Australian Aged Pension

[scorecard]

On 12/15/2019 at 10:50 AM, 4MyEgo said:

Each time you depart you must let them know otherwise they will stop your payments, it's part of the deal.

 

Mr/Mrs Centrelink, I am going on an overseas holiday and do not know when I will be back, that is all you have to do, they enter it into the system and the system doesn't bounce when it's picked up from immigration or border control if you like.

 

It comes up under when your circumstances change which is broad, they cannot stop you having portability of your pension, they just want to know what your up to circumstances wise, Inon of your fn business), think again, their rules, play the game, but be smart, let's you left and your pension was stopped, you ring them, oh but you didn't tell us and the system picked it up and stopped your pension because you didn't notify us that your circumstances changed, now that it has stopped you will have to come back and the system will reactivate ince your back in the country as we will know when your back, don't think for one minute you will win with these robots.

 

The way I would do it, hi guys my circumstances are changing and have to let you know as advised, i.e. I am departing on X and travelling the world, don't know when I will be back, can you put a note in your system so my pension doesn't get stopped.

 

Money in your Australian account as usual, Transferwise to Thai account, Bob's your late uncle.

 

Each to their own.

Quote from above "Each time you depart you must let them know otherwise they will stop your payments, it's part of the deal."

 

"Mr/Mrs Centrelink, I am going on an overseas holiday and do not know when I will be back, that is all you have to do, they enter it into the system and the system doesn't bounce when it's picked up from immigration or border control if you like."

 

How do you advise them? Would an e-mail to the general CL e-mail address something like below suffice, or is there a specific e-mail address for this scenario? Or?

 

And do you attach scan of ticket / or just quote ticket details, destination?   

 

"Dear Centrelink,

 

My CL reference number is:  ........................

 

My name is: ...................... 

 

This message is to inform you that I intend to leave Australia on xx/xx/xxxx

 

And I plan to return to return to Australia on xx/xx/xxxx (10 days after the departure shown just above).

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Signature

[ripstanley]

53 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Quote from above "Each time you depart you must let them know otherwise they will stop your payments, it's part of the deal."

 

"Mr/Mrs Centrelink, I am going on an overseas holiday and do not know when I will be back, that is all you have to do, they enter it into the system and the system doesn't bounce when it's picked up from immigration or border control if you like."

 

How do you advise them? Would an e-mail to the general CL e-mail address something like below suffice, or is there a specific e-mail address for this scenario? Or?

 

And do you attach scan of ticket / or just quote ticket details, destination?   

 

"Dear Centrelink,

 

My CL reference number is:  ........................

 

My name is: ...................... 

 

This message is to inform you that I intend to leave Australia on xx/xx/xxxx

 

And I plan to return to return to Australia on xx/xx/xxxx (10 days after the departure shown just above).

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Signature

This is from their website

 

How to tell us about your travel plans

The easiest way to tell us about your travel plans is by using your Centrelink online account through myGov.

Learn how to register for an online account if you don’t already have one.

If you can’t use an online account, tell us your travel plans by either:

calling the older Australians line

going to a service centre.

 

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/services/centrelink/age-pension/how-manage-your-payment/if-you-travel-outside-australia

[scorecard]

I posted this message before (#3510) but I've now realized my message is quite confusing, I've amended my message below:

 

I'm a bit lost on the 25 years to qualify / the 35 year to qualify.

 

Example, born in Oz in 1945, stayed in Oz full time until 1992, except for:

 

1). several longer holidays after retrenchment then finally moved abroad in 1995.

 

2). 1yr 3 mths active service (conscription) in Sth, Vietnam, however I'm hoping that would not be counted as any break in time in Australia.

 

Would really appreciate some comments from the experts, thanks.

 

 

[dundas]

8 minutes ago, scorecard said:

1yr 3 mths active service (conscription) in Sth, Vietnam, however I'm hoping that would not be counted as any break in time in Australia.

