meadish_sweetball Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Being a citizen of a country should mean that you owe allegiance to that country. How can you swear allegiance to one country, while maintaining your allegiance to another country ? Take for example people from Iran that gain US citizenship, or Chinese that are granted Canadian citizenship. If they still retain their original citizenship (and allegiance), and those countries have a dispute, whose side will they take ?If an Aussie marries a Thai (and gains Thai citizenship), and Australia and Thailand ended up at war, who would the Aussie be loyal to ? The land of his birth, or his adopted country ? Would his adopted country ever trust him, knowing he still owed allegiance to his home country ? Would his home country ever trust him, knowing he had sworn allegiance to another country ? Plenty of countries have no 'swearing of allegiance' involved in becoming a citizen, including Sweden, where it is enough to fulfill the defined requirements of any eligible group (having lived X years continuously, etc.), submit your application and pay your application fee. If you meet the criteria, bingo, here's your passport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david96 Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 The cynic in me tells me that this has been designed as nothing more than a confidence boosting measure.. a populist policy for the farang population that will never see the light of day...But I hope it will. Foreigners do not have the right to vote so it is pointless targeting policies at them. Only citizens can vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david96 Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 and yes, i will not give up my citizenship in my home country but i would love to have a PR (permanent resident) status in thailand to be with my family. You can now providing you meet the criteria for PR status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiksilva Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 (edited) err yeah I know that. Perhaps my choice of words was poor and I should have not said 'policy', but what I meant is that the creation of this draft amendment has been done with much the same reasoning as the creation of populist policies for the Thais. I feel this has been put forward to try to restore foreign confidence which has taken quite a hit this year. Edited December 17, 2007 by quiksilva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thai_narak Posted December 17, 2007 Author Share Posted December 17, 2007 and yes, i will not give up my citizenship in my home country but i would love to have a PR (permanent resident) status in thailand to be with my family. You can now providing you meet the criteria for PR status. catch 22, everybody knows that the current requirements are not so easy to meet. i'm married with 2 children but it does not qualify me for PR since i do not work in thailand. then you can say why don't you work in thailand? i can work locally in thailand but i would have to earn less and may not be able to support my family sufficiently like now. two kids in international school, it's not possible to survive with the local salary. so why the bloody work permit is required for this bloody PR? i just don't know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhys Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Pardon... but what exactly does Permanent Resident status mean? I realize in order to obtain this , one has to live in the Kingdom for 5 years continously. Does this mean you don't have to sign in every ninety days? Cheers.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thai_narak Posted December 17, 2007 Author Share Posted December 17, 2007 (edited) Pardon... but what exactly does Permanent Resident status mean? I realize in order to obtain this , one has to live in the Kingdom for 5 years continously. Does this mean you don't have to sign in every ninety days?Cheers.. you still have to... staying for 5 yrs (i think only 3 yrs tho) just mean that you have continous non-imm visa within those years, you have paid taxes, etc. edit:typo Edited December 17, 2007 by thai_narak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Does anyone know if Thailand accepts dual nationality? I know in Singapore they don't so any Expat taking a Singapore passport, has to give up their original nationality. Thailand accepts duality of nationality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david96 Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Does anyone know if Thailand accepts dual nationality? I know in Singapore they don't so any Expat taking a Singapore passport, has to give up their original nationality. Thailand accepts duality of nationality. Yes in a limited sense that when a Thai national obtains citizenship of a foreign country it is recognised but if a foreign national obtains Thai citizenship it is not. There is a list on a website somewhere which lists all countries that recognise dual citizenship, limited dual citizenship and those that do not recognise dual citizenship. Very complex subject in international law. If one was to become a Thai citizen you would probably have little interest in the country of you birth anyway. You would have gone "completely native"by that time. Not a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madjbs Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Yes in a limited sense that when a Thai national obtains citizenship of a foreign country it is recognised but if a foreign national obtains Thai citizenship it is not. I dont think so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 There will be icicles hanging off the roof of Wat Po before this amendment gets passed into law. that's kinda what they said about foreign women marrying Thai men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilHarries Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 The cynic in me tells me that this has been designed as nothing more than a confidence boosting measure.. a populist policy for the farang population that will never see the light of day...But I hope it will. Foreigners do not have the right to vote so it is pointless targeting policies at them. Only citizens can vote. But think of all those Thai citizens with farang hubbies or harbour hopes of hooking one. But anyway it's all smoke and mirrors isn't it? What's under review today may be swept into the trash can in