Phnom Penh Girls Are Evil

[IamMaiC]

today she rings me in sihanouk ville and asks why I accuse her to her friends of stealing my phone and says she is coming down from pp(phone with her) but mentions nothing of where the ###### shes been for 5 days or any major apology..

have her come down to sihanoukville to meet you at somewhere besides your hotel room. when she hands over the phone then tell her goodbye and mean it.

hear hear huski but he won't do it she's a trophy GF a real stunner ya she stunned him alright

[kitty]

This is easy to answer:

She is a whore!

One of her other boyfriends who is not so cheap a Charlie turned up and she went to him

Spend some more money next time!!

you know - I think your probably right. But ###### its hard to beleive that anyone can be that heartless. She really hurt me. tip for people in future - if things are 'seeming serious' then ask for id card and run like ###### if she will not show you!

live and learn - yeh, I've learnt that theres a large number of women that are absolutely ruthless and with no heart. She got me so bad I can't even go to the police about my phone because I still feel for her and can't beleive it was all an act - I think it was real but changed when something better came up.

all I gave was love and that seemed to be enough until some money came along somewhere else.

lesson learnt - love plays a very small part when put up against money.

What pisses me off is that had she not gone I would have started to look after her anyway.

I kept money small to see if she was legit or not and got to the point where I thought she must be.

babe, im sad to say it happens to us girls aswell.

I do think in thailand alot of people can be like this.

I was and am the same as you(as it happened to me),i cannot understand how you can spend all that time with someone then walk away without a care,it truly baffles me.

Maybe one day she will fall in love and due to the way she is,she will lose them...karma and all that

Im going back to thailand and now i wont believe any thai man "really" feels for me as he says. They say the same thing to different people and in fact love no one but themselves.

Dont forget there are also alot of these kind of people all over the world.

Dont take it personally(as hard as that is), it isnt you, its her,its just the way she is.

p.s you won't change her either, only she can do that

[medicinebox]

She may have been murdered for your cellphone.  (You could have ten people murdered in Phnom Penh for the price of a cellphone.)

Bit OTT, but PP is a very dodgey city. The folks there seem to be more sincere, but they also seem to have a very dark side.

I was reading an article in the Phnom Phen post ages ago. It was focusing on youth's and young adults from the post Pol Pot era.

Apparently in that time and afterwards parents became emotionally unattached from their children. Because death and separation was so common place. This left a new generation of people with no emotions and little value for life. Gang rapes and violence are rife.

The Khmer mindset is very disturbing. I remember reading a book where a falang was trying to explain the logic of a Khmer. He used an example wher upon he compared a Vietnamese to a Khmer. He was a good swimmer and beat the Vietnamese guy almost every time. The guy respected him and complimented him. Then he had a race with a Khmer guy. After being beaten the Khmer said "That's ok, because my fathers a policeman, and if I wanted to I could shoot him in the head, then he wouldn't win any more races would he."

So going back to the original topic, 'evil' maybe, 'emotionless' definately.

I will try and dig the article up, pardon the pun.

[medicinebox]

Cambodia's penchant for gang rape grows more common

Elite young men above the law prey on prostitutes seen as less than human

Henry Hoenig, Chronicle Foreign Service

Sunday, October 26, 2003

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Phnom Penh, Cambodia -- Sipping a beer in an Irish pub, Doc looks every bit the privileged young man that he is. Neatly dressed in a buttoned-down shirt and khaki pants, he is polite and quick with a smile, especially when talking about his favorite pastime - gang rape.

Asked how many times he has gang raped a prostitute, the 23-year-old pauses, looks at the ceiling, and grins while venturing a guess: "I don't know. Maybe 100 times."

Whether the number is true or not, Doc is among an alarming number of young Cambodian men in the habit of gang-raping prostitutes, a practice called bauk, which means "plus" in Khmer.

Bauk has been practiced for years, but has become more popular after the government closed down some of the city's most notorious brothels, driving the trade underground. It is especially popular among university students in Cambodia's larger towns, according to Gender and Development for Cambodia (GAD), a nongovernmental organization.