To be clear, I'm no expert in these matters, but as to your military service, I don't think it would be considered a break in time from Australia. Australian public servants have the benefit of a clause which says if they're paying into an Australian government superannuation fund while they're overseas, they're considered to be Australian residents (even though they're definitely 'residing' elsewhere). It's basically designed for people on the government payroll working in embassies etc, but it's also how I was able to spend an entire year in Thailand when on long service leave (but still paying into the super fund) – I was still an 'Australian resident' during that time. I assume Australian military service would be treated in a similar way. 

 

As for your first question, it depends. If by longer holidays you're talking about more than 180 days in a year (and I'm not sure if the 'year' is financial year, calendar year or something to do with your birthday (again, to be clear I'm no expert in this), then maybe it would be counted as time out of the country. But for periods shorter than that, as far as I know the answer is 'no problem.' 

 

You could ask Centrelink for more authoritative advice ... and get it in writing, if possible. 

[BB1958]

14 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Example, born in Oz in 1945, stayed in Oz full time until 1992, except for:

 

1). several longer holidays after retrenchment then finally moved abroad in 1995.

 

2). 1yr 3 mths active service (conscription) in Sth, Vietnam, however I'm hoping that would not be counted as any break in time in Australia.

I can say with some certainty, you qualify for FULL portability of "whatever" pension you are entitled to. Forget your holidays and your conscription. You spent a "qualifying" 37yrs in OZ.

 

https://www.dss.gov.au/about-the-department/international/policy/portability-of-australian-income-support-payments

 

 

[scorecard]

27 minutes ago, BB1958 said:

I can say with some certainty, you qualify for FULL portability of "whatever" pension you are entitled to. Forget your holidays and your conscription. You spent a "qualifying" 37yrs in OZ.

 

https://www.dss.gov.au/about-the-department/international/policy/portability-of-australian-income-support-payments

 

 

Thanks, that was my own calculation but in old age I'm getting confused easily and making mistakes in the way I assess things, therefore I was looking for another person to make the calculation.

 

Again, Thanks, very much appreciated.

[Lacessit]

On 12/15/2019 at 12:32 PM, 4MyEgo said:

For what it's worth, I have read somewhere in the legislation that its 6 months of a financial year, so that might be the key, i.e. be in Australia from say 1 July to 31 December if that makes the 183 days required a year to retain your residency status, or 1 January to 30 June.

 

If you retain your residency status, they cannot argue so if your lodging tax returns, make sure you tick the box Australian resident for tax purposes as opposed to non-resident for tax purposes.

IMO it's time to put this 183 day rule to bed. The official pamphlet on residency is attached.

Read the third column carefully. To me, it says the only people it applies to are those who have emigrated to Australia from somewhere else. People born and raised in Australia are unaffected.

n75127-DE-5543_Residency-for-tax-purposes-factsheet_W.pdf

[4MyEgo]

59 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

IMO it's time to put this 183 day rule to bed. The official pamphlet on residency is attached.

Read the third column carefully. To me, it says the only people it applies to are those who have emigrated to Australia from somewhere else. People born and raised in Australia are unaffected.

n75127-DE-5543_Residency-for-tax-purposes-factsheet_W.pdfFetching info...

I wouldn't dare be thinking of putting it to bed. While I appreciate its your interpretation and opinion, but without having sort qualified advice from a certified accountant, the taxation department or having read the legislation (I have done 3) and even though I was born in Australia, as soon as I departed and was out of the country for more than 183 days, my residency changed for tax purposes.

 

If you really want to polish up on how you can be deemed a non resident for tax purposes, I can flick you the legislation, but be ready for a lot of reading and a lot of defining, i.e. everybodies circumstances are different, even though I have my daughter back in Oz and my mum is in a nursing home, because I live here in Thailand, I am a non resident, you can't have two abodes, even though I intend on returning to Australia in the future, I am a non resident for tax purposes now, and don't think for one minute I am a resident for tax purposes.

