Do You Hear The Word Farang Used By Thais In A Derogatory Way?

[jumnien]

Phil-baby,

Your thoughts about my thoughts are incongruent at best. Reading carefully, I wrote "MOST of the time", not MOST farang.

[cm-happy]

And how many of us use THAI in a negative way?

[rysbrnr]

The final straw for me in my last relationship with a Thai person was when his sister referred to my Australian mate as 'farang kee nok' because, in her opinion, he didn't spend enough money on her.

Just hearing the word 'farang' in rural Thailand is not a problem for me as farangs are still a bit of a novelty. It's when we are bad-mouthed by Thais that I get annoyed - especially when it is undeserved.

Peter

This can also confirm my previous post on Page 1 when I said that "Farang" by itself is not a derogatory or negative word. Notice you said "Farang kee nok". The only way to portray Farangs negatively is to use a negative description along with "Farang".... in this case "kee nok" (bird shit). In this case, your mate had a right to feel insulted becuase she added "kee-nok"... but if she had just said Farang then it's not bad.

[jbowman1993]

I can't believe i just wasted 3 minutes of my life reading this thread, filled with opinions of people I care absolutely nothing about.

I'm going to go do something productive, instead. Call me if we ever discuss something new or original here on TV, instead of the same old topics vomited up over and over and over and over and over and over and over....

[Goshawk]

Personally, I do not like the feeling of walking down a strange street and hearning whispers of FARANG FARANG. The intent is not rudeness but the feeling is.

If you're Kosovan, Polish, Albanian, Hungarian etc... etc... and you're walking down any street in England in 2007 and hearing 'whispers' of '**cking immigrants', the intent is almost certainly rudeness & is absolutley designed to induce a feeling of unease among the 'aliens'..

native mindset = "this is my country, who the *ell do they think they are..."

Sorry, but thats the truth.

westerners in Thailand will experience the same..

as will brits in oz, yanks in india, ruskys in mexico, munchkins in timbuktoo etc.. etc.. JUST LEARN TO LIVE WITH IT..! (don't be so bloody sensitive. remember : sticks & stones may break my bones but...........)

[Heng]

The word itself is neutral. The opinions of Thai people however are as varied as anywhere else (shock!). Take the three words:

"married a falang..."

I've heard that used in a positive, negative, and neutral way.

"Yeah, the reception was at a restaurant on the beach."

"Of course not, she has other options."

"Now if I can just find one for my other child."

"No, I doubt he'll expect you to give back the tractor."

"So yes, you can charge them a little extra on rent."

"Sorry, I still can't approve your loan."

[PeaceBlondie]

jingthing, I answered your silly little poll as "Never." Never once, in 4.55 years in Thailand, have I for sure heard the term used in a negative tone as if I or some other foreigner were despised. I have often enough been called 'farang' in a neutral or POSITIVE way, to my face, by people who respected me.

As others have mentioned, the word may have been included when preceded by "darn, filthy, cheap, sexmongering, old ....farang."

Give it up, jingthing.

[grtaylor]

And how many of us use THAI in a negative way?

Good Point!!!

[camerata]

The problem with words like farang is not so much that the word is derogatory, but that is used as a label and Westerners don't like to be labelled. If you call someone a "low-life, scumbag farang," it's the first two words that are derogatory, not the last, which is a neutral label. In the West, if you call out "Nigger!" or "Queer!" it's derogatory, but in Asia it's common to pigeonhole strangers with labels. It's also common to use those labels in front of the people concerned without it being rude. I'm sure we've all heard "Farang ngong!" at some time, which is just a way of saying, "He's confused about it because he's a foreigner who doesn't understand our customs."

The one way we can know for sure that "farang" isn't derogatory is that it isn't used alone as an insult. When a Thai wants to insult you, they won't just say "Farang!". On the two occasions in the last 20 years when a Thai tried to insult me (for no good reason) they called me the Thai equivalent of "<deleted>!".

[sgunn65]

As a member of the rose coloured spectacle brigade my thoughts after a month living here.

Bear in mind I have found my first month here quite difficult what with the beaurocracy of setting up a business and my own difficulties of not understanding most of what is going on. So I am not a flag waver for Thailand in anyway but I am here.

I live in a suburb of Bangkok where I am the only white person. I get stared at all the time. My friend is over at the moment and the staring has increased tenfold as there are two of us. But I have honestly never heard anyone use the term in a way that I thought derogatory.