Most participants are from affluent families and are members of youth gangs. Doc, for example, claims family connections in the police department and the National Assembly. These young men are the future leaders of Cambodia.

Bauk is "more common among people with money," said Luke Bearup, author of the recent GAD report. "It's the guys who are connected, who feel invulnerable. It's the rising middle class and upper class who are most involved."

A night out for these young men frequently involves one or two men picking up a prostitute at a park or a brothel and taking her to a guesthouse just outside the city. Once there, the young woman will find up to a dozen more men waiting to have sex with her as a group. She will face a grim choice, if it can be called a choice at all -- submit to their desires or almost surely suffer a beating and a gang rape anyway.

It's a story told by gang members, prostitutes and NGO workers. For the gang members it's about "fun" and camaraderie. For Cambodia's estimated 70,000 sex workers it's about fear and powerlessness. Aid workers say it's also about attitudes toward male and female sexuality, about the well-connected abusing the powerless, and about the culture of violence that has taken root in Cambodia. Some suggest it is an indirect legacy of the Khmer Rouge, whose genocidal atrocities have numbed people and made it difficult for them to empathize with victims of violence.

The most common victims of gang rape are prostitutes who work at places such as Chea Sim Park, a worn strip of turf about the length of three football fields. At any given hour of the night, dozens of sex workers are huddled in small groups along the park's perimeter. All of them stand a "very high chance" of being gang raped," Bearup said.

Sraybo, 22, who works at Chea Sim Park, guesses that maybe 100 women there have been gang-raped in parks throughout the city. But Sraybo says she has never been forced to endure bauk. "Many gang members come here to find girls. I've just been lucky," she said.

Da, a 21-year-old brothel worker, has not been so lucky. She said she has been gang-raped three times. The men have never beaten her, she said, but they threatened her with violence each time. "If I don't have sex with all of them they will beat me up," she said.

There is little the women can do. Neither pimps nor police offer protection with the latter unlikely to arrest a university student.

"Justice is connected to who you are connected to," Bearup explained. "You can't rely on the police and judicial system."

In fact, prostitutes can rely on few people in Cambodia, where they occupy the absolute lowest rung on the societal ladder. There is "a general acceptance that these women, because of their status as prostitutes or their sexual availability, were less than fully human," said the GAD report. "More than speaking freely, gang members openly spoke of bauk as though it was a kind of sport."

A survey of young people who were not gang members also showed a stunning lack of empathy for victims of bauk. Only 13 percent of young men and 13 percent of young women identified bauk as rape. About 12 percent of men and 16 percent of women said that while bauk is wrong, it was better that prostitutes endure it than other women.

Yet the same values that make prostitutes so despised also make them necessary: the value traditional Khmer culture places on a young woman's virginity. So-called "good" girls are expected to remain virgins until marriage. Those who don't are bad. There is little gray area. Although Khmer culture demands female virginity, it links masculinity to sexual activity. As a result, prostitutes are the object of most young men's sexual encounters throughout their youth and early adulthood.

To be sure, sexual practices are slowly changing due to the spread of HIV/AIDS, and more "good" girls are engaging in premarital sex. But attitudes toward women and their sexuality have lagged behind these changing practices, and the line between "good" and "bad" girls has become blurred. Some gang members have abducted young women who were not prostitutes and gang-raped them, the GAD report said. One told researchers he had invited his friends to gang- rape three women with whom he had already had consensual sex several times.

In any case, for gangsters bauk is less about sex than it is a night out with the guys. Most see it as a bonding activity more than a sexual encounter. "We like to do it together. It's our favorite thing to do," said Kchey, 23, who added that for sexual gratification he prefers to visit prostitutes alone. To the extent that bauk is about sex, it is seen as an economical way to obtain it for those who might not be able to afford to purchase the services of a prostitute themselves.

Bearup and other social workers ponder a link between the horrors of the Khmer Rouge and a change in the Cambodian psyche. Even those who may not have lived through the worst period of the country's modern history certainly see it reflected in their parents and their attitudes toward violence.

"Underneath, you do have the potential for callousness when you have seen the sorts of things so many people here have seen," Bearup said.