 

If you have a property, a car, furniture, club memberships etc etc the onus is on you to prove that you are a resident for tax purposes during your absence, not exactly easy IMO, and with the latest changes to the capital gains tax for properties held by non residents back in Oz, starting on 1 July 2020 that will not be grandfathered, those who think they are non residents might get a rude awakening call when they might be deemed a non resident and have to pay capital gains tax all the way back to when they purchased the property, we all make our beds, so best to be one step ahead and don't trust governments or their legislation, especially one like this which can go either way as you go through the minefield. 

[4MyEgo]

4 hours ago, scorecard said:

Quote from above "Each time you depart you must let them know otherwise they will stop your payments, it's part of the deal."

 

"Mr/Mrs Centrelink, I am going on an overseas holiday and do not know when I will be back, that is all you have to do, they enter it into the system and the system doesn't bounce when it's picked up from immigration or border control if you like."

 

How do you advise them? Would an e-mail to the general CL e-mail address something like below suffice, or is there a specific e-mail address for this scenario? Or?

 

And do you attach scan of ticket / or just quote ticket details, destination?   

 

"Dear Centrelink,

 

My CL reference number is:  ........................

 

My name is: ...................... 

 

This message is to inform you that I intend to leave Australia on xx/xx/xxxx

 

And I plan to return to return to Australia on xx/xx/xxxx (10 days after the departure shown just above).

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Signature

Walking in should do it.

[RJRS1301]

43 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Walking in should do it.

Good luck walking in, the person on concierge duties will either refer you to an online contact, set you up on one of their computers or advise you to ring the "older Australians" helpline

[4MyEgo]

30 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

Good luck walking in, the person on concierge duties will either refer you to an online contact, set you up on one of their computers or advise you to ring the "older Australians" helpline

Yeh I hear yah, been into Centrelink once in my life, i.e. when mum was put into aged care, I had to notify them that I was her appointed contact, had power of attorney doc and doctors letter stating that she was incapable of handling her affairs, suffice to say from the moment I walked in I was greeted as if I felt that the female standing there with her tablet was trying me on for size, not listening to a word I was saying, stone faced, overweight and pointing me to a computer to download a form to fill in and then go back to her, not even a smile, suffice to say I love putting people in their place when they try and treat me as being under them, long of the short, I ended up walking out after seeing some idiot Indian behind the counter after waiting an hour who told me the document that I had was a copy of a copy, with my reply being as loud, but as cool as possible, you know what, I always heard stories about staff at CenterLink being incompetent, well today just confirmed what I was told, but not only are you incompetent, your supposed to be doing a job which even the thickest of thick people would know what a copy of certified document looks like, what pees me of is the fact that my taxes pay for your salaries and now I know why my taxes are being wasted on idiots, the security guard came over, when I raised my hand to him when he was 10 feet away and I said, look at you and look at me, don't even think about it unless you want to go home late tonight, I got up, left and turned and said to everyone there that I felt for them having to deal with these clowns and then went to the next office where everything went as smooth as you could expect.    

 

If I ever do get the pension, I hope to avoid them like the plague.

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I wouldn't dare be thinking of putting it to bed. While I appreciate its your interpretation and opinion, but without having sort qualified advice from a certified accountant, the taxation department or having read the legislation (I have done 3) and even though I was born in Australia, as soon as I departed and was out of the country for more than 183 days, my residency changed for tax purposes.

 

If you really want to polish up on how you can be deemed a non resident for tax purposes, I can flick you the legislation, but be ready for a lot of reading and a lot of defining, i.e. everybodies circumstances are different, even though I have my daughter back in Oz and my mum is in a nursing home, because I live here in Thailand, I am a non resident, you can't have two abodes, even though I intend on returning to Australia in the future, I am a non resident for tax purposes now, and don't think for one minute I am a resident for tax purposes.

