cheers

[jumnien]

You will not get as high appreciation in a leasehhold investment, but if you are buying for renting then a leasehold usually will return a much higher annual income. In other words a 15 million baht condo will rent for a much higher price in a leasehold building than a 15 million baht condo in a freehold building.

[think_too_mut]

Does this put a strain on the limited facilities like fitness centre, swimming pool, grounds etc? I mean that question with a view to renting the unit and just wondered if it is more preferable to look at complexes with less units?

If the machines in the building's fitness centre look underutilized that is for 1 most likely reason - they are all broken and residents know that and don't even bother checking if the machines have been repaired.

When inspecting a building, you don't know that unless you try. Large fitness center at Floraville Bang Na...20 machines, whichever I tried was not working.

In our building, there are 2 fitness centres and they are full when the machines are operational. Out of 6 machines in each, 3-5 are broken most of the time. Especially the tread mill one breaks down the same day they repair it.

Edited November 21, 2007 by think_too_mut

[honkin]

You will not get as high appreciation in a leasehhold investment, but if you are buying for renting then a leasehold usually will return a much higher annual income. In other words a 15 million baht condo will rent for a much higher price in a leasehold building than a 15 million baht condo in a freehold building.

I appreciate your input, sunrise07, but am wondering why this would occur? Isn't a 15 million baht condo a 15 million condo regardless of what the legal status of the unit is itself?

I'm just trying to get my head around why a tenant would even concern themselves with that sort of information or if they would even be entitled to know. Perhaps they would and perhaps they are!

Also wondering why whether a building has a freehold or leasehold title would affect the growth potential. Perhaps it is a Thai phenomenon.

Certainly here in Australia, tenants would almost always be renting through an agent and the question of whether the owner has a leasehold or freehold title would be a non-issue.

Thanks again, though.

[donx]

You will not get as high appreciation in a leasehhold investment, but if you are buying for renting then a leasehold usually will return a much higher annual income. In other words a 15 million baht condo will rent for a much higher price in a leasehold building than a 15 million baht condo in a freehold building.

I appreciate your input, sunrise07, but am wondering why this would occur? Isn't a 15 million baht condo a 15 million condo regardless of what the legal status of the unit is itself?

I'm just trying to get my head around why a tenant would even concern themselves with that sort of information or if they would even be entitled to know. Perhaps they would and perhaps they are!

Also wondering why whether a building has a freehold or leasehold title would affect the growth potential. Perhaps it is a Thai phenomenon.

Certainly here in Australia, tenants would almost always be renting through an agent and the question of whether the owner has a leasehold or freehold title would be a non-issue.

Thanks again, though.

honkin,

What sunrise07 is saying is that a 15 million baht leasehold condo would be worth much more if it was freehold instead. For a renter, it would be comparable to them living in a freehold condo worth, say 20 to 30 million baht. Thus the owner of a leasehold condo can rent it for much more relative to its purchase price. On the other hand, what you gain in rent you lose in resale value.

To the tenants leasehold or freehold is a non-issue. To the owner of the condo, it makes a big difference. If you are only looking for a way for your 15 million baht to make a reasonable income over say 20 years and you never intend to live in the condo, then a leasehold condo is a reasonable choice.

[honkin]

Does this put a strain on the limited facilities like fitness centre, swimming pool, grounds etc? I mean that question with a view to renting the unit and just wondered if it is more preferable to look at complexes with less units?

If the machines in the building's fitness centre look underutilized that is for 1 most likely reason - they are all broken and residents know that and don't even bother checking if the machines have been repaired.

When inspecting a building, you don't know that unless you try. Large fitness center at Floraville Bang Na...20 machines, whichever I tried was not working.

In our building, there are 2 fitness centres and they are full when the machines are operational. Out of 6 machines in each, 3-5 are broken most of the time. Especially the tread mill one breaks down the same day they repair it.

Cheers think-too-mut. The units I spoke of are not yet completed, so the fitness centre is not able to be viewed. It was more a question of whether it would be more attractive for a potential tenant to have 200 units all sharing facilities or 450+ units sharing the same amount of facilities - or whether it makes no difference.

Thanks again.

[honkin]

honkin,

Although having no knowledge of the mentioned three projects, but I like to share with you our experiences in bold type:

I have looked at 3 condo projects in Bangkok and would love to hear from some forum members as to their views on the projects.

