Two Tourists In Pai Shot By A Police Officer

[invalidusername]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2008/02/15/delpinto

- CBC News

Calgarian's death needs independent probe, says Thai commission

Last Updated: Friday, February 15, 2008 | 9:46 AM MT

I have just come back to Bangkok from Krabi and Phi Phi and the rest. But my boyfriend and I were in Pai on the night/morning Leo del Pinto was killed. Myself and my boyfriend and a Dutch couple saw what happened or a a lot of it after the first shot. We left Pai the same morning. We have missed all this news but someone we met last night said that if we contacted here we could pass on information which might help Leo. Someone here who has contact with the Human Rights people. We do not want to talk direct initially. Maybe what we saw has been witnessed already. But we want to help. But we are leaving Thailand on Tuesday. Can u get a message thru for us. Is this u?

somebody (AD?) who knows the right people to call help these people ASAP.

[Boo]

Sweetpat, I think you can find contact details for AD here.

Please do make a statement sa any information will hep Leos family.

[seonai]

Sweetpat Andrew just called me and asked that you talk to him before talking to the police - he is worried for your safety. Please contact him via the link Boo gave

[seonai]

Okay he's just told me he can contact you direct so he's off to sleep

[SweetPat]

Okay he's just told me he can contact you direct so he's off to sleep

thank u both

[Danielle]

Okay he's just told me he can contact you direct so he's off to sleep

thank u both

Thank you.

[kat]

Nice one. Good job everyone.

[Andiamo]

Seconded! Well done to all for their coordination. Nice to see how efficient Thai Visa is AND how helpful fellow posters are! Kudos.

The more "independent' statements the better IMO.

[Boo]

offensive post removed, if you have nothing of value to add please don't attack new posters.

[brahmburgers]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2008/02/15/delpinto

- CBC News

Calgarian's death needs independent probe, says Thai commission

Last Updated: Friday, February 15, 2008 | 9:46 AM MT

I have just come back to Bangkok from Krabi and Phi Phi and the rest. But my boyfriend and I were in Pai on the night/morning Leo del Pinto was killed. Myself and my boyfriend and a Dutch couple saw what happened or a a lot of it after the first shot. We left Pai the same morning. We have missed all this news but someone we met last night said that if we contacted here we could pass on information which might help Leo. Someone here who has contact with the Human Rights people. We do not want to talk direct initially. Maybe what we saw has been witnessed already. But we want to help. But we are leaving Thailand on Tuesday. Can u get a message thru for us. Is this u?

By all means - i would be a good service for you and your boyfriend to make the added effort to file a formal witness report with the Thai police. It won't be comfortable, but it's an important thing to do - especially for Leo's family. Once you've left Thailand, you immediatly fade to insignificance on this issue. When you go to the police dept. to make your formal statement, get a Thai attorney or Human Righs official to accompany if possible. Bring your passport.

[Danielle]

Thai police under fire in killing

Rights report at odds with officer's story

Joel Kom, Calgary Herald

Published: Tuesday, February 19, 2008Claims by Thai police that a Calgarian was accidentally shot to death by an off-duty officer don't jibe with witness testimony and a pathologist's examination, a report from the country's human rights commission said.

The findings put the police at odds with independent information, the commission's investigation found, making it "credible that there has been a violation of human rights by state officers in the judicial system."

"Facts from the testimony of witnesses at court and the facts from the (police) investigation were in conflict," concluded the report, released late last week.

Leo Del Pinto, 25, was fatally shot in the rural town of Pai after a fight that came to involve the off-duty officer.

Sgt. Uthai Dechawiwat was charged with premeditated murder and attempted murder, but has insisted Del Pinto attacked him and the shooting was an accident.

Carly Reisig, a friend of Del Pinto's who was also shot, has said neither she nor Del Pinto did anything to provoke the officer.

The commission took up the case after "special interest" from the Canadian Embassy and Canadian media.