 

If you have a property, a car, furniture, club memberships etc etc the onus is on you to prove that you are a resident for tax purposes during your absence, not exactly easy IMO, and with the latest changes to the capital gains tax for properties held by non residents back in Oz, starting on 1 July 2020 that will not be grandfathered, those who think they are non residents might get a rude awakening call when they might be deemed a non resident and have to pay capital gains tax all the way back to when they purchased the property, we all make our beds, so best to be one step ahead and don't trust governments or their legislation, especially one like this which can go either way as you go through the minefield. 

I disagree. The onus seems to be on the ATO to determine whether you are non-resident, not for me to prove I am resident.

My accountant advises me it is very much a grey area. However, governments and bureaucracies are quite fearful of media attention if it is shown they are picking on pensioners. The Baby Boomers have made us a powerful voting bloc, that no politician wants to offend.

I've found with Centrelink if you know your rights, and can produce documentation in support, no problems. I've only ever encountered one bitch, who tried to intimidate me. I think she was relieved to move on to her next customer when I had finished with her.

[moojar]

10 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I disagree. The onus seems to be on the ATO to determine whether you are non-resident, not for me to prove I am resident.

My accountant advises me it is very much a grey area. However, governments and bureaucracies are quite fearful of media attention if it is shown they are picking on pensioners. The Baby Boomers have made us a powerful voting bloc, that no politician wants to offend.

I've found with Centrelink if you know your rights, and can produce documentation in support, no problems. I've only ever encountered one bitch, who tried to intimidate me. I think she was relieved to move on to her next customer when I had finished with her.

My accountant told me I can confidently regard myself as 'resident' for two financial years after I leave.  

 

Seems to be three different interpretations from three different accountants eh?  I guess we will all find out one day, but I wouldn't be betting a six-figure Capital Gains Tax bill on the eventual ruling. 

 

I have had little to do with CL since they were the 'Commonwealth Employment Service' and I was "surfing for the government".  ????   

 

Boomers are declining in importance to politicians btw.  Younger generations are far more vocal and organised, and they are the ones paying the taxes.  Google 'OK Boomer' if you want to get real irate.   

 

 

[4MyEgo]

21 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I disagree. The onus seems to be on the ATO to determine whether you are non-resident, not for me to prove I am resident.

My accountant advises me it is very much a grey area. However, governments and bureaucracies are quite fearful of media attention if it is shown they are picking on pensioners. The Baby Boomers have made us a powerful voting bloc, that no politician wants to offend.

I've found with Centrelink if you know your rights, and can produce documentation in support, no problems. I've only ever encountered one bitch, who tried to intimidate me. I think she was relieved to move on to her next customer when I had finished with her.

As soon as the ATO (If ever) deems you a non-resident for tax purposes and asks you for all the back taxes, the onus is on you to prove that you are a resident, not the ATO.

 

Forget the accountant stating it's a grey area, what he/she is saying is, he/she has no idea, a good accountant doesn't duck for cover, mine hit me between the eyes, you will be a non resident for tax purposes, my next step was writing in to the ATO for a ruling, yep, non resident, then I read the legislation and countless court rulings, you see I don't want my head in the sand to have to worry later down the track when the ATO rears its ugly head as it did with Hogan and slugged him with back taxes, so best to deal with it up front, but each to their own.

 

Nothing to do with baby boomers, you know if your a resident or not, and you know you're either on the ball and upfront about it, or whether you will roll the dice and face the music in time, (if ever).

 

The way I see it is, there are also other ways around dodging bullets if your careful enough, but as long as I know my residency status, there can be no mistakes down the track.

