Australian Aged Pension

[Lacessit]

4 minutes ago, Tom A Hawk said:

From what the other guy on here says a lot, isn't it border force that is going to start the audit by telling the ATO and CL about every Aussie outside of Australia for more than 6 months? 

 

I don't really have much for them to audit accept for me being outside of Australia and maybe owing them 30% more tax because I am overseas. 

The other guy says a lot, none of which has come to fruition.

Border Force communicates with Centrelink, AFAIK it does not communicate with the ATO.

Your choice - be a worrywart, or wait and see.

[Tom A Hawk]

19 hours ago, Will27 said:

Pretty much correct.

The ATO performs audits on occupation, dob-ins (not all obviously) and like you said, randomly.

 

The chances of getting a random audit on a low income are pretty remote.

Like you said, in most cases, it's not worth the time or effort.

From reading all the chit chat on this forum, isn't it border force that is gonna dob us all in to the ATO because we are living overseas and they know that?

[Tom A Hawk]

19 hours ago, Lacessit said:

You are assuming Border Force communicates everyone's whereabouts to the ATO. IMO the ATO are too busy to keep track of everyone's location, even if they were given the information.

 

It would be difficult for the ATO to classify someone as an expat if said expat was locked out of Australia due to COVID. I have been in Thailand non-stop for 3 years, no-one has said anything. Prior to that, I was returning to Australia every six months.

 

I have no idea what time frame converts one to expat status. As previously stated, it depends on individual circumstances.

At the moment I think border force tell CL but not the ATO.  Going from info on this forum and the internet, if the new rules come in, isn't that time frame gonna be 6 months.  After that, border force will tell the ATO you are living overseas and not on a holiday.

[Tom A Hawk]

12 hours ago, scorecard said:

I went back to Oz to submit my OAP application as reqired. I'd been living outside of Oz for nearly 30 years.

 

I flew into Sydney, next day I went to the local big C'link office to get a CRN number and to prove my identity. All easy and plesant.

 

The pleasant / polite C.link lady had noticed I had put a thck pile of papers with a clip on the side of her desk.

 

She asked "Is that your OAP application and Asset and Income statements?" I replied "YES"

 

She continued "Is it completed?" I replied "Yes, I think it's ready to submit."

 

She continued "Would you like me to scan your application to be sure it's ready?" I responded "yes please".

 

She looked carefully at each question on the OAP application form then looked at the box I had ticked, then the next question.

 

She got to the section where the OAP applicant has to enter their personl ATO number and she said politely "Do you understand why the application form asks for your tax personal tax file number?"

I responed "NO".

 

She continued:

- "To be eligible for the OAP you have to have at some time in the past paid Australian personal Tax*. When / how long you paid, total paid is not relevant."

"Quoting your Tax file number (no other detail) is seen as proof that you have sometime in the past paid personal Australian tax".

(* She also mentioned there are a few exceptions to this policy but very rarely accepted.). 

 

She continued "When you submit your application it goes direct, online to C.link HO in Canberra and It's processed by computer, your application is not processed at a local C.link office."

 

She continued, when the receiving computer in Canberra sees your personal tax file number the computer automatically:

- Ticks a box that you have fulfilled the requirement that you have at some time in the past paid Australian tax.

- Then deletes your personal tax file number from the C'link records.

 

The C.link lady continued, "C'link doesn't actively work with the ATO and gov't policy is that ATO records are totally private."

 

Can things change?

Yes of course, change is part of life. 

 

Further... when the 2 years back in Oz almot completed I called the 132 300 Older Australians Line.

I said to the C'link officer "i'm not sure i understand what 'portability' means. She looked at her screen then said:

- in 10 days time you will be entitled to 'portability', which means you are entitled to receive the standard OAP payments and supplement for the rest of your life anywhere in the world. And If you wish to live abroad C.link will change you to the 4 weekly payments cycle and transfer your 4 weekly payments to any bank you nominate anywhere in the world, it can be an account in your own name or a joint savings account. 

- She continued 'If you need more advice or help to make this happen please call again.

 

She cntinued "You will need to submit a new form quoting all your bank details abroad, and as she was talking she had e.mailed the blank form to me. She continued, "please don't forget to complete the details then take the form to your bank abroad and get them to sign the form and add their bank stamp".

She continued "I have added the secure C.link e.mail address where you need to return the completed banking form.

 

I asked " do i have to get permission to depart OZ?" She responded:

 

- The C.link policy is that you should advise C'link of your ravel plans but it's not compulsory.

 

- Within 48 hrs of e.mailing the completed new banking details form I got a call from C'link, the poliye young man said "This call is just to be sure there's no errors in reading your new bank account number" he continued "I willl say 2 numbers the stop and can you please cnfirm I ave said the correct number, then 2 more and 2 more numbers until it's all completed".

 

Then he asked me to do the same process in reverse.

 

Then he mentioned 'It will take a few weeks to get you fully into the 4 weekly cycle, the he quoted and repeated dates and amounts.

 

The payments arrived into K bank as he had quoted. 

Maybe that's how they will do it.  They will link our tax file numbers to our passport numbers behind the scenes. 

[Lacessit]

5 minutes ago, Tom A Hawk said:

Maybe