Two Tourists In Pai Shot By A Police Officer

[DamianMavis]

I did not hear about her slapping a police officer or at least remember it, there is reports of quite a bit more than that.

Why was there ever a police officer even at the scene to start with..... Oh that is right he was

the guy that just come up and punched Carly in the face and pulled out a gun and started shooting......

I cannot think of any time that I have been told of by someone or had been in a situation where I thought about disarming a person, it must be complete confussion and adrenaline.

If you dont know that the cop has claimed that he was eating at the street side noodle shop when he first saw them then I understand why your opinions are so strange. READ THE THREAD CAREFULLY. What reports are quite a bit more than slapping a cop? Dont make stuff up!! BACK THAT CLAIM UP or retract it.

Damian

We still don't know what really happened in this situation, but take for example a hypothetical example, where you believe that someone (armed) is going to harm you whether you submit or not. Maybe for some reason running away is also not an option - perhaps you are with someone who you don't want to abandon in a dangerous situation. In that case, believing that disarming them is the only way you are escaping unharmed (or even alive), wouldn't you attempt it? Or, is it at least conceivable to you that some reasonable person somewhere in the world might decide to try?

Hmmm, if I was a relative, and somebody in my family was shot, I would not be arguing semantic points, or hypothetical situations on an anonymous internet forum

That was out of line and totally uncalled for, who the he11 are you to judge what Leos family members do now? Why would you say that? Geeze man. Oh wait, let me add a smiley face so its not so bad.

Damian

Edited February 4, 2008 by DamianMavis

[yorkman]

Hmmm, if I was a relative, and somebody in my family was shot, I would not be arguing semantic points, or hypothetical situations on an anonymous internet forum

I don't quite understand what point you are trying to make here. That you believe I am not a relative? Or that my behaviour is inappropriate? Or simply that you and I are different people who deal with grief in different ways?

You simply reinforce my point

If I was was a relative who really cared, I would be over to Thailand in a heartbeat, rather than arguing semantic points over the internet, or posting hypothetical situations.

If dealing with grief is perpetuating a discussion on here, so be it.

I look under the bridge

[Danielle]

Over in Thailand doing what, exactly?

Yes, it was horrible. I was hysterical when I found out. But I have a life, too, and life won't let you put it on hold for too long before things start to fall apart. I found out about it in the middle of the night before classes were supposed to start this term. I missed school for a week because I couldn't concentrate or think about anything but what had happened and why. I did fly to Calgary on short notice for the funeral. If I could fly to Thailand to make it so this never happened, then I would. But obviously that is impossible, and the insignificant difference it would make for me to go there now is not worth setting myself back by years in my education. Instead I'm doing what I can from here, trying to promote awareness of the incident around my university campus. If I also choose to discuss things in an internet forum, why does that matter? So what if it also doesn't make a difference? It's something that I can do, and discussing it helps me to keep in mind that what happened is reality, not something that I can try to forget about or pretend didn't happen, which I feel is important.

Edited February 4, 2008 by Danielle

[Khun ?]

Damian

You make zero sense, what did the noodle cause him to attack the group.

I am not going back and read through the post for you and it stands what I said!

I think she did so this last time also, thinking she could get away with it being a Farang girl as last time.

It escalated in a bad way as many times before when drunks are involved in a confrontation.

[kat]

Over in Thailand doing what, exactly?

Yes, it was horrible. I was hysterical when I found out. But I have a life, too, and life won't let you put it on hold for too long before things start to fall apart. I found out about it in the middle of the night before classes were supposed to start this term. I missed school for a week because I couldn't concentrate or think about anything but what had happened and why. I did fly to Calgary on short notice for the funeral. If I could fly to Thailand to make it so this never happened, then I would. But obviously that is impossible, and the insignificant difference it would make for me to go there now is not worth setting myself back by years in my education. Instead I'm doing what I can from here, trying to promote awareness of the incident around my university campus. If I also choose to discuss things in an internet forum, why does that matter? So what if it also doesn't make a difference? It's something that I can do, and discussing it helps me to keep in mind that what happened is reality, not something that I can try to forget about or pretend didn't happen, which I feel is important.

