Bible Thumpers, Proselytizers Special Visa Or Voa?

[meemiathai]

I did not believe before...........until I saw this

[kankaroo]

Once again we churn out the anti faith bigotry. One day Islam, today Christianity.

Better if those Christian types stuck to running orphanages for the unwanted children of sex tourists eh!

OK they can extend their services to looking after the victims of HIV AIDS.

And I guess nobody is complaining about them working with drug addicts, the homeless, the desperately poor and the stateless ethnic minority 'hill tribes'.

Just don't let them talk about why they want to do some good in the world and where they get their inspiration from.

Some good points GH, however the ones that bang on outside Nana Plaza etc etc are just plain making fools of themselves. If they were in a hill tribe orphanage or the likes, then hats off !

I mean come on, the Nana crowd (or the likes) converting ? maybe sometime in later life, but can you imagine them getting even ONE convert there, on the night, ever ?

I happened to be with a girl who worked in a shop in Panthip Plaza, whom I asked out for noodles after work. She blushed and obliged She couldn't speak a word of English and I enjoyed practicing my Thai. We took a stroll along Sukhumvit to enjoy some people watching etc and came across this bible passage screaming lot outside the entrance to Nana Plaza. I asked questions and listened intently while introducing my lady friend. He tried to talk to her but as she spoke no English he just stared at me. I gave him a kind of wink sort of like saying "who cares if they speak English or not".

He was horrified and went onto somebody else

Later when I explained it to the girl she giggled then playfully slapped me for the insinuation.

BTW it was a very good ending to the evening

[tgeezer]

After 4.5 years here, I can count the missionaries I've met on one hand, well two hands at the most. The most recent ones is the Asian couple who are ministering to their own race of foreigners. Someone in Chiang Mai pointed out that 99% of all the converts to Christianity he's seen are Hill Tribe animists, not regular Thai Buddhists. I worked with a Thai lady who was raised by missionaries as an orphan; she's a Buddhist. The Jesuit priest missionaries I've met are nice folks, and not screaming on street corners. The tuk tuk driver at the gay sauna is a happily married, straight, Hill Tribe Catholic. I met a former missionary; she's a lesbian Christian non-missionary now. I guess those Mennonite ladies teaching school might count, unless you realize what mild forms of 'evangelistic work' most Mennonites do. I've glanced at some obvious Mormons, but they were riding past on bicycles. I may have dined with some at Duke's this week, but they didn't identify themselves; in fact, McGriffith was doing most of the shouting.

I've seen more harmful Thais than I've seen farang missionaries. And I'm trained to recognize missionary types. Oh, I did attend their church a couple of times, but they sang without shouting, and I had to go there to find them.

I think Taksin Shinawatra did more harm to Thailand in ten years than all the missionaries have ever done.

Good post, discussions on religions are like swimming pools; 'all the noise is at the shallow end'

[toptuan]

After 4.5 years here, I can count the missionaries I've met on one hand, well two hands at the most. The most recent ones is the Asian couple who are ministering to their own race of foreigners. Someone in Chiang Mai pointed out that 99% of all the converts to Christianity he's seen are Hill Tribe animists, not regular Thai Buddhists. I worked with a Thai lady who was raised by missionaries as an orphan; she's a Buddhist. The Jesuit priest missionaries I've met are nice folks, and not screaming on street corners. The tuk tuk driver at the gay sauna is a happily married, straight, Hill Tribe Catholic. I met a former missionary; she's a lesbian Christian non-missionary now. I guess those Mennonite ladies teaching school might count, unless you realize what mild forms of 'evangelistic work' most Mennonites do. I've glanced at some obvious Mormons, but they were riding past on bicycles. I may have dined with some at Duke's this week, but they didn't identify themselves; in fact, McGriffith was doing most of the shouting.

I've seen more harmful Thais than I've seen farang missionaries. And I'm trained to recognize missionary types. Oh, I did attend their church a couple of times, but they sang without shouting, and I had to go there to find them.

I think Taksin Shinawatra did more harm to Thailand in ten years than all the missionaries have ever done.

Good post, discussions on religions are like swimming pools; 'all the noise is at the shallow end'

Oh, that one's a keeper!

[PeaceBlondie]

How much money the megalithic world-wide Catholic church has, is kind of irrelevant to Thailand. Besides, if you divide their net worth by the number of Catholics, it may average only $100 per person, just peanuts. Probably all the missionaries here send no money back home, but receive support from home to live in Thailand. And before we go on and on about those missionaries who spent 300 baht dining at the Duke's the other night, each of us farang non-thumpers spent about 600 baht.