The 3 projects were the Millenium, Emporio, and the Met. All are Grade A complexes. Emporio is at the resale phase now, whereas the other 2 are at the initial selling phase. All of the 2 bedroom units we looked at are around 120 sq/m and between 10 + 13 million baht. All have terrific finishes and are in great locations. Have any members bought in any of the 3, or had a look at any of them? I'd love your views on any of them. No.

My only concern was with the number of units, with both Met and Emporio having around 350 units and the Millenium having considerably more. Does this put a strain on the limited facilities like fitness centre, swimming pool, grounds etc? I mean that question with a view to renting the unit and just wondered if it is more preferable to look at complexes with less units? We looked at Hansar Ratchadamri, which only had around 170 units. It was great, but only Leasehold and the other 3 are Freehold. I now know that Freehold is the more preferred way to go. Common facilities everywhere are under-utilised, therefore strain is unlikely even with high number of units. Definitely, walk away from leasehold property because there is no resale market.

So far, have only spoken to CB Richard Ellis, who appear to be a very decent and reputable company, with locations all over the world. Does anyopne have an opinion of them and can you recommend other companies who do similar things in Bangkok? If we don't go with any of the units viewed so far, we can then contact other companies with a view to new projects. CBRE is OK and more professional than others in town.

On that subject, are there new projects with a completion date of 2009 or later that we might possibly enquire about? Try Saen Siri Group or Plus Property. An active group involving in condos but rather week on housing. www.plus.co.th or www.thaipropertyplus.com

We also looked at newly renovated units in Moon Tower, Casa Visa and Prestige Tower. They were also very nice, but I wondered if renting a renovated unit is more difficult that renting a new unit? If they were in similar locations, had similar fitouts and facilities, with the most modern finishes etc, would they rent for similar money? New units in good areas seem to attract between 800 - 1,000 baht per sq/m. Is that feasible with a newly renovated unit, or will it be considerably less? Depends on the location of the renovated units. To find out the mentioned condos, try as another thread and find out from those who have the experiences with the three and also to see the parking at night or early morning. Naturally, all new unit has an edge over the renovated units even if they are next door to each other. 800-1,000 for renovated units are somewhat high and unheard of. Reduction of 15-20% is closer to the market if the location is good and well demanded.

Thank you very much in advance for any input you can give me.

Regards

cheers Irene. Your views are well respected in this forum. Have contacted them all and found some more units to possibly check.

Have you found the Bangkok rental market to be oversupplied at present, or do you struggle to rent any of your units? I know there may possibly be a glut of units, but are most of the unoccupied units true quality units? I couldn't envisage purchasing anything other than a unit in a Grade A complex in a sought after area. The reason for that is that we will want to live there eventually. Sought after only because of the return required, but quality as that is what we want to spend time in, if that makes sense.

Understood with renovated units. So if you can pick up a very nice one in an area of demand for a decent price, the reduced rent will not be such an issue as there will also be reduced repayments. So long as we can that in balance, I see no issue.

What sort of locations are the units you have?

Thanks again for your time. As I said earlier, we have only looked at 4 units so far - all in projects yet to be completed. I will come back to Bangkok either next month or January and take a look at another 5 - 10 and then we can make a decision.

Cheers

[honkin]

You will not get as high appreciation in a leasehhold investment, but if you are buying for renting then a leasehold usually will return a much higher annual income. In other words a 15 million baht condo will rent for a much higher price in a leasehold building than a 15 million baht condo in a freehold building.

I appreciate your input, sunrise07, but am wondering why this would occur? Isn't a 15 million baht condo a 15 million condo regardless of what the legal status of the unit is itself?

I'm just trying to get my head around why a tenant would even concern themselves with that sort of information or if they would even be entitled to know. Perhaps they would and perhaps they are!

Also wondering why whether a building has a freehold or leasehold title would affect the growth potential. Perhaps it is a Thai phenomenon.

Certainly here in Australia, tenants would almost always be renting through an agent and the question of whether the owner has a leasehold or freehold title would be a non-issue.

Thanks again, though.

honkin,

What sunrise07 is saying is that a 15 million baht leasehold condo would be worth much more if it was freehold instead. For a renter, it would be comparable to them living in a freehold condo worth, say 20 to 30 million baht. Thus the owner of a leasehold condo can rent it for much more relative to its purchase price. On the other hand, what you gain in rent you lose in resale value.