Danielle, ignore them because they are not much better than low-grade trolls, and not even the better variety. You do not have to justify yourself to them. They are like weeds, trying to choke off any authentic or productive discussion with their unnecessary or unwanted reproduction. Let's hope at some point someone will come along and remove them from their roots.

Danielle is a real person btw, and she is Leo's cousin.

*added: her identity has been verified.

** Danielle, there is an ignore function on each profile. I would recommend using it, because I doubt you will get anything much better than this, I'm afraid.

Edited February 4, 2008 by kat

[sabaijai]

Let's stop the name-calling and use of capital letters, shall we? Stick to the facts, the issues, your opinions, and please stop attacking one another's character or we will close this thread.

[DamianMavis]

I will reword this minus the name I inferred.

Damian

You make zero sense, what did the noodle cause him to attack the group.

UH... You asked "what was the cop doing there in the first place?" And I answered you by telling you what the cops and witnesses have verified, that he was at the noodle vendor..... why are you having a hard time with this?

I am not going back and read through the post for you and it stands what I said!

Well, you are wrong. The post does not exist. You dont mind that what you are saying is not a real fact in this case supported by anyone? Not even the police said Carly had a history of BRUTAL attacks on police officers. Carly herself confirmed that she slapped one of the cops surrounding and harrasing her boyfriend once. A slap is hardly a BRUTAL attack. So what are you talking about?

I think she did so this last time also, thinking she could get away with it being a Farang girl as last time.

It escalated in a bad way as many times before when drunks are involved in a confrontation.

Instead I'm doing what I can from here, trying to promote awareness of the incident around my university campus.

So, the appeal to the sobbing eyes has gone. Rather quicky. But the short scandanavians are known for this

If you believe this you believe anything

Yorkman, is it that you dont think Danielle is who she says she is? Because I am shocked. Her identity has been confirmed. I think you are making a huge mistake here.

Damian

Edited February 4, 2008 by DamianMavis

[Khun ?]

Read Sabaijai's post again and you will find some other reports that included more than a slap like a knee,

might of been a punch mentioned also.

The police guy was at the shooting because of the victims group behavior and it was not at the noodle stand

but as one reprot was made, that noodle stand persons complaint of them fighting. I am sure the police guy

did not wait around there to attack them. I am not saying the police guy is not guilty of murder but it sure

does seem like he may of been provoked at the least, and even attacked may be a possibility.

[Frotting]

Thai police are obliged to interfere if there is trouble brewing, even if they are off duty.

What...when they're pissed up and armed too??

[DamianMavis]

Read Sabaijai's post again and you will find some other reports that included more than a slap like a knee,

might of been a punch mentioned also.

The police guy was at the shooting because of the victims group behavior and it was not at the noodle stand

but as one reprot was made, that noodle stand persons complaint of them fighting. I am sure the police guy

did not wait around there to attack them. I am not saying the police guy is not guilty of murder but it sure

does seem like he may of been provoked at the least, and even attacked may be a possibility.

Yes we dont know exactly what lead to the cop approaching them, but so far it seems its been confirmed he was at the noodle stand when he first saw them.

SABAIJAI, can you confirm you posted reports that Carly kneed and a cop before?

Damian

[farang prince]

All of this conjecture is useless until we finally get a complete autopsy report (from Canada as well as Thailand) as well as a toxicology report. I have a theory about how this shooting went down, but I'd rather wait for more definitive evidence before bringing mine forward. Suffice to say, there is a little bit of truth in what everyone involved is saying but also a lot that doesn't appear to ring true. I ask all the posters to show a little class and stop the personal attacks. Those aren't going to get us to the truth, will they?

[sabaijai]

Read Sabaijai's post again and you will find some other reports that included more than a slap like a knee,

might of been a punch mentioned also.

