Hot Water - Please!

[PhilHarries]

Even in Viet Nam there is hot water everywhere...Laos too (sometimes).

I was thinking about adding this piece but it's not Thailand related however you gave me an opening.

As you can see from the info under my avatar I am currently residing in a place called Quang Ngai. This is in central Viet Nam about 120km south of Da Nang.

I can assure you that hot water is a rarity in these parts, the hotel bathrooms and toilets have it but virtually nowhere else.

Anyway essentially there are no bars in town at all, a few cafes that serve warm beer and close 21:30 but that's about it. So we have taken to drinking outside a little shop on the corner where we can watch the world go by. Nothing much just a Thai style shophouse with a few tables and chairs outside and they manage to serve some cold beer but not all and the fridge is limited capacity.

So a bunch of us sitting there one rainy afternoon there being sod all else to do. The place catches the rainwater runoff from the tarpaulin roof we are sat under in a bucket. The rain eases off so a couple of the guys leave for the comforts of the hotel. With that one of the girls comes out, grabs the empty glasses and rinses them out in the bucket. That's it, no washing up liquid, no dishcloth just a rinse and drain dry. The same rainwater runoff is used for washing the family's cooking and eating utensils but at least there they do use washing liquid and dishcloth.

To make matters even better one of the girls periodically goes off to collect more ice. This comes in the form of a block about 18 x 9 x 6 inches (45 x 23 x 15 cm for you metricals) that is dropped on the sidewalk. It is then chopped up using a machette into smaller chunks for storage down there where feet tread and dogs p1ss. If it's a hot day and the girl isn't quick about getting the machete or is slow transferring the batches of chunks to storage one of the dogs will saunter over for a quick cold lick.

Just a snapshot of an alternative to Thailand. Life in S. E. Asia, a laugh a minute.

PS the "girls" I refer to are the two daughters of the shopkeepers not "girls" as in some parts of Thailand and are definately off limits. Although at 18 and 21 years old are certainly a temptation. I am kidding there, I get the impression that if any of us tried anything on the father would find an alternative use for the machette.

[NanLaew]

Even pre-boom China has hot water in many, many public places...and in hotels etc routinely.

That's a culture thing and btw the Chinese don't have hot water at all. They have scalding-hot boiling water!!!

Funnily enough, they don't use it to wash the dishes or take a shower either, only drinking.

Edited November 23, 2007 by NanLaew

[Youbloodybeauty]

oh. and those purell and other gel sterilizing things. well, unless u leave them on your skin 10+ minutes or so, they are inaffective. same as swabbing a site with alcohol. it just cleans surface dirt off a bit, doesnt sterilize at all. neither do those handy wipes that people use. useless except for psychological reasons of thinking u cleaned yourself up. yuck.

bina

Hi bina,

That's interesting. A local hospital has plastic pump bottles of alcohol outside each ward and staff often squirt and wipe their hands with it, dries quickly.

Is this useless too?

YBB

[bina]

i suspect so:

in our zoo caretaker courses we also get lectures about personal cleanliness since we can get zoonoses and there are lots of really nasty diseases floating around placentas, nasal discharges, urine etc.

we were taught to scrub SCRUB using either polidine soap or similar, using a nail brush... especially after handling afterbirths, reptiles (salmonella) , at least 10 minutes. after an animal bite ( or scratch from dirty type animals) .

q fever

brucellosis

chlymidia

lishteria

salmonella

e.coli

the list goes on...

so if we do that with animals, what do u think should be done about people??? before and after inserting my gloved hand into a goat wazoo, i scrub.... using polidine soap. not alcohol swabs.

they would have to really scrub well for a long time to make that effective. i suspose its better then not washing hands tought...

i wash my hands zillion times a day, and its all in freezing cold water cause the sink down in the visitor's area has only cold water (laws about the maximum hot water temperature make the hot water pretty useless for me anyway). the sink in the animal food kitchen has a dinky boiler with scalding hot water for about 10 minutes which i use mostly to defrost my hands.

bina

Edited November 23, 2007 by bina

[bina]

just checked up on the studies etc:

purell for instance does not help against any viruses at all , they state that in their 'FAQ'

from a study in colorado uni

The most effective regimen, which demonstrated a high immediate reduction of the E. coli, with the potential for further reductions with multiple applica-tions, was the 2-step wash in which the antibacterial soap was followed by the hand sanitizer.