Del Pinto's father, Ernie, said Monday the report adds more weight to his belief his son did nothing wrong.

"It tells me the police are covering up for each other," he said.

"This man should go to prison for what he did."

One thing has always been clear: Dechawiwat shot Del Pinto twice. How it got to that point is where the discrepancies begin.

Dechawiwat has said he attempted to stop a fight between Reisig and Del Pinto, only to have both of them turn on him. When he drew his gun, Del Pinto tried to wrestle the gun away from him -- but caused the gun to go off, the officer said.

Dechawiwat also said the bullet that killed Del Pinto was the same one that hit Reisig, who's from Chilliwack, B.C.

But the commission's report said the claim of one bullet doesn't hold up -- Del Pinto was shot twice, while Reisig was shot once.

An anonymous witness testified to the commission the whole incident began when Reisig's boyfriend drove up to her and Del Pinto as the two were walking in the street in the early hours of Jan. 6.

When Reisig found out her boyfriend hadn't fed her dog, she slapped him hard on the face three times, the witness said. The boyfriend then punched Reisig, and Del Pinto stepped in to break it up.

A man, who would later be identified as Dechawiwat, came up to the trio with a gun and told them to get down.

The Thai boyfriend got down, Del Pinto put his hands up and Reisig stood up, the witness said.

"The man holding the gun used it to hit Ms. Carly in the face and kicked her in the ribs," the report said. "With Ms. Carly doubled over, he fired a shot at Ms. Carly."

Del Pinto called out, "Stop please," the witness said. The officer walked backwards and tripped on a motorcycle. When Del Pinto gave his hand for the officer to get up, the officer fired a shot and hit Del Pinto in the stomach.

He then fired another shot, hitting Del Pinto in the face.

An autopsy would find the shot in the cheek caused Del Pinto to die immediately.

The witness's testimony closely matches the information Reisig and her boyfriend provided to the commission.

A post-mortem examination by a pathologist, who was the head of the department of forensic medicine at an area university, concluded the shooting's characteristics indicated it was not an accident.

The report ended by recommending the case go to the neutral Department of Special Investigation "for the maximum justice of all parties."

Ernie Del Pinto said the report should push the Canadian government to flag Thailand as a potentially dangerous country.He'll wait to see what Thai authorities do before making his next move, he said, though he vowed to pursue punishment for Dechawiwat.

"I'm going to keep doing this until the day he goes to jail," he said.

Two other Canadians have been shot in the country this year. Calgarian Dale Henry, 48, was shot and killed Feb. 3. His wife is accused of hiring a hitman to kill him.

On Feb. 13, 49-year-old Erik Griffioen of Dundas, Ont., was shot while travelling in a pickup truck with his wife and a tour guide.

[email protected]

© The Calgary Herald 2008

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/story....k=52107&p=1

Edited February 19, 2008 by Danielle

[kat]

Thanks for that Danielle. Drummond also has The Human Rights Report of Feb. 17th on his website.

http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2008/02/17/...rt-feb-17-2008/

[Arkady]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2008/02/15/delpinto

- CBC News

Calgarian's death needs independent probe, says Thai commission

Last Updated: Friday, February 15, 2008 | 9:46 AM MT

I have just come back to Bangkok from Krabi and Phi Phi and the rest. But my boyfriend and I were in Pai on the night/morning Leo del Pinto was killed. Myself and my boyfriend and a Dutch couple saw what happened or a a lot of it after the first shot. We left Pai the same morning. We have missed all this news but someone we met last night said that if we contacted here we could pass on information which might help Leo. Someone here who has contact with the Human Rights people. We do not want to talk direct initially. Maybe what we saw has been witnessed already. But we want to help. But we are leaving Thailand on Tuesday. Can u get a message thru for us. Is this u?

By all means - i would be a good service for you and your boyfriend to make the added effort to file a formal witness report with the Thai police. It won't be comfortable, but it's an important thing to do - especially for Leo's family. Once you've left Thailand, you immediatly fade to insignificance on this issue. When you go to the police dept. to make your formal statement, get a Thai attorney or Human Righs official to accompany if possible. Bring your passport.

