Do You Hear The Word Farang Used By Thais In A Derogatory Way?

[asiaworld]

**just in case people didn't understand - "gwei chai" & "gweilo" is the equivalent word of "farang" used in HK, the first meaning a younger one the second meaning a grown up.

Gwei chai, not sure. never heard it, i'm called leng chai often>Now that's surely Not offencive @ all . C'mon meemiathai,

i'm not overly sensitive person @ all, i do swear @ times & also use farang/mat salleh words on occasion ! But ON Occasion, you know.. I honestly think you're pulling my leg, by trying to convince me, that you're being called gweilo on the regular basis, by folks you know.. Ok maybe it's like a nickname, that sticks, than i undertand.. Like you know fat ... , bald ... etc...insert name. i can think of an equivalent 'tud dum' (dark arse), which can be used ,as jokey nickname.. but c'mon .

you'll know , when & whith whom.. Defenitely, not the mainstream use

[Chloe82]

I have the same observations all over Thailand, thank you very much.

Sorry Jingthing, i don't want to sound rude and please don't misinterpret this as being a 'personal attack' as you have done others comments.

If you, hand on heart can honestly say that you are making the same observations 'all over Thailand', then i would have to suggest that you make a re-evaluation of your personal attitute, behaviour and generaly the way that others must perceive you. Could it possibly be a manners issue? the way you dress? or perhaps you make yourself difficult to comunicate with because you are in a defensive mode as you don't feel comfortable in your environment.

This is just something that is maybe worth you time thinking about, you seem to have some real hang-ups about the country you live in and the people who live here. Most of these seem to come from mis-understandings on one level or another. If you are making these observations every where you travel then i think it's time to take a look in the mirror so to speak, and think for a while about why this is.

Good luck.

Chloe.

Edited December 1, 2007 by Chloe82

[qualtrough]

I have the same observations all over Thailand, thank you very much.

Sorry Jingthing, i don't want to sound rude and please don't misinterpret this as being a 'personal attack' as you have done others comments.

If you, hand on heart can honestly say that you are making the same observations 'all over Thailand', then i would have to suggest that you make a re-evaluation of your personal attitute, behaviour and generaly the way that others must perceive you. Could it possibly be a manners issue? the way you dress? or perhaps you make yourself difficult to comunicate with because you are in a defensive mode as you don't feel comfortable in your environment.

This is just something that is maybe worth you time thinking about, you seem to have some real hang-ups about the country you live in and the people who live here. Most of these seem to come from mis-understandings on one level or another. If you are making these observations every where you travel then i think it's time to take a look in the mirror so to speak, and think for a while about why this is.

Good luck.

Chloe.

I suggested the same thing a few posts back, but perhaps not as diplomatically as you did. It will be interesting to see how he shoots you down, if he even addresses your suggestion at all.

Edited December 1, 2007 by qualtrough

[meemiathai]

**just in case people didn't understand - "gwei chai" & "gweilo" is the equivalent word of "farang" used in HK, the first meaning a younger one the second meaning a grown up.

Gwei chai, not sure. never heard it, i'm called leng chai often>Now that's surely Not offencive @ all . C'mon meemiathai,

i'm not overly sensitive person @ all, i do swear @ times & also use farang/mat salleh words on occasion ! But ON Occasion, you know.. I honestly think you're pulling my leg, by trying to convince me, that you're being called gweilo on the regular basis, by folks you know.. Ok maybe it's like a nickname, that sticks, than i undertand.. Like you know fat ... , bald ... etc...insert name. i can think of an equivalent 'tud dum' (dark arse), which can be used ,as jokey nickname.. but c'mon .

you'll know , when & whith whom.. Defenitely, not the mainstream use

"chai" means boy or young man, "lo" means man.

I can guarrantee you the word "gweilo" nowadays is not used offensively. Some people don't use it cause the word "gwei" meaning ghost is not nice to the ears and they fear that people might get offended. And also it is not the most polite way of speaking. But most people use it just for description. You don't hear people say it to you it's because they think you don't like it. But my friends call me so coz they are aware that my understanding of the language and culture is good enough to understand that they are not trying to offend me. Cantonese is my mother tongue.

Now don't get me talking about the word "leng chai". I am sick and tired of hearing it all day and all night since birth.

Edited December 1, 2007 by meemiathai

[Jingthing]

Like I said, I will not respond to these psycho babble theories from people who don't know me. I have overheard GENERAL comments about farangs that through tone of voice or context sounded negative, did I ever say they were always or even usually about ME specifically? No. If that was the question (ADDRESSED TO ME PERSONALLY), I would say seldom. I will make a revision/confession. I voted often in this poll, but I have thought about this more, and often isn't really correct. From my experiences, sometimes is closer the reality.

Back to the poll: grow up, people are having a wide range of experiences. Deal with it.