So, we've kind of narrowed down the outrage to the guy who occasionally screams outside of Nana Plaza or Soi Cowboy, who is outnumbered by sexmongers about 100:1. Pot, kettle. Or as Jesus said, speck, log in our eye. And we admit the Catholic church puts kids up for adoption who might otherwise have been aborted. And it's okay for the Protestants to convert Hill Tribe people from animism (usually, not always). Some of us complain that some missionaries are still stuck in the 1800's, trying to impose Western culture on indigenous peoples. We all seem to agree that most Thai Buddhists are caught up in materialism and modern consumerism. Nobody - for years now on internet forums, nobody - is arguing against the actual words reportedly said by the founder of Christianity. We're just complaining, correctly, that Christians (and other believers) do such a lousy job of attaining the perfectionism preached by their religions. As if the non-religious are living perfectly by whatever they believe.

[Gimbo]

You gotta give these people a bit or respect for coming half way across the world and doing what they do. You don't have to like it, and just politiely say no thanks. Or even better, invite them in and have a chat.

I don't have to give them anything, and they the only thing they'll get for me for coming half way across the world to spread their intollerant, cruel drivel is my contempt.. Invite them in? You do not invite low lives like that into your house...

[Stephen Cleary]

There may be a special 'R' visa on offer but where i live, i know and have heard of NO bible thumper holding such a visa. Our town gets a steady flow of Filipino Jehova Witnesses who either stay here for a couple of months or stay on as English teachers for a long long while. Often just on tourist visas.

I know the ins-and-outs of this organization here and can promise you that none of them get a special visa for their bible-bashing door-knocking activities.

[GuestHouse]

So, we've kind of narrowed down the outrage to the guy who occasionally screams outside of Nana Plaza or Soi Cowboy, who is outnumbered by sexmongers about 100:1. Pot, kettle.

Or perhaps the Pot doesn't like to be reminded of a few things.

[jayjayjayjay]

I think we have stumbled upon the next great LOOPHOLE. Immigration authorities, take note!

I am under the impression that to these sort of fundamentalists, Buddhism is the devil's work, so again you have to admire Thai tolerance for allowing this to go on.

Bingo, it's like a shining light, a revalation. Therefore, me, if without a work permit, at 41 yrs and the sole guardian and father of my 2 daughters (both Thai citizens) I will be unceromonsously marched to the airport and told to leave within 15 days of leaving a my job!!!! I'm converted, where can I find god......... I'm gonna buy one of them bicycles, does anyone know the make and model. I think I can get the little nametags made at Robinson's. Gotta find me a church, CM-happy, anyone, can you recommend a church!!!

[Naam]

You gotta give these people a bit or respect for coming half way across the world and doing what they do. You don't have to like it, and just politiely say no thanks. Or even better, invite them in and have a chat.

I don't have to give them anything, and they the only thing they'll get for me for coming half way across the world to spread their intollerant, cruel drivel is my contempt.. Invite them in? You do not invite low lives like that into your house...

although my view is negative on "bible thumpers" i used to enjoy years ago discussions with them. Jehovas Witnesses were extremely boring and narrow minded but with some young (very educated and polite) Mormon chaps -who had an excellent command of two or three languages- i spent some interesting hours.

[Jingthing]

And I guess nobody is complaining about them working with drug addicts, the homeless, the desperately poor and the stateless ethnic minority 'hill tribes'.

Of course not. Good works are good works. You don't have to believe in religious fairy tales to want to help people. But if the intent is not so much to help rather to "save souls" with bribery, here eat this starving child but you must pray to my God first or no food for you. That is arrogant and imperialistic.

Clearly, in the name of God and ALL religions, people have done deeds that show humanity at its best, and also at its worst, now, and throughout history.

Edited November 29, 2007 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Bible Thumpers / Bible Bashers. All from the same ilk. Ever notice the similarities?

No.

Do you find "bible bashers" from majority Muslim/Budhist/Jewish/Hindu nations traveling to small towns in Utah to persuade the local people to change their culture and religion?

Of course you don't. That would be disrespectful, and also, if they tried, they would risk being shot dead.

If some "heathen" as they are called by the believers wants to "come to Jesus" let them come with their own human free will and take the action to seek this change. I think it is objectively a wrong to cram this down people's throats or more commonly deceptively buy converts, bringing money from richer nations to poorer nations to seek out the most vulnerable and desperate, easy pickings for the "soul" collectors.

Edited November 29, 2007 by Jingthing

[Scott]

I've run into a few of them and found them, by and large to be rather nice people. I am a real heathen and perhaps they've decided some souls aren't worth saving after meeting me, but I haven't run into a problem with them.

Live and let live. My reasons for being here are at definite odds with their reasons for being here.