Seems like Sweatpat must have left Thailand yesterday. I wonder if anything came of this.

[Arkady]

Thai police under fire in killing

Rights report at odds with officer's story

Joel Kom, Calgary Herald

Published: Tuesday, February 19, 2008Claims by Thai police that a Calgarian was accidentally shot to death by an off-duty officer don't jibe with witness testimony and a pathologist's examination, a report from the country's human rights commission said.

The findings put the police at odds with independent information, the commission's investigation found, making it "credible that there has been a violation of human rights by state officers in the judicial system."

"Facts from the testimony of witnesses at court and the facts from the (police) investigation were in conflict," concluded the report, released late last week.

Leo Del Pinto, 25, was fatally shot in the rural town of Pai after a fight that came to involve the off-duty officer.

Sgt. Uthai Dechawiwat was charged with premeditated murder and attempted murder, but has insisted Del Pinto attacked him and the shooting was an accident.

Carly Reisig, a friend of Del Pinto's who was also shot, has said neither she nor Del Pinto did anything to provoke the officer.

The commission took up the case after "special interest" from the Canadian Embassy and Canadian media.

Del Pinto's father, Ernie, said Monday the report adds more weight to his belief his son did nothing wrong.

"It tells me the police are covering up for each other," he said.

"This man should go to prison for what he did."

One thing has always been clear: Dechawiwat shot Del Pinto twice. How it got to that point is where the discrepancies begin.

Dechawiwat has said he attempted to stop a fight between Reisig and Del Pinto, only to have both of them turn on him. When he drew his gun, Del Pinto tried to wrestle the gun away from him -- but caused the gun to go off, the officer said.

Dechawiwat also said the bullet that killed Del Pinto was the same one that hit Reisig, who's from Chilliwack, B.C.

But the commission's report said the claim of one bullet doesn't hold up -- Del Pinto was shot twice, while Reisig was shot once.

An anonymous witness testified to the commission the whole incident began when Reisig's boyfriend drove up to her and Del Pinto as the two were walking in the street in the early hours of Jan. 6.

When Reisig found out her boyfriend hadn't fed her dog, she slapped him hard on the face three times, the witness said. The boyfriend then punched Reisig, and Del Pinto stepped in to break it up.

A man, who would later be identified as Dechawiwat, came up to the trio with a gun and told them to get down.

The Thai boyfriend got down, Del Pinto put his hands up and Reisig stood up, the witness said.

"The man holding the gun used it to hit Ms. Carly in the face and kicked her in the ribs," the report said. "With Ms. Carly doubled over, he fired a shot at Ms. Carly."

Del Pinto called out, "Stop please," the witness said. The officer walked backwards and tripped on a motorcycle. When Del Pinto gave his hand for the officer to get up, the officer fired a shot and hit Del Pinto in the stomach.

He then fired another shot, hitting Del Pinto in the face.

An autopsy would find the shot in the cheek caused Del Pinto to die immediately.

The witness's testimony closely matches the information Reisig and her boyfriend provided to the commission.

A post-mortem examination by a pathologist, who was the head of the department of forensic medicine at an area university, concluded the shooting's characteristics indicated it was not an accident.

The report ended by recommending the case go to the neutral Department of Special Investigation "for the maximum justice of all parties."

Ernie Del Pinto said the report should push the Canadian government to flag Thailand as a potentially dangerous country.He'll wait to see what Thai authorities do before making his next move, he said, though he vowed to pursue punishment for Dechawiwat.

"I'm going to keep doing this until the day he goes to jail," he said.

Two other Canadians have been shot in the country this year. Calgarian Dale Henry, 48, was shot and killed Feb. 3. His wife is accused of hiring a hitman to kill him.

On Feb. 13, 49-year-old Erik Griffioen of Dundas, Ont., was shot while travelling in a pickup truck with his wife and a tour guide.