[mbkudu]

Cambodia's penchant for gang rape grows more common

Elite young men above the law prey on prostitutes seen as less than human

Henry Hoenig, Chronicle Foreign Service

Sunday, October 26, 2003

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Phnom Penh, Cambodia -- Sipping a beer in an Irish pub, Doc looks every bit the privileged young man that he is. Neatly dressed in a buttoned-down shirt and khaki pants, he is polite and quick with a smile, especially when talking about his favorite pastime - gang rape.

Asked how many times he has gang raped a prostitute, the 23-year-old pauses, looks at the ceiling, and grins while venturing a guess: "I don't know. Maybe 100 times."

Whether the number is true or not, Doc is among an alarming number of young Cambodian men in the habit of gang-raping prostitutes, a practice called bauk, which means "plus" in Khmer.

Bauk has been practiced for years, but has become more popular after the government closed down some of the city's most notorious brothels, driving the trade underground. It is especially popular among university students in Cambodia's larger towns, according to Gender and Development for Cambodia (GAD), a nongovernmental organization.

Most participants are from affluent families and are members of youth gangs. Doc, for example, claims family connections in the police department and the National Assembly. These young men are the future leaders of Cambodia.

Bauk is "more common among people with money," said Luke Bearup, author of the recent GAD report. "It's the guys who are connected, who feel invulnerable. It's the rising middle class and upper class who are most involved."

A night out for these young men frequently involves one or two men picking up a prostitute at a park or a brothel and taking her to a guesthouse just outside the city. Once there, the young woman will find up to a dozen more men waiting to have sex with her as a group. She will face a grim choice, if it can be called a choice at all -- submit to their desires or almost surely suffer a beating and a gang rape anyway.

It's a story told by gang members, prostitutes and NGO workers. For the gang members it's about "fun" and camaraderie. For Cambodia's estimated 70,000 sex workers it's about fear and powerlessness. Aid workers say it's also about attitudes toward male and female sexuality, about the well-connected abusing the powerless, and about the culture of violence that has taken root in Cambodia. Some suggest it is an indirect legacy of the Khmer Rouge, whose genocidal atrocities have numbed people and made it difficult for them to empathize with victims of violence.

The most common victims of gang rape are prostitutes who work at places such as Chea Sim Park, a worn strip of turf about the length of three football fields. At any given hour of the night, dozens of sex workers are huddled in small groups along the park's perimeter. All of them stand a "very high chance" of being gang raped," Bearup said.

Sraybo, 22, who works at Chea Sim Park, guesses that maybe 100 women there have been gang-raped in parks throughout the city. But Sraybo says she has never been forced to endure bauk. "Many gang members come here to find girls. I've just been lucky," she said.

Da, a 21-year-old brothel worker, has not been so lucky. She said she has been gang-raped three times. The men have never beaten her, she said, but they threatened her with violence each time. "If I don't have sex with all of them they will beat me up," she said.

There is little the women can do. Neither pimps nor police offer protection with the latter unlikely to arrest a university student.

"Justice is connected to who you are connected to," Bearup explained. "You can't rely on the police and judicial system."

In fact, prostitutes can rely on few people in Cambodia, where they occupy the absolute lowest rung on the societal ladder. There is "a general acceptance that these women, because of their status as prostitutes or their sexual availability, were less than fully human," said the GAD report. "More than speaking freely, gang members openly spoke of bauk as though it was a kind of sport."

A survey of young people who were not gang members also showed a stunning lack of empathy for victims of bauk. Only 13 percent of young men and 13 percent of young women identified bauk as rape. About 12 percent of men and 16 percent of women said that while bauk is wrong, it was better that prostitutes endure it than other women.

Yet the same values that make prostitutes so despised also make them necessary: the value traditional Khmer culture places on a young woman's virginity. So-called "good" girls are expected to remain virgins until marriage. Those who don't are bad. There is little gray area. Although Khmer culture demands female virginity, it links masculinity to sexual activity. As a result, prostitutes are the object of most young men's sexual encounters throughout their youth and early adulthood.