[Dustoff]

How much money the megalithic world-wide Catholic church has, is kind of irrelevant to Thailand. Besides, if you divide their net worth by the number of Catholics, it may average only $100 per person, just peanuts. Probably all the missionaries here send no money back home, but receive support from home to live in Thailand. And before we go on and on about those missionaries who spent 300 baht dining at the Duke's the other night, each of us farang non-thumpers spent about 600 baht.

So, we've kind of narrowed down the outrage to the guy who occasionally screams outside of Nana Plaza or Soi Cowboy, who is outnumbered by sexmongers about 100:1. Pot, kettle. Or as Jesus said, speck, log in our eye. And we admit the Catholic church puts kids up for adoption who might otherwise have been aborted. And it's okay for the Protestants to convert Hill Tribe people from animism (usually, not always). Some of us complain that some missionaries are still stuck in the 1800's, trying to impose Western culture on indigenous peoples. We all seem to agree that most Thai Buddhists are caught up in materialism and modern consumerism. Nobody - for years now on internet forums, nobody - is arguing against the actual words reportedly said by the founder of Christianity. We're just complaining, correctly, that Christians (and other believers) do such a lousy job of attaining the perfectionism preached by their religions. As if the non-religious are living perfectly by whatever they believe.

Well said, PB.

Religious superstition runs rampant throughout humanity and will yet for a very long time to come so we may as well get used to it.

And like politics their follower's efforts and effects range from selfless altruism to death and destruction.

I don't understand why so many here would choose hawkers of this particular superstition to condemn - perhaps just because they are the ones within eyesight? Surely there are more important things to crab about in Thailand?

Nah...

Edited November 29, 2007 by Dustoff

[Jingthing]

Dusty, because that is the topic we are talking about here.

If you think there is another group we should condemn, start a new thread.

[PeaceBlondie]

Oh, all right, if this is the appropriate, topic-specific, ThaiVisa thread for bashing the religious activities of certain Christians that you meet even in Thailand, please hand me some nonviolent, Christian bashing tool. Thank you. Now I can nonviolently bash the Christians who think it's Godly and Perfectly Righteous to kill people in Jesus' name. In fact, God condemns violence done in Jesus' name. God may condemn violence done in Buddha's name, too. And let me bash the Christians who think social justice and true peace making is only for heathen liberals and the Amish.

Now, that makes me feel better.

[Scott]

I wonder if before applying for a "religious" visa, these folks see a fortune teller to find an auspicious date!

[begsaresponse]

Thai society is tolerant of various Religions.

However Mormons,Jehovah Witnesses,the Moonies. Seventh Day Adventists and the like are "sects" seeking to convert you and anyone else to their 'way'. They don't fit well into the Christian arena.

Their doctrines are a corruption of 'normal Christian dogma'.

[meadish_sweetball]

Seems to me that whatever school of thought you assign yourself to 'all the others are wrong'.

Sorry if this sounds pompous, but I am of the belief that 'all the others are a little right' and if you fail to listen, you are the one who will be proven wrong in the end.

[Jingthing]

All others? Nazis? Ku Klux Klan?

No, I am not saying that Mormons are as bad as those groups, so chill out.

I also see a difference between peaceful believers and militant converters. Of course, other religions are militant as well, Islam being the obvious one to mention, which has grown like gangbusters all over the world especially in Africa.

With groups like the Mormons there is a catch 22. Of course, religious tolerance is a wonderful thing, but part of their religion is active conversions. Tricky and difficult because I think for a country like Thailand to allow that kind of foreign group actually takes tolerance too far.

It is kind of funny about the Jews, who under no circumstances actively convert, yet have had so many problems with persecution. Maybe they would have been smarter to follow the Mormon model.

Edited November 29, 2007 by Jingthing

[meadish_sweetball]

Nice rhetoric and I guess you have a point there.

Still, I think it somehow applies - I have tried to learn about the KKK and the Nazis as well. The problem as I see it is they base most of their world view on premises that are strongly discriminatory against some groups. I wasn't quite referring to them when I wrote the above, although I do think it's possible that even KKK and Nazi members have had ideas worth listening to, outside the area of racial discrimination.

What I mean is that it's worth giving people the chance to explain their ideas to you at least once while keeping an open mind. I think if you're blessed with average levels of intelligence and empathy you won't go with either the KKK or the Nazis.

And if you decide, from the start, without treating people as individuals, that all missionaries are of the same icky ilk, you might miss out on some people that could have made good friends, or at least interesting conversation partners.

[Dustoff]

Nice rhetoric and I guess you have a point there.

