Australian Aged Pension

[Lacessit]

47 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

I've never applied for nor received a cent of the OAP (or whatever it's called now), but do receive a superannuation pension from my years slaving for the govt.

It is taxed, but at a reasonable, residents rate. This proposed way of taxing my stipend would definitely hurt, and affect my lifestyle. I decided some time ago that I will never return to Australia

My on-line tax form comes prefilled by ATO, all I do each year is confirm the detail. I will be waiting with some trepidation to see how it is completed this year.

IMO government pensions do not get the same nose-in-the-air attitude ordinary pensions do, I don't think you have anything to worry about.

I seem to remember in the residency tests they get exempted anyway.

 

I was told this joke by the former chairman of the Victorian EPA:

 

Q: Why do public servants never look out the window in the morning?

 

A: Because then they would have nothing to do in the afternoon.

Edited May 5, 2022 by Lacessit

[Will27]

48 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

I've never applied for nor received a cent of the OAP (or whatever it's called now), but do receive a superannuation pension from my years slaving for the govt.

It is taxed, but at a reasonable, residents rate. This proposed way of taxing my stipend would definitely hurt, and affect my lifestyle. I decided some time ago that I will never return to Australia

My on-line tax form comes prefilled by ATO, all I do each year is confirm the detail. I will be waiting with some trepidation to see how it is completed this year.

I'm hearing you.

 

From what I can gather, even if the new rules does come in, highly unlikely it will be the current financial year.

[Will27]

4 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

IMO government pensions do not get the same nose-in-the-air attitude ordinary pensions do, I don't think you have anything to worry about.

I seem to remember in the residency tests they get exempted anyway.

 

I was told this joke by the former chairman of the Victorian EPA:

 

Q: Why do public servants never look out the window in the morning?

 

A: Because then they would have nothing to do in the afternoon.

I'm pretty sure they're not exempt.

 

Unless the government does the right thing and exempts government pensions, it will be everyone I'd imagine.

[LosLobo]

25 minutes ago, Will27 said:

I'm pretty sure they're not exempt.

 

Unless the government does the right thing and exempts government pensions, it will be everyone I'd imagine.

Correct they are not exempt.

 

A friend of mine who recently retired from ATO told me last night that if he moves to Thailand he will return to Oz once a year to maintain his residency and the concessional amount of tax he needs to pay on his Government pension. He seems to think that residency only changes if you volunteer the information.

[Will27]

8 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

Correct they are not exempt.

 

A friend of mine who recently retired from ATO told me last night that if he moves to Thailand he will return to Oz once a year to maintain his residency and the concessional amount of tax he needs to pay on his Government pension. He seems to think that residency only changes if you volunteer the information.

Or get caught up in an audit.

[Olmate]

26 minutes ago, Will27 said:

Or get caught up in an audit.

Don.t you start! 

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, Will27 said:

Or get caught up in an audit.

You really think the ATO can be bothered with an audit of people on pensions? They have bigger fish to fry.

[Will27]

28 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You really think the ATO can be bothered with an audit of people on pensions? They have bigger fish to fry.

Yep

I don't.

 

The ATO usually audit by income level, occupation, tip offs and then randoms.

 

You'd have to be unlucky but it does happen.

[scorecard]

26 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You really think the ATO can be bothered with an audit of people on pensions? They have bigger fish to fry.

Agree, realistic comment, well said:

 

- '...bigger fish to fry' TRUE!

 

- If they did start an activity to monitor pensions that would probably mean large numbers of pensioners, also creating much upset, and the gov't would be severly criticized. So politically a strong negative. Also keeping mind that the additional tax revenue would not be that big (I suspect) therefore not worth causing angst and negative.   

[scorecard]

7 minutes ago, Will27 said:

Yep

I don't.

 

The ATO usually audit by income level, occupation, tip offs and then randoms.

 

You'd have to be unlucky but it does happen.

So, if it's folks receiving the basic OAP plus some small benefits (and the easy to search C'link records indicate the pensioner has no other income and no property anywhere) then perhaps the level of per annum income would be under/well under what the ATO would want to spend time and resources on?

[deej]

33 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Agree, realistic comment, well said:

 

- '...bigger fish to fry' TRUE!

 

- If they did start an activity to monitor pensions that would probably mean large numbers of pensioners, also creating much upset, and the gov't would be severly criticized. So politically a strong negative. Also keeping mind that the additional tax revenue would not be that big (I suspect) therefore not worth causing angst and negative.   

What caught my eye during my own research ,most major  changes to our portable pension,s Etc Etc over the last  20  yrs approx,

it only applied to new Applicant,s , rest were left alone,  Or grand fathered in,so to speak.