While the study suggests that antimicrobial soaps and alcohol gel hand sanitizers are effective methods to microbial control, they were no more effective than mechanically removing microorganisms from hands during handwashing with non-antibacterial soap.

Frequent handwashing with warm soapy water is one of the simplest and most effective steps to preventing foodborne illness. Regardless of the type of soap or method used, the most important point is to increase the number of people who wash their hands. my bold print.....

Note that in this study the participants using the alcohol gel hand sanitizer put on 2 applications per washing cycle and were instructed to allow their hands to dry for five minutes before sampling for micro-organisms -- probably not a practice easily duplicated in retail settings. again my bold print

Source: Dairy, Food and Environmental Sanitation, Vol. 19, No. 10, pp. 680-684.

and if u were to read the purell (for instance) site for when to use: crayons?? u get your kids to sanitize everything they touch?!! geeez........ neurotic is all i can say...

i touch an aborted goat placenta (susptected chlymidia) with gloves and a double plastic bag, then i wash my hands. thats all. no hysteria...

bye bye....

[jayjayjayjay]

But really - why don't Thais use hot water to clean anything?

Coz Thai girls, ladies, mums and Aunties are all worried about their skin. If being dark is the worst afflication, having dry chaff skin is the second...... so they don't use hot water for anything!!!

[thaigene2]

just checked up on the studies etc:

purell for instance does not help against any viruses at all , they state that in their 'FAQ'

from a study in colorado uni

The most effective regimen, which demonstrated a high immediate reduction of the E. coli, with the potential for further reductions with multiple applica-tions, was the 2-step wash in which the antibacterial soap was followed by the hand sanitizer.

While the study suggests that antimicrobial soaps and alcohol gel hand sanitizers are effective methods to microbial control, they were no more effective than mechanically removing microorganisms from hands during handwashing with non-antibacterial soap.

Frequent handwashing with warm soapy water is one of the simplest and most effective steps to preventing foodborne illness. Regardless of the type of soap or method used, the most important point is to increase the number of people who wash their hands. my bold print.....

Note that in this study the participants using the alcohol gel hand sanitizer put on 2 applications per washing cycle and were instructed to allow their hands to dry for five minutes before sampling for micro-organisms -- probably not a practice easily duplicated in retail settings. again my bold print

Source: Dairy, Food and Environmental Sanitation, Vol. 19, No. 10, pp. 680-684.

and if u were to read the purell (for instance) site for when to use: crayons?? u get your kids to sanitize everything they touch?!! geeez........ neurotic is all i can say...

i touch an aborted goat placenta (susptected chlymidia) with gloves and a double plastic bag, then i wash my hands. thats all. no hysteria...

bye bye....

Okay Bina - I'm gripping hard now.

Your post above, unless I misunderstand it, supports some Univ. of Colorado study that talks about 'washing (hands) in warm soapy water' to avoid E-Coli. So wouldn't this actually also support the idea that DISHES should be also be washed in "warm" soapy water?

Oh, and the quote about: "I touch an aborted goat placenta (susptected chlymidia) with gloves and a double plastic bag, then i wash my hands. thats all. no hysteria... "

Tell that to the women in rural areas with atopic pregnancies..They didn't think much of gloves or plastic bags - so checking for clymidia - or treating it if they had it either - is unlikely as ignorance is bliss...Some things need to be treated seriously - and for good reason. Hot water included.

Edited November 24, 2007 by thaigene2

[SamuiBond]

I'm sure most expats living here have noticed how hot water in "most" places is non-existant

Hey. London should be top draw. Still you find plenty of hotels (in London) where you need to boil your hot water in a kettle or then put hot and cold water in a basin and mix it with your hands in order to get right temperature. London does have the highest price per square foot commercial rent in the world right now, It was either 300 US/Euros... Here we at least get the whole thing from one source althought it isn't the hottest...

[frenchFARANGbkk]

Unless your landlord won't allow it, you could install a hot water warmer/heater in your kitchen or bathroom sink if you want, right?