[email protected]

© The Calgary Herald 2008

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/story....k=52107&p=1

I will probably come under attack from the apologists for not giving the Pai police the benefit of the doubt but this account of what happened seems to be the most credible so far. Thanks Danielle. Fingers crossed that the NHRC and DSI will be allowed do their job without interference and that justice will prevail for once in a police attrocity case.

[invalidusername]

I think the main issue with this case is not the fact that a person got shot. That is sad and unfortunate and there is nothing we can do about this at this point.

The main issue and source of debate is that the Pai Police did not take the facts into account during their investigation, just making up whatever lies came to their mind at the time.

the scary part is that they were expecting to get away with it, because they do this same thing every single day (all the Police in LOS)

Its only the extreme anomaly that a Falang was involved AND somehow the right people got tapped that anything is being doine about this.

It seems that the DSI is what we as westerners would consider a police force investagting and reporting on facts, whereas the offical police are nothing more than criminals in uniform.

Unofortunally it still yet remains if anything will come of this, becuase all that has to happen is one big-wig say 'STOP' and then it all stops and all things are forgotten.

What our purpose is as the international community is to continue to pressure and prove to them that if they attempt to stop this investigation that they will be suffciently embarssed and lose face so they have no choice but to follow through. Besides it would take a very large bribe to pay off this one. Have to pay better than Canada.

[pickel]

"Carly Reisig, a friend of Del Pinto's who was also shot, has said neither she nor Del Pinto did anything to provoke the officer."

I would consider rolling around on the ground fighting a Thai man, then when a policeman comes, points a gun at you and tells you to get down, you stand up and slap the gun away, a provocation.

I don't believe they deserved to be shot, and I know the police are making their facts up, but this quote made me scratch my head.

[kat]

I agree that I find almost all of her actions objectionable, even personal ones such as slapping a companion, but, did a policeman come? The guys was out of uniform, most likely did not identify himself as a police officer, and was drunk. He seemed to be easily provoked, so one has to wonder if simply kneeling on the floor would've been sufficient not to be murdered and maimed.

Subduing rowdy drunks and domestic squabbles should be basic, not attempted double murder.

[Arkady]

I think the main issue with this case is not the fact that a person got shot. That is sad and unfortunate and there is nothing we can do about this at this point.

The main issue and source of debate is that the Pai Police did not take the facts into account during their investigation, just making up whatever lies came to their mind at the time.

the scary part is that they were expecting to get away with it, because they do this same thing every single day (all the Police in LOS)

Its only the extreme anomaly that a Falang was involved AND somehow the right people got tapped that anything is being doine about this.

It seems that the DSI is what we as westerners would consider a police force investagting and reporting on facts, whereas the offical police are nothing more than criminals in uniform.

Unofortunally it still yet remains if anything will come of this, becuase all that has to happen is one big-wig say 'STOP' and then it all stops and all things are forgotten.

What our purpose is as the international community is to continue to pressure and prove to them that if they attempt to stop this investigation that they will be suffciently embarssed and lose face so they have no choice but to follow through. Besides it would take a very large bribe to pay off this one. Have to pay better than Canada.

You are right. What the Pai police did to try to cover up a colleague's crime is standard operating procedure for police around the country and they would not normally encounter any difficulties. The weakness on their side, which they are well aware of is, is that Carly survived and Uthai has no doubt been sharply criticized for his inefficiency in this respect. As you say, this one is far from in the bag. The DSI was unable to solve the Kirsty Jones case, as the Chiang Mai police stonewalled them successfully for years. The new ministers are very unpredictable and could easily go either way - try to show the police who's boss or try to ingratiate themselves with them. The interior minister's recent comments that he was an eye witness to the "fact" that the Thammasat massacre in 1976 was started by a policeman's gun going off by accident are not encouraging.