Part of this is undoubtedly my very limited understanding of the language but I do think the rest is a mixture of obliviousness and the fact that I smile I shop at the market and generally behave in a respectful manner wherever I go (as I do in London).

We hear what we want to hear in life.

[thaipete]

Sorry to disappoint you but Farang comes from the Franks not French people, but is now, in Thailand a word for Caucasians and no derogatory meaning whatsoever the Franks were a people who invaded and took over much of Europe and never argued about Teddy bears names lol

[kmart]

"Farang!" - However it is uttered, or used in whatever context, is infinitely preferable to, say; "gweilo"; "gaijin" or "infidel" I always find.

Probably.

[PeaceBlondie]

Etymology, especially when we can't even agree on word origins, is not helpful or pertinent. The use of a word in context in contemporary life is all that matters. There are words that have reversed their meaning or changed drastically. We're talking about how derogatory, used alone, by Thais in Thailand, the word farang is. It isn't derogatory.

[qualtrough]

As a fluent Thai (Issan)/Laotian speaking American I can assure you that the word "Farang" is generally not used in a derogative manner. What's kind of funny is that the actual meaning of Farang (Fa-lung) really means "French person". When Thai/Lao people are speaking amongst themselves it's meaning then changes to a "Caucasian" person... and NOT in a derogative way. Thai/Lao don't call Caucasians "White people" in the Thai language, rather Farang as a blanket term for all Caucasian European/American/Austrailian etc. Many seem to think Farang means "foreigner" and it really doesn't... but when you think about it, if you're a Caucasian person in Southeast Asian country... you're probably a foreigner in most cases so sometimes Farang is used to mean that. Kohn tahng pa-thet (person from another country) is the closest thing I can think of that means "foreigner"... Farang is much simpler to use.

Farang would be just like using "Black" when speaking of a person of African decent... Black is not derogatory as opposed to the "N" word. As far as I know Thai/Lao people don't have a derogatory word for a Caucasian person. When a Thai/Lao person sees a Black American they don't call them Farang (as foreigner)... they would say "kohn dahm" for "black person".

I hope I described this well enough to clear up the confusion.

Although I disagree with you on the origin of the word farang, your post was otherwise a well-reasoned and persuasive response. Unfortunately, if you have read the other recent thread on 'farang' you would know that the OP is not going to be confused by any facts, even those presented by native speakers. In this thread he has already stated that he would not give any credibility to anyone voting 'never', thus negating the whole point of conducting any kind of survey. I imagine the OP was hoping to get enough votes to back up his position, but if that is the case it hasn't turned out that way for him yet. Unless the OP is totally delusional it seems clear that he is the victim of frequent slights featuring the word 'farang'. Given that there are loads of farangs who do not experience this problem, I think it behooves the OP to do some self-examination and see if he can discover any reasons that might explain why his experience is so different. Given the dogged persistence with which the OP persists in defending his position despite overwhelming evidence and opinion to the contrary, I don't think that will be happening.

Edited December 1, 2007 by qualtrough

[mickmac]

I got called a "bastard farang" by some thai woman,complete with Versace sun glasses, when she jumped infront of me into the taxi I hailed. The taxi driver refused to take her as he said he had seen me flagging him down, so she had to get back out of the taxi. I had said and done nothing wrong to this lady.

[Naam]

the Franks were a people who invaded and took over much of Europe

it seems we had different teachers in history

[Jingthing]

Not re-entering this as my masochism has limits, but please note the clarification:

The OP states clearly that farang is a neutral word.

The poll question was clearly about how this neutral word is actually USED.

A neutral word can be used in a negative way, for example Gypsy.

Edited December 1, 2007 by Jingthing

[qualtrough]

I got called a "bastard farang" by some thai woman,complete with Versace sun glasses, when she jumped infront of me into the taxi I hailed. The taxi driver refused to take her as he said he had seen me flagging him down, so she had to get back out of the taxi. I had said and done nothing wrong to this lady.

If that had happened to me I would have found it quite gratifying that a taxi driver was treating me fairly, and that a rich Hi So type had been put in her place. I get a warm glow just hearing that story, and I bet the driver did too. In any case, farang was being used as an adjective here so this charming anecdote doesn't provide evidence of the word itself being offensive or derogatory.

P.S. I think you are mistaken when you describe her as a 'lady'.