And from memory, the last major  change  was 2014.

So all rest easy ????????????the odd,s are in our favour

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by deej

[LosLobo]

4 minutes ago, deej said:

What caught my eye during my own research ,most major  changes to our portable pension,s Etc Etc over the last  20  yrs approx,

it only applied to new Applicant,s , rest were left alone,  Or grand fathered in,so to speak.

And from memory, the last major  change  was 2014.

So all rest easy ????????????

 

 

 

I am curious, what changes except for the 2015 deeming rules,  were only applied to new applicants,

Edited May 5, 2022 by LosLobo

[KhunHeineken]

21 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I'd suggest if - and it's a big IF - the s##t does hit the fan, many pensioners will be minimizing what the government can get its hands on. I know I will be.

I'm already making plans for IF it does impact me.  I am looking at my options, and time frames.  

 

I have a rental property in Australia.  Between management fees, council rates, insurances, repairs and maintenance, and possibly non resident taxation on the rent, there may be no point keeping it.  Trouble is, the market's on the way down. If I sell it, after paying all the fees and taxes, that money is going straight over to a bank account in Singapore, along with the everything else. 

 

21 hours ago, Lacessit said:

As Kerry Packer once famously said, anyone who doesn't minimize their tax needs their head read, because you guys don't spend it so well we should just give it to you.

 

 

 

Well said, Mr. Packer.  

[deej]

10 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

I am curious, what changes except for the 2015 deeming rules,  were only applied to new applicants,

Go to WWW. DSS.COM.AU????

[KhunHeineken]

6 hours ago, deej said:

particular by one misinformed member, is all B/S ,

For the record, I have never once said pensions WILL BE taxed at non resident rates.  I have used words like "may" "possibly" "possible" "possibility" "could." 

 

I have never proclaimed to know EXACTLY that these changes are coming in, and when they are coming in, and how they will be implemented.  I have posted this many times.

 

For this reason, I have no idea why it's scaremongering.  It's a heads up to members on this forum of the PROPOSED changes.  These changes are a fact.  

 

6 hours ago, deej said:

it remains Status Quo

to this point of time,

Great.  What about after the 1st July?  What about 2022?

 

6 hours ago, deej said:

according to reliable sources ,

Can you give some details about your source?

 

6 hours ago, deej said:

relax  until any Govt announcement is forthcoming, which IMO 

is  not in the immediate future or not at all,

Some like to be a little more proactive. 

 

6 hours ago, deej said:

and if i,am mistaken,  we will be Grandfathered in

I highly doubt that.  It would cause a lot of early retirements, for the people wishing to join the scheme, so that's turning tax payers into pension receivers.

 

In any case, do you have any advice for future retirees to Thailand, being that they are not grandfathered in?      

[LosLobo]

[KhunHeineken]

6 hours ago, scorecard said:

Also seems to me that the oap pensions (those who have no other assets or income) will remain as non taxable.

Let's hope so.

 

For others, such as myself, with assets / income in Australia, we may not be so lucky.

 

6 hours ago, scorecard said:

Also seems to me that no government would want to cop the angst of pensioners at the ballot box by taxing basic pensions in any way. 

Again, how many expat pensioners go to the Australian Embassy at election time?  No votes lost, and people back in Australia couldn't care less.

 

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by KhunHeineken

[KhunHeineken]

5 hours ago, Old Croc said:

I've never applied for nor received a cent of the OAP (or whatever it's called now), but do receive a superannuation pension from my years slaving for the govt.

It is taxed, but at a reasonable, residents rate. This proposed way of taxing my stipend would definitely hurt, and affect my lifestyle. I decided some time ago that I will never return to Australia

My on-line tax form comes prefilled by ATO, all I do each year is confirm the detail. I will be waiting with some trepidation to see how it is completed this year.

You'll be fine.  Deal with it if / when it happens.  No need to even consider your options now.   It's all scaremongering. 

 

The government went to all the trouble and expense to draft the legislation just to catch out Paul Hogan.  You're not Paul Hogan, are you?  ????

[KhunHeineken]

5 hours ago, Will27 said:

I'm hearing you.

 

From what I can gather, even if the new rules does come in, highly unlikely it will be the current financial year.

Let's all keep the Singha flowing till next year then.  Next year, we can downgrade to Leo.  ????  

[KhunHeineken]

5 hours ago, Will27 said:

I'm pretty sure they're not exempt.

 

Unless the government does the right thing and exempts government pensions, it will be everyone I'd imagine.

When's the last time the government did the right thing for anything?