Still, I think it somehow applies - I have tried to learn about the KKK and the Nazis as well. The problem as I see it is they base most of their world view on premises that are strongly discriminatory against some groups. I wasn't quite referring to them when I wrote the above, although I do think it's possible that even KKK and Nazi members have had ideas worth listening to, outside the area of racial discrimination.

What I mean is that it's worth giving people the chance to explain their ideas to you at least once while keeping an open mind. I think if you're blessed with average levels of intelligence and empathy you won't go with either the KKK or the Nazis.

And if you decide, from the start, without treating people as individuals, that all missionaries are of the same icky ilk, you might miss out on some people that could have made good friends, or at least interesting conversation partners.

"Icky ilk"?

Good post and I agree about preconceptions without regard to individual people.

For many years I invited door-to-door religion peddlers to come in for tea and conversation but found their ability to engage in meaningful interchange seriously lacking since they tended to relate everything to their belief in ancient mythology and superstition. I found it kind of like chatting with people at a UFO convention where everyone wants to know if you too "have seen the aliens walking our streets".

Umm, what to say other than recommending professional counseling...?

I have always been thankful that I was raised without any kind of 'supernatural being programming' and, as far back as I can trace my family tree (both mom and dad), I can find no indication of any faith based on ancient mythology.

Not that I haven't studied the religions of the world and while I find Christian/Islamic/Jewish mythology a bit boring, I do find some like ancient Greek mythology kinda fun.

There is just no way however that I would ever consider taking on a superstition as a system of belief.

When asked if I believe in God, I usually simply respond that I cannot help but stand in awe of the richness of human imagination...

Edited November 29, 2007 by Dustoff

[meadish_sweetball]

"Icky ilk"?

Yeah, sorry about that, I can rarely resist the temptation to try alliteration in my allocutions.

[sbk]

elocutions, meadish

You'll have to come up with something else

[sylviex]

allusions

[kiakaha]

In the grand scheme of things, the human brain is far too primitive and limited to arrive at an answer.The mere existence of deity oriented religions is the epitomy of human arrogance.

[corkscrew]

When the news first surfaced that Romney would run for the US Prez I became curious about Mormonism so I went to the Mormon web site and ordered a free Book of Mormons. This was here in Bangkok. Anyway, about a week passed...then I got a phone call from a Mormon who wanted to deliver the book. A few hours later two white-shirted, black tied, black slacked, black shoulder-bagged guys showed up at our apartment. They were on a two year mission in Bangkok to convert people. They lost interest in me when I said I was keen on polygamy and that's why I ordered the book.

The book makes a good read....even sillier than the bible.

[corkscrew]

Nice rhetoric and I guess you have a point there.

Still, I think it somehow applies - I have tried to learn about the KKK and the Nazis as well. The problem as I see it is they base most of their world view on premises that are strongly discriminatory against some groups. I wasn't quite referring to them when I wrote the above, although I do think it's possible that even KKK and Nazi members have had ideas worth listening to, outside the area of racial discrimination.

What I mean is that it's worth giving people the chance to explain their ideas to you at least once while keeping an open mind. I think if you're blessed with average levels of intelligence and empathy you won't go with either the KKK or the Nazis.

And if you decide, from the start, without treating people as individuals, that all missionaries are of the same icky ilk, you might miss out on some people that could have made good friends, or at least interesting conversation partners.

"Icky ilk"?

Good post and I agree about preconceptions without regard to individual people.

For many years I invited door-to-door religion peddlers to come in for tea and conversation but found their ability to engage in meaningful interchange seriously lacking since they tended to relate everything to their belief in ancient mythology and superstition. I found it kind of like chatting with people at a UFO convention where everyone wants to know if you too "have seen the aliens walking our streets".

Umm, what to say other than recommending professional counseling...?

I have always been thankful that I was raised without any kind of 'supernatural being programming' and, as far back as I can trace my family tree (both mom and dad), I can find no indication of any faith based on ancient mythology.

Not that I haven't studied the religions of the world and while I find Christian/Islamic/Jewish mythology a bit boring, I do find some like ancient Greek mythology kinda fun.

There is just no way however that I would ever consider taking on a superstition as a system of belief.

When asked if I believe in God, I usually simply respond that I cannot help but stand in awe of the richness of human imagination...

Good post, Dustoff.

[Jingthing]

They lost interest in me when I said I was keen on polygamy and that's why I ordered the book.

That's a good one. Lets all order the book and waste their time and money.

[samran]

"Icky ilk"?

Yeah, sorry about that, I can rarely resist the temptation to try alliteration in my allocutions.

don't worry Meadish, when I am able to post my thoughts on religion in Swedish,then I'll get back to you with the corrections