Uk Government Immigration Review.

[Prakanong]

Whilst the theory will clearly resonate with a significant number of Native British people, in effect it is a typical "New Labour" spin, that does not really address any of the significant immigration problems. As highlighted the majority of immigration at present is from Eastern European countries, and these people will more than liely be exempted. What Labour does with one hand, it takes with the other. A complete farce, but as Scouse pointed out, one that will probably load some cronies palms with gold, through the language contracts.

And what would the other parties have done

I do think they made a mistake in not having restrictions on the first EU expansion into eastern Europe like all others members except us, Ireland and Sweden did.

There are restrictions on the new ones are there not?

What are these people entitled to from the govt - I thought they were excluded from the benefits system and had to work?

I do know they are forcing wages down in some industries and the only ones profiting from this are the owners

There is also the matter of 17,000 spuses from Pakistan et all that this might be aimed at?

[The Opinion]

My initial instinct is that such a move would discriminate against those nationalities which are either not indigenous speakers of English or do not have a colonial background. For example English is far more engrained and widely spoken in Malaysia than it is Thailand, a consequence of which is that an average Joe Malaysian is far more likely to speak passable English than a Thai.

It should be a level playing field for all, yet it won't be because of various historical factors.

Scouse.

This is a requirement for the EU, not only for the UK. Those people intend to settle in Germany - for example - need to proof that they are able to communicate in German. And so are regulations for other countries, i.e. France, Denmark, The Netherlands, etc. It has nothing to do with discrimination or colonial background. European countries had huge problems in the past integrating migrants into their societies, especially in France this was a big issue last year. I guess this regulation has been setup in hope, that when migrants speek a language of the country they intend to stay in, the problem of being not integrated properly, will be solved in the long run. Language is a very important factor.

In fact, I believe, that the responsibility of being integrated into a society needs to be served by both sides. It is not only the responsibility of the respective country and its government to integrate people but also the respective person that intends to stay in one of the European countries need to integrate itself.

[Bagwan]

Announcing the measures yesterday, Liam Byrne, the Immigration Minister, said: “We ignore concerns about the impact of immigration at our peril.”

Right on, Paddy. :D

What is the situation if you are married to a deaf mute?

I ask since my wife is so afflicted. Is deaf when I tell her to stay within the domestic budget, and mute when I ask why she hasn't.

[Richard W]

In fact, I believe, that the responsibility of being integrated into a society needs to be served by both sides. It is not only the responsibility of the respective country and its government to integrate people but also the respective person that intends to stay in one of the European countries need to integrate itself.

But most Thai spouses get integrated by virtue of marrying a native of many generations standing.

[capt_canada42]

this exactly same stupid law is in power in germany now and thai spouses,also other nationalities,but there is a few exceptions have to sit a test now and go two a 2-month or longer course in thailand before getting the visa

the results are more then 50% Fail,which is no surprise,different alphabet etc

there is a few exceptions i.e. university graduates dont need the test as they integrate easier???

bc

They should make it so falangs who don't speak Thai won't be allowed to stay here, that would sure get rid of most of us !

[makescents]

Today I was stood at a Subway in Manchester while a girl ordered a sandwich and a coffee, she gave in a 99p voucher which discounted the sandwich but not the drink. She also gave in a pound and waited for her one pence change, despite the fact that the total was £2.39.

This gal clearly wasn't a tourist and couldn't understand why the cashier wasn't giving her the drink.

As long as they are not asking for an A Level standard or GCSE even, having some basic communication skills won't hurt anyone.

Maybe I'm just saying this because when the time comes this probably won't affect me, a BA in English should write off doing this test.

This is nothing new, the other EU countries have done, Britain is just behind as per usual on putting these regulations into effect.

MC

[Andrew Hicks]

The UK governement has today unveiled it's new Australian-style points system for those wishing to migrate to the UK for work purposes. They have also announced a consultation process to discuss the merits of requiring spouses who wish to settle in the UK to be able to speak English before even travelling to the UK.

A separate consultation, also published today seeks views on the introduction of an English language test before entry for people applying for a spouse visa to help to encourage successful integration.

You can bet your bottom dollar that if the government is consulting on this, the likelihood is it will come to pass. If so, expect some crony of the government to be given the contract to run recognised English language courses abroad, and also expect a marked downturn in the number of Thai spouse settlement visa applications.

Scouse.