six days time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david96 Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Yes in a limited sense that when a Thai national obtains citizenship of a foreign country it is recognised but if a foreign national obtains Thai citizenship it is not. I dont think so Check this website out, http://www.geocities.com/jusjih/dncdp.html#dnsg Has information on countries concerning dual citizenship. Including Thailand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madjbs Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 And this website is the definate answer why exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thai_narak Posted December 18, 2007 Author Share Posted December 18, 2007 Does anyone know if Thailand accepts dual nationality? I know in Singapore they don't so any Expat taking a Singapore passport, has to give up their original nationality. Thailand accepts duality of nationality. Yes in a limited sense that when a Thai national obtains citizenship of a foreign country it is recognised but if a foreign national obtains Thai citizenship it is not. There is a list on a website somewhere which lists all countries that recognise dual citizenship, limited dual citizenship and those that do not recognise dual citizenship. Very complex subject in international law. If one was to become a Thai citizen you would probably have little interest in the country of you birth anyway. You would have gone "completely native"by that time. Not a bad idea. i agree with you. just think about it, your wife and children are thai, you have a land and house, you can speak the language and you wear that yellow shirt every monday so what is the question for allegiance? and in how much is the probability that your home country will be going to be in war with thailand? 1:193? but if you are a US citizen then the chance might be more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendix Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 If this move is to comply with equal opportunities legislation, isnt it much more likely that rather than giving farang husbands the right to citizenship, that right will be withdrawn from farang wives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thai_narak Posted December 18, 2007 Author Share Posted December 18, 2007 If this move is to comply with equal opportunities legislation, isnt it much more likely that rather than giving farang husbands the right to citizenship, that right will be withdrawn from farang wives? going backwards? why not? in this case, there will be more half/half thai-farang orphaned or single parented kids in the next coming years. i hope this is not what the thai government wants to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david96 Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Hereis some more information on Thai nationality. THAILAND CITIZENSHIP: Citizenship laws are based on the Nationality Act of 1965 with Amendment No.2 AD 1992 and Amendment No.3 AD 1993. BY BIRTH: Birth within the territory of Thailand does not automatically confer citizenship. A person born of a father or mother of Thai nationality, whether within or outside the Thai Kingdom. A person born within the Thai Kingdom except a person of alien parents if, at the time of birth, the father was not married to the mother, unless the mother was given leniency for temporary residence or had been permitted to stay temporarily in the Thai Kingdom, unless she had entered the Kingdom without permission. BY DESCENT: Child born in wedlock, either of whose parents is a citizen of Thailand, regardless of the child's country of birth. Child born out of wedlock, whose mother is a citizen of Thailand and whose father is unknown or stateless, regardless of the child's country of birth. BY NATURALIZATION: Before being able to apply for Thai citizenship, the person must have the following qualifications: Have displayed good behavior. Have a regular occupation. Have a domicile in the Thai Kingdom for a consecutive period of not less than five years. Have knowledge of Thai language. DUAL CITIZENSHIP: NOT RECOGNIZED. Exceptions: Child born abroad to Thai parents, who obtains the citizenship of the foreign country of birth, may retain dual citizenship until reaching the age of majority (18). At this point, person must choose which citizenship to retain. A Thai woman who marries a foreign national and acquires her husband's citizenship has technically lost her Thai citizenship. Should the marriage end in death or divorce, the Thai national woman could regain her Thai citizenship. This is an unofficial dual citizenship designed to protect female Thai nationals. LOSS OF CITIZENSHIP: VOLUNTARY: Voluntary renunciation of citizenship is permitted by Thai law. Contact the Embassy for details and proper paperwork. If a person of Thai nationality who was born of an alien father and has acquired the nationality of their father desires to retain the other nationality, they must renounce Thai nationality within one year after attaining the age of twenty years. INVOLUNTARY: The following are grounds for involuntary loss of Thai citizenship: Person voluntarily acquires foreign citizenship. When there exist circumstances suitable for maintaining the security or interests of the State, the government is empowered to revoke Thai nationality of a person who had acquired Thai nationality through naturalization. ANY QUESTIONS concerning citizenship, or requests for renunciation of citizenship, should be directed to the address below: Embassy of Thailand Consular Section 1024 Wisconsin Ave., NW Washington, DC 20007 Embassy/Consular Telephone: 202-944-3600 Fax: 202-944-3611 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madjbs Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 This information is wrong or out of date, someone knowledge on the subject will be able to direct you to the correct regulations. Embassy web sites are not reliable sources of information, they tend to get in a muddle and different embassies all say different things on the same subjects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david96 Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 This information is wrong or out of date, someone knowledge on the subject will be able to direct you to the correct regulations. Embassy web sites are not reliable sources of information, they tend to get in a muddle and different embassies all say different things on the same subjects. Can you obtain the latest version of The Thai Nationality Act (2535 B.E.) in English? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaketyak Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Shame they don't acknowledge and give the same rights to same sex couples , (one Thai and one UK citizen) who have been legally married in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felt 35 Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Bangkok Post Today What it takes to be a Thai Section 10 and 11 from the Nationality Act BE 2508 (1965) as amended by Act BE 2535 (1992) An alien possessing the following qualifications may apply for naturalisation as a Thai (1) becoming sui juris in accordance with Thai law and the law under which he/she has Nationality. (2) Having good behavior. (3) having a regular occupation. (4) Having a domicile in the Thai Kingdom for a consecutive period of not less than five years until the day of filing the application for naturalisation. (5) Have knowledge of the Thai language as prescribed in the regulations. Section 11: The provisions of section 10 (4) and (5) shall apply if the applicant for naturalisation as a Thai: (1) Has rendered distinguished service to Thailand or has done acts to the benefit of official service, which is deemed suitable by the Minister. (2) is a child or wife of a person who has been naturalised as a Thai or has recovered Thai Nationality, or (3) is one who used to have Thai Nationality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thai_narak Posted December 18, 2007 Author Share Posted December 18, 2007 (edited) and this is really what it means i guess... Bangkok Post TodayWhat it takes to be a Thai Section 10 and 11 from the Nationality Act BE 2508 (1965) as amended by Act BE 2535 (1992) An alien possessing the following qualifications may apply for naturalisation as a Thai (1) becoming sui juris in accordance with Thai law and the law under which he/she has Nationality. - should not be crazy, in good health, and able to support yourself. (2) Having good behavior. - police clearance (3) having a regular occupation. - work permit (4) Having a domicile in the Thai Kingdom for a consecutive period of not less than five years until the day of filing the application for naturalisation. - PR (resident permit) for 5 years (5) Have knowledge of the Thai language as prescribed in the regulations. - able sing the national and king's anthem Section 11: The provisions of section 10 (4) and (5) shall apply if the applicant for naturalisation as a Thai: (1) Has rendered distinguished service to Thailand or has done acts to the benefit of official service, which is deemed suitable by the Minister. (2) is a child or wife of a person who has been naturalised as a Thai or has recovered Thai Nationality, or (3) is one who used to have Thai Nationality. the route may look like this: - you have at least 3 years of non-immigrant visa, work permit and paid taxes to qualify for PR. fee, approx. 200,000 baht (not including tea money). - stay in thailand by PR. may renew your PR book twice and apply several re-entry during this 5 years. fee, approx. 50,000 baht. - apply for citizenship. fee, (heard someone, a lady friend, that they've paid 150,000 for tea money and that was 10 years ago). she got naturalised 2-3 years after her application. so to summarise, you may spend about 500,000 baht and 10 years of application for thai naturalisation not to mention the humiliation from the authorities during this 10 year period. i think i cannot stomach this... but i may be wrong. Edited December 18, 2007 by thai_narak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marquess Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 i've reading the bangkok post just now and quite shocked with this news:excerpt from BP: "Two other laws on gender equality are awaiting Cabinet approval: The draft Name Prefix Bill, which will give women the choice of a name change after marriage, and the draft amendment of the Nationality Act, to allow foreign men who marry Thai women to request Thai nationality. Foreign women who marry Thai men already have this privilege." read it all here: http://www.bangkokpost.com/Outlook/13Dec2007_out54.php well, i think it's about time... although permanent residency is already more than enough for me (relaxing this law). That link doesn't seem to be working, I wonder then if they have changed their mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david96 Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 From the Royal Thai Embassy website Canberra, Australia. http://www.thaiembassy.org.au/migration_info.pdf There is no mention in this document of a foreign national being able to obtain citizenship and the criteria and whether he/she can retain same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thai_narak Posted December 19, 2007 Author Share Posted December 19, 2007 (edited) From the Royal Thai Embassy website Canberra, Australia.http://www.thaiembassy.org.au/migration_info.pdf There is no mention in this document of a foreign national being able to obtain citizenship and the criteria and whether he/she can retain same. your link only refers to "who can acquire nationality by birth". check the complete act here: http://www.ibiblio.org/obl/docs3/THAILAND&...onality_Act.htm Edited December 19, 2007 by thai_narak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thai_narak Posted December 19, 2007 Author Share Posted December 19, 2007 (edited) i've reading the bangkok post just now and quite shocked with this news:excerpt from BP: "Two other laws on gender equality are awaiting Cabinet approval: The draft Name Prefix Bill, which will give women the choice of a name change after marriage, and the draft amendment of the Nationality Act, to allow foreign men who marry Thai women to request Thai nationality. Foreign women who marry Thai men already have this privilege." read it all here: http://www.bangkokpost.com/Outlook/13Dec2007_out54.php well, i think it's about time... although permanent residency is already more than enough for me (relaxing this law). That link doesn't seem to be working, I wonder then if they have changed their mind? i think BP already deleted the link and moved the article it in their archive. i do not know that they are not keeping links longer than 6 days! Edited December 19, 2007 by thai_narak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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