To the tenants leasehold or freehold is a non-issue. To the owner of the condo, it makes a big difference. If you are only looking for a way for your 15 million baht to make a reasonable income over say 20 years and you never intend to live in the condo, then a leasehold condo is a reasonable choice.

Sorry donx. I'm a bit thick sometimes. That makes perfect sense. Leasehold is worth somewhat less than freehold as a purchase, so a comparable purchase price of the 2 means a better quality unit with leasehold. I am assuming that as sunrise07 was saying, the appreciation of the unit (growth) in freehold would be considerably higher than a leasehold unit. Any idea of the difference?

What then of selling a leasehold unit after the loan was paid off. It's a 30 year lease, but if the repayment period was around 10 years, what would be the sort of appreciation in the unit compared to a similarly priced freehold unit? Also, is there a good resale market for used condos?

In Melbourne, properties double in value every 10 years. Some more, some less, but it averages out to around 10 years. Is that a similar type of occurance in Bangkok?

I thank you all once again. This forum is an invaluable tool for research. It may well stop us making a big mistake - hopefully. Cheers

[Irene]

My replies are in bold type:

cheers Irene. Your views are well respected in this forum.Thanks. Have contacted them all and found some more units to possibly check.

Have you found the Bangkok rental market to be oversupplied at present, or do you struggle to rent any of your units? I know there may possibly be a glut of units, but are most of the unoccupied units true quality units? I couldn't envisage purchasing anything other than a unit in a Grade A complex in a sought after area. The reason for that is that we will want to live there eventually. Sought after only because of the return required, but quality as that is what we want to spend time in, if that makes sense. Only 10% of the units we owned are currently unoccupied. They are in the prime area but badly managed. So besides Grade A and location, you definitely have to find out on the quality of the management. We don't think Sukhumvit area Soi 21 to 61 are over supplied. This is the area that is sought after.

Understood with renovated units. So if you can pick up a very nice one in an area of demand for a decent price, the reduced rent will not be such an issue as there will also be reduced repayments. So long as we can that in balance, I see no issue. You are right. We have also done that with investment of Baht 45,000 per sqm.

What sort of locations are the units you have? Almost all units are near to skytrain stations starting from Rajdamri to Soi 63 Sukhumvit.

Thanks again for your time. As I said earlier, we have only looked at 4 units so far - all in projects yet to be completed. I will come back to Bangkok either next month or January and take a look at another 5 - 10 and then we can make a decision.Good luck with your search!

Cheers

[quiksilva]

Leasehold is worth somewhat less than freehold as a purchase, so a comparable purchase price of the 2 means a better quality unit with leasehold. I am assuming that as sunrise07 was saying, not necessarily true

the appreciation of the unit (growth) in freehold would be considerably higher than a leasehold unit. Any idea of the difference? thats for sure, because a lease by definition, depreciates over time (unless its an exceptionally desirable property, but even then it will inevitably decrease in value as it approaches the end of its term

What then of selling a leasehold unit after the loan was paid off. It's a 30 year lease, but if the repayment period was around 10 years, what would be the sort of appreciation in the unit compared to a similarly priced freehold unit? Ceteris paribus the lease will experience less 'growth', but in truth its an impossible question to answer without knowing more variables

Also, is there a good resale market for used condos? On the whole, no its not that great. They can be sold though, but it may take a while 9 months +. It all depends on location and the building you are in

In Melbourne, properties double in value every 10 years. Some more, some less, but it averages out to around 10 years. Is that a similar type of occurance in Bangkok?

No, again it all depends on the property and its perception in the market, if you are looking for capital gains stick to buildings which have a good 'brand' in the market and have an established property management team, even with all those ducks lined up, you will not experience the sort of growth you may have seen in Melbourne, best case scenario in a rising market over a similiar time frame, perhaps, but its unlikely going forward

[nobody65]

I have looked at 3 condo projects in Bangkok and would love to hear from some forum members as to their views on the projects.

The 3 projects were the Millenium, Emporio, and the Met. All are Grade A complexes. Emporio is at the resale phase now, whereas the other 2 are at the initial selling phase. All of the 2 bedroom units we looked at are around 120 sq/m and between 10 + 13 million baht. All have terrific finishes and are in great locations. Have any members bought in any of the 3, or had a look at any of them? I'd love your views on any of them.