[bryangriffin]

I think the main issue with this case is not the fact that a person got shot. That is sad and unfortunate and there is nothing we can do about this at this point.

The main issue and source of debate is that the Pai Police did not take the facts into account during their investigation, just making up whatever lies came to their mind at the time.

the scary part is that they were expecting to get away with it, because they do this same thing every single day (all the Police in LOS)

Its only the extreme anomaly that a Falang was involved AND somehow the right people got tapped that anything is being doine about this.

It seems that the DSI is what we as westerners would consider a police force investagting and reporting on facts, whereas the offical police are nothing more than criminals in uniform.

Unofortunally it still yet remains if anything will come of this, becuase all that has to happen is one big-wig say 'STOP' and then it all stops and all things are forgotten.

What our purpose is as the international community is to continue to pressure and prove to them that if they attempt to stop this investigation that they will be suffciently embarssed and lose face so they have no choice but to follow through. Besides it would take a very large bribe to pay off this one. Have to pay better than Canada.

You are right. What the Pai police did to try to cover up a colleague's crime is standard operating procedure for police around the country and they would not normally encounter any difficulties. The weakness on their side, which they are well aware of is, is that Carly survived and Uthai has no doubt been sharply criticized for his inefficiency in this respect. As you say, this one is far from in the bag. The DSI was unable to solve the Kirsty Jones case, as the Chiang Mai police stonewalled them successfully for years. The new ministers are very unpredictable and could easily go either way - try to show the police who's boss or try to ingratiate themselves with them. The interior minister's recent comments that he was an eye witness to the "fact" that the Thammasat massacre in 1976 was started by a policeman's gun going off by accident are not encouraging.

Maybe. But I think there will be a big backlash on this one from Canada if justice is not seen to be done. Due to the publicity and the Human Rights Reports the full text is on www.andrew-drummond.com it is clear there there is strong influence from the media and Canadian Embassy

[Briggsy]

Bryan, I think, judging from experience there will be very little pressure from the Thai media who both practise self-censorship, decide what stories to go with based primarily on what they are told in official press releases and generally do not follow up stories.

There may be some follow-up in the Canadian press but it is difficult to say how, indirectly, that would affect the police in Thailand.

[bryangriffin]

Bryan, I think, judging from experience there will be very little pressure from the Thai media who both practise self-censorship, decide what stories to go with based primarily on what they are told in official press releases and generally do not follow up stories.

There may be some follow-up in the Canadian press but it is difficult to say how, indirectly, that would affect the police in Thailand.

Sure. Forget about the Thai media. The Thai gov is much more worried about the foreign media on this one and this story has been all over CBC, The Globe and Mail and at least a dozen other Canadian papers - reported by foreign journalists. And there is no way the father is going to forget. Google Justice for Leo

[tattoodrob]

I agree that I find almost all of her actions objectionable, even personal ones such as slapping a companion, but, did a policeman come? The guys was out of uniform, most likely did not identify himself as a police officer, and was drunk. He seemed to be easily provoked, so one has to wonder if simply kneeling on the floor would've been sufficient not to be murdered and maimed.

Subduing rowdy drunks and domestic squabbles should be basic, not attempted double murder.

totally agree...shes no angel but doesnt deserve to be murdered over a domestic dispute.......most cops would have ignored a domestic dispute between 2 thais.the cop was drunk and off duty/out of uniform therefore shouldnt have intervened at all ...im pretty sure it would have worked out ok if he hadnt come along.if he wasnt drunk then im sure he would not have shot them but thats no excuse as he was drunk and did the wrong thing so needs to be punished and hopefully will if pressure kept on......canada is not a small country and im sure if a lot smaller unknown country was involved then might be swept under more easily.

the story that has come out now seems to be the most believable....the cop is never gonna tell the truth .....as most criminals wont....but it is a shame that they(cops) would try to cover this up,i expect they thought it would die down fairly quickly and then be forgot about as usual.the way its going i think he wont get away with it........its another step forward if only a small step on a long journey.