 

 

[CygnusX1]

Apologies if this has been posted before, but this is an ATO tax residency calculator -

 

https://www.ato.gov.au/Calculators-and-tools/Host/?anchor=DORSLA&anchor=DORSLA/questions#DORSLA/questions

 

I was worried after buying a condo in Thailand and discovering the 183 day rule, but according to this calculator, I’m still a resident of Australia for tax purposes even if I were to spend the majority of every year overseas, and even if I were to stay in my Thai condo the whole time that I’m overseas. Helps that I own a flat in Australia that I regularly return to, though this only has to be once a year or so. I think the ATO want to know that you still have long-standing ties to Australia. 

 

 

 

[Will27]

1 hour ago, CygnusX1 said:

Apologies if this has been posted before, but this is an ATO tax residency calculator -

 

https://www.ato.gov.au/Calculators-and-tools/Host/?anchor=DORSLA&anchor=DORSLA/questions#DORSLA/questions

 

I was worried after buying a condo in Thailand and discovering the 183 day rule, but according to this calculator, I’m still a resident of Australia for tax purposes even if I were to spend the majority of every year overseas, and even if I were to stay in my Thai condo the whole time that I’m overseas. Helps that I own a flat in Australia that I regularly return to, though this only has to be once a year or so. I think the ATO want to know that you still have long-standing ties to Australia. 

 

 

 

Having ties to Australia is OK, but at the end of the day, most of the people living in Thailand who

return to Oz once or twice a year would be considered non-residents for tax purposes IMO.

 

I mean it's not that hard really.

How can people expect to be a considered resident when they spend 50 weeks or thereabouts

a year in Thailand?

 

I know some on here keep fictitious diaries and do other stuff, which won't really help if you get audited.

But as another member on here stated, the ATO really doesn't want to be seen as targeting pensioners.

 

Best just to try and fly under the radar.

[CygnusX1]

Have you tried the calculator, maybe with 11 months in Thailand?

One problem is that with council tax etc maintaining even a very cheap flat in Australia is certainly expensive.

[4MyEgo]

13 hours ago, CygnusX1 said:

Have you tried the calculator, maybe with 11 months in Thailand?

One problem is that with council tax etc maintaining even a very cheap flat in Australia is certainly expensive.

Some people listen, others stick their heads in the sand.

 

That said, I will say this for the last time, because when I research something, I will go way over the top, a bit like putting a big jigsaw puzzle together, then dismantling it and doing it again and again and again to see if it can be done differently, and we know with jigsaw puzzles they are all the same.

 

I would HATE to see any Ozzie expat get ripped hard because they interpret what the ATO website says, which coincidentally had a disclaimer at the end of it, ever wonder why they have a disclaimer ?

 

Come 1 July 2020 when the new legislation kicks in a hell of a lot of expat Ozzies will be caught unprepared because they all believe they are residents for tax purposes, now that might well be for those who have done their due diligence, i.e. got it formalised and in writing from the ATO, not their website, that said, any property held as a principal place of residence, e.g. a property you purchased and then rented it out and moved to Thailand will be subject to the new rule, which is it will be subjected to FULL capital gains tax with no 50% threshold, with no grandfathering, yes no grandfathering, in other words, the capital gains tax will apply from the very first day you purchased it, not the day you leased it or left for overseas as it currently is until 30 June 2020.

 

I have had someone on TVF who listened to me a year ago and sold their property and of course got in well before this new rule comes in, in 6 months, paid their CGT, now with 6 months left to go, is not a long time to get a property sold in a down turning market, e.g. Xmas/New Years break, contractors to be prepared, and then with say 4 months left before settlement, the squeeze gets tighter.

 

So, I will say it for the last time, if you haven't got anything in writing from the ATO confirming your tax residency, well duck season is open and if you want to take on a giant like the ATO, you deserve everything you get, just saying, you wouldn't think twice about putting on a condom when having sex with a stranger, but sticking your head in the sand when it affects your assets, no thanks, not me, confirmation in writing is when I sleep best because if ever the ATO said oi, your residency status is different to what you have been saying, then I would just put the letter under their nose, end of story. 

[CygnusX1]

So, you’re saying that even if you have a printout of your truthful answers to the ATO’s own residency calculator, it’s not good enough?