[KhunHeineken]

4 hours ago, LosLobo said:

Correct they are not exempt.

 

A friend of mine who recently retired from ATO told me last night that if he moves to Thailand he will return to Oz once a year to maintain his residency and the concessional amount of tax he needs to pay on his Government pension. He seems to think that residency only changes if you volunteer the information.

So if he doesn't volunteer the information, why does he need to return to Australia every year?  How many days will he be back in Australia for each year, could it be 183 days?  Could it be, he MAY make a false declaration at some stage?

 

Did he give any advice for guys you don't return to Australia?  

 

He's gotta be scaremongering you, surely.  ????

Edited May 5, 2022 by KhunHeineken

[KhunHeineken]

4 hours ago, Will27 said:

Or get caught up in an audit.

Nothing to audit.  They know Centerlink gives you a pension, and they know you are outside of Australia for 183 days.  That's all they need to know.  

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, Will27 said:

Yep

I don't.

 

The ATO usually audit by income level, occupation, tip offs and then randoms.

 

You'd have to be unlucky but it does happen.

These new changes only target Paul Hogan.  Everyone else outside of Australia for 183 will be exempt.  ????

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

If they did start an activity to monitor pensions that would probably mean large numbers of pensioners, also creating much upset, and the gov't would be severly criticized. So politically a strong negative. Also keeping mind that the additional tax revenue would not be that big (I suspect) therefore not worth causing angst and negative.   

Ahh, the "It will be in the papers" theory.  

 

What would you propose the pensioners living overseas do about it? 

 

Perhaps we could protest outside Australian Embassies all around the world.   ????   

 

For sure the pensioners living in Australia couldn't care less.  Why would they, it doesn't effect them one bit.

Edited May 5, 2022 by KhunHeineken

[Will27]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

So, if it's folks receiving the basic OAP plus some small benefits (and the easy to search C'link records indicate the pensioner has no other income and no property anywhere) then perhaps the level of per annum income would be under/well under what the ATO would want to spend time and resources on?

I'd say so.

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

So, if it's folks receiving the basic OAP plus some small benefits (and the easy to search C'link records indicate the pensioner has no other income and no property anywhere) then perhaps the level of per annum income would be under/well under what the ATO would want to spend time and resources on?

Ahhhh, The Paul Hogan theory.  ????  

 

The non resident tax rate from $0 to $120,000 is 32.5%, from dollar number one. Scroll down for non resident rates.  They are harsh, and will have a financial impact on people these new laws will effect.  

 

https://www.exfin.com/australian-tax-rates

 

No time and resources needed.  Computer data bases do everything.  No applications for a review, or appeals.  183 days is 183 days.    

Edited May 5, 2022 by KhunHeineken

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, deej said:

What caught my eye during my own research ,most major  changes to our portable pension,s Etc Etc over the last  20  yrs approx,

it only applied to new Applicant,s , rest were left alone,  Or grand fathered in,so to speak.

And from memory, the last major  change  was 2014.

So all rest easy ????????????the odd,s are in our favour

 

 

 

I'd be interested in any link you could provide showing the historical changes and exemptions. (grandfathering) 

 

Why would they "grandfather" in expats, after they have gone to all the trouble and expense to draft legislation that is designed to tax expats?   

[KhunHeineken]

51 minutes ago, deej said:

Go to WWW. DSS.COM.AU????

It's a disability support website.  

 

I think you have just lost any credibility you may have had.  ????

[Will27]

36 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

It's a disability support website.  

 

I think you have just lost any credibility you may have had.  ????

You never had any to start with, you annoying fallopian tube.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

7 hours ago, Old Croc said:

I've never applied for nor received a cent of the OAP (or whatever it's called now), but do receive a superannuation pension from my years slaving for the govt.

It is taxed, but at a reasonable, residents rate. This proposed way of taxing my stipend would definitely hurt, and affect my lifestyle. I decided some time ago that I will never return to Australia

My on-line tax form comes prefilled by ATO, all I do each year is confirm the detail. I will be waiting with some trepidation to see how it is completed this year.

I'll be in the same boat as you in a few years. I can't quite see how you could not be taxed on your government superannuation pension as a non resident if you stay in Thailand all year but not my business. Someone had told me that the nature of getting a defined benefit pension made it easier to be a resident of Australia but I have seen nothing to back that up. 

I am curious too, about an issue a different poster raised, as to if concessions that apply to over 60's for residents, can apply to non residents, or if the latter are treated the same at any age. Hard to find details on such issues.

Six months there and six months in Australia might be necessary in my case. 

Edited May 5, 2022 by Fat is a type of crazy