[bryangriffin]

I agree that I find almost all of her actions objectionable, even personal ones such as slapping a companion, but, did a policeman come? The guys was out of uniform, most likely did not identify himself as a police officer, and was drunk. He seemed to be easily provoked, so one has to wonder if simply kneeling on the floor would've been sufficient not to be murdered and maimed.

Subduing rowdy drunks and domestic squabbles should be basic, not attempted double murder.

totally agree...shes no angel but doesnt deserve to be murdered over a domestic dispute.......most cops would have ignored a domestic dispute between 2 thais.the cop was drunk and off duty/out of uniform therefore shouldnt have intervened at all ...im pretty sure it would have worked out ok if he hadnt come along.if he wasnt drunk then im sure he would not have shot them but thats no excuse as he was drunk and did the wrong thing so needs to be punished and hopefully will if pressure kept on......canada is not a small country and im sure if a lot smaller unknown country was involved then might be swept under more easily.

the story that has come out now seems to be the most believable....the cop is never gonna tell the truth .....as most criminals wont....but it is a shame that they(cops) would try to cover this up,i expect they thought it would die down fairly quickly and then be forgot about as usual.the way its going i think he wont get away with it........its another step forward if only a small step on a long journey.

Exactly. It was murder by police and looking back at this massive thread it seems to have taken 75 pages and thousands of postings to get there!

[Tony Clifton]

I agree that I find almost all of her actions objectionable, even personal ones such as slapping a companion, but, did a policeman come? The guys was out of uniform, most likely did not identify himself as a police officer, and was drunk. He seemed to be easily provoked, so one has to wonder if simply kneeling on the floor would've been sufficient not to be murdered and maimed.

Subduing rowdy drunks and domestic squabbles should be basic, not attempted double murder.

totally agree...shes no angel but doesnt deserve to be murdered over a domestic dispute.......most cops would have ignored a domestic dispute between 2 thais.the cop was drunk and off duty/out of uniform therefore shouldnt have intervened at all ...im pretty sure it would have worked out ok if he hadnt come along.if he wasnt drunk then im sure he would not have shot them but thats no excuse as he was drunk and did the wrong thing so needs to be punished and hopefully will if pressure kept on......canada is not a small country and im sure if a lot smaller unknown country was involved then might be swept under more easily.

the story that has come out now seems to be the most believable....the cop is never gonna tell the truth .....as most criminals wont....but it is a shame that they(cops) would try to cover this up,i expect they thought it would die down fairly quickly and then be forgot about as usual.the way its going i think he wont get away with it........its another step forward if only a small step on a long journey.

Exactly. It was murder by police and looking back at this massive thread it seems to have taken 75 pages and thousands of postings to get there!

Why all the doubt in the first place?

If you were to make a movie starring the boys in brown and included every f#$5 up and kind of crimes they are known to have committed in the last 5 years only, people would say there was a lot of exaggeration in the movie. Still, most know they've taken part in multiple hostage takings, murders, extortion, human trafficking, stolen vehicle, underground lottery, gambling dens, bribes, and on and on. They are quick to turn down a total reform when it is proposed, status quo is what they like and want.

Edited February 21, 2008 by Tony Clifton

[keyman]

Canada praises Thai efforts

Probe may solve discrepancy over Calgarian's death

Joel Kom, Calgary Herald

Published: Thursday, February 21, 2008

The Canadian government is glad Thailand's human rights commission and a special investigative unit are looking at the case of Calgarian Leo Del Pinto, says a Foreign Affairs spokesman. The reaction comes on the heels of a report, released late last week by the commission, that casts doubt on claims by Thai police that Del Pinto's shooting by an off-duty police officer was an accident.

Witness testimony and a pathologist's examination were at odds with the police theory, and a neutral investigative unit should do its own analysis, the report concluded. "The involvement of Thailand's human rights commission and the Department of Special Investigation is a positive development," said Bernard Nguyen, a Foreign Affairs Department spokesman.