[4MyEgo]

23 hours ago, CygnusX1 said:

So, you’re saying that even if you have a printout of your truthful answers to the ATO’s own residency calculator, it’s not good enough?

Correct, it is a guide only, not concrete, every case is different, that is why it is best to have them put it in writing. An example below, which in my opinion would see her as a resident, but the legislation can swing either way:

 

Bronwyn – an extended job overseas

Facts

Bronwyn, an Australian resident, has received a job offer to work overseas for three years, with the option to extend for another three years.

Bronwyn, her husband and three children decide to make the move.

They retain their property in Australia, as they intend to return one day.

The house will be rented out during their absence.

Bronwyn is uncertain whether she will extend the option to stay after three years, and will decide later, depending on how the family like the life there.

While overseas, they will rent a house with an accommodation allowance provided under her contract.

Outcome – why is Bronwyn considered a foreign resident?

The following table outlines the reasons why the four residency tests were not satisfied.

Test	This test is not satisfied because...
Residency – the resides test	the length of Bronwyn's physical absence from Australia and the surrounding circumstances (such as establishing a home overseas with her family and renting out her family home in Australia) are not consistent with residing in Australia, even though she has retained the family home in Australia.
Residency – the domicile test	her permanent place of abode is outside Australia due to     the length of time she has committed to spending overseas establishment of a home overseas, and her family accompanying her the fact that she will not be selling the home in Australia, although relevant, is not persuasive enough to overcome the finding on the basis of the other factors it is arguable that she has abandoned her home in Australia for the duration of her stay, by renting it out.
Residency – the 183 day test	this does not apply from the date of her departure for overseas.
Residency – the superannuation test	this does not apply.

 

Now add to the above the new legislation which comes into play on 1 July 2020, Bronwyn would be paying full capital gains tax on her residence when she sells it as a non resident, no 50% discount, and the capital gains tax goes all the way back to the date she purchased it, not the date when she left the country, so as you can see, getting it right is imperative, especially for those who have a property back home, the difference in capital gains tax can be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars and personally, I have no idea why both sides agreed to this drastic rule as it will have dire consequences on a lot of unsuspecting expats, especially the ones who like to have their heads in the sand.

[Will27]

On 12/21/2019 at 10:25 AM, CygnusX1 said:

So, you’re saying that even if you have a printout of your truthful answers to the ATO’s own residency calculator, it’s not good

enough?

I'm not saying you have, but I reckon a fair few would fudge the answers to get the result they require.

I wonder how many would honestly answer to these 2 questions?

 

Are you an Australian resident who is emigrating to live permanently in another country?

What do you consider to be your home country Link opens in new window?

 

I'm guessing a lot would be ticking no and Australia.

 

[scorecard]

5 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Correct, it is a guide only, not concrete, every case is different, that is why it is best to have them put it in writing. An example below, which in my opinion would see her as a resident, but the legislation can swing either way:

 

Bronwyn – an extended job overseas

Facts

Bronwyn, an Australian resident, has received a job offer to work overseas for three years, with the option to extend for another three years.

Bronwyn, her husband and three children decide to make the move.

They retain their property in Australia, as they intend to return one day.

The house will be rented out during their absence.

Bronwyn is uncertain whether she will extend the option to stay after three years, and will decide later, depending on how the family like the life there.

While overseas, they will rent a house with an accommodation allowance provided under her contract.

Outcome – why is Bronwyn considered a foreign resident?

The following table outlines the reasons why the four residency tests were not satisfied.