A requirement for an English language test BEFORE arrival in UK would be an outrage. It surely would face a human rights challenge at is surely in breach of the right to family life which is in the Convention.

Language is essential to integration but the accent should be on providing free training after arrival. Language training used to be free but this was recently withdrawn, as I understand it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Britain tightens immigration requirements

LONDON: -- The British government Wednesday outlined details of a points-based system to "manage" immigration from outside the European Union (EU) under which unskilled workers would have little chance of entering Britain and spouses would have to pass an English language test.

Home Secretary Jacqui Smith said the proposals, devised along the lines of the Australian immigration system, were aimed at providing a "robust machinery" to ensure that only those migrants "meeting the needs of the UK will be allowed to enter and work."

Applicants would earn points for their skills and the "potential" they show for economic success.

The government would also in future "block the privilege of citizenship" to applicants with a criminal record and offer greater protection for people being pressurized into forced marriages.

Under the proposals, expected to come into force next year, the minimum age at which people can come to Britain for marriage will be raised from 18 to 21.

The five-tier immigration system is aimed at attracting highly trained and skilled workers, according to Britain's economic needs, while low-skills "will only be used if specific shortages are identified that cannot be filled from the UK or European labour force."

Last year, about 12,000 unskilled migrants from non-EU countries in Africa, America and Asia came to work in Britain.

However, the opposition Conservative Party, and anti-migration pressure groups, have said the new system will have little real effect as the vast majority of migrants coming to Britain were arrivals from new east European members of the EU.

The Conservatives, who have demanded an Australian-style upper annual limit on immigration, also maintain that the new system would not work without putting a cap on numbers.

--DPA 2007-12-05

Full Home Office press release.

[VitalGirl]

The UK governement has today unveiled it's new Australian-style points system for those wishing to migrate to the UK for work purposes. They have also announced a consultation process to discuss the merits of requiring spouses who wish to settle in the UK to be able to speak English before even travelling to the UK.

A separate consultation, also published today seeks views on the introduction of an English language test before entry for people applying for a spouse visa to help to encourage successful integration.

You can bet your bottom dollar that if the government is consulting on this, the likelihood is it will come to pass. If so, expect some crony of the government to be given the contract to run recognised English language courses abroad, and also expect a marked downturn in the number of Thai spouse settlement visa applications.

Scouse.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Britain tightens immigration requirements

LONDON: -- The British government Wednesday outlined details of a points-based system to "manage" immigration from outside the European Union (EU) under which unskilled workers would have little chance of entering Britain and spouses would have to pass an English language test.

Home Secretary Jacqui Smith said the proposals, devised along the lines of the Australian immigration system, were aimed at providing a "robust machinery" to ensure that only those migrants "meeting the needs of the UK will be allowed to enter and work."

Applicants would earn points for their skills and the "potential" they show for economic success.

The government would also in future "block the privilege of citizenship" to applicants with a criminal record and offer greater protection for people being pressurized into forced marriages.

Under the proposals, expected to come into force next year, the minimum age at which people can come to Britain for marriage will be raised from 18 to 21.

The five-tier immigration system is aimed at attracting highly trained and skilled workers, according to Britain's economic needs, while low-skills "will only be used if specific shortages are identified that cannot be filled from the UK or European labour force."

Last year, about 12,000 unskilled migrants from non-EU countries in Africa, America and Asia came to work in Britain.

However, the opposition Conservative Party, and anti-migration pressure groups, have said the new system will have little real effect as the vast majority of migrants coming to Britain were arrivals from new east European members of the EU.

The Conservatives, who have demanded an Australian-style upper annual limit on immigration, also maintain that the new system would not work without putting a cap on numbers.

--DPA 2007-12-05

Full Home Office press release.

The points test is the killer, not the English abilty or otherwise! Trust me - 25+ years living in Oz I have known many other migrants (I'm Dutch born myself) whose spouses, parents etc all failed the points test - nothing to do with speaking English and everything to do with only allowing "desirable" applicants. Sort of "well, we found our bit of paradise so we better pull up the drawbridge now before it gets too crowded here...". The discrimination in Oz is appalling and yes, ingrained in the system there. Sad to hear UK following their (and America's) lead. And thank the Buddha for the ever tolerant Thais.

[mrtoad]

Whilst the theory will clearly resonate with a significant number of Native British people, in effect it is a typical "New Labour" spin, that does not really address any of the significant immigration problems. As highlighted the majority of immigration at present is from Eastern European countries, and these people will more than liely be exempted. What Labour does with one hand, it takes with the other. A complete farce, but as Scouse pointed out, one that will probably load some cronies palms with gold, through the language contracts.