We have one in our kitchen. It definitely helps with greasy stuff, especially during the cool days or hours, and helps get things cleaner in general. We don't use it all the time, though. Usually the soap works well enough.

Yes correct. I could do that. But my question is 'why' donlt thais see this as a necessity when even 'poorer' neighbours do? Even pre-boom China has hot water in many, many public places...and in hotels etc routinely. I've stayed in so called boutique and 4 star joints in thailand with no hot water in the bathroom sink..It's funny in a way, they have all these fresheners and other things, but apparently after you take a dump you would then wash your hands in cold water..before raiding the mini-bar -- or worse -- before eating that little truffle they left on your pillow?

How can you compare?! Just check the temperature in China in winter.

I would feel so weak to use hot water for shower in Thailand that I don't want to use the water heater.

And about clothes, look at Thai, do they look dirty ?!

[uptou]

So a bunch of us sitting there one rainy afternoon there being sod all else to do. The place catches the rainwater runoff from the tarpaulin roof we are sat under in a bucket. The rain eases off so a couple of the guys leave for the comforts of the hotel. With that one of the girls comes out, grabs the empty glasses and rinses them out in the bucket. That's it, no washing up liquid, no dishcloth just a rinse and drain dry. The same rainwater runoff is used for washing the family's cooking and eating utensils but at least there they do use washing liquid and dishcloth.

Ahhhh yes,i did some time in NAM........,drinking the very cheap,warm beer hoi out of old plastic 1.5L coca cola bottles.

Ive also noticed the water collecting off of the roofs,sometimes off of what look like asbestos tiles.

As a side note since ive laid of the ice i seem to be having a firmer expereince on the toilet.

[bina]

thai gene : atopic pregnancies not just from chlymidia not sure what amount of brucellosis there is in thailand , i once asked no one could tell me but off topic .... but many other reasons also, age being a factor and again, washing hands is number one. with soap. is two. warm water is preferred. but not neccessary if u dont have it.

warm is needed but not required, it is the actual washing with changed water. not dipping in the same bucket (as i saw in ban chiang elementary school) as the soapy water and the rinse.

or the bar of soap in the hong naan.

its just the actual sloughing off of dirt etc.

and the proper soap.

just finished washing our dinner dishes from last night and the wok adn the rice pot ; cold water and good dish soap works well on grease, they are squeaky clean .

[ClaytonSeymour]

Hygiene tip: After you've washed the dishes, place on draining board, take one kettle of freshly boiled water and pour over them. I always do this, even though I've already washed them in hot water. Be careful with glass though, not usually problem if they've already been washed in hot water but, if they're cold, boiling water may cause them to crack.

I've never understood the cold water thing; even when hot water is available, many Thais just revert to type and use cold.

[appleman]

I have been washing dishes with cold water in Thailand for 40 years. My dishes are never greasy nor have I ever had any dish-germ related health issues.

If you want to wash your dishes with hot water, go right ahead.

[xerostar]

I had an instant electric hot water system installed in my wife's family bathroom.

I remember seeing the little children enduring the cold water slooshing from the old earthenware cask - out in the open at dusk.

They shivered and complained and got it over with as quickly as possible, often not really getting properly clean I think.

Now their shower time is a real fun time for them from the joyful sounds of laughter coming from the shower room.

Mum has to shoo them out of there, they love it so much!

No complaints from any of the adults (as long as you-know-who pays the electricity bills).

Aussies love their warm showers. It's one of life's little luxuries that nobody should have to do without.

Mind you, the dishes still turn up greasy at times so I'll have to do some more training sessions!

.

.

[Andiamo]

From what ive seen,thais are very concerned about personal cleanliness/hygene,but very relaxed when it comes to the house etc.

Mmm my input to this thread.... Same as Scott, we wash our dishes using the the kettle to heat the water first and mix with cold water so it is not scalding! (Plus, I wear rubber gloves to have 'fairy soft' hands to massage my other half! ). Using hot water makes it SO MUCH easier to wash pans, blenders, dirty glasses, plates and cutlery to cut through the grease - ESPECIALLY if they have been sitting on the side for a while! Dum de dum de dum

Re Uptoyou's quote above, I beg to differ..... Although I agree that the majority of Thais ARE very conscious about their looks and looking clean, tidy, smart etc, I have stopped beeing shocked now upon going to the Ladies Toilets with what I see... Or don't see

WHAT I HEAR YOU ASK?????