Test	This test is not satisfied because...
Residency – the resides test	the length of Bronwyn's physical absence from Australia and the surrounding circumstances (such as establishing a home overseas with her family and renting out her family home in Australia) are not consistent with residing in Australia, even though she has retained the family home in Australia.
Residency – the domicile test	her permanent place of abode is outside Australia due to     the length of time she has committed to spending overseas establishment of a home overseas, and her family accompanying her the fact that she will not be selling the home in Australia, although relevant, is not persuasive enough to overcome the finding on the basis of the other factors it is arguable that she has abandoned her home in Australia for the duration of her stay, by renting it out.
Residency – the 183 day test	this does not apply from the date of her departure for overseas.
Residency – the superannuation test	this does not apply.

 

Now add to the above the new legislation which comes into play on 1 July 2020, Bronwyn would be paying full capital gains tax on her residence when she sells it as a non resident, no 50% discount, and the capital gains tax goes all the way back to the date she purchased it, not the date when she left the country, so as you can see, getting it right is imperative, especially for those who have a property back home, the difference in capital gains tax can be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars and personally, I have no idea why both sides agreed to this drastic rule as it will have dire consequences on a lot of unsuspecting expats, especially the ones who like to have their heads in the sand.

 

A bit confused ... please share, when is this test conducted? 

 

[4MyEgo]

17 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

A bit confused ... please share, when is this test conducted? 

 

If and when the ATO audits you, and that's a BIG if, that said, I would imagine that there will be a lot of auditing going on in the future, focusing on the sales of properties where expats live overseas and then sell their principal place of residences, as the new legislation kicks in 1 July 2020, and that is where the bulk of the future money that the ATO will be focused on as the new capital gains tax rules, is supposed to make them collect $580,000,000.

 

If you don't own property, I wouldn't be too concerned, as they won't be looking at small fish, but for example, if you purchased a property as your principal place of residence and then leased it under the 6 year rule, if you still own it after 1 July 2020 and then sell it as a non resident, your capital gains tax event will go back to the very first day you purchased it, so if you purchased it in May 2000 for a million and sold it for two million, I would imagine with no 50% discount usually applied after holding it for 12 months, you will be up for 100% of the gains, e.g. $1,000,000 taxed at say 45% or $450,000 instead of what it would have increased by when you left Australia 6 years earlier, e.g. you would have a Valuer value the property as at the date you left, fair market value established, e.g. $1,750,000, sale price $2,000,000, tax on $250,000 profit less 50% discount = $125,000 at 45% = $56,250, so as you can see there is a big difference, e.g. $450,000 vs $56,250 in capital gains tax.

 

The above said, I am not a qualified accountant, but from what I have read, it's a no brainer, however anyone owning a property back in Oz, MUST talk to a qualified accountant to sort their potential future losses, if any, before it's too late.

 

I got out in 2016 because I knew this was in the pipeline and the market was eventually going to go south after a good 5 years on the board running, can't complain, timing was a little off as I probably had another 12 months of gains, maybe $40/50k more, but happy with my decision as I made enough to keep me going here till I'm dead. 

[scorecard]

20 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

If and when the ATO audits you, and that's a BIG if, that said, I would imagine that there will be a lot of auditing going on in the future, focusing on the sales of properties where expats live overseas and then sell their principal place of residences, as the new legislation kicks in 1 July 2020, and that is where the bulk of the future money that the ATO will be focused on as the new capital gains tax rules, is supposed to make them collect $580,000,000.

 

If you don't own property, I wouldn't be too concerned, as they won't be looking at small fish, but for example, if you purchased a property as your principal place of residence and then leased it under the 6 year rule, if you still own it after 1 July 2020 and then sell it as a non resident, your capital gains tax event will go back to the very first day you purchased it, so if you purchased it in May 2000 for a million and sold it for two million, I would imagine with no 50% discount usually applied after holding it for 12 months, you will be up for 100% of the gains, e.g. $1,000,000 taxed at say 45% or $450,000 instead of what it would have increased by when you left Australia 6 years earlier, e.g. you would have a Valuer value the property as at the date you left, fair market value established, e.g. $1,750,000, sale price $2,000,000, tax on $250,000 profit less 50% discount = $125,000 at 45% = $56,250, so as you can see there is a big difference, e.g. $450,000 vs $56,250 in capital gains tax.