And what would the other parties have done

I do think they made a mistake in not having restrictions on the first EU expansion into eastern Europe like all others members except us, Ireland and Sweden did.

There are restrictions on the new ones are there not?

What are these people entitled to from the govt - I thought they were excluded from the benefits system and had to work?

I do know they are forcing wages down in some industries and the only ones profiting from this are the owners

There is also the matter of 17,000 spuses from Pakistan et all that this might be aimed at?

To be honest PK, I don't have a problem with the inroduction of a points scheme in theory, I just see this as another half baked, ambigious plan as per usual with the British government. Whilst it will hopefully, sift out some of the people who have been landing on the shores with little intention of integrating or accepting British culture or laws, the huge influx of Eastern Europeans is really the main problem at present.

In my own area (West Country), there are now huge numbers of Baltic state workers and Eastern Europeans, they refuse to assimilate, and a significant number of them end up at the Magistrates court (driving offences or petty crime) or in the Local Psych hospitals (when their money runs out, and they want to be repatriated). They certainly are not the most desireable of immigrants. The references to court and hospital are realted to my experience of working in a Psych hospital and my father being a magistrate.

I also feel that much of this is due to the impending General Election in the UK, so Labour now have to start looking tough on immigration as it is going to be one of the big issues with the electorate this time.

Edited December 7, 2007 by mrtoad

[ukjackthai]

A little too late is what comes to mind.

Ive seen for myself - most foriegners in england are grouped into like a little community, Soho a good example.

[MILT]

The UK governement has today unveiled it's new Australian-style points system for those wishing to migrate to the UK for work purposes. They have also announced a consultation process to discuss the merits of requiring spouses who wish to settle in the UK to be able to speak English before even travelling to the UK.

A separate consultation, also published today seeks views on the introduction of an English language test before entry for people applying for a spouse visa to help to encourage successful integration.

You can bet your bottom dollar that if the government is consulting on this, the likelihood is it will come to pass. If so, expect some crony of the government to be given the contract to run recognised English language courses abroad, and also expect a marked downturn in the number of Thai spouse settlement visa applications.

Full Home Office press release.

Scouse.

I think being able to speak/understand english isnt an unreasonable rquirement - after all seems a bit odd that someone would marry a thai and not be able to have any meaningfull conversation with them.

Good thing Thailand doesn't require people living here from another country to speak Thai or we would all be back at home where we obviously don't want to be...Milt

[manjara]

Seems to me that the thing that concerns people the most (assuming that the members of TV are not a bunch of xenophobic BNP members), is that certain groups are forming 'ghettos' where there is no integration into the UK culture.

There has always been, and will always be, migration of people. It is necessary to keep a country vibrant and expanding. How would you ever get a plumber in the UK if it wasn't for the Poles? (and how much would it cost!)

The test should not be on the person arriving in the UK, they have not had the opportunity to learn the language (do they expect to create English schools in every town in the world that are capable of teaching to GCSE standard?

We should have a stricter test (but not necessarily academic) on the cultural integration of the British citizen that wishes to marry the foreign spouse and bring them to the UK.

Some suggestions:

• Name one of the top 5 Premiership teams
  
• Ability to down 8 pints of lager before 11 o'clock
  
• Name this beige plaid-type material
  
• Play a clip of a Geordie criticising Tony Blair's government and get them to explain what it was about in English.
  
• What is an 'Annus horribilis' and why?
  
• Which flavour of crisps is better, Salt&Vinegar or Worcester Sauce?
  
• What colours does Custard come in?
  

At least one of the couple should have some knowledge of the country they want to live in (or be skilled in some trade)

Edited December 7, 2007 by manjara

[Darkling]

Just Wondering, does this mean that the thai translaters at the British embassy will no longer be required now.

Poor souls, after all these years of loyalty to Her majesty's gov, they will be surplus to requirements. Will the ECO's

be ok knowing that they will have to speak directly to the applicants now. Thats who I feel sorry for,the poor old ECO, who no longer will have any back up. I was going to say more but the bile in my stomach rises when i even think about the British Embassy, so thats all.

[ukjackthai]

Seems to me that the thing that concerns people the most (assuming that the members of TV are not a bunch of xenophobic BNP members), is that certain groups are forming 'ghettos' where there is no integration into the UK culture.