The police guy was at the shooting because of the victims group behavior and it was not at the noodle stand

but as one reprot was made, that noodle stand persons complaint of them fighting. I am sure the police guy

did not wait around there to attack them. I am not saying the police guy is not guilty of murder but it sure

does seem like he may of been provoked at the least, and even attacked may be a possibility.

Yes we dont know exactly what lead to the cop approaching them, but so far it seems its been confirmed he was at the noodle stand when he first saw them.

SABAIJAI, can you confirm you posted reports that Carly kneed and a cop before?

Damian

Confirmed. This was at Be-Bop, according to a couple of witnesses present at the time, one of them a musician who plays at Be-Bop regularly and who claims to have been struck by Carly during the same melee. I believe the musician, can't corroborate the character of the other witnesses.

[A_Traveller]

Sabaijai, I note that you commented that you had met the deceased. May I ask a hopefully simple question, given the reported discrepancies herein. Would you describe him as a 6 foot tall body builder, or similar?

Regards

[brahmburgers]

Dear Danielle, I fully appreciate what you've said. Pay little mind to the bottom crawlers who niggle for the sake of niggling.

[scotwumman]

Danielle Scotwumman just checkin in. We are with you power to your elbow in what you are doing for your deceased family member.

IMO those who are left will continue to perpetrate their evil. In order for evil to flourish it only takes good men to stand aside and say

nothing

[sabaijai]

Sabaijai, I note that you commented that you had met the deceased. May I ask a hopefully simple question, given the reported discrepancies herein. Would you describe him as a 6 foot tall body builder, or similar?

Regards

I met Leo twice, once in CM and once in Pai, both times in bars. He didn't seem either taller or shorter than average. I'm 6' 2" ft so most men seem shorter to me at first impression. Couldn't say whether he looked like a bodybuilder as on both occasions his arms were covered, so I can't comment on muscles, etc. He did give the impression of 'stocky', and someone who either was athletic or used to be athletic, if that makes sense. Piercing eyes. Anyway he seemed like an even-tempered person. Not so Carly, who I had contact with on numerous occasions in Pai over the last six months or so.

There's a short forum thread on Leo at www.clubzone.com, doesn't reveal much.

Another photo of Leo, reportedly take six years ago:

Source

[A_Traveller]

^ Thanks for the response. I hope I'm not putting too many words in your mouth by suggesting average build {for a North American} and average height, 5'10" {again for a North American}.

Regards

[sabaijai]

^ Thanks for the response. I hope I'm not putting too many words in your mouth by suggesting average build {for a North American} and average height, 5'10" {again for a North American}.

Regards

I'm sure Danielle could be more specific. But that sounds about right, except I would add 'stocky', as I wrote above.

[Danielle]

Well I don't exactly have his height in feet and inches memorized, but I'm a fairly short person at 5'3" and he never seemed to tower over me.

edit: As for the bodybuilder thing, definitely not.

Edited February 6, 2008 by Danielle

[Claymore]

I've not seen Andrew here in Pai, and we know each other (he used to phone a colleague in CM every so often asking 'Any dead Brits?' and we met on another high-profile murder case in Thailand seven years ago), so am a bit surprised I've not bumped into him at the usual places one would expect to see a reporter on this case. Nor have any of my contacts mentioned seeing him. But Pai is pretty crowded this weekend, he could easily slip around unnoticed.

Just off the phone. He laughed when I read this to him. I think he uses Thai contacts up there. Says the expression was not 'Any dead Brits?' but 'Any Brits in the sh_t!" Says that judging by your Avatar you might be going to pieces. But says at least you will know he was right about Kirsty Jones! Keep on strumming.

Right about Kirsty Jones? I hadn't realised Andrew Drummond had solved the case, or that it had been solved at all. If so, my congratulations to you, or rather, to Mr Drummond.

My informant confirms the refrain was 'Any dead Brits?', alternating with the other phrase.

Enjoy Chinese New Year

Thanks for that. Been off this web for a while. Arkady hitting the nail constantly again. AD says by the way you failed the test on two points and dont expect to see him at the usual places. Surpised that you have so close connection to Pai u have not spotted the obvious.

Leo Del Pinto is 5ft 8', considerably shorter than Carly.

Also believes your one way campaign to discredit Carly Reisig may look a bit silly at the end of the day and totally irrelevant.

Whatever happens dont expect to read truth in the Pai Post.

Message to Danielle. Pse take 24 hour break from this site. The solution to this case is in the bullet wounds.

[A_Traveller]

Then your suggestion is? Some kind of procedural move?

As far as I can see sabaijai has acted primarily as a poster here, and pointed out the blindingly obvious, if you were on line and saw some of the disappeared posts, which provided context for the quote.

Regards

[Arkady]

The police guy was at the shooting because of the victims group behavior and it was not at the noodle stand

but as one reprot was made, that noodle stand persons complaint of them fighting. I am sure the police guy

did not wait around there to attack them. I am not saying the police guy is not guilty of murder but it sure

does seem like he may of been provoked at the least, and even attacked may be a possibility.

Uthai did, indeed, claim that he was attacked by both victims and bent double across a motorbike, although he didn't seem to sustain any injuries apart from the tiny scratch to his elbow which was not necessarily sustained during the incident. If he was in fact attacked and in genuine fear of his life, so as to justify drawing his weapon, why did he come out with the implausible story of the three accidental discharges and flee the scene? Why didn't he stay and explain to his colleagues what happened, if he really had to act in self defense? I think all the discussion of Carly's prior behavior in Pai, drugs, tatoos, long hair etc is so much irrelevant noise. What matters is what actually happened in those few minutes and we would like to find that out and hopefully see justice done. We are not considering Carly for membership of the Royal Bangkok Sports Club or determining what look is chic this year in Pai for the Thailand Tatler.

[Claymore]

^ Thanks for the response. I hope I'm not putting too many words in your mouth by suggesting average build {for a North American} and average height, 5'10" {again for a North American}.

Regards

I'm sure Danielle could be more specific. But that sounds about right, except I would add 'stocky', as I wrote above.

Not according to the post mortem pic

[Khun ?]

Being involved in, is it, 3 public altercations in short time and the last one ends in a needless death not worthy of

being considered a likely cause of the incident. In her own words it seems one of her stories is someone just come

up and punched her in the face and shot one of the 3 of her boyfriends. Seems everyone of her boyfriends some how

ended up in a in public ruckus. I do not know whether to consider it the dumb bleach blond luck of it all, or that she was twice the size of the local populace made her invincible or just dumb luck and coincidental.... I sure am open for reasonable explinations of this recent spate of bad luck that seem to follow her. Maybe in a manly way Uthai was in the run for #4, could this be the real unseen reason for what happened? Run off or kill the competition!

Believe little of what you see and not much of what you hear!!!!

[DamianMavis]

Being involved in, is it, 3 public altercations in short time and the last one ends in a needless death not worthy of

being considered a likely cause of the incident. In her own words it seems one of her stories is someone just come

up and punched her in the face and shot one of the 3 of her boyfriends. Seems everyone of her boyfriends some how

ended up in a in public ruckus. I do not know whether to consider it the dumb bleach blond luck of it all, or that she was twice the size of the local populace made her invincible or just dumb luck and coincidental.... I sure am open for reasonable explinations of this recent spate of bad luck that seem to follow her. Maybe in a manly way Uthai was in the run for #4, could this be the real unseen reason for what happened? Run off or kill the competition!

Believe little of what you see and not much of what you hear!!!!

What? Are you writing a fiction novel? People that actually want information really dont need your stories so can you please stop? Im being sincere here, making up stories about a possible harem of men fighting to the death over Carly is really not doing anyone any good.

Damian

[A_Traveller]

Responding to the quote, in this train of thought, and seeing some of the posts I would take the view by and large that the weeding was appropriate, though I don't know for example, if sabaijai was directly responsible for this. Perhaps a clarification would however, in this situation be in order.

One issue here is that this is a internet forum and people bring to it their knowledge, skills, prejudices, and assumptions. If I look at some contributors here, it's clear to me that they have an agenda to push, be it 'mad dog policing', or 'culturally insensitive individuals'.

So far I've read nothing here which changes my original view point that a police officer either on or off-duty should be held to a higher standard of discipline than a civilian, and that thus far no conclusive evidence has been shown herein to suggest that the officer met that requirement. /edit I would add that I have still not seen any evidence that the officer effectively identified himself as a policeman to the couple, and still wonder if they knew that to be the case. After all if they did not, the struggle for the gun, if that is what happened, takes on a different perspective, doesn't it? //

Further there has been considerable effort expended by those who wish to direct attention away from that albeit simple point onto spurious matters, or misdirection by lose use of facts, such as the victims stature, or level of alleged intoxication, or even an alleged pregnancy.

To borrow a media cliché 'The truth is out there', it is to be hoped that it is ultimately found and served here, though I understand those who doubt that it will be in this tragic case.

Regards

/edit noted above

Edited February 6, 2008 by A_Traveller

[sabaijai]

I've not seen Andrew here in Pai, and we know each other (he used to phone a colleague in CM every so often asking 'Any dead Brits?' and we met on another high-profile murder case in Thailand seven years ago), so am a bit surprised I've not bumped into him at the usual places one would expect to see a reporter on this case. Nor have any of my contacts mentioned seeing him. But Pai is pretty crowded this weekend, he could easily slip around unnoticed.

Just off the phone. He laughed when I read this to him. I think he uses Thai contacts up there. Says the expression was not 'Any dead Brits?' but 'Any Brits in the sh_t!" Says that judging by your Avatar you might be going to pieces. But says at least you will know he was right about Kirsty Jones! Keep on strumming.

Right about Kirsty Jones? I hadn't realised Andrew Drummond had solved the case, or that it had been solved at all. If so, my congratulations to you, or rather, to Mr Drummond.

My informant confirms the refrain was 'Any dead Brits?', alternating with the other phrase.

Enjoy Chinese New Year

Thanks for that. Been off this web for a while. Arkady hitting the nail constantly again. AD says by the way you failed the test on two points and dont expect to see him at the usual places. Surpised that you have so close connection to Pai u have not spotted the obvious.

Leo Del Pinto is 5ft 8', considerably shorter than Carly.

Also believes your one way campaign to discredit Carly Reisig may look a bit silly at the end of the day and totally irrelevant.

Whatever happens dont expect to read truth in the Pai Post.

Message to Danielle. Pse take 24 hour break from this site. The solution to this case is in the bullet wounds.

Claymore, once again you're positing yourself and Andrew Drummond as the ultimate authorities on the facts of this case. Why is that? Do you and Drummond have some special insight or access that no one else does? If so, let's hear it. Otherwise yours is just another viewpoint, no more valid than anyone else's here.

'The solution to this case is in the bullet wounds.' Quite a pronouncement. A rhetorical solution perhaps, but not necessarily a judicial one. Still, whatever the forensics say about the wounds, they say nothing about the context for the tragedy, and many observers find that of equal relevance. For casket-chasing journalism, of course, it won't pay the bills.

And what about the Jones case? In what way was Drummond 'right' about it? Still waiting for an answer there. I assume it would be another 'solution' without any actual adjudication?

[sabaijai]

^ Thanks for the response. I hope I'm not putting too many words in your mouth by suggesting average build {for a North American} and average height, 5'10" {again for a North American}.

Regards

I'm sure Danielle could be more specific. But that sounds about right, except I would add 'stocky', as I wrote above.

Not according to the post mortem pic

But you never met him, correct? I stand by my description, 'stocky'. Doesn't translate as 'bodybuilder' but to a Thai who knows?

[Claymore]

I've not seen Andrew here in Pai, and we know each other (he used to phone a colleague in CM every so often asking 'Any dead Brits?' and we met on another high-profile murder case in Thailand seven years ago), so am a bit surprised I've not bumped into him at the usual places one would expect to see a reporter on this case. Nor have any of my contacts mentioned seeing him. But Pai is pretty crowded this weekend, he could easily slip around unnoticed.

Just off the phone. He laughed when I read this to him. I think he uses Thai contacts up there. Says the expression was not 'Any dead Brits?' but 'Any Brits in the sh_t!" Says that judging by your Avatar you might be going to pieces. But says at least you will know he was right about Kirsty Jones! Keep on strumming.

Right about Kirsty Jones? I hadn't realised Andrew Drummond had solved the case, or that it had been solved at all. If so, my congratulations to you, or rather, to Mr Drummond.

My informant confirms the refrain was 'Any dead Brits?', alternating with the other phrase.

Enjoy Chinese New Year

Thanks for that. Been off this web for a while. Arkady hitting the nail constantly again. AD says by the way you failed the test on two points and dont expect to see him at the usual places. Surpised that you have so close connection to Pai u have not spotted the obvious.

Leo Del Pinto is 5ft 8', considerably shorter than Carly.

Also believes your one way campaign to discredit Carly Reisig may look a bit silly at the end of the day and totally irrelevant.

Whatever happens dont expect to read truth in the Pai Post.

Message to Danielle. Pse take 24 hour break from this site. The solution to this case is in the bullet wounds.

Claymore, once again you're positing yourself and Andrew Drummond as the ultimate authorities on the facts of this case. Why is that? Do you and Drummond have some special insight or access that no one else does? If so, let's hear it. Otherwise yours is just another viewpoint, no more valid than anyone else's here.

'The solution to this case is in the bullet wounds.' Quite a pronouncement. A rhetorical solution perhaps, but not necessarily a judicial one. Still, whatever the forensics say about the wounds, they say nothing about the context for the tragedy, and many observers find that of equal relevance. For casket-chasing journalism, of course, it won't pay the bills.

And what about the Jones case? In what way was Drummond 'right' about it? Still waiting for an answer there. I assume it would be another 'solution' without any actual adjudication?

Yes. Drummond does have some authority on this case and has been in regular contact as I haved pointed out.

He has been with with the Human Rights Commissioner Surasee Kosolnavin and DSI all week. The hints I have made could not have been clearer

The remark about the bullet wounds WILL be a judicial one. Andrew Drummond has also been with Dr. Pornthip and was specifically invited into this investigation.

Your very prejudicial context for the tragedy -that it was all Reising's fault - is also not true if witnesses now are to be believed.

In the Jones case Thai police falsely arrested a Karen hill guide for the murder. The torture of the hill tribe guide and the attempt at procuring sperm from him resulted in protest and his direct release. But of course you would know that. He also produced the payment dockets with showed some £12,000 had been sent to enable Andrew Gill to get out of custody. Of course you would know that too.

Carly is currently with Drummond and the DSI. Your reference to casket chasing journalism is crass. Its a case of real journalism against mere blogging.

[brahmburgers]

I've read the first half of the many posts on this topic, and many of the subsequent ones. It appears now as though there are farang actively involved with the investigation. Are they involved as individuals (writing books or investigative reporters, or....?) or are the farang involved in an official capacity?

I don't say that facetiously, but merely am curious as to how things are progressing with the investigation. Is Ms Porntip involved with forensics? Personally, I would welcome official involvement of objective farang, and also plus Ms Porntip - as I have little faith in the Thai authorities abilities in doing an objective or professional investigation.

It's good to hear a mention of the Jones case from a few years ago in C.Mai - in that sense that she hasn't been forgotten. It's too easy to cop a blase or innured attitude about tourists murders - as they happen often - and all too often people forget the earlier ones - when new ones pop up. Murderers see that trend also, and might take comfort in knowing how easy it is to get away with murder in Thailand - especially if they're cops or otherwise well-connected.