No End In Sight As South Thai Rebellion Enters Fifth Year

[Scott]

I think I am missing something. I thought it was 10 killed, but Jai Dee's post refers to 9. Is there a discrepency or did I miss something?

[faranglandoz]

I know Thailand does not want to lose land, as it has to other neighbouring countries, but what use is it trying to retain these three provinces. Does this area have rich minerals or potential oil wells? If not I think it would be better to move all the budhists further north, and rehouse them. Then I would give these three provinces back to the muslims. This area can either revert back to Malaysia or they can become totally independant. By that I mean that Thailand should not give them anything, just leave the present infrastructure for them, then see how they go on their own.

Faranglandoz

How are things in dreamland ? To take your logic to its conclusion

the USA should move everyone out of New York City and turn it over to Bin Laden. Chok Dee.

I did'nt know that New York City use to belong to Bin Laden

Faranglandoz

Well now your true colors are showing. It did not take much to smoke you out of your rat hole. You are a Jihadist uncovered. I only hope that the Thai authorities are reading this thread and pay you a visit.

Yuo really are a stupid, uneducated, sceptic tank

[Scott]

Faranglandoz: I think the idea of just giving them up, just doesn't sit well with the idea of nationhood. Few countries willingly give up territory, anymore than few of us would give up a chunck of our yard/garden to the neighbors because they really wanted it.

There are a whole host of problems created when you move the Buddhists out of the area as well. First of all where will they go? What will they do? What about their land, property and businesses in the South? When you have a movement of people into another area, the local inhabitants are usually not very happy. If they are given settlement payments of some sort, there is jealousy and other problems in the areas of relocation.

Another significant problem is what happens to the provinces. Do they become independent? If so, what type of gov't and who will be in charge? If the insurgents are in charge there are likely to be reprecussions for the moderates and those who backed the gov't or were seen to back the gov't. This could end up with a lot of the Muslims leaving the area and going further north or to Malaysia, creating further stress. Now if the gov't has paid the Buddhists to resettle, but doesn't help the Muslims, we are back to square 1.

[Jai Dee]

I know Thailand does not want to lose land, as it has to other neighbouring countries, but what use is it trying to retain these three provinces. Does this area have rich minerals or potential oil wells? If not I think it would be better to move all the budhists further north, and rehouse them. Then I would give these three provinces back to the muslims. This area can either revert back to Malaysia or they can become totally independant. By that I mean that Thailand should not give them anything, just leave the present infrastructure for them, then see how they go on their own.

Faranglandoz

How are things in dreamland ? To take your logic to its conclusion

the USA should move everyone out of New York City and turn it over to Bin Laden. Chok Dee.

I did'nt know that New York City use to belong to Bin Laden

Faranglandoz

Well now your true colors are showing. It did not take much to smoke you out of your rat hole. You are a Jihadist uncovered. I only hope that the Thai authorities are reading this thread and pay you a visit.

Yuo really are a stupid, uneducated, sceptic tank

OK folks... enough of the flaming please.

[Jai Dee]

I think I am missing something. I thought it was 10 killed, but Jai Dee's post refers to 9. Is there a discrepency or did I miss something?

There does seem to be a reporting discrepancy... The Nation is also reporting 10 killed.

Air Force chief Yala crash biggest loss in 20 years

Air Force Commander-in-Chief ACM Chalit Pukphasuk said Thursday that the crash of an Air Force helicopter in Yala was the biggest loss of the Air Force in 20 years.

The crash in Betong on Wednesday killed all the ten officials on board.

Chalit said the doomed fate helicopter was very old and had been in service for 39 years.

Source: The Nation - 08 August 2008

[sriracha john]

The crash in Betong on Wednesday killed all the ten officials on board.

Chalit said the doomed fate helicopter was very old and had been in service for 39 years.

and yet we constantly hear from a couple of disgruntled posters complaining about the "opportunistic" military procuring new equipment.

[NanaFoods]

<snip>

Edited August 8, 2008 by Jai Dee
Off-topic comments and flame deleted.