I suppose I will even accept that there are farangs who have been here for years who have NEVER experienced ONE TIME overhearing a Thai say the word farang in a negative tone of voice or context. There are also some men who are telling the truth that they have never masturbated, but I haven't met one yet.

Another point I want to make is that if you are fluent in Thai and you make it known, you are probably LESS LIKELY to hear these kinds of things because the Thai people will think you understand the comments. I often conceal the knowledge of Thai that I do have or more often in Pattaya the locals assume most of us are tourists with no Thai knowledge, and yes, I do hear things that are not nice and polite at all, as it is clear, many others do too.

Edited December 1, 2007 by Jingthing

[meemiathai]

OK, time to relax!

farang!farang! farang rong paeng lao!

[meemiathai]

Like I said, I will not respond to these psycho babble theories from people who don't know me. I have overheard GENERAL comments about farangs that through tone of voice or context sounded negative, did I ever say they were always or even usually about ME specifically? No. If that was the question (ADDRESSED TO ME PERSONALLY), I would say seldom. I will make a revision/confession. I voted often in this poll, but I have though about this more, and often isn't really correct. From my experiences, sometimes is closer the reality.

Back to the poll: grow up, people are having a wide range of experiences. Deal with it.

There is no way no matter how you change the tone of the single word "farang" you are going to make it sound negatively or positively.

[howtoescape]

I checked into a hotel the other day and the receptionist didnt see me whilst i was stood waiting but her colleague did, and she shouted to the receptionist "farang" whilst pointing at me, whilst it wasnt said with malice, the word customer or client or anything along them lines would be the polite term to use.

Off topic but this time in Thailand more then any other (been coming for 8 years), i feel more and more resentment from Thais, maybe thats why i noticed her use the word "Farang" when another would have been better.

Edited December 1, 2007 by howtoescape

[meemiathai]

Here is a funny one.

[Jingthing]

There is no way no matter how you change the tone of the single word "farang" you are going to make it sound negatively or positively.

I understand what you are saying about Thai tones and that is a separate interesting discussion, can Thai natives express emotion through tone of voice in a tone-dependent language?

If you spit out when you say it ... how about that? If you present an ugly facial expression when you say it?

Edited December 1, 2007 by Jingthing

[meadish_sweetball]

We should add a second question “How many people actually speak enough Thai to be able to tell" My guess would be less than 10%, probably less than 5%.

Thats a fair point, but the other factor is how the way it is used makes us FEEL.

Personally, I do not like the feeling of walking down a strange street and hearning whispers of FARANG FARANG. The intent is not rudeness but the feeling is.

What is easier to change, habits of a large number of Thai people, or the way you respond to a certain situation? Why let it get to you?

Learning the language helps, a bit at least.

A lot of the ill feelings of Westerners when they hear this word is caused by the unnecessary paranoia of understanding that other people may be talking about you, but not what they say.

My experience since I learned enough Thai to start eavesdropping on conversations, is that in the overwhelming majority of cases, Thai people don't say rude things about Westerners, rather they will typically make mundane comments such as 'that Westerner doesn't take milk in his coffe' and the like.

I know the experience in tourist-heavy areas can be different. I'm not a big fan of tourist ghettos because they tend to attract a larger than average portion of the greedy and seedy - both Thais and foreigners.

[Jingthing]

I know the experience in tourist-heavy areas can be different. ... because they tend to attract a larger than average portion of the greedy and seedy - both Thais and foreigners.

I agree with this, but believe me it makes for world class people watching!

Edited December 1, 2007 by Jingthing

[meemiathai]

My God! They even make songs to insult farang!

[meemiathai]

There is no way no matter how you change the tone of the single word "farang" you are going to make it sound negatively or positively.

I understand what you are saying about Thai tones and that is a separate interesting discussion, can Thai natives express emotion through tone of voice in a tone-dependent language?

If you spit out when you say it ... how about that? If you present an ugly facial expression when you say it?

You forgot to add holding a machete.

[asiaworld]

I checked into a hotel the other day and the receptionist didnt see me whilst i was stood waiting but her colleague did, and she shouted to the receptionist "farang" whilst pointing at me, whilst it wasnt said with malice, the word customer or client or anything along them lines would be the polite term to use.

Off topic but this time in Thailand more then any other (been coming for 8 years), i feel more and more resentment from Thais, maybe thats why i noticed her use the word "Farang" when another would have been better.

Well exactly, what i meant.. Another reason, that prompts me to write,is i occasionally get mistaken for look kreung.. And i can seriously express, that the attitude WILL vary ! Hotel IS the great example.. now if you'd started speaking good thai back @ the chick, who shouted farang, you'd quickly notice, she'd feel ashamed of herself.. Pretty much, if you're asian & gal in reception would scream, hey chink is here(assuming she'd think you'd not understand)

[meadish_sweetball]

There is no way no matter how you change the tone of the single word "farang" you are going to make it sound negatively or positively.