My only concern was with the number of units, with both Met and Emporio having around 350 units and the Millenium having considerably more. Does this put a strain on the limited facilities like fitness centre, swimming pool, grounds etc? I mean that question with a view to renting the unit and just wondered if it is more preferable to look at complexes with less units? We looked at Hansar Ratchadamri, which only had around 170 units. It was great, but only Leasehold and the other 3 are Freehold. I now know that Freehold is the more preferred way to go.

So far, have only spoken to CB Richard Ellis, who appear to be a very decent and reputable company, with locations all over the world. Does anyopne have an opinion of them and can you recommend other companies who do similar things in Bangkok? If we don't go with any of the units viewed so far, we can then contact other companies with a view to new projects.

On that subject, are there new projects with a completion date of 2009 or later that we might possibly enquire about?

We also looked at newly renovated units in Moon Tower, Casa Visa and Prestige Tower. They were also very nice, but I wondered if renting a renovated unit is more difficult that renting a new unit? If they were in similar locations, had similar fitouts and facilities, with the most modern finishes etc, would they rent for similar money? New units in good areas seem to attract between 800 - 1,000 baht per sq/m. Is that feasible with a newly renovated unit, or will it be considerably less?

Thank you very much in advance for any input you can give me.

Regards

did you investigte "the river" already?

[Lazy Sod]

I've had some dealings with hamptons.co.th and they are quite good. Their website is up to date, good range of properties, and they respond promptly to emails.

Cheers Lazy Sod and thanks for taking the time to reply.

Am just waiting on a reply from them. They have 4 projects currently available which may suit us - Ficus Lane, Avenue 61, The Royal SalaDaeng and The Lofts Yennakart.

Do you know anything about any of them? They are all in prime location for us and we are interested if they fit within our budget.

Thanks again

I know of them, but not enough to give you a meaningful opinion. For me, the Lofts Yennakart would be off the list as it's not walking distance to BTS/MRTA. If your budget is 120K/m2 then I'd be looking at a resale at the recently completed Siri Residence or Siri 24 (both on Sukhumvit 24), don't think you can beat the location or developer (see sansiri.com). They are also walking distance to Emporium shopping centre and BTS.

I've always liked the Legend on Saladaeng as well (last time I looked Hamptons had a couple for resale, but make sure you get a foreign quota unit).

[TonyLeung]

i think the global recession will bring down prices which have gone up HUGE the last 3 years.

[thaigene2]

i think the global recession will bring down prices which have gone up HUGE the last 3 years.

I agree fully. And this whole string is starting to look like an amatuer wind-up anyway..

Edited November 21, 2007 by thaigene2

[honkin]

i think the global recession will bring down prices which have gone up HUGE the last 3 years.

I agree fully. And this whole string is starting to look like an amatuer wind-up anyway..

Hi TonyLeung, I'm just wondering which global recession that would that be? Thailand's economy is booming, so is Australia's. China, India, Brazil and Russia - commonly known as the BRIC, are absolutely flying. Europe does not appear to be struggling either. The only country I can immediately think of who may be facing recession in the short-term is the US - and frankly, they deserve it. The US sub-prime decarcle was poorly managed by the fed and other lenders, and it had been coming for quite a while. It knocked share markets around the world, though mainly financial stocks. If it affects property at all, I beieve that it will affect financial lenders more than it will property prices. They may be more hesitant to loan in certain circumstances. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how analysts over here see it.

Sorry thaigene2, but I'm not really sure I know what you mean regarding the "string looking like an amateur wind-up." If you are referring to the content of this thread, well I am the one who started it. It was to assist me in gathering information regarding a possible purchase of a unit in Bangkok. I understand that there are some complexities that we do not have in Australia and know that there are many members of this forum whose views are very well respected. To date, there has been quite a bit of very useful information. If that seems in any way amateurish to you, there is not really anything I can say to change that.

Perhaps you could possibly tell me how you would go about researching this sort of purchase when living in another country.

Regards

[Irene]

The purpose of a forum is to share one's experience and knowledge. There is no winner or loser but there is a lot of progress in knowing other viewpoints and information. I have participated in this forum for a year now and have learnt a lot from day one when I was the one who asked for information and knowhow from others. To reciprocate kindness of others, I have been a contributor on whatever I know of since that day.

I find this thread beneficial to me even as a contributor since it has forced me to recap my position and understand the viewpoints of others and market condition that I had no knowledge of before. This forum taught me that the world is bigger than I thought. Fortunately, I am able to separate useful and useless information. If I want to find out whether there will be a recession, which is a very specialised subject, I will rely on cnbc and bloomberg.