[faranglandoz]

Faranglandoz: I think the idea of just giving them up, just doesn't sit well with the idea of nationhood. Few countries willingly give up territory, anymore than few of us would give up a chunck of our yard/garden to the neighbors because they really wanted it.

There are a whole host of problems created when you move the Buddhists out of the area as well. First of all where will they go? What will they do? What about their land, property and businesses in the South? When you have a movement of people into another area, the local inhabitants are usually not very happy. If they are given settlement payments of some sort, there is jealousy and other problems in the areas of relocation.

Another significant problem is what happens to the provinces. Do they become independent? If so, what type of gov't and who will be in charge? If the insurgents are in charge there are likely to be reprecussions for the moderates and those who backed the gov't or were seen to back the gov't. This could end up with a lot of the Muslims leaving the area and going further north or to Malaysia, creating further stress. Now if the gov't has paid the Buddhists to resettle, but doesn't help the Muslims, we are back to square 1.

Scott I know what I proposed was'nt a great position. I can't see anything else working. How many people have to die before a radical solution is found. If the muslim majority don't want to be a part of Thailand, (before 1902 those southerly provices were a seperate sultancy) what do you do.

Faranglandoz

[NanaFoods]

Faranglandoz: I think the idea of just giving them up, just doesn't sit well with the idea of nationhood. Few countries willingly give up territory, anymore than few of us would give up a chunck of our yard/garden to the neighbors because they really wanted it.

There are a whole host of problems created when you move the Buddhists out of the area as well. First of all where will they go? What will they do? What about their land, property and businesses in the South? When you have a movement of people into another area, the local inhabitants are usually not very happy. If they are given settlement payments of some sort, there is jealousy and other problems in the areas of relocation.

Another significant problem is what happens to the provinces. Do they become independent? If so, what type of gov't and who will be in charge? If the insurgents are in charge there are likely to be reprecussions for the moderates and those who backed the gov't or were seen to back the gov't. This could end up with a lot of the Muslims leaving the area and going further north or to Malaysia, creating further stress. Now if the gov't has paid the Buddhists to resettle, but doesn't help the Muslims, we are back to square 1.

Scott I know what I proposed was'nt a great position. I can't see anything else working. How many people have to die before a radical solution is found. If the muslim majority don't want to be a part of Thailand, (before 1902 those southerly provices were a seperate sultancy) what do you do.

Faranglandoz

Land concessions didnt bring peace in 1939.

They didnt bring peace today in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, though promises of peace were made.

What makes you think it will work in Thailand?

[sriracha john]

When is something going to be done by the government about the South?

Thai Air Force soldiers carry caskets containing the bodies of nine people who died after a Thai army helicopter crashed, at the Royal Thai Air force Headquarters in Bangkok. The Thai Air Force helicopter crashed on Wednesday in the country's troubled south, killing all 10 aboard, an Army spokesman said, the second military helicopter to go down in the region in less than two months. One body was returned to Prachuap Khiri Khan province.

REUTERS

[rott]

I know Thailand does not want to lose land, as it has to other neighbouring countries, but what use is it trying to retain these three provinces. Does this area have rich minerals or potential oil wells? If not I think it would be better to move all the budhists further north, and rehouse them. Then I would give these three provinces back to the muslims. This area can either revert back to Malaysia or they can become totally independant. By that I mean that Thailand should not give them anything, just leave the present infrastructure for them, then see how they go on their own.

Faranglandoz

A very simplistic answer, and a great reward for cowardly murderers. Have you read the reports of their typical 'operations', my sympathy to the buddhists trying to live peacefully in the place of their birth.

F/oz, would you have been as keen to give Ulster to the IRA? - Or do I already know the answer to that one?

[papajohn]

I know Thailand does not want to lose land, as it has to other neighbouring countries, but what use is it trying to retain these three provinces. Does this area have rich minerals or potential oil wells? If not I think it would be better to move all the budhists further north, and rehouse them. Then I would give these three provinces back to the muslims. This area can either revert back to Malaysia or they can become totally independant. By that I mean that Thailand should not give them anything, just leave the present infrastructure for them, then see how they go on their own.

Faranglandoz

How are things in dreamland ? To take your logic to its conclusion

the USA should move everyone out of New York City and turn it over to Bin Laden. Chok Dee.

I did'nt know that New York City use to belong to Bin Laden

Faranglandoz

Well now your true colors are showing. It did not take much to smoke you out of your rat hole. You are a Jihadist uncovered. I only hope that the Thai authorities are reading this thread and pay you a visit.

Yuo really are a stupid, uneducated, sceptic tank

Just the reply I expected ! Uneducated ??? please check your spelling I can always tell when the truth hurts ! chok dee

[Tony Clifton]

After what...one week in office?

This guy is as efficient as the boys in brown uniforms concluding investigations in record time while working with dead bodies found in some of the strangest situations I have ever seen.

Interior minister claims southern situation improves

Deputy Prime Minister and Interior Minister Kowit Watana claimed Friday that the violent situation in the southern border provinces has improved and nearly returned to normality.

Kowit made the claimed at the Don Muang Aviation Police after he returned from a visit to the deep South.

"The violence has receded to the level that it is nearly normal now," Kowit said. Yes, daily violence and bombs are normal down there.

He said the government would appreciate if former prime minister Chavalit Yongchaiyudh was able to talk to insurgent groups to ask them to cease fire.

I thought I just read it is nearly normal now? Must be the font.

The Nation

Edited August 8, 2008 by Tony Clifton

[sriracha john]

Interior minister claims southern situation improves

Deputy Prime Minister and Interior Minister Kowit Watana claimed Friday that the violent situation in the southern border provinces has improved and nearly returned to normality.

Kowit made the claimed at the Don Muang Aviation Police after he returned from a visit to the deep South.

"The violence has receded to the level that it is nearly normal now," Kowit said. Yes, daily violence and bombs are normal down there.

The bombs are going off WHILE he's on his short visit... and this is "normal" and "improved"?????

Interior Minister Unfazed by Bomb Attacks during Deep South Tour

Insurgents have launched a new round of bomb attacks, injuring both officials and villagers in Pattani, during the new Interior Minister's first mission to the strife-torn region.

Newly-appointed Deputy Prime Minister and Interior Minister Kowit Watana has continued day-two of his first trip to Thailand's southern border area. Kowit left Bangkok yesterday to inspect the security teams in Narathiwat and Yala, as well as the Southern Border Provinces Administrative Center.

During his tour of the area, local officials have cut off mobile phone signals across town to ensure that insurgents would not be able to remotely detonate any explosives.

A tightened security program followed yesterday's bomb attacks at the Pattani-Narathiwat intersection, which injured eight policemen and two villagers. The ill-fated officers were reportedly on their way back from an inspection in the area and slowed their vehicle at the explosion site before unidentified attackers detonated the bombs.

Investigators said the attacks might be another attempt aimed at spurring fear during the Interior Minister's trip to the deep South. Thailand's three southern border provinces have been plagued with continued insurgent attacks since the beginning of 2004, with more than 3,000 people already losing their lives in the violence.

- Thailand Outlook

Edited August 9, 2008 by sriracha john

[faranglandoz]

I know Thailand does not want to lose land, as it has to other neighbouring countries, but what use is it trying to retain these three provinces. Does this area have rich minerals or potential oil wells? If not I think it would be better to move all the budhists further north, and rehouse them. Then I would give these three provinces back to the muslims. This area can either revert back to Malaysia or they can become totally independant. By that I mean that Thailand should not give them anything, just leave the present infrastructure for them, then see how they go on their own.

Faranglandoz

How are things in dreamland ? To take your logic to its conclusion

the USA should move everyone out of New York City and turn it over to Bin Laden. Chok Dee.

I did'nt know that New York City use to belong to Bin Laden

Faranglandoz

Well now your true colors are showing. It did not take much to smoke you out of your rat hole. You are a Jihadist uncovered. I only hope that the Thai authorities are reading this thread and pay you a visit.

Yuo really are a stupid, uneducated, sceptic tank

Just the reply I expected ! Uneducated ??? please check your spelling I can always tell when the truth hurts ! chok dee

If you cannot detect my computer keyboard error you are more stupid than I originally thought

Faranglansoz

[NanaFoods]

If you cannot detect my computer keyboard error you are more stupid than I originally thought

Faranglansoz

This JaiDee moderator snipped my post (two posts previous), within minutes of posting, and I didnt even call anyone "stupid"!!!

Yet this stuff flies by without an issue. I am beginning to think the moderates here have the same convoluted priorities as official Thai censors.

[papajohn]

I know Thailand does not want to lose land, as it has to other neighbouring countries, but what use is it trying to retain these three provinces. Does this area have rich minerals or potential oil wells? If not I think it would be better to move all the budhists further north, and rehouse them. Then I would give these three provinces back to the muslims. This area can either revert back to Malaysia or they can become totally independant. By that I mean that Thailand should not give them anything, just leave the present infrastructure for them, then see how they go on their own.

Faranglandoz

How are things in dreamland ? To take your logic to its conclusion

the USA should move everyone out of New York City and turn it over to Bin Laden. Chok Dee.

I did'nt know that New York City use to belong to Bin Laden

Faranglandoz

Well now your true colors are showing. It did not take much to smoke you out of your rat hole. You are a Jihadist uncovered. I only hope that the Thai authorities are reading this thread and pay you a visit.

Yuo really are a stupid, uneducated, sceptic tank

Just the reply I expected ! Uneducated ??? please check your spelling I can always tell when the truth hurts ! chok dee

If you cannot detect my computer keyboard error you are more stupid than I originally thought

Faranglansoz

are you insane?

[sriracha john]

Interior minister claims southern situation improves

Deputy Prime Minister and Interior Minister Kowit Watana claimed Friday that the violent situation in the southern border provinces has improved and nearly returned to normality.

Kowit made the claimed at the Don Muang Aviation Police after he returned from a visit to the deep South.

"The violence has receded to the level that it is nearly normal now," Kowit said. Yes, daily violence and bombs are normal down there.

The bombs are going off WHILE he's on his short visit... and this is "normal" and "improved"?????

Interior Minister Unfazed by Bomb Attacks during Deep South Tour

Insurgents have launched a new round of bomb attacks, injuring both officials and villagers in Pattani, during the new Interior Minister's first mission to the strife-torn region.

Newly-appointed Deputy Prime Minister and Interior Minister Kowit Watana has continued day-two of his first trip to Thailand's southern border area. Kowit left Bangkok yesterday to inspect the security teams in Narathiwat and Yala, as well as the Southern Border Provinces Administrative Center.

More evidence things are "normal" and "improved"....

Man beheaded in Thailand's strife-torn south

PATTANI, Thailand - The body and severed head of a man believed to have been beheaded by suspected Muslim insurgents was found Saturday in Thailand's strife-torn south, police said.

The remains of a 63-year-old Muslim villager were found on a roadside in Yarang district of Pattani province, police Lt. Anuson Janklap said.

"The motive of the killing is still under investigation, but we believe it is the work of insurgents," Anuson said.

More than 30 people, both Buddhist and Muslim, have been beheaded since violence in Thailand's southernmost provinces of Yala, Pattani and Narathiwat flared anew in early 2004.

Violence in the south, in the form of drive-by killings and small-scale bombings, is carried out by rebels on an almost daily basis, apparently in an effort to terrorize Buddhist residents into leaving the area.

The insurgents also target Muslims seen as collaborating with the government, including Muslim soldiers, police, informants and civilians. But some Muslims believe the security forces or Buddhist vigilantes might have a hand in the attacks on Muslims.

More than 3,300 people have been killed since January 2004 in the three provinces, which are the only Muslim-dominated areas in the Buddhist-majority country.

- Associated Press

[Tony Clifton]

More than 3,300 people have been killed since January 2004 in the three provinces, which are the only Muslim-dominated areas in the Buddhist-majority country.

That's an average of two victims a day non-stop since January 2004.

Edited August 10, 2008 by Tony Clifton

[sriracha john]

Many other news reports put the current toll at over 3,500 for the time frame...

[sriracha john]

"With the Thaksin hoopla, don't forget about us down here"....

Father, daughter shot dead; two others wounded in restive South

NARATHIWAT, Aug 12 (TNA) -- A nine-year-old girl and her father were shot dead while the mother and her son were critically wounded early Tuesday after gunmen fired on their pick-up truck in a rural area of this violence-impacted southern province, police said.

The incident took place in the early morning when the 53-year-old father, a fruit vendor, drove his pick-up truck, accompanied by the three other members of his family, and headed to buy fruit in Rangae district for sale later.

According to the police, a number of gunmen followed them in another pick-up, firing an estimated seven shots at them, causing the victims' vehicle to overturn after hitting an electrical power pole at the roadside.

The father and daughter died at the scene, while the mother and son were seriously wounded and sent to hospital for treatment.

Some 3,500 people have been killed since renewed violence broke out in January 2004 in Thailand's deep South.

[NanaFoods]

For Scott,

another well-educated terrorist

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/04/terror.arrest/index.html

[Scott]

Chefheat: Thanks for the link, I had heard of her before. I am not sure of it's relevance to the situation here, but I am guessing your pointing at the education level of terrorists.

As organizations, I certainly would have to agree (if that is your point). There are some very well educated, well-trained folks who know how to administer some very large and diverse operations world-wide. I don't think there is much that can be done about this problem outside of intelligence and military type operations against these upper level people.

My earlier remarks some time ago about less educated people being terrorists is based on sheer numbers and those people couldn't organize a &lt;deleted&gt;-fest in a whorehouse. If these under-educated, unemployed, lonely young men are removed from the equation, there is limited things that the organization itself can accomplish.

Again, thanks.

[Briggsy]

The crash in Betong on Wednesday killed all the ten officials on board.

Chalit said the doomed fate helicopter was very old and had been in service for 39 years.

and yet we constantly hear from a couple of disgruntled posters complaining about the "opportunistic" military procuring new equipment.

To be fair, you are not telling the whole story.

The military purchases often linked to huge amounts of money being siphoned off are often only thought through in terms of how much money each party can make off with. There is often no real intent to use the equipment. This can be demonstrated because usually 6 months after the deal, the equipment is mothballed due to lack of maintenance or parts. The military always claims a lack of budget. However, these expenses should have been factored in at the purchase. For the reasons above, they were not. Any half-decent accountant will advise you similarly. It is inconceivable that government departments are unaware of ongoing expenditure required to maintain military equipment.

So, in fact, the fact that the military is using 39-year-old helicopters is due to the appalling wastage of the budget rather than a lack of budget.

On a final point, I believe many parts of aircraft are replaced so a 39-year-old helicopter will contain many components newer than that. In addition, if there are safety concerns with an aircraft, it should not be flying. For a senior officer just to state the helicopter was old is highly irresponsible. The cause of the crash should be uncovered.

[sriracha john]

The mayhem continues...

Booby trap bomb injures 18 in Pattani

A hidden bomb exploded, injuring at 18 people, including police officers who were inspecting a crime scene where a local resident was shot dead by suspected militants.

Police said out of the 18, ten were civilians and the rest were security and forensic officers investigating the shooting death of Arun Lipistein, 25, a motorbike garage owner.

A gunman fired at Arun at close range with a handgun, police said. Afterwards, the culprits hid a five kilogramme bomb in the shop in Pattani's Tambon Paktoh.

- The Nation

[Briggsy]

The mayhem continues...

Police said out of the 18, ten were civilians and the rest were security and forensic officers investigating the shooting death of Arun Lipistein, 25, a motorbike garage owner.

A gunman fired at Arun at close range with a handgun, police said. Afterwards, the culprits hid a five kilogramme bomb in the shop in Pattani's Tambon Paktoh.

- The Nation

Lipistein?? Mossad, perhaps?

[papajohn]

The crash in Betong on Wednesday killed all the ten officials on board.

Chalit said the doomed fate helicopter was very old and had been in service for 39 years.

and yet we constantly hear from a couple of disgruntled posters complaining about the "opportunistic" military procuring new equipment.

To be fair, you are not telling the whole story.

The military purchases often linked to huge amounts of money being siphoned off are often only thought through in terms of how much money each party can make off with. There is often no real intent to use the equipment. This can be demonstrated because usually 6 months after the deal, the equipment is mothballed due to lack of maintenance or parts. The military always claims a lack of budget. However, these expenses should have been factored in at the purchase. For the reasons above, they were not. Any half-decent accountant will advise you similarly. It is inconceivable that government departments are unaware of ongoing expenditure required to maintain military equipment.

So, in fact, the fact that the military is using 39-year-old helicopters is due to the appalling wastage of the budget rather than a lack of budget.

On a final point, I believe many parts of aircraft are replaced so a 39-year-old helicopter will contain many components newer than that. In addition, if there are safety concerns with an aircraft, it should not be flying. For a senior officer just to state the helicopter was old is highly irresponsible. The cause of the crash should be uncovered.

Biggsey, I have no contention with your post, and it would be a very sad reflection on the Thai military

if what you say is true. Another POV is that both were operating over hostle country and as America learned the hard way it is not hard to bring down a chopper with an AK-47 from the ground. I think it is strange that the details of the investigation into the

crash of both are not forthcoming. Easy to say mechanical failure but what was the reason for the "mechanical failure" a bullet thru the rotor or fuel tank or the pilots controls could constitute mechanical failure. What is needed is a complete disclosure of the failure. Was it ground maintanance

or ground fire ? Is there an official confirmation as to the cause of the first crash? Just asking.

[sriracha john]

A shooting, a bombing, followed by another shooting...

Manhunt Operation Continues after Militants Detonate Bomb in Pattani

The joint police-military force continues a manhunt after militants in Pattani Province detonated a bomb, injuring 18 people yesterday.

A blast went off yesterday at the local motorcycle repair shop in tambon Paklor in Kokpoh District of Pattani Province. A militant opened fire on a motorcycle mechanic at the shop, killing him and then detonated a bomb that had been planted at the scene as the authorities arrived.

Some 18 locals and authorities are reported injured. The manhunt operation continues and the authorities believe the militant gang aimed to stir up violence.

Meanwhile, in Narathiwat Province, a militant shot a local villager on the Narathiwat-Takbai Road in front of the Ban Kapom Mosque in Muang District.

The injured, identified as Nawee Rawmae was on his way home after participating in a religious ceremony at a mosque when a militant gang followed him on motorcycle and opened fire on him, causing him severe injuries.

- Thailand Outlook / 14 August 2008

[sriracha john]

Followed by a bombing... and another shooting...

Tak Bai bomb blast injures eight workers

NARATHIWAT : Eight workers were wounded in a bomb explosion at a pier in Tak Bai district on Thursday, local police said. The blast occurred around 9.40pm while the workers were carrying what was suspected to be smuggled pork from a boat at a pier on the Sungai Kolok river to a six-wheel truck parked on a river bank. Police said the bomb was placed underneath a walkway to the pier and the explosion injured eight workers. Police said the injured were admitted to a Tak Bai hospital. A local militant group was suspected to be behind the attack, police said. Elsewhere in Narathiwat, a policeman was shot dead in a drunken brawl in Sungai Padi district in the early hours of yesterday. Police said Suradet Bin-arson, 37, was

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/160808_News/16Aug2008_news08.php

[sriracha john]

followed by another bombing...

Insurgents bomb railway in Thai South

BANGKOK -- Thai southernmost insurgents on Saturday morning triggered a huge bomb installed along a main railway in Narathiwat Province, causing the halt of southern rail service. One railway inspector was also injured, local radio said.

The insurgents hidden nearby triggered the bomb by mobile phone signal while six railway inspectors were checking facilities along the railway at about 7 a.m. (0000 GMT).

An 18-year-old inspector was injured on his chest and was rushed to a nearby hospital.

Local railway service halted immediately after the bombing. Local railway officials said workers were rushing to repair the railway and the service could be restored in two hours.

Thailand's three southernmost provinces -- Yala, Narathiwat and Pattani -- have been troubled with insurgency-related violence which has claimed more than 3,500 lives since it resumed in early 2004.

- China Daily / 2008-08-16