Exactly my point. Imo some are trying to turn england into their own country.. Its expanding!!

[MILT]

Imagine if British men had to learn Thai before moving to Thailand, there wouldnt be any here!

My thoughts exactly and for Americans as well.

[Mystery]

I find the whole system very frustrating as you can't build it to look at people's situations individually! I'm a british girl who's lived and worked in Thailand nearly four years with Thai boyfriend over the last three. I speak very good Thai and boyf speaks quite good english, although I wouldn't know how to grade it. We communicate with English and Thai together and most people don't understand us! I found learning Thai really easy as I was here in the country and was surrounded by it, had I tried to learn in England it would've been nearly impossible without tutoring, and I learnt my Thai without a single lesson! The current set up of applying for settlement visa once married and then allowing the spouse to settle in England for two years prior to having to sit the Life of Britain test, which surely requires a certain level of English, is fine and makes sense, the spouse has had the time to learn English a lot quicker by actually being in the country. I wonder what level of English this will turn out to be that they have to meet. I just find the system so utterly dissappointing for genuine cases of people who simply fall in love and want to take their husbands home to live with them in England because Thailand makes it so hard to live here for foreigners unless you're blessed with unlimited funds and patience with visa runs! Naiive as it may sound, I'm very dissapointed that this is so difficult! A disallusioned world citizen!

[dkstoney]

I think the following articles explain the situation a little better than this forum does as the policy is not specifically directed at men who marry foreign women and bring them home.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...1/nhomes121.xml

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...in_page_id=1770

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/homeaffairs...1855762,00.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5273356.stm

I don't think, as some posters suggest, the government wishes to limit your right to choose a spouse. It's more to bring under control the rampant immigration and social benefits payouts that are going to many Eastern European immigrants on top of the old Asian standbys that a lot of Brits in Thailand fume about. I found the Daily Mail article the most informative.

[bernie66]

I think being able to speak/understand english isnt an unreasonable rquirement - after all seems a bit odd that someone would marry a thai and not be able to have any meaningfull conversation with them.

That's right and I think they have been carefully thought before announcing. It's reasonable. I wouldn't marry to someone I can't or able to have convo with.

“Absolute power corrupts Absolutely”

I am on my second marriage to a woman that barely speaks my language. I fell in love with them while using dictionary's to communicate. Neither spoke a lick of English the day we met and I could care less. I don’t need a government to tell me who I can and cannot fall in love with by their education level. If I am riding an elephant through the jungle in Cambodia and fall in love with a 18 year old girl in a straw hut with 2 shoes that don’t match that’s my own dam business. If you try to rationalize any part of this your wrong. It’s like this brothers. They are saying that everyone who marries outside of their government is guilty of some kind of subversion until he can prove his own innocents. If we were free we would be innocent until proven guilty at their expense. It is everyone who benefits from a democratic society to stand up for the rights of others whether they are effected or not. “you become what you despise” Lets see guys, who in the world follows a doctrine of not allowing their people to marry outside their religion or cast? Who goes through such great links to have absolute power over their people? What is the difference between making them pass a language literacy test or making them pass a test on the practice of a religion.

[astral]

For example English is far more engrained and widely spoken in Malaysia than it is Thailand, a consequence of which is that an average Joe Malaysian is far more likely to speak passable English than a Thai.

That would have been true 15 years ago, but the Malaysian government's policy to promote the local

language has wiped out the advantage.

They are ruing the day and trying to improve English skills across the board.

Speaking Thai IS a requirement if you want PR in Thailand!!

What language the husband and wife speak in the house or bed is irrelevant.

[samran]

I think the following articles explain the situation a little better than this forum does as the policy is not specifically directed at men who marry foreign women and bring them home.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...1/nhomes121.xml

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...in_page_id=1770

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/homeaffairs...1855762,00.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5273356.stm

I don't think, as some posters suggest, the government wishes to limit your right to choose a spouse. It's more to bring under control the rampant immigration and social benefits payouts that are going to many Eastern European immigrants on top of the old Asian standbys that a lot of Brits in Thailand fume about. I found the Daily Mail article the most informative.

not sure about the daily mail article to be perfectly honest. It only give the 'cost' side of the equation. You do the sums (albeit on the back of an envelope) and it is hardly the fact that the sky is falling in. For instance, lets look at:

- tax receipts to the HM treasury from the other 5/6 people who are working and are not claiming anything. Likely to be quite substantial. Lets see GBP 125 million per year paid out too 111,000 Eastern Europeans. Then the other 555,000 eastern europeans who aren't claimng anything, and simply paying taxes. So, each of those 555,000 workers would be paying on average 250 quid/year to pay for the benefits of their former communist brothers in arms.