[cmsally]

The purpose of a forum is to share one's experience and knowledge. There is no winner or loser but there is a lot of progress in knowing other viewpoints and information. I have participated in this forum for a year now and have learnt a lot from day one when I was the one who asked for information and knowhow from others. To reciprocate kindness of others, I have been a contributor on whatever I know of since that day.

I find this thread beneficial to me even as a contributor since it has forced me to recap my position and understand the viewpoints of others and market condition that I had no knowledge of before. This forum taught me that the world is bigger than I thought. Fortunately, I am able to separate useful and useless information. If I want to find out whether there will be a recession, which is a very specialised subject, I will rely on cnbc and bloomberg.

Well said!

Except I don't know that I would ever trust CNBC or Bloomberg

[think_too_mut]

If I want to find out whether there will be a recession, which is a very specialised subject, I will rely on cnbc and bloomberg.

Same kind of knowledge can be gained through emptying a bottle of whiskey and is more enjoyable.

The hangover is about the same.

[samtam]

Hi TonyLeung, I'm just wondering which global recession that would that be? Thailand's economy is booming, so is Australia's. China, India, Brazil and Russia - commonly known as the BRIC, are absolutely flying. Europe does not appear to be struggling either. The only country I can immediately think of who may be facing recession in the short-term is the US - and frankly, they deserve it. The US sub-prime decarcle was poorly managed by the fed and other lenders, and it had been coming for quite a while. It knocked share markets around the world, though mainly financial stocks. If it affects property at all, I beieve that it will affect financial lenders more than it will property prices. They may be more hesitant to loan in certain circumstances. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how analysts over here see it.

I'm not quite sure how you can define Thailand's economy as "booming". It's the worst performing economy in SE Asia this year. The bubble in China is about to burst. If you think the sub prime mortagage debacle will only affect America, then I think you need to change the colour of your specs. There's quite likely to be a recession in the US, and there is a knock on effect in UK, both in the wider economy and in the UK property market. Banks are also suffering in the EU.

As far as the Thai property market is concerned, there is a glut of properties. I would buy, but you don't have to be in a hurry. The first six months after the election there is likely to be a bounce here, but after that I think we'll be back to the revolving door syndrome of Thai governments prior to Thaksin's, if there's not another coup, (if PPP get in), and providing the three pillars of state are not dramatically altered by the inevitable.

Edited November 22, 2007 by samtam

[nobody65]

I have looked at 3 condo projects in Bangkok and would love to hear from some forum members as to their views on the projects.

The 3 projects were the Millenium, Emporio, and the Met. All are Grade A complexes. Emporio is at the resale phase now, whereas the other 2 are at the initial selling phase. All of the 2 bedroom units we looked at are around 120 sq/m and between 10 + 13 million baht. All have terrific finishes and are in great locations. Have any members bought in any of the 3, or had a look at any of them? I'd love your views on any of them.

My only concern was with the number of units, with both Met and Emporio having around 350 units and the Millenium having considerably more. Does this put a strain on the limited facilities like fitness centre, swimming pool, grounds etc? I mean that question with a view to renting the unit and just wondered if it is more preferable to look at complexes with less units? We looked at Hansar Ratchadamri, which only had around 170 units. It was great, but only Leasehold and the other 3 are Freehold. I now know that Freehold is the more preferred way to go.

So far, have only spoken to CB Richard Ellis, who appear to be a very decent and reputable company, with locations all over the world. Does anyopne have an opinion of them and can you recommend other companies who do similar things in Bangkok? If we don't go with any of the units viewed so far, we can then contact other companies with a view to new projects.

On that subject, are there new projects with a completion date of 2009 or later that we might possibly enquire about?

We also looked at newly renovated units in Moon Tower, Casa Visa and Prestige Tower. They were also very nice, but I wondered if renting a renovated unit is more difficult that renting a new unit? If they were in similar locations, had similar fitouts and facilities, with the most modern finishes etc, would they rent for similar money? New units in good areas seem to attract between 800 - 1,000 baht per sq/m. Is that feasible with a newly renovated unit, or will it be considerably less?

Thank you very much in advance for any input you can give me.

Regards

did you investigate "the river" already?

[TonyLeung]

i think the global recession will bring down prices which have gone up HUGE the last 3 years.

