Channel 4 Documentary - Uk

[Theyreallrubbish]

Emp. I think the documentary is about sex tourism per sa, as opposed to sex slaves in dodgy brothels.

Don't kid yourself Jim, the vast majority of these girls are slaves in one way or another.

The idea that these girls for the most part enjoy their profession and partake of it out of a clear and informed choice is merely a myth perpetrated by the men who use their services to feel better about themselves.

been here for 7 years, managed a go go bar for sometime, married ex bar girl, i say they enjoy the life not all but most. even when they have a farang sending them more than enough money to quit each month they carry on why, well in the village they are tied to there kids. no smoking no drinking and only drunken bums for boy friends. here they can drink smoke earn loads of money with sex thrown in. in my opinion the slave factor is a myth. i had some girls with several boy friends sending them oney as much as 50,000 per month. did they go home no way only as far as BKK airport. what i could never get my head around was most of them had a Thai boyfriend to go home to. most of the time it is consenting adults

Was the bit in the documentary where the girls said that they get beaten up by customers regularly and thats it common to not get paid true?

I've heard very occassional gripes about not being paid from girls and only once or twice heard a claim of violence by a customer from a girl. I've heard lots of claims of violence by girls against the customers though!!

[Ulysses G.]

The idea that these girls for the most part enjoy their profession and partake of it out of a clear and informed choice is merely a myth perpetrated by the men who use their services to feel better about themselves.

Some of them like it, some of them don't, but they all love the money!

[scotwumman]

The timing of the programme being shown is good approaching the high season when visitors may think twice about

the background of most of these girls and the fact that most of them want to be married or helped to be educated.

People who travel Thailand more than once, myself included, can become quite cynical about the culture (and the rising

prices) but should not direct these feelings towards the girls who are infinitely more cheerful than those left behind

for whatever reason

[DP25]

I think it's hilarious that the girls tell the same lies to the reporters to gain sympathy as they tell to the men when they're trying to scam them out of their money. Strangely they never mentioned the multiple boyfriends all around the world sending them money while they continue to work, or the men who got driven out of the country or murdered after the scam had run its course. Or how these girls make 10 times the what the average worker makes per month, and sometimes much more if they get a lot of 'husbands.' I also wonder how much they got paid to do their interviews, as I doubt they were doing for free.

[stevemiddie]

I think it's hilarious that the girls tell the same lies to the reporters to gain sympathy as they tell to the men when they're trying to scam them out of their money. Strangely they never mentioned the multiple boyfriends all around the world sending them money while they continue to work, or the men who got driven out of the country or murdered after the scam had run its course. Or how these girls make 10 times the what the average worker makes per month, and sometimes much more if they get a lot of 'husbands.' I also wonder how much they got paid to do their interviews, as I doubt they were doing for free.

Don,t always believe the hype.

[scotwumman]

Yes DP should add to my earliest post. Sending money is not to be recommended just having a good time and extending

a bit of civility and courtesy whilst on holiday is what I meant to put over.

[ClaytonSeymour]

I think it's hilarious that the girls tell the same lies to the reporters to gain sympathy as they tell to the men when they're trying to scam them out of their money. Strangely they never mentioned the multiple boyfriends all around the world sending them money while they continue to work, or the men who got driven out of the country or murdered after the scam had run its course.That's a serious accusation, do you have proof that either of the two girls featured in the documentary have committed murder? Or how these girls make 10 times the what the average worker makes per month, and sometimes much more if they get a lot of 'husbands.' I also wonder how much they got paid to do their interviews, as I doubt they were doing for free. Of course you'd be prepared to do interviews and appear in a documentary for free.

[Khutan]

A simple observation:

You don't think there may be a little bit of hype and tittilation to get the ratings up for CH 4 in the UK???

Frankly I find applying the standard of one culture to another inappropriate, and taking the extremes from one culture and presenting it as "Edu-tainment" is poor taste.

Maybe Thai TV should do a doco on the extremes of western culture, and show it here.

[SpacemanSpliff]

Well they do get HBO.

It's about as factual as Ch4 docutainment.

Anyway I think it's great; any publicity is good publicity, and it will help tourism of every kind.

[Khutan]

Anyway I think it's great; any publicity is good publicity, and it will help tourism of every kind.

Just like the S21 museum in Cambodia That is publicity

[ClaytonSeymour]

A simple observation:

You don't think there may be a little bit of hype and tittilation to get the ratings up for CH 4 in the UK???

Frankly I find applying the standard of one culture to another inappropriate, and taking the extremes from one culture and presenting it as "Edu-tainment" is poor taste.

Maybe Thai TV should do a doco on the extremes of western culture, and show it here. The censors would either ban, or edit it beyond enjoyment.

[JimsKnight]

Emp. I think the documentary is about sex tourism per sa, as opposed to sex slaves in dodgy brothels.

Don't kid yourself Jim, the vast majority of these girls are slaves in one way or another.

The idea that these girls for the most part enjoy their profession and partake of it out of a clear and informed choice is merely a myth perpetrated by the men who use their services to feel better about themselves.

been here for 7 years, managed a go go bar for sometime, married ex bar girl, i say they enjoy the life not all but most. even when they have a farang sending them more than enough money to quit each month they carry on why, well in the village they are tied to there kids. no smoking no drinking and only drunken bums for boy friends. here they can drink smoke earn loads of money with sex thrown in. in my opinion the slave factor is a myth. i had some girls with several boy friends sending them oney as much as 50,000 per month. did they go home no way only as far as BKK airport. what i could never get my head around was most of them had a Thai boyfriend to go home to. most of the time it is consenting adults

Shhh, you'll upset the puritans and do-gooders who love to demonis the 'evil' of the flesh trade.

Those folk tend to forget that the unfortunates of the flesh trade typically create their own personal hel_l either by drugs, dodgy boyfriend etc etc.

The only time I heard of anything close to what Emp. was saying was from a guy in HH who went to a thai/hilltribe brothel near the border with Burma. The description he gave me of the place did seem like a slave-trade operation and he said he could not find the pleasure in such a place having then seen it. He went on to say that typically these places are off the farang circuit and only the most desperate and jaded expats and thais go to them (they are cheap and dirty)

As far as beer-bars and the mainstream hookery most farangs get into, that's far and away a different kettle of fish to the daily mail-esque vision of a shaking slave-girl going out to start a nights hookery.

[madjbs]

Just watched it, It wasn’t as bad as expected but still lots of inaccuracies. It’s a shame they can’t show a bit more of the bigger picture instead of leading people in Britain to believe they are what the majority of the girls in Thailand are like.

[scotwumman]

Perhaps filming was allowed as the mamasin(?) looked down on her luck. Having seen the larger bars

housing perhaps prettier girls and more money doing the rounds, they mightn't have been allowed

to film, at least not for small change and this seems to have been done on a budget as a result

[DP25]

That's a serious accusation, do you have proof that either of the two girls featured in the documentary have committed murder?

I never said that they committed murder, only that they never talk about the girls that have multiple husbands that are sending money every month, or those that have their husbands thrown out of the country or murdered once they get their house built and the car paid off. Maybe these specific girls are completely honest, but foreign husbands getting taking advantage of is extremely common and I'm sure they know of many cases of it, yet it is never mention it.

Of course you'd be prepared to do interviews and appear in a documentary for free.

Of course I would give interviews for free. However, I suspect the documentary makers here want to push a certain point of view for their film, and I think the girls have every financial incentive to provide that view on tape.

[ClaytonSeymour]

Perhaps filming was allowed as the mamasin(?) looked down on her luck. Having seen the larger bars

housing perhaps prettier girls and more money doing the rounds, they mightn't have been allowed

to film, at least not for small change and this seems to have been done on a budget as a result

A source suggests that the plaza where the bar in question is situated, is actually closing down for re-development.

[ClaytonSeymour]

That's a serious accusation, do you have proof that either of the two girls featured in the documentary have committed murder?

I never said that they committed murder, only that they never talk about the girls that have multiple husbands that are sending money every month, or those that have their husbands thrown out of the country or murdered once they get their house built and the car paid off. Maybe these specific girls are completely honest, but foreign husbands getting taking advantage of is extremely common and I'm sure they know of many cases of it, yet it is never mention it. The way you worded it suggested that you were implying them personally, hence my comment.

Of course you'd be prepared to do interviews and appear in a documentary for free.

Of course I would give interviews for free. Well I wouldn't, so we have a difference of opinion. No pay No play. However, I suspect the documentary makers here want to push a certain point of view for their film, and I think the girls have every financial incentive to provide that view on tape. You don't know this for sure. Anyhow, some people are clearly unhappy about the negative publicity generated already - imagine if they'd shown all points of view?

[GuestHouse]

I for one would like to see a different angle on this oft repeated story - Less focus on the women in the sex trade and more on the behaviour, choices and thinking of sex tourists.

Chanel 4 (which is mandated under the terms of its license to offer a different view than the other UK TV stations) would I think be exactly the TV station to do this - Not as politically correct as the BBC and not scared of difficult issues as are many of the mainstream commercial chanels.

Now we might or course argue we can get the views of sextourists from posts in discussions on the internet - but I don't think so.

I think we'd all get a better uderstanding of the cock sure (pun not intended) views of the defeders of the sex industry and sex tourism if we had a face attached to those views.

Surely if the view that the sex industry and sex tourism is harmless fun for the boys is correct then we can expect queues of guys willing to defend it - a few posters here perhaps.

Or are we only to be treated to gawping at the women's tales?

Edit - Harmful to harmless as highlighted.

Edited December 20, 2007 by GuestHouse

[ClaytonSeymour]

I for one would like to see a different angle on this oft repeated story - Less focus on the women in the sex trade and more on the behaviour, choices and thinking of sex tourists.

Chanel 4 (which is mandated under the terms of its license to offer a different view than the other UK TV stations) would I think be exactly the TV station to do this - Not as politically correct as the BBC and not scared of difficult issues as are many of the mainstream commercial chanels.

Now we might or course argue we can get the views of sextourists from posts in discussions on the internet - but I don't think so.

I think we'd all get a better uderstanding of the cock sure (pun not intended) views of the defeders of the sex industry and sex tourism if we had a face attached to those views.

Surely if the view that the sex industry and sex tourism is harmful fun for the boys is correct then we can expect queues of guys willing to defend it - a few posters here perhaps.

Or are we only to be treated to gawping at the women's tales?

I think they touched the tourists perspective slightly in the Bangkok Bound series from years ago. I seem to remember one of the guys was a happily married jeweller, who went with his Wife's full consent & knowledge, on regular trips to see his young boyfriend.

To do it in depth would certainly require more than a couple of episodes as you certainly find guys from all walks of life. I'm sure a good few would want their faces/voices disguising, if only to prevent their other halfs back home knowing what they were really doing on their golfing trip.

[ClaytonSeymour]

I for one would like to see a different angle on this oft repeated story - Less focus on the women in the sex trade and more on the behaviour, choices and thinking of sex tourists.

Chanel 4 (which is mandated under the terms of its license to offer a different view than the other UK TV stations) would I think be exactly the TV station to do this - Not as politically correct as the BBC and not scared of difficult issues as are many of the mainstream commercial chanels.

Now we might or course argue we can get the views of sextourists from posts in discussions on the internet - but I don't think so.

I think we'd all get a better uderstanding of the cock sure (pun not intended) views of the defeders of the sex industry and sex tourism if we had a face attached to those views.

Surely if the view that the sex industry and sex tourism is harmless fun for the boys is correct then we can expect queues of guys willing to defend it - a few posters here perhaps.

Slightly off topic but, there's a debate currently raging on in the BBC's have your say re: Harriet Harman's suggestion that paying for sex should be illegal in the UK. The last time I looked, the majority were heavily in favour of going the opposite way.

Or are we only to be treated to gawping at the women's tales?

Edit - Harmful to harmless as highlighted.

[yorkman]

To add to GH post above, has anybody checked out how big the South Korean "industry" is.. if you are Japanese? It overwhelms Thailand in terms of numbers.

I too would like a different slant on this oft repeated story. Most, 98% or more, I will be be very conservative, perhaps, and argue the numbers as no doubt some will do, are normal people, all they want is a peaceful productive life.

I too would rather see the focus on more on the behaviour, choices and thinking of sex tourists

I almost dread standing at the front of a plane heading into BKK, and looking at rows of 50's sweaty, balding, tatooed in singlet and shorts tourists, and asking, is this what Thailand deserves?

[kat]

Emp. I think the documentary is about sex tourism per sa, as opposed to sex slaves in dodgy brothels.

Don't kid yourself Jim, the vast majority of these girls are slaves in one way or another.

The idea that these girls for the most part enjoy their profession and partake of it out of a clear and informed choice is merely a myth perpetrated by the men who use their services to feel better about themselves.

been here for 7 years, managed a go go bar for sometime, married ex bar girl, i say they enjoy the life not all but most. even when they have a farang sending them more than enough money to quit each month they carry on why, well in the village they are tied to there kids. no smoking no drinking and only drunken bums for boy friends. here they can drink smoke earn loads of money with sex thrown in. in my opinion the slave factor is a myth. i had some girls with several boy friends sending them oney as much as 50,000 per month. did they go home no way only as far as BKK airport. what i could never get my head around was most of them had a Thai boyfriend to go home to. most of the time it is consenting adults

Shhh, you'll upset the puritans and do-gooders who love to demonis the 'evil' of the flesh trade.

Those folk tend to forget that the unfortunates of the flesh trade typically create their own personal hel_l either by drugs, dodgy boyfriend etc etc.

The only time I heard of anything close to what Emp. was saying was from a guy in HH who went to a thai/hilltribe brothel near the border with Burma. The description he gave me of the place did seem like a slave-trade operation and he said he could not find the pleasure in such a place having then seen it. He went on to say that typically these places are off the farang circuit and only the most desperate and jaded expats and thais go to them (they are cheap and dirty)

As far as beer-bars and the mainstream hookery most farangs get into, that's far and away a different kettle of fish to the daily mail-esque vision of a shaking slave-girl going out to start a nights hookery.

Yes, there is a two-tier system between the local trade and the tourist trade. The tourist trade doesn't even touch the tip of it. However, especially in a developing country, you can never completely remove the demand side from the supply side as a factor.

I for one would like to see a different angle on this oft repeated story - Less focus on the women in the sex trade and more on the behaviour, choices and thinking of sex tourists.

Chanel 4 (which is mandated under the terms of its license to offer a different view than the other UK TV stations) would I think be exactly the TV station to do this - Not as politically correct as the BBC and not scared of difficult issues as are many of the mainstream commercial chanels.

Now we might or course argue we can get the views of sextourists from posts in discussions on the internet - but I don't think so.

I think we'd all get a better uderstanding of the cock sure (pun not intended) views of the defeders of the sex industry and sex tourism if we had a face attached to those views.

Surely if the view that the sex industry and sex tourism is harmless fun for the boys is correct then we can expect queues of guys willing to defend it - a few posters here perhaps.

Or are we only to be treated to gawping at the women's tales?

Edit - Harmful to harmless as highlighted.

Yes, agreed.

[bangsue]

there is one called "Love me Long Time" on google video, about half an hour long and is some English guys being interviewed.

[Theyreallrubbish]

there is one called "Love me Long Time" on google video, about half an hour long and is some English guys being interviewed.

Thanks for that. I just watched it. Handled quite sympathetically and showed absolutely classic situations and results and self-delusion through their own actions and words.

Justin working in the beach bar (money ran out and addicted to Thailand so living on sub 20k per month just to stay), Tony and Aew contemplating going home, (money running out, she's probably a lot less relaxed now and will be miserable in England without an easy paid for life) Barry having no plans to see Mee-ow again (caught her in lies about her other boyfriends). All of us probably know exactly what is going on in each of these situations as we've seen it over and over again.

[billp]

Regarding the comments about the looks of the protagonists in the Channel 4 docu. I thought they both were kind of cute, certainly not ugly by any means. And the fact they weren't classic beauties somehow made their stories more poignant. Certainly the men shown in the film were also not matinee idols either.

[snoophound]

Cant see what all the fuss is about.

Its all fairly accurate,has been for more than 20 years,its just getting more exposure now.

Lonely 45 up males emotionaly exhausted and morally bankrupt taking a holiday and getting laid.

If you can afford it ,its fun,as long as you cant forget it until the next time you go back.

Why hide behind it?

Admit why you went originaly,admit why you live in Pattaya ...oh sure thats right its the climate and the golf right.

Regarding the comments about the looks of the protagonists in the Channel 4 docu. I thought they both were kind of cute, certainly not ugly by any means. And the fact they weren't classic beauties somehow made their stories more poignant. Certainly the men shown in the film were also not matinee idols either.

[blizzard]

what are some ways that farm gurls can get themselves out of poverty, i would like to know............

[Spee]

Lonely 45 up males emotionaly exhausted and morally bankrupt taking a holiday and getting laid.

Personally, I find the self-righteous generalizations, loathing and judgmentalism exhausting and morally bankrupt.

[Pepe']

Recently there was a show on the history channel called The History of Sex, maybe you can Google it.

In ancient times, in China, it was described that the prostitutes were regarded as "angels of mercy." They were respected members of society. The brothels were the place to meet and network.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Personally I believe eating rotting carcases is more despicable than doing a working girl.

But that's just my opinion...

[meemiathai]

To add to GH post above, has anybody checked out how big the South Korean "industry" is.. if you are Japanese? It overwhelms Thailand in terms of numbers.

I too would like a different slant on this oft repeated story. Most, 98% or more, I will be be very conservative, perhaps, and argue the numbers as no doubt some will do, are normal people, all they want is a peaceful productive life.

I too would rather see the focus on more on the behaviour, choices and thinking of sex tourists

I almost dread standing at the front of a plane heading into BKK, and looking at rows of 50's sweaty, balding, tatooed in singlet and shorts tourists, and asking, is this what Thailand deserves?

Well South Korea used to be a very popular destination for sex service 20 years ago for Hong Kong. Prostitution is everywhere and can't be stopped. It is like trying to stop people from eating! Sex is just one of the needs of human beings.

The only way to minimize the harm it has on people is to face reality and legalize it. So people get basic rights. I see a lot of sufferings due to its illegality. But of course hypocrisy is in the way of societies advancing as usual.