No doubt that the average income tax bill for these guys would be in a minimum of say 4000-5000 pounds (assuming a salary of min. GBP25K per year). So it is only a tiny fraction of going to benefits, the rest, going straight to the UK government to provide services for the other 60million on British who presumably rely on them in some form.

4000 quid from 550,000 Eastern EU migrants is GBP 2.2 Billion!!! Nice little earner I say.

- Unemployment rate: Just because you are claiming say, child benefit, doesn't imply that you are unemployed. What for instance is the unemployment rate of all eastern EU'ers? Looking at the table, there are 2,534 people claiming unemployment. Out of 660K migrants, that is less than 0.3% unemployment. Pretty good I say.

- Positive inflationary effect: the low rate on unemployment suggest an EXTREMELY tight labour market. If migrants weren't allowed in, no doubt wages and costs would sky rocket, pushing inflation into dangerous territory.

- (ed) The 'Thai visa if it wasn't for me the country would fall in a heap effect': given that people like using it to justify their exisitence in Thailand, obviously the consumption and VAT payments of these migrants is going to have some sort of positive benefit on the economy.

So the simple stupid Samran conclusion is that migrants are good for the economy. The rules are pandering to the 'woe is me - thems migrants aren't mixing it with me down the pub coza they don't speaka de english' crowd, rather than to the economic well being of the UK.

[Atli]

How can people expect to live and/or work in England if they cannot read / write / speak the language?

... maybe as Thai teachers?

[dkstoney]

Sure, the thing they don't more than mention are their projections on birth rates, population skyrocketing on the island nation, future job availability, and simply the overall cost of taking care of an ever-growing public and its impact on social services. Their concern isn't so much what they're spending now, but the relatively short time in which the latest increases in expenditures occurred and where they may be headed at that same rate of growth. I think it's a word of caution rather than a hate campaign. That aside, my initial point is that they're not singling out men who marry women from Thailand, although those individuals may be affected in the long run.

[samran]

Sure, the thing they don't more than mention are their projections on birth rates, population skyrocketing on the island nation, future job availability, and simply the overall cost of taking care of an ever-growing public and its impact on social services. Their concern isn't so much what they're spending now, but the relatively short time in which the latest increases in expenditures occurred and where they may be headed at that same rate of growth. I think it's a word of caution rather than a hate campaign. That aside, my initial point is that they're not singling out men who marry women from Thailand, although those individuals may be affected in the long run.

Although it is counter intuative, the fact of the matter is that pensions and social services would be worse off than they are now without migration and an influx of young people. With baby boomers living longer, they are sucking more and more money out of government revenues. Simply to keep up with that, you need more and more young people in the country, working and paying taxes, just so you can stay stand on that front.

Although it would be nice, your pension isn't paid from the money you paid in NI over the years, as that was already spent. It is coming from the young lads and lasses working and paying taxes. Gawd knows who is going to pay their pensions!!

[ConfusedFarang]

All the comments about "how can 2 people (thai and english) be married without being able to have a conversation". How about if the england person learns thai? And if people who only speak english can get by and hold business in non english speaking countries, thais could do the same as well.

Edited December 7, 2007 by ConfusedFarang

[coldcrush]

The UK governement has today unveiled it's new Australian-style points system for those wishing to migrate to the UK for work purposes. They have also announced a consultation process to discuss the merits of requiring spouses who wish to settle in the UK to be able to speak English before even travelling to the UK.

A separate consultation, also published today seeks views on the introduction of an English language test before entry for people applying for a spouse visa to help to encourage successful integration.

You can bet your bottom dollar that if the government is consulting on this, the likelihood is it will come to pass. If so, expect some crony of the government to be given the contract to run recognised English language courses abroad, and also expect a marked downturn in the number of Thai spouse settlement visa applications.

Full Home Office press release.

Scouse.

I think being able to speak/understand english isnt an unreasonable rquirement - after all seems a bit odd that someone would marry a thai and not be able to have any meaningfull conversation with them.

I dont know, I speak Thai as well.