I agree fully. And this whole string is starting to look like an amatuer wind-up anyway..

Hi TonyLeung, I'm just wondering which global recession that would that be? Thailand's economy is booming, so is Australia's. China, India, Brazil and Russia - commonly known as the BRIC, are absolutely flying. Europe does not appear to be struggling either. The only country I can immediately think of who may be facing recession in the short-term is the US - and frankly, they deserve it. The US sub-prime decarcle was poorly managed by the fed and other lenders, and it had been coming for quite a while. It knocked share markets around the world, though mainly financial stocks. If it affects property at all, I beieve that it will affect financial lenders more than it will property prices. They may be more hesitant to loan in certain circumstances. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how analysts over here see it.

Sorry thaigene2, but I'm not really sure I know what you mean regarding the "string looking like an amateur wind-up." If you are referring to the content of this thread, well I am the one who started it. It was to assist me in gathering information regarding a possible purchase of a unit in Bangkok. I understand that there are some complexities that we do not have in Australia and know that there are many members of this forum whose views are very well respected. To date, there has been quite a bit of very useful information. If that seems in any way amateurish to you, there is not really anything I can say to change that.

Perhaps you could possibly tell me how you would go about researching this sort of purchase when living in another country.

Regards

so the US is going to go into a recession and China's economy is still going to be booming? the sub prime crisis is hitting the financial stocks but of course it will spread. everything is connected. housing was propping up the american economy for a long time. we will be testing 12500 soon imho.

if you want, take a look at how much Chinese stocks declined in the recent pullback. they fell more than the US stocks.

looking at bangkokbank's website, they also offer sub prime mortgages.

[TonyLeung]

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=3m&s=F...IC&c=%5EDJI

When the US markets were doing good, the Chinese stocks were out performing, when they started to correct take a look at the steep fall in the Chinese stocks.

[thaigene2]

Yes, exactly ..this just keeps coming back to the same thing.

How can people with money to spend (if they really are planning to spend it) not see what's happening in the Economic Engine of the world? And that engine AIN'T CHINA.

1. Americans have been buying beyond their means for at least 10-15 years now - encouraged to do that by low interest rates - and cheap products (from China) flooding their stores. The first people to get wacked of course are those who could least afford to play with credit. Does it stop there? Does anyone REALLY believe that?

"Oh, no Bill - it was only those poor-folk who were buying things they couldn't afford.."

2. So of course, the chain starts to fall apart..up he ladder we go.

3. First time in history - reported 2 or 3 years ago already, that Americans have NEGATIVE SAVINGS - and FIRST TIMEin history that's happened.

Do you really need a Master's Degree in economics to know what that means to the whole world? Does anyone NOT THINK that the US Govt is putting the breaks on its own currency and imports and deliberately shouting down Chinese products as inferior to prevent a complete catastrophe?

"Oh no Bill, it's business as usual..go on buy a condo in Bangkok as an investment to rent out --- TO WHOM??"

Edited November 22, 2007 by thaigene2

[Moonfruit]

Yes, exactly ..this just keeps coming back to the same thing.

How can people with money to spend (if they really are planning to spend it) not see what's happening in the Economic Engine of the world? And that engine AIN'T CHINA.

1. Americans have been buying beyond their means for at least 10-15 years now - encouraged to do that by low interest rates - and cheap products (from China) flooding their stores. The first people to get wacked of course are those who could least afford to play with credit. Does it stop there? Does anyone REALLY believe that?

"Oh, no Bill - it was only those poor-folk who were buying things they couldn't afford.."

2. So of course, the chain starts to fall apart..up he ladder we go.

3. First time in history - reported 2 or 3 years ago already, that Americans have NEGATIVE SAVINGS - and FIRST TIMEin history that's happened.

Do you really need a Master's Degree in economics to know what that means to the whole world? Does anyone NOT THINK that the US Govt is putting the breaks on its own currency and imports and deliberately shouting down Chinese products as inferior to prevent a complete catastrophe?

"Oh no Bill, it's business as usual..go on buy a condo in Bangkok as an investment to rent out --- TO WHOM??"

Im enjoying this thread immensely so far, even though it has deviated from the OPs question. Everybody has had valued input, some correct in my view, some not.

I do however agree entirely with genes post above.

Ive been in Thailand a long time (comparatively, to me anyway!) and have my property investments elsewhere. Never would i invest to rent here, though for sure it works for some. Just not for me.