I understand what you are saying about Thai tones and that is a separate interesting discussion, can Thai natives express emotion through tone of voice in a tone-dependent language?

If you spit out when you say it ... how about that? If you present an ugly facial expression when you say it?

Yes - tone of voice comes in to a certain extent, but never by altering the tone so that it can be confused with another one of the five phonemic tones (except in some regular exceptions such as 'emphatic reduplication' where the first repetition of the same word goes up to screech level (above regular high tone level, sometimes falsetto) and the second one is pronounced at normal or lower than normal level).

To express feeling in Thai though, it is more a question of which parts of a word and/or sentence are emphasized, and how forcefully things are said.

[Chloe82]

My friends grandfather used to call her "Farang Kee Nok" as a loving nick name when she was younger, She is half Thai and half French, we used to come to Thailand from France during our summer hollidays from school and stay with her family here.

Do you think he had any malice in his word or intentions? Of course not.

[tgeezer]

Off topic but this time in Thailand more then any other (been coming for 8 years), i feel more and more resentment from Thais, maybe thats why i noticed her use the word "Farang" when another would have been better.

You would be amazed at the little things that can upset people in the same way that some people are upset at being referred to as a farang. I don't expect people to refer to me in a positive way if I or people who look like me are constantly making gaffs of the sort which inflames them. Like many others on this forum I choose to live where foreigners are few so that I can be judged for what I am, which is not Thai and never can be. I voted 'seldom'.

[GuestHouse]

During a cross cultural session with members of our staff that had been scheduled in response to a blantent case of racism, the subject of 'Respectful and Disrespectful Langauge' came up.

The term 'Farang' was one that expatriates (and EuroThais) stated they objected to at which point we had to suffer a tyrade from a Thai member of staff complaining 'This is Thailand you don't tell Thai people how to speak.... if we want to use 'Farang' etc etc'.

The vitriol he poured out was evidence enough of why many expats and all the EuroThais objected the term and there after I never heard the term openly used in the office again.

----

As a Thai speaker it is my experience that the use of the word and the context in which it is used is frequently derogatory.

Something non Thai speakers will almost always miss.

[asiaworld]

During a cross cultural session with members of our staff that had been scheduled in response to a blantent case of racism, the subject of 'Respectful and Disrespectful Langauge' came up.

The term 'Farang' was one that expatriates (and EuroThais) stated they objected to at which point we had to suffer a tyrade from a Thai member of staff complaining 'This is Thailand you don't tell Thai people how to speak.... if we want to use 'Farang' etc etc'.

The vitriol he poured out was evidence enough of why many expats and all the EuroThais objected the term and there after I never heard the term openly used in the office again.

----

As a Thai speaker it is my experience that the use of the word and the context in which it is used is frequently derogatory.

Something non Thai speakers will almost always miss.

spot on even if discrmination is institutionalised, like it was in SA during apartheid,or earlier in history, still doesn't makes it right !

[Jingthing]

I am very pleased that I can really back off now. Great red meat posts.

Have at it boys and girls!

I didn't start this as a personal obsession or vendetta. I was just interested in hearing about other people's experiences and opinions. If I wanted a therapist, I would go to a professional one.

Edited December 1, 2007 by Jingthing

[howtoescape]

You would be amazed at the little things that can upset people in the same way that some people are upset at being referred to as a farang.

In my culture it is polite to use the word customer in such a situation, not a term to identify a specific race, as these people make money from people from different cultures they should know what is polite.

I find in endearing when small Thai kids point and say farang, so it isnt the word its the timing and context it should be used.

I don't expect people to refer to me in a positive way if I or people who look like me are constantly making gaffs of the sort which inflames them.

I expect people to refer to me in a polite way when i have just met them, its called basic human decency.

From what you have written it would seem you think it ok for a Thai to be rude to all us Farangs should one white man have upset them in the past.

Edited December 1, 2007 by howtoescape

[meadish_sweetball]

During a cross cultural session with members of our staff that had been scheduled in response to a blantent case of racism, the subject of 'Respectful and Disrespectful Langauge' came up.

The term 'Farang' was one that expatriates (and EuroThais) stated they objected to at which point we had to suffer a tyrade from a Thai member of staff complaining 'This is Thailand you don't tell Thai people how to speak.... if we want to use 'Farang' etc etc'.

The vitriol he poured out was evidence enough of why many expats and all the EuroThais objected the term and there after I never heard the term openly used in the office again.

----

As a Thai speaker it is my experience that the use of the word and the context in which it is used is frequently derogatory.

Something non Thai speakers will almost always miss.

Is there any chance you could give some concrete examples of the derogatory use of the word you have experienced?

[meadish_sweetball]

You would be amazed at the little things that can upset people in the same way that some people are upset at being referred to as a farang.