To be sure, sexual practices are slowly changing due to the spread of HIV/AIDS, and more "good" girls are engaging in premarital sex. But attitudes toward women and their sexuality have lagged behind these changing practices, and the line between "good" and "bad" girls has become blurred. Some gang members have abducted young women who were not prostitutes and gang-raped them, the GAD report said. One told researchers he had invited his friends to gang- rape three women with whom he had already had consensual sex several times.

In any case, for gangsters bauk is less about sex than it is a night out with the guys. Most see it as a bonding activity more than a sexual encounter. "We like to do it together. It's our favorite thing to do," said Kchey, 23, who added that for sexual gratification he prefers to visit prostitutes alone. To the extent that bauk is about sex, it is seen as an economical way to obtain it for those who might not be able to afford to purchase the services of a prostitute themselves.

Bearup and other social workers ponder a link between the horrors of the Khmer Rouge and a change in the Cambodian psyche. Even those who may not have lived through the worst period of the country's modern history certainly see it reflected in their parents and their attitudes toward violence.

"Underneath, you do have the potential for callousness when you have seen the sorts of things so many people here have seen," Bearup said.

Brought to by those all American good guys, Lyndon B. Johnson, Richard Nixon, Henry Kissinger and Bob McNamara.

[LAW PHOO CHAAI]

mbkudu, thanks for your thoughts. mistreatment by many, not just the americans. remember Pol Pot and his proteges and then the occupation from their eastern neighbor.

[mbkudu]

Everyon requires a helping hand in a time of need.

[Dickie]

It's not surprising the Cambodians are screwed-up after what happened.

[mbkudu]

It's not surprising the Cambodians are screwed-up after what happened.

Dickie, it's not surprising that half the world is screwed up after what has happened. The screws are being turned as we speak.

[medicinebox]

It's not surprising the Cambodians are screwed-up after what happened.

Dickie, it's not surprising that half the world is screwed up after what has happened. The screws are being turned as we speak.

The rest of the world never heard them screws creaking as they were turned in...

Very bad that....

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Did you call your phone and see who answers ?

Ask her when she is coming back from the store ?

Maybe she just got lost and could not find her way back !

and she can't call him coz she's got his phone.

[mbkudu]

Yes, Dr. Pat Pong, how could I have been so forgetful, the cell phone, the most important part of this thread, silly me !

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Yes, Dr. Pat Pong, how could I have been so forgetful, the cell phone, the most important part of this thread, silly me !

You are forgiven MB

[DJ Pat]

I can't believe you thought you could change her.

What do you look like?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I can't believe you thought you could change her.

What do you look like?

He looks like the original eternal optimist. He had hoped he'd found a hooker that took on charity cases. Once she tumbled to old mate's tight arsedness, she grasped his phone in lieu of payment, and forthwith fled the scene for good, with old mate's phone aforesaid well hidden from prying eyes.

[DJ Pat]

He had hoped he'd found a hooker that took on charity cases.

Great stuff !!

[thongdee]

I am happy maried with a Surin woman , for 14 years , used to live over there , never met 1 bad girl!!!! al those years (maybe I just lucky ) :-)

[stevenjm]

I can't believe you thought you could change her.

What do you look like?

He looks like the original eternal optimist. He had hoped he'd found a hooker that took on charity cases. Once she tumbled to old mate's tight arsedness, she grasped his phone in lieu of payment, and forthwith fled the scene for good, with old mate's phone aforesaid well hidden from prying eyes.

yeh - you know I thought thats exactly what had happened.

Out of respect for this phnom penh girl and possibly others I have to give an update to the story.

I'm a complete a-hole for having a suspicious mind all the time - her only living relative(grandmother) had become ill and died.

and after chasing me up in sihanouk ville and crying for 2 days straight I think I'm the evil one - I feel like a real <deleted>.

now back to things being really good and learnt a lesson about not jumping to conclusions just because this is SEA.

apologies to the girls of phnom penh.

[sleir]

hehe, who would have thought ?

well, good luck to you !

[dr_Pat_Pong]

hehe, who would have thought ?

well, good luck to you !

Whoever said that there was no God ? This lad is now on the path of the righteous

[rod_kalashnikov]