Del Pinto, 25, was fatally shot in the rural town of Pai in January after a fight that came to involve the off-duty officer. Sgt. Uthai Dechawiwat was charged with premeditated murder and attempted murder, but he has insisted Del Pinto attacked him and the shooting was an accident. Carly Reisig, who was also shot, has said neither she nor her friend Del Pinto did anything to provoke the officer.

The commission took up the case after "special interest" from the Canadian government and Canadian media. Helena Guergis, Canada's secretary of state for foreign affairs and international trade, has written twice to Thai authorities to ask for a thorough and transparent investigation, Nguyen said. Senior Canadian officials in both Ottawa and the Thai capital of Bangkok have raised similar concerns with their Thai counterparts, Nguyen said.

Dechawiwat has said he attempted to stop a fight between Reisig and Del Pinto only to have both of them turn on him. When he drew his gun, Del Pinto tried to wrestle it away from him -- but this caused the firearm to go off, the officer said. But witness testimony corroborated Reisig's version of events, that Dechawiwat hit Reisig in the face with his gun, kicked her in the ribs and then shot her when he intervened in a fight between Reisig and her Thai boyfriend. Dechawiwat shot Del Pinto after the Calgarian offered to help the fallen officer, who had tripped over a motorcycle, the witness said. A pathologist who examined Del Pinto's body said the shooting didn't show signs of being an accident.

Nguyen said the Canadian government has no plans to update its warning to Canadian travellers to Thailand, saying it already recommends people be "very cautious" when visiting the country. Two other Canadians have been shot in the country this year. Calgarian Dale Henry, 48, was killed Feb. 3. His wife is accused of hiring a hitman to kill him.

On Feb. 13, Erik Griffioen of Dundas, Ont., was shot while travelling in an open-sided taxi with his wife and a tour guide. The 49-year-old was shot in the back. Local police said Griffioen was hit by a hunter's stray bullet. He remains in the intensive care unit of a hospital in Chiang Mai, north of Bangkok.

[email protected]

[sabaijai]

I agree that I find almost all of her actions objectionable, even personal ones such as slapping a companion, but, did a policeman come? The guys was out of uniform, most likely did not identify himself as a police officer, and was drunk. He seemed to be easily provoked, so one has to wonder if simply kneeling on the floor would've been sufficient not to be murdered and maimed.

Subduing rowdy drunks and domestic squabbles should be basic, not attempted double murder.

totally agree...shes no angel but doesnt deserve to be murdered over a domestic dispute.......most cops would have ignored a domestic dispute between 2 thais.the cop was drunk and off duty/out of uniform therefore shouldnt have intervened at all ...im pretty sure it would have worked out ok if he hadnt come along.if he wasnt drunk then im sure he would not have shot them but thats no excuse as he was drunk and did the wrong thing so needs to be punished and hopefully will if pressure kept on......canada is not a small country and im sure if a lot smaller unknown country was involved then might be swept under more easily.

the story that has come out now seems to be the most believable....the cop is never gonna tell the truth .....as most criminals wont....but it is a shame that they(cops) would try to cover this up,i expect they thought it would die down fairly quickly and then be forgot about as usual.the way its going i think he wont get away with it........its another step forward if only a small step on a long journey.

Exactly. It was murder by police and looking back at this massive thread it seems to have taken 75 pages and thousands of postings to get there!

I don't recall any member here saying it wasn't a murder.

On the other hand just because Reisig changed her story (for the 3rd or 4th time) to match that of anonymous witnesses, after self-confessed coaching by the DSI, doesn't mean we have the final facts.

The existence of the crime is undisputed; it's the manner in which the crime occurred that may be further clarified. Or not.

[bryangriffin]

I agree that I find almost all of her actions objectionable, even personal ones such as slapping a companion, but, did a policeman come? The guys was out of uniform, most likely did not identify himself as a police officer, and was drunk. He seemed to be easily provoked, so one has to wonder if simply kneeling on the floor would've been sufficient not to be murdered and maimed.