[archthai]

I guess it will never end . I am from thre US and the my friends in the UK say I dont speak English , Does that mean i cant live in the UK. American is kind of English ? LOL

And they are right, you, we speak American, I've been ther some time ago and couldn't understand half of them as well! Nice place though.( example: getting "pissed" Engand= having a good time at the pub. American= having a good time at the bar with their fists.

[peter48]

There was an inevitability about tighter immigration controls partly accelerated by the Right wing Tabloids & the opposition Tory Party who want to get harder. New Labour had to respond.

There has been a move in the UK to try to stem the growing social problems in the inner cities be it violent teenage crime, problem schools with two many issues including kids with little English, a Health service in urban areas with too many many demands, etc., overconcentration of some ethnic groups in ghettoes; unskilled Brits with no jobs...

of course all of has little to do with Thais or Chinese etc., who often settle in more lower middle class areas etc., The Brits feel under seige especially from groups like the Poles and other EC arrivals who have certain rights others do not have.

What's changed is its no longer taboo to say No to immigration; the sociological arguments are more convincing and the drawbridge is being raised Get in quick before the Tories win the next election and make it even harder!

[hansnl]

Not so very long ago I posted an answer about the EU-talks about strengthening the immigration rules for ALL the EU-member states. I also said that I heard that the basis for the new rules would be some crossing between the Danish/Dutch/Spanish rules. Someone thought this was bar stool talk.

Well, the Dutch ask for an knowledge about the language (rather heavy), general knowledge about The Netherlands (not too heavy), AND the potential candidate has to do an exam in the Embassy.

No good results, no visa, no permission to stay, period!

Bar talk?

And, for anyone thinking about bringing his girlfriend/fiancee/wife into the EU in the near future.

Maybe better do it now!

When the new rules are implemented under EU-directive, NO EU-country will have the need for a Parliamentary review.

One day there are the old rules, and all of sudden, something changed, or everything.

And NO grandfathering!

And bringing in your female half, as they say, will be sheer frustration, for you and your loved one.

Source:

EU-Parliamentary website

NL-Parliamentary website

Friends!

(Guess what the answer of the Thai authorities will be?)

[gjones]

Maybe in the UK they should forget about English, Welsh or Celtic as a language and put everything in Polish; the local Councils have

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7131768.stm

Councils told to translate less

Some street signs in central London have been translated into Polish

Councils should be able to translate fewer documents and signs into foreign languages in future, according to new government guidelines.

Having materials converted into other tongues discourages some people in the UK from learning English, Communities Secretary Hazel Blears is due to say.

And "relatively obscure" information is translated too often, she will add.

Last year, a BBC investigation suggested local authorities could be spending £100m annually on the process.

The BBC's Home Editor, Mark Easton, said he had been told by the Department of Health 12 months ago that an "obligation to translate is clearly laid out in the Race Relations Act".

But now the Department of Communities has insisted that "there is no legal reason for all materials to be translated", our correspondent said.

English an 'asset'

The department drew attention to anecdotal examples of "unnecessary or bizarre types of translation" of which it was aware.

We need a fundamental rebalancing of our approach, putting a greater focus on learning English

Hazel Blears, Communities Secretary

These included leaflets being rewritten in languages which were not spoken locally and annual reports being translated into more than 10 languages when demand for the documents in English was very low anyway.

Ms Blears is to use a speech on Friday to call for local authorities and other organisations to reconsider their policies on the matter.

"Whilst there may be some cases where translation is appropriate, public bodies should have common-sense strategies in place," she is expected to say.

"Speaking English is the greatest asset you can possess to get a better job, get involved in your community, and to get on and do well for yourself and your family.

"Translation can never be a substitute for learning English, and we need a fundamental rebalancing of our approach, putting a greater focus on learning English."

[wilko]

For example English is far more engrained and widely spoken in Malaysia than it is Thailand, a consequence of which is that an average Joe Malaysian is far more likely to speak passable English than a Thai.

That would have been true 15 years ago, but the Malaysian government's policy to promote the local

language has wiped out the advantage.

They are ruing the day and trying to improve English skills across the board.

Speaking Thai IS a requirement if you want PR in Thailand!!

What language the husband and wife speak in the house or bed is irrelevant.

Rubbish - standards of English in Malaysia are far higher than in Thailand.

Thailand lags behind almost every S.E. Asian Country

This is a thread that is fast gathering a lot of crap...a load of assertions that are based on nothing more than racial prejudice