The overwhelming number of immaculate, smart, tidy, well-dressed girls/ladies who DO NOT wash their hands after using the above is ASTONISHING.....Yes, they go to the sink and apply makeup, do their hair, or just assess their face but IME, it is very rare for Thai females to wash their hands with soap. Some will run their hands or one hand under the tap...BUT NO SOAP! A small minority will use soap.

When I first came to Thailand, I could not believe what I was seeing... This is in all the SHopping Malls, Emporium, Siam Paragorn, Siam Discovery, MBK, Central World, Central ChitLom etc... Even when I go to the Bathroom with Thai friends and indirectly move to one side and ask them, "Oh, here you go....do you want to use the sink?" I often get a "No, it's ok, I'm just gonna put some lippy on, matt my face, reapply makeup etc. And, if I ask, why don't you wash your hands?" (These are my close friends so I'm not being offensive or rude), the response is a shrug or "It's ok, no need".

I won't even start with females who work in the restaurants, dentists (!) those well known coffee shops etc

I would be interested to hear others comments/experiences on this lack of hygiene - is it becasue it is not "visible" to others???.......

[girlx]

it may be just be a psychological comfort to use hot water to clean but for sure hot water cleans grease (and oily hair) better than cold. and it is a lot nicer on a chilly morning to have a hot shower.

[Andiamo]

Agreed Girlx!

[noungning]

when i first went to thailand, this was something i had to really adjust to, as i love the hot water. especially to shower in.

but after being there for a while, i kind of understood the whole point of not having the hot/warm water... the weather there is quite tropical and mostly warm to hot... it's not really necessary for hot water.

i was washing some dishes as i lived with some folks in bangkok, and i gotta say it was first annoying that the greasy dishes were harder to clean, but after the 2nd wash, the grease was gone. i don't really use hot water here in the states to wash dishes normally unless it's really cold and my fingers a freezing up. i really see the warm/hot water as a warmer, not a killing bacteria factor. as long as there is soup, dish washing detergent, with some lemon scent... i'm good to go.

and i agree with many, the tap water comes out warm over the summer months... unless u're in chiangmai when it gets really frosty, i don't think u need it in bangkok when it's like 90 degrees fahrenheit. also while i was in the rural, i have to admit i was getting cold to shower in cold water, but it was the matter of just pouring the bucket on myself over and over to get used to the cold water, and i was just fine.

and besides, thailand see utilizing hot water is just a waste of power and energy, you're not helping the country by consuming more energy which the country is trying to save.

[Upcountry]

Physical comfort, too!

I grew up with warm water showers. I associate cold water showers with "roughing it" on a camping trip. etc.

Given the historical lack of hot water for showering, dishes, etc., it certainly is an example of how affluent people waste energy. Personally, though, I'd rather look for a solar energy solution, than to accept cold water showers in the winter. I didn't come here to shiver.

In a related irony, it seems that cars built here do not come with cabin heaters. I guess it's not so cold in the northern areas that people can't deal with it (Burma, for instance, would be a different story). In other parts, such a thing would be an "option" you could select when you buy a car, but not here as far as I know. But cars were designed with heaters so it is kind of a cheat (to save manufacturing costs) to not put them in.

In Chiang Mai, I suppose there is no such thing as a space heater for the coldest nights (which is probably less of an issue lately). In the old days, people all over the world had to cope with only fire/coals to keep them warm. This may be a case where poor people who might set a fire to warm themselves have an advantage over those living in houses or apartments.

[SamuiBond]

I would be interested to hear others comments/experiences on this lack of hygiene - is it becasue it is not "visible" to others???.......

I bet you've never been to local meat/food market out doors!? LOL

Its infested with flies sitting on the piece of meet the you go and buy and further on ...EAT with a smile. Where that meet has been before that... I don't even wanna know. In Samui things are somewhat better what it used to be. I never really heard anyone dying of poor sanitation. Live and you'll see so much worse. Better yet. Wear white gloves and go to a hospital to check places (that's why here's no super bugs).

Your own system will kill these bacteries but only if you don't hide behind masks like Michael Jackson.