Do You Hear The Word Farang Used By Thais In A Derogatory Way?

[sbk]

I am interested in the word Khek - it simultaneously means Indian person/customer/and Muslim...

My dear seonai .. please , if you know any thais you can trust go and ask them about this word..it has nothing to do, with what you wrote, but used exclusively on south asians>indians, often thai citizens, meaning 'guest' (to show them how welcome they are here ) no wonder we don't hear it often ..

Actually, asiaworld, you are incorrect, khek is also applied to Thai Muslims (not of Indian descent) and if you'd take the time to peruse the Thai Language forum you'd see a conversation just recently where it used to mean guest or customer.

Regardless, I only take offense if offense is given. So, I guess I am of the "I don't find the use of the word farang to be an insult" category.

[PeaceBlondie]

On third thought, maybe I haven't heard myself being referred to as "farang" because the teachers and students always addressed me as "ajarn." Some address me by my first name, "Peace" and others call me "Mr. Blondie." When I went to Ireland, many called me "Dad" and "Grandpa."

By the powers invested in me by ThaiVisa, I hereby award this discussion as "silliest long argument of the year."

[GuestHouse]

So after the discussion, what was the word given by the company to the thais to substitute the word "farang" when trying to describe "caucasian"?

You've not been paying attention have you?! The company did not substitute any word - Employees discussed the impact of a number f behaviors and language usages in terms of the impact on others and agreed not to use those that were causing problems - There are plenty of other terms of address that we all know and use in the kind of polite conversation that anyone might expect in a professional environment

And also just because your company does not allow the f word, you are saying that the f word is widely used in thailand in a negative manner? How do you explain it when it even is used on TV?

Well I did give you an example outside the office, but you chose to not to believe it. How do I explain the language used on TV? - Language that is not acceptable now was frequently used on TV a few years back.

Do you at least agree if there is no reason for a thai to dislike you then most probably the farang word coming from his mouth is not meant offensive?

No I do not agree.

People the world over go around abusing others who they don't even know, let alone have reason to dislike.

[Jingthing]

By the powers invested in me by ThaiVisa, I hereby award this discussion as "silliest long argument of the year."

For reals? That is quite something.

[chanchao]

The word "farang" being used to insult an American on thai TV show

Excellent.. Good example of how the word 'Farang' is completely appropriate in colloquial speech. And a fun clip at that.

Some people just want to be paranoid I guess, or are just overly anal about life in general.

[Jingthing]

overly anal

Guilty! (but maybe in a different way than you mean ...)

Edited December 4, 2007 by Jingthing

[JetsetBkk]

By the powers invested in me by ThaiVisa, I hereby award this discussion as "silliest long argument of the year."

For reals? That is quite something.

I detect a hint of unwarranted pride there, jingthing!

[Jingthing]

By the powers invested in me by ThaiVisa, I hereby award this discussion as "silliest long argument of the year."

For reals? That is quite something.

I detect a hint of unwarranted pride there, jingthing!

Depends on whether you value silliness, or not, I suppose. Already owned up to being the antichrist, so what do you expect?

Edited December 4, 2007 by Jingthing

[cobra]

If I wanted a therapist, I would go to a professional one.

Probably not a bad idea as you are as out of focus as much as your avatar is.

From your conspiracy theories about baht bus mafias, to whether shop keepers / staff are calling you cheap and if it was meant derogatorily (you found out it was), to the injustice of being charged an extra 5 baht to ride the bus, you appear paranoid, bitter and insecure, which has finally brought you to the possibility of professional help for you, kudos, let the healing begin.

I have no doubt that any interactions with you from Thais will result in them using the term Farang in a negative sense.

[Jingthing]

Cobra

I have no doubt that any interactions with you from Thais will result in them using the term Farang in a negative sense.

Khun Scary Snake: I see. Welcome fan!

Funny, I haven't noticed its all that bad myself.

So I will put you down in the not NEVER column, yes?

Hows that for jai yen folks?