In my culture it is polite to use the word customer in such a situation, not a term to identify a specific race, as these people make money from people from different cultures they should know what is polite.

I find in endearing when small Thai kids point and say farang, so it isnt the word its the timing and context it should be used.

Fully agree that a receptionist of a hotel should know better - I would have had a word with her and the manager in that situation.

[meemiathai]

I checked into a hotel the other day and the receptionist didnt see me whilst i was stood waiting but her colleague did, and she shouted to the receptionist "farang" whilst pointing at me, whilst it wasnt said with malice, the word customer or client or anything along them lines would be the polite term to use.

Off topic but this time in Thailand more then any other (been coming for 8 years), i feel more and more resentment from Thais, maybe thats why i noticed her use the word "Farang" when another would have been better.

Well exactly, what i meant.. Another reason, that prompts me to write,is i occasionally get mistaken for look kreung.. And i can seriously express, that the attitude WILL vary ! Hotel IS the great example.. now if you'd started speaking good thai back @ the chick, who shouted farang, you'd quickly notice, she'd feel ashamed of herself.. Pretty much, if you're asian & gal in reception would scream, hey chink is here(assuming she'd think you'd not understand)

Well all these we are talking about here, is about understanding the INTENTIONS of others while trying to spread their message. The question is should we be offended so easily? Just because others are not using the most polite words which was what you expected, what you had in mind, to address you? Is this the world we want? Is this the world we want where we try our best to look for trouble, where we try our best to make others feel as uncomfortable as possible? Do we not want a more relaxed world, a more relaxed atmosphere so we don't have to be serious all the bloody time?

What I see is the lack of capability to understand the intention of others from some forum members which at the same time is going to create unnecessary nuisances everywhere they go be it thailand or anywhere around the world.

I would say the receptionist said it due to her reflex action. So if someone is to blame a human being for having reflex actions, my opinion of this person is he has no idea just what this world is all about. For me, my reaction would be a smile followed by "khon thai!" and then "pood len".

Well I would say if it was a King of other countries visiting the Royal Family here in Thailand, and the receptionist had pointed at him and said farang, it would have been inappropriate. Anyway I do not condone the existing of human beings being classed phenomenon.

Who needs a world that is difficult to live in? I don't!

Keep it up you guys, try your best to find faults in others, we need more wars. Otherwise what is the point of inventing gun powder?

Edited December 1, 2007 by meemiathai

[meemiathai]

During a cross cultural session with members of our staff that had been scheduled in response to a blantent case of racism, the subject of 'Respectful and Disrespectful Langauge' came up.

The term 'Farang' was one that expatriates (and EuroThais) stated they objected to at which point we had to suffer a tyrade from a Thai member of staff complaining 'This is Thailand you don't tell Thai people how to speak.... if we want to use 'Farang' etc etc'.

The vitriol he poured out was evidence enough of why many expats and all the EuroThais objected the term and there after I never heard the term openly used in the office again.

----

As a Thai speaker it is my experience that the use of the word and the context in which it is used is frequently derogatory.

Something non Thai speakers will almost always miss.

I have always thought that you were an expert to everything thai related or actually expert of matters of the world.

This post of yours has just given me a brief impression of how much you understand about thai culture.

[mr_hippo]

jingthing - I think you need a hobby to take your mind off this farang thing. Try watching traffic lights change colour - you'll enjoy that. Do not start with the ones that have countdown numbers - they are only for us advanced 'traffic lighters'!

[meemiathai]

I am a thai speaker too.

[meemiathai]

During a cross cultural session with members of our staff that had been scheduled in response to a blantent case of racism, the subject of 'Respectful and Disrespectful Langauge' came up.

The term 'Farang' was one that expatriates (and EuroThais) stated they objected to at which point we had to suffer a tyrade from a Thai member of staff complaining 'This is Thailand you don't tell Thai people how to speak.... if we want to use 'Farang' etc etc'.

The vitriol he poured out was evidence enough of why many expats and all the EuroThais objected the term and there after I never heard the term openly used in the office again.

----

As a Thai speaker it is my experience that the use of the word and the context in which it is used is frequently derogatory.

Something non Thai speakers will almost always miss.

By the way, what was the "vitriol" that was poured out?

[howtoescape]

Meemiathai

If you read my original post i did say it was said without malice and that i may have only been aware she actually said it as in my opinion Thais in tourist areas are more resentful and rude towards tourists now then they were when i first started coming here.

The only reasoned i mentioned it some time later is because someone started a forum discussion on whether the term farang is used in a derogatory way.

If you went to a relatively nice restaurant, when the waitress handed out the menus, and she passed them to the others at the table and used the word sir or madam when doing so if they were of Asian appearance, then when she handed you the menu said the word farang i am sure you would pick up on it.