 

The above said, I am not a qualified accountant, but from what I have read, it's a no brainer, however anyone owning a property back in Oz, MUST talk to a qualified accountant to sort their potential future losses, if any, before it's too late.

 

I got out in 2016 because I knew this was in the pipeline and the market was eventually going to go south after a good 5 years on the board running, can't complain, timing was a little off as I probably had another 12 months of gains, maybe $40/50k more, but happy with my decision as I made enough to keep me going here till I'm dead. 

 

Thanks. 

[CygnusX1]

5 hours ago, scorecard said:

Bronwyn – an extended job overseas

Thanks, point taken, that’s certainly an interesting example. You’d have thought that with only 3 years away she’d still be an Australian resident. Maybe if she’d flown back for a month with her family on each of the 3 years to stay in her Australian house it would have been better.

On the unconscionable sale of property legislation, I presume you’d be OK if you’d purchased the property before 20 September 1985, when capital gains tax was introduced, as cap gains tax isn’t retrospective, even if the new legislation is.

[CygnusX1]

7 hours ago, Will27 said:

Are you an Australian resident who is emigrating to live permanently in another country?

What do you consider to be your home country Link opens in new window?

 

I'm guessing a lot would be ticking no and Australia.

Unless they’re one of the few to have been granted permanent residency, I don’t know how anyone could consider Thailand to be their home country, given 90 day reports, extensions denied if insufficient funds or no health insurance etc.

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, CygnusX1 said:

Unless they’re one of the few to have been granted permanent residency, I don’t know how anyone could consider Thailand to be their home country, given 90 day reports, extensions denied if insufficient funds or no health insurance etc.

You don't have to have permanent residency, there is this word, "abode" usual place of residence, no need for anything, you could be living in a park for all they care, it's in the legislation, where one resides, regardless of anything, that is the key word, "abode".

 

1 hour ago, CygnusX1 said:

Maybe if she’d flown back for a month with her family on each of the 3 years to stay in her Australian house it would have been better.

From the way I interpreted the legislation, its you must have at least 183 days in Australia to be able to say you are a resident for tax purposes, so a month is insufficient, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it is what it is, and as long as we know what it is then we can best deal with it as opposed to putting our heads in the sand until the ATO comes along and pulls them out.

[Will27]

1 hour ago, CygnusX1 said:

Unless they’re one of the few to have been granted permanent residency, I don’t know how anyone could consider Thailand to be their home country, given 90 day reports, extensions denied if insufficient funds or no health insurance etc.

The ATO don't really care about Thailand's immigration policies.

 

I mean, if you've been living in Thailand say, for 50 weeks a year for ten years, in most cases that would be pretty hard to refute it wasn't your place of abode.

 

What about the "are you an Oz resident emigrating to live permanently in another country" question?

 

I'm guessing most would tick no.

I know some who haven't been back to Oz for ten years

and have no intention of ever going back.

[CygnusX1]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

From the way I interpreted the legislation, its you must have at least 183 days in Australia to be able to say you are a resident for tax purposes

Sorry to harp on about this, but surely that can’t be correct, otherwise why would the ATO have all of the other residency tests on its website, as well as in the residency calculator?

What about a retiree who loves travel, and spends nine months of every year visiting different countries, staying no longer than a month in each? What country would he be a tax resident of, if not Australia?

[scorecard]

6 hours ago, CygnusX1 said:

Unless they’re one of the few to have been granted permanent residency, I don’t know how anyone could consider Thailand to be their home country, given 90 day reports, extensions denied if insufficient funds or no health insurance etc.

Not everybody fits the 'mould' you mention.

 

I don't have to do 90 day reports nor get extensions therefore no issues re 'insufficient funds'. 

 

I also have a wonderful family situation, son and his wife and kids who give me lots of love and care and respect.

 

Life is good.