[qualtrough]

Not re-entering this as my masochism has limits, but please note the clarification:

The OP states clearly that farang is a neutral word.

The poll question was clearly about how this neutral word is actually USED.

A neutral word can be used in a negative way, for example Gypsy.

So then what is the point of your exercise if any neutral word can be used in a negative way? Shouldn't you have just conducted a poll asking people if Thais were nice to them or not? By your own admission the word is neutral, so why do you continue to obsess over it? When so many people disagree with you, do you ever wonder why?

[wileycoyote]

To be fair,I think you have to consider the context and speaker.

Wiley Coyote

[Jingthing]

So then what is the point of your exercise if any neutral word can be used in a negative way?

Nope. We covered this issue already in the other thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=154980

Farang is a race based word and thus, though neutral, still a LOADED word, unlike table and tree, merely because of its connection to RACE.

Otherwise, I have run out of peanuts. Good for the goose, good for the ganger, mate.

Edited December 1, 2007 by Jingthing

[asiaworld]

As a fluent Thai (Issan)/Laotian speaking American I can assure you that the word "Farang" is generally not used in a derogative manner. What's kind of funny is that the actual meaning of Farang (Fa-lung) really means "French person". When Thai/Lao people are speaking amongst themselves it's meaning then changes to a "Caucasian" person... and NOT in a derogative way. Thai/Lao don't call Caucasians "White people" in the Thai language, rather Farang as a blanket term for all Caucasian European/American/Austrailian etc. Many seem to think Farang means "foreigner" and it really doesn't... but when you think about it, if you're a Caucasian person in Southeast Asian country... you're probably a foreigner in most cases so sometimes Farang is used to mean that. Kohn tahng pa-thet (person from another country) is the closest thing I can think of that means "foreigner"... Farang is much simpler to use.

Farang would be just like using "Black" when speaking of a person of African decent... Black is not derogatory as opposed to the "N" word. As far as I know Thai/Lao people don't have a derogatory word for a Caucasian person. When a Thai/Lao person sees a Black American they don't call them Farang (as foreigner)... they would say "kohn dahm" for "black person".

I hope I described this well enough to clear up the confusion.

Well it's more like years back , when negroes in your good ole' US of A were officially discriminated against. Exactly ,than & now, when everyone was talking about their negro slaves, they DID NOT use it in derogatory manner at all >> just stating the facts i think.. us whites, them negroes... RIGHT>> same same we have here now eh.. ..

Please stop deluding yourself , i think you being fluent thai/lao speaker & Well integrated mamber of thai-lao society should know better

[asiaworld]

Oh & if you think Niger, Nigeria big countries, can't understand what the fuss is all about niggas

[TonyLeung]

lol Heng

[meemiathai]

As a fluent Thai (Issan)/Laotian speaking American I can assure you that the word "Farang" is generally not used in a derogative manner. What's kind of funny is that the actual meaning of Farang (Fa-lung) really means "French person". When Thai/Lao people are speaking amongst themselves it's meaning then changes to a "Caucasian" person... and NOT in a derogative way. Thai/Lao don't call Caucasians "White people" in the Thai language, rather Farang as a blanket term for all Caucasian European/American/Austrailian etc. Many seem to think Farang means "foreigner" and it really doesn't... but when you think about it, if you're a Caucasian person in Southeast Asian country... you're probably a foreigner in most cases so sometimes Farang is used to mean that. Kohn tahng pa-thet (person from another country) is the closest thing I can think of that means "foreigner"... Farang is much simpler to use.

Farang would be just like using "Black" when speaking of a person of African decent... Black is not derogatory as opposed to the "N" word. As far as I know Thai/Lao people don't have a derogatory word for a Caucasian person. When a Thai/Lao person sees a Black American they don't call them Farang (as foreigner)... they would say "kohn dahm" for "black person".

I hope I described this well enough to clear up the confusion.

Your post is excellent! But you got to realize you have to do better than that to teach chimps talk. (joking)

You are not Jonny Olsen, are you btw?

Here is another example of how thais use the word to insult farangs.

"nung bee tam mai puad thai geng lor?"

[meemiathai]

Not re-entering this as my masochism has limits, but please note the clarification:

The OP states clearly that farang is a neutral word.

The poll question was clearly about how this neutral word is actually USED.

A neutral word can be used in a negative way, for example Gypsy.