Subduing rowdy drunks and domestic squabbles should be basic, not attempted double murder.

totally agree...shes no angel but doesnt deserve to be murdered over a domestic dispute.......most cops would have ignored a domestic dispute between 2 thais.the cop was drunk and off duty/out of uniform therefore shouldnt have intervened at all ...im pretty sure it would have worked out ok if he hadnt come along.if he wasnt drunk then im sure he would not have shot them but thats no excuse as he was drunk and did the wrong thing so needs to be punished and hopefully will if pressure kept on......canada is not a small country and im sure if a lot smaller unknown country was involved then might be swept under more easily.

the story that has come out now seems to be the most believable....the cop is never gonna tell the truth .....as most criminals wont....but it is a shame that they(cops) would try to cover this up,i expect they thought it would die down fairly quickly and then be forgot about as usual.the way its going i think he wont get away with it........its another step forward if only a small step on a long journey.

Exactly. It was murder by police and looking back at this massive thread it seems to have taken 75 pages and thousands of postings to get there!

I don't recall any member here saying it wasn't a murder.

On the other hand just because Reisig changed her story (for the 3rd or 4th time) to match that of anonymous witnesses, after self-confessed coaching by the DSI, doesn't mean we have the final facts.

The existence of the crime is undisputed; it's the manner in which the crime occurred that may be further clarified. Or not.

Oh yes. You are the guy with no commercial interests in Pai, Chiang Mai or Thailand who claimed that Reisig's history had a baring on this case. Now you are accusing the DSI of fitting up the evidence.

I dont believe you on either score or that other poster Stephen Cleary who published in the Nation that this was probably case of mansalughter.

Smell the roses

[sabaijai]

Now you are accusing the DSI of fitting up the evidence.

Source for that notion is Carly herself.

And you're the newbie who has chosen the name of a semi-famous suicidal Qantas pilot as a nick, and have posted only four times, all in this thread. So how do you happen to be an expert on the case?

[bryangriffin]

Now you are accusing the DSI of fitting up the evidence.

Source for that notion is Carly herself.

And you're the newbie who has chosen the name of a semi-famous suicidal Qantas pilot as a nick, and have posted only four times, all in this thread. So how do you happen to be an expert on the case?

Oh really. I thought the source was someone who Carly spoke to in Pai. At least that is your earlier comment.

I joined up to look at this thread after it was brought up in a bar. I'm a semi expert having read now pages 1 to 75, plus all the stuff on CBC, the Canadian papers and the Nation in Bangkok.

As you have this info first hand from Carly no doubt you'll be leaping along to the court to testify or is it a case of 'Its more than my jobs worth'.

Your reference to 'semi-famous suicidal Quantas pilot' is lost on me btw.

[bryangriffin]

Now you are accusing the DSI of fitting up the evidence.

Source for that notion is Carly herself.

And you're the newbie who has chosen the name of a semi-famous suicidal Qantas pilot as a nick, and have posted only four times, all in this thread. So how do you happen to be an expert on the case?

Oh really. I thought the source was someone who Carly spoke to in Pai. At least that is your earlier comment.

I joined up to look at this thread after it was brought up in a bar. I'm a semi expert having read now pages 1 to 75, plus all the stuff on CBC, the Canadian papers and the Nation in Bangkok.

As you have this info first hand from Carly no doubt you'll be leaping along to the court to testify or is it a case of 'Its more than my jobs worth'.

Your reference to 'semi-famous suicidal Quantas pilot' is lost on me btw.

And my last and final point on this thread is this. Two independent witnesses and forensic science have already discredited the police story here. It was clearly made up. It is already established that that Ms C is some sort of 'cookie' I (ie she was figting over a dog) but that is irrelevant to the whole story - that two unarmed innocent people were gunned down by a policeman, who to all intents and purposes was drunk. Sounds like you have some personal issue with this girl.