BTW: The verdict is well in. The consensus is that the vast majority of people have personally experienced hearing the F word used in a negative way. No surprise of course. Maybe there is nothing more to say on the topic?

Edited December 4, 2007 by Jingthing

[jumnien]

There is no word in any language that has not been used in a negative way!

[rysbrnr]

As a fluent Thai (Issan)/Laotian speaking American I can assure you that the word "Farang" is generally not used in a derogative manner. What's kind of funny is that the actual meaning of Farang (Fa-lung) really means "French person".

I would consider it derogatory to be called 'French' in any language.

It's a popular misconception that this is where farang came from, but I think there's been enough debate in the past here on TV and other places. If interested Google 'farang origin'. 'farangset' is actually a derivation from 'farang', not vice versa.

Most Asian languages have far more derogatory terms than 'farang' in Thai for Caucasians, 'gweilo' (white devil) in Cantonese comes to mind. I've only heard farang used negatively in tourist areas and my in-laws house.

I also find the farang = French theory unbelievable.

I better clear things up a little better on this matter. Farang is meant to be French as Laotians would use it. I can't speak for Thai (Krung Thep) because it nearly a different language/dialect all together compared to Issan (Thai/Lao) which is what I speak. My Mom's family live in France (Originally Laos) and when they say Farang it means the French. But my family in Roi Et, Sakhon Nakhon say Farang to mean white people so maybe the meaning for Farang varies from region to region. As far as I know... my Lao side of the family use Farang to mean French NOT just foreign caucasians in Thailand. Before the EURO was born, France used the "FRANC" as their unit of money, we called French money "Farang" so if a cheeseburger was 15 Francs... we said it was "seep-ha faran". Strange eh? If Farang only means white people, Then I don't know why Germans have their own name (yea-la-mun) sp?, English have there own (ung-keet) and even American's have their own term. Maybe Lao use Farang for French because of the French occupation of Laos back during the war?.. I don't know.

There's no point in arguing the origin of Farang anyway... whether you're Thai, Issan, or Lao it is my opinion that it is not a derogatory word. I do agree that in most context it is a slang word that it used to define a race but none the less a non-negative word overall. I do sense Farang used more negatively in Bangkok more than out in the country which is probably due to more tourists and bad encounters with them. To be a "Farang" in the countryside seems more of a novelty and more welcomed and less frowned upon like in BK. Anyone with personal experience agree?

[KhunDennis]

Personally I do not call people out by their race, and it makes me uncomfortable to hear other people do so. Now I live in a country where it is common to do this, but I still don't like it.

I hear this word almost daily as I pass by, and knowing it is not meant to be really derogatory helps but, it still makes me uncomfortable to hear it. Just a daily reminder that you are not one of us.

[rysbrnr]

Personally I do not call people out by their race, and it makes me uncomfortable to hear other people do so. Now I live in a country where it is common to do this, but I still don't like it.

I hear this word almost daily as I pass by, and knowing it is not meant to be really derogatory helps but, it still makes me uncomfortable to hear it. Just a daily reminder that you are not one of us.

Yes, in a perfect world no one would call on others because of their race. Instead of saying "please help the black guy over there" one should say "please help that guy over there." But there are times when you must identify someone and the easiest way is to define by race. Race is also used as an adjective (descriptive) like the "red" car so I don't think there is any other way around that.

In a sea of black haired people in a crowded market, how else would someone simply identify the "white" guy in the crowd without calling him "the white guy"?

[mr_hippo]

Personally I do not call people out by their race, and it makes me uncomfortable to hear other people do so. Now I live in a country where it is common to do this, but I still don't like it.

I hear this word almost daily as I pass by, and knowing it is not meant to be really derogatory helps but, it still makes me uncomfortable to hear it. Just a daily reminder that you are not one of us.

But you are not!

[KhunDennis]

I have been knocking around this country for a fair bit of time now, and I am fully aware of the reasons the Thais use this term. It is just, that this habit buts heads with my own personal convictions, so it gives me a twinge when someone calls me that.

I don't let it ruin my day, and I still like living here, and I do like the Thai people in general, but it still makes me a little uncomfortable anyway. That is just my own feelings, right or wrong.