Dear Jingthing, I did understand and I guess you set this poll up coz I pointed it out in the other thread that the word 'farang' is seldom used in a negative manner. It is difficult to tell what the truth is coz everyone has different experience and your reality could differ from mine. If you had spent most of your time among those thais who actually hate farangs, I am sure you will hear it used in a negative way all the time. However, my experience have been different. I can say I have hardly ever heard it used in a negative way, at least not in front of me. One point for you to digest is, if they want to talk bad about you, there are plenty of words to be used, what is the point using the word farang?

With all due respect, I think it's time you go wash your face and accept that you have misinterpreted the word. It's no big deal, isn't it? To make mistakes?

[asiaworld]

So meemiathai , do you seriously consider this sh*t normal ?!? C'mon guess one of the reasons HK & S'pore become a world class city .. is because the likes of you & me can live there, as integrate members of the society & not the laughing stock of the society ! Now it is one thing , when you hear some village bumpkin calling you names & makes round eyes, but would you be happy , if your collegues,friends in HK kept calling you Gweilo ... Let me guess THEY DO NOT ! So it prety much answers any questions, about how legitimate the use of this word is .. Now just a recent experience, as 've spent last few days in Cambo with my good friend,meeting new friends & spending time in the company of well positioned & educated khmers, NOT once during my time i heard the WorD uttered ! i am inroduced to people by my nationality & spoken about with respect.. Now until the last day, we went to a carwash, & there was a village bumpkin lady , after she started talking, she spat the 'barang'>exact khmer equivalent of F. word half a dozen times, clearly hearing the conversation, she had with my friend( i kept quiet, but understood) it was pretty much like what you've posted, clearly no human respect rendered , just pure curiosity .. wow neva seen human like this before yap yap yap

[meemiathai]

So meemiathai , do you seriously consider this sh*t normal ?!? C'mon guess one of the reasons HK & S'pore become a world class city .. is because the likes of you & me can live there, as integrate members of the society & not the laughing stock of the society ! Now it is one thing , when you hear some village bumpkin calling you names & makes round eyes, but would you be happy , if your collegues,friends in HK kept calling you Gweilo ... Let me guess THEY DO NOT ! So it prety much answers any questions, about how legitimate the use of this word is .. Now just a recent experience, as 've spent last few days in Cambo with my good friend,meeting new friends & spending time in the company of well positioned & educated khmers, NOT once during my time i heard the WorD uttered ! i am inroduced to people by my nationality & spoken about with respect.. Now until the last day, we went to a carwash, & there was a village bumpkin lady , after she started talking, she spat the 'barang'>exact khmer equivalent of F. word half a dozen times, clearly hearing the conversation, she had with my friend( i kept quiet, but understood) it was pretty much like what you've posted, clearly no human respect rendered , just pure curiosity .. wow neva seen human like this before yap yap yap

Dear asiaworld,

I have been called "gwei chai" since birth, a lot of my friends called me "gwei chai" too, nowadays at the age of 38, of course I would be refered to as "gweilo" more than "gwei chai", there is not a day where I do not hear the word "gweilo", a lot of my friends and colleagues do so, I use it all the time to refer to caucasians too.

If you think merely calling you "gweilo" or "farang" means you have become the laughing stock of the society, I am telling you then it is you who is out of touch with the society.

Well to answer your days in "Cambo?", what bloody word is that???? Are you racist or what? I guess it's Cambodia you are talking about right? Are you the type that will get offended if the group you are with are not speaking the Queen's english and do not behave in the most polite manner? I bet you are. But you use the word shit? It really amazes me sometimes some of these city bumpkins.

There comes another one!

**just in case people didn't understand - "gwei chai" & "gweilo" is the equivalent word of "farang" used in HK, the first meaning a younger one the second meaning a grown up.

Edited December 1, 2007 by meemiathai

[Heng]

lol Heng

tanx TL, I'll be here all week.

Farang tickets are 50% off the normal farang price.

[t.s]

We should add a second question “How many people actually speak enough Thai to be able to tell" My guess would be less than 10%, probably less than 5%.

Thats a fair point, but the other factor is how the way it is used makes us FEEL.

Personally, I do not like the feeling of walking down a strange street and hearning whispers of FARANG FARANG. The intent is not rudeness but the feeling is.

perhaps you should take a good long look in the mirror and accept that you are different.

you should also question whether it is the thais or your demeanor that are the source of this perceived rudness.

ts