Has My Thai Lost His Thainess?

[Rickys]

Hi guys,

A strange title I know, but I just wanted to get others opinions on this as its made me curious.

I'm a pretty laid back guy and have learnt not to get too hot headed, much of which I have learnt from spending time with my Thai friend, who I see about 3 times a year.

Recently, I experienced something that took me back a bit. We went away on holiday outside of Thailand and were hunting for certain type of electrical product, which we were having problem tracking down. Eventually we were faithfully told that the item was available in another store, so we went to get it.

Needless to say when we got there, they had got the wrong end of the stick and hadn't got what we wanted at all. I was ready to let it drop but my Thai guy seemed to blow a gasket and turned on me and said "you should be more forceful!!" and then went silent on me for half an hour!

I apologised, and we talked about it and he said he knew it wasn't my nature and it seemed OK then. But I still think about it and feel quite inadequate about it, especially when I have tried to loose the western ways. Its as if there has been a bit of a role reversal.

Just wondered if anyone else had experienced this, or if there are any Thai guys that could throw some light on this one.

[londonthai]

that's what I have said to my partner just seconds ago - in her case constant worrying about the material future, despite being well off for thai.

[kek]

A lot of Thai guys seem to change when they go abroad; why it's difficult to say. My guess is that it's something connected with "Face." At home in Thailand everyone knows their social status and there is always someone who can 'put them in their place' - overseas nobody knows and (actually) nobody cares whether they are a khunying or a noodle stall vendor.

Had you promised this guy some special gift when you went abroad together - something that was unavailable in Thailand? eg: an IPhone? If it was promised you can bet he would have told all his friends that he would be getting one soon. If it was unavailable where you travelled then he will loose face when he sees his friends next time and cannot show them the much boasted trinket.

Even if you have provided the holiday of a lifetime with all travel, hotel and expenses included and paid for by you, plus trips to shopping malls on your visa card, he will still loose face if the facts get out ... even though all his friends really know where it came from - they won't let on. It will be twisted to appear to be your fault and the absence of the boasted gift will show you in a bad light ... not him!

Best solution is never to promise anything except 'a surprise'

[tgeezer]

Hi guys,

A strange title I know, but I just wanted to get others opinions on this as its made me curious.

I'm a pretty laid back guy and have learnt not to get too hot headed, much of which I have learnt from spending time with my Thai friend, who I see about 3 times a year.

Recently, I experienced something that took me back a bit. We went away on holiday outside of Thailand and were hunting for certain type of electrical product, which we were having problem tracking down. Eventually we were faithfully told that the item was available in another store, so we went to get it.

Needless to say when we got there, they had got the wrong end of the stick and hadn't got what we wanted at all. I was ready to let it drop but my Thai guy seemed to blow a gasket and turned on me and said "you should be more forceful!!" and then went silent on me for half an hour!

I apologised, and we talked about it and he said he knew it wasn't my nature and it seemed OK then. But I still think about it and feel quite inadequate about it, especially when I have tried to loose the western ways. Its as if there has been a bit of a role reversal.

Just wondered if anyone else had experienced this, or if there are any Thai guys that could throw some light on this one.

I know what you mean and can't figure it out. Today I wonder if when you hook-up you generally want something from each other, there is mutual respect, both parties satisfied. When you later are not forceing maybe they feel that have made a misjudgement and that their sacrifice was more than necessary and less would have produced the same result for them. Maybe they feel a weekness in themselves which needs a forceful personality in the partner as justification. Is this too deep for me? maybe I shouldn't say it without a degree in psycology. I am sure this is very common and others will chip-in.

[ProThaiExpat]

There is no question, after six years with my mate, that we have both learned from each other and have both changed, hopefully for the better.

He does all the driving and now yells at Thai drivers as I used to do. He has learned many English expressions, not all good ones, and uses them liberally. He has much less patience with Thai lethargy and lack of staff help. He has become more falang and I have become more Thai. I just don't think one can be involved in a intimate relationship for years and not adopt behaviors of your partner. I don't like some of his new smart alecky tactics but he gets along famously with falangs he spends time with at tennis and they seem to appreciate his more western ways.

Any Thai who has lived abroad surely changes so it is noticeable to Thais when he returns, even if he was not in a relationship.

[expatwannabe]

Something I have noticed about my Thai boyfriend of 7 years is that he is much more comfortable criticizing me than anyone else. I believe this is due to familiarity - or knowledge that his blowups won't affect the longevity of our relationship. But I am a little disturbed about it for the same reasons you spoke about, Rickys. I've tried to become more Thai to accomodate his beliefs, and at the same time he's become much more Western.

[sbk]

There is no question, after six years with my mate, that we have both learned from each other and have both changed, hopefully for the better.

He does all the driving and now yells at Thai drivers as I used to do. He has learned many English expressions, not all good ones, and uses them liberally. He has much less patience with Thai lethargy and lack of staff help. He has become more falang and I have become more Thai. I just don't think one can be involved in a intimate relationship for years and not adopt behaviors of your partner. I don't like some of his new smart alecky tactics but he gets along famously with falangs he spends time with at tennis and they seem to appreciate his more western ways.

Any Thai who has lived abroad surely changes so it is noticeable to Thais when he returns, even if he was not in a relationship.

Spot on target, even though I am not with a gay man, I am with a Thai man and I have to say this analysis applies to my husband as well. Part of the whole going overseas thing also has to do with seeing the inadequacies of their own country, and perhaps developing less patience for them.

[Rickys]

Thanks for the responses so far!

Its so good to know I am not alone. I guess my Thai friend has picked up a lot western ways, not only from me.

But I guess I can't really tell him this as it will deeply offend him.

Interestingly he let it slip that he doesn't really like taking friends to Patpong in Bangkok and refuses to help them shop and bargin, because "the sellers, speak badly of westerners." Of course as its in Thai we don't understand, but apparently we are being insulted.

Interestingly as well, I have also heard that some other Thai's think my friend is a bit "stuck-up"

Interesting to think we are dying to go and live there, whilst they are dying to get out!

Guess us Falang will always remain dazed and confused to the working of the Thai mind!

[Jingthing]

In what ways do you think Westerners change if we have to go back home? We must change living here too. I have only live here a year and I don't look forward to that possibility.

[PeaceBlondie]

After living away from home for many years, you can never really go home again. You and your home change so much that you drift apart. Partners pick up each others' traits, good and bad, and become more alike in the process. They teach in developmental psychology that every decade of life brings irreversible changes.

I can see living here forever, or returning to the interior of Mexico. But going back home, no, because it's not there anymore.

[ProThaiExpat]

PB: And I thought it was just me, even though I burnt no bridges, there is just no desire to go back. My old stomping grounds are very much photographed and in movies and it is not as it was when I lived there. I am sure the people have changed as well. I am not even nostalgic enough to want to go back for a "home visit". Thanks for your insightful post.

I suspect expats who are sent overseas on assignment for their companies approach their stay in Thailand or any foreign country differently that we who retire abroad and thus they yearn to return to their "homeland".

[wpcoe]

PB and PTE: I will "third" that sentiment.

I'm American, but haven't lived in the USA since early 1994. I have gone periods ranging from three to five years without setting foot on US soil, even though my family is there. When I do go back, it's just not the same. Just like people grow and develop over time, so do countries and cultures. America as a country and the American way of life are different now. It just isn't "home" for me any more over there. I have no desire to return.

[raro]

There is no question, after six years with my mate, that we have both learned from each other and have both changed, hopefully for the better.

He does all the driving and now yells at Thai drivers as I used to do. He has learned many English expressions, not all good ones, and uses them liberally. He has much less patience with Thai lethargy and lack of staff help. He has become more falang and I have become more Thai. I just don't think one can be involved in a intimate relationship for years and not adopt behaviors of your partner. I don't like some of his new smart alecky tactics but he gets along famously with falangs he spends time with at tennis and they seem to appreciate his more western ways.

Any Thai who has lived abroad surely changes so it is noticeable to Thais when he returns, even if he was not in a relationship.

Spot on target, even though I am not with a gay man, I am with a Thai man and I have to say this analysis applies to my husband as well. Part of the whole going overseas thing also has to do with seeing the inadequacies of their own country, and perhaps developing less patience for them.

I can assure you this is not limited to the gay community!

My Thai wife also yells at other drivers (I was not allowed to do that when we met), complains in shops and restaurants if the services rendered do not meet her expectations and under the bottom line it is me now who has to hold her back rather than the other way around....

[peter991]

Reading through this thread, two words stand out: face and familiarity.

Face is very important in Thailand, incredibly so. I learnt very early: never promise what you can't deliver. f my Thai asked for something, I gave one of three answers: No, Yes, I will try. That way he learnt he could trust me to deliver on my promises. As a result, he gained my trust too.

There's an old saying: familiarity breeds contempt. I don't think this applies here. I think as our Thai partners get to know us better, they can 'be themselves' and relax more. While we farangs most likely received an upbringing in which our gay instincts had to be 'repressed' the conformity drummed into Thais all their lives is able to be unshackled when they have a caring farang partner. This is my experience of Thai relationships.

Peter

[popshirt]

What informative replies in this thread! Thanks to all of you. I would like to add something pithy and intelligent but all I can think of is "I identify!"