[chanchao]

There is no word in any language that has not been used in a negative way!

"Love, Peace and Understanding" ?

[ade100]

Personally I do not call people out by their race, and it makes me uncomfortable to hear other people do so. Now I live in a country where it is common to do this, but I still don't like it.

I hear this word almost daily as I pass by, and knowing it is not meant to be really derogatory helps but, it still makes me uncomfortable to hear it. Just a daily reminder that you are not one of us.

Yes, in a perfect world no one would call on others because of their race. Instead of saying "please help the black guy over there" one should say "please help that guy over there." But there are times when you must identify someone and the easiest way is to define by race. Race is also used as an adjective (descriptive) like the "red" car so I don't think there is any other way around that.

In a sea of black haired people in a crowded market, how else would someone simply identify the "white" guy in the crowd without calling him "the white guy"?

I agree with both of these replies but would add that I see “farang” more as being impolite than derogatory. But then having grown up in the UK there are many things that are accepted in Thailand that I find a little impolite: - pointing, staring, coughing without covering their mouths, etc. It’s just a different code of conduct that I have to adapt to. And conversely there were certain things I was doing that they found impolite (picking up prawns and eating them with my fingers for example).

Interesting to note though in Singapore, I am referred to “Ade”, “Adrian”, “the British guy” or “a Caucasian” depending on how well they know me. In Thailand I am referred to as “Khun Farang” even by my girlfriend when talking to someone else who knows my name. Mostly I just find it amusing.

[PeaceBlondie]

Buffalo Springfield sang, "Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always alone..." I think some of this perception of being described as farang by Thai people is partly paranoid imagination. But then, I'm often mistaken. However, I am never mistaken for a Thai!

[meemiathai]

There is no word in any language that has not been used in a negative way!

"Love, Peace and Understanding" ?

I would say that GH is a person with "Love, Peace and understanding".

[meemiathai]

Personally I do not call people out by their race, and it makes me uncomfortable to hear other people do so. Now I live in a country where it is common to do this, but I still don't like it.

I hear this word almost daily as I pass by, and knowing it is not meant to be really derogatory helps but, it still makes me uncomfortable to hear it. Just a daily reminder that you are not one of us.

But you are not!

I must agree that it is indeed a bit of a turn-off hearing that if one is engaged in an orgy, but apart from that I feel fine about the fact of not being one of them.

[bendix]

BTW: The verdict is well in. The consensus is that the vast majority of people have personally experienced hearing the F word used in a negative way. No surprise of course. Maybe there is nothing more to say on the topic?

On the contrary. Perhaps this is more true: The vast majority of people (who are paranoid enough and motivated enough to vote on such an issue) have personally experienced hearing the F word used negatively.

The vast majority of the rest think you're rather sad.

[Jingthing]

On the contrary. Perhaps this is more true: The vast majority of people (who are paranoid enough and motivated enough to vote on such an issue) have personally experienced hearing the F word used negatively.

The vast majority of the rest think you're rather sad.

bendix, its hard to really know where you are coming from. Its like you are the ultimate apologist for all things Thai no matter how onerous, but at least you play the role consistently.

I reject that the motivation of voters in the poll says anything about the paranoia level of the voters, in fact, check the results, the slight edge is for not hearing it very often used negatively. Also note the very small percentage who think the word itself is a slur. Actually, this evidence shows the exact opposite bias to your theory was possibly in play.

Personal attacks don't bother me, if it gives you pleasure, keep at it. One thing is clear, you don't like me, and I don't like you. It would bother me if someone with your views did like me, so keep it up!

Edited December 5, 2007 by Jingthing

[bendix]

On the contrary. Perhaps this is more true: The vast majority of people (who are paranoid enough and motivated enough to vote on such an issue) have personally experienced hearing the F word used negatively.

The vast majority of the rest think you're rather sad.

bendix, its hard to really know where you are coming from. Its like you are the ultimate apologist for all things Thai no matter how onerous, but at least you play the role consistently.

I reject that the motivation of voters in the poll says anything about the paranoia level of the voters, in fact, check the results, the slight edge is for not hearing it very often used negatively. Also note the very small percentage who think the word itself is a slur. Actually, this evidence shows the exact opposite bias to your theory was possibly in play.

Personal attacks don't bother me, if it gives you pleasure, keep at it. One thing is clear, you don't like me, and I don't like you. It would bother me if someone with your views did like me, so keep it up!

awwwwww, you edited out the 'right wing' comment before i could reply :-)

You're so wrong jingthing. I do like you. I wish i could do more to help you get over your feelings of being persecuted and victimised here.

Me a thai apologist? Far from it. I am here to rape and pillage the country and leverage the cheap costs so I can use my salary to live very well indeed, thank you very much. When I'm done with that, I may or may not move on. I hardly care. I'll decide when that moment comes.

But, you see, I see myself as being a much-need counterbalance to those farangs who seem to relish being so miserable here. It makes me wonder about their lives and why they put up with such hardships. Is it because they have no other choices, or are/were they equally miserable in their old countries?

[Jingthing]

I am here to rape and pillage the country

Rape and pillage, huh? Well, brownie points for admitting it, right wing capitalist scum (ha ha ha).

I think each of us has our own story. In my case, like most people, my old country life had its ups and downs. I am happier living here now and would like to stay. I think you are kind of being a drama queen accusing everyone who has some negative things to say about life in Thailand a miserable loser.

Edited December 5, 2007 by Jingthing

[bendix]

I am here to rape and pillage the country

Rape and pillage, huh? Well, brownie points for admitting it, right wing capitalist scum (ha ha ha).

I think each of us has our own story. In my case, like most people, my old country life had its ups and downs. I am happier living here now and would like to stay. I think you are kind of being a drama queen accusing everyone who has some negative things to say about life in Thailand a miserable loser.

Being called a drama queen by someone who is upset by the word farang, who worries that he is a second class citizen and who gets upset enough by a teeshirt peddled by a Pattaya vendor to rush home and post about it on Thaivisa is kind of ironic, but I'll let it pass . . .

[HS Mauberley]

We should add a second question “How many people actually speak enough Thai to be able to tell" My guess would be less than 10%, probably less than 5%.

Thats a fair point, but the other factor is how the way it is used makes us FEEL.

Personally, I do not like the feeling of walking down a strange street and hearning whispers of FARANG FARANG. The intent is not rudeness but the feeling is.

You've already admitted - on page one - that the poll is meaningless or, to the extent that it does have meaning, it reveals only the perceptions foreigners have about words which they don't understand. So we now know that the majority of respondents to this poll are mildly paranoid. And? Fear is an unsurprising response to being placed in an environment which one doesn't control or understand but it's clear that this has shown nothing about the 'meaning' of the word farang or the intent of Thai speakers when they use it.

[Jingthing]

Being called a drama queen by someone who is upset by the word farang, who worries that he is a second class citizen and who gets upset enough by a teeshirt peddled by a Pattaya vendor to rush home and post about it on Thaivisa is kind of ironic, but I'll let it pass . . .

That was funny, but false.

1. Not upset about the word farang, I use it myself.

2. I don't worry that I am 2nd class citizen. I am not even a citizen here with no hope of that either.

3. I wanted to know whether people agreed that calling America Naziland was offensive, I am a curious guy

Edited December 5, 2007 by Jingthing

[meemiathai]

Me a thai apologist? Far from it. I am here to rape and pillage the country and leverage the cheap costs so I can use my salary to live very well indeed, thank you very much. When I'm done with that, I may or may not move on. I hardly care. I'll decide when that moment comes.

This level of honesty is rare here within the farang community! At least as far as I can see on TV.

Are you sure it is not the other way round? Are you sure you are not being treated unfairly by the thais and do not feel second class? Are you sure you are not being exploited?

Words from -

a true loyal thai apologist brigade fanatic

[meemiathai]

Oh yes, one thing I would like to ask GH. What did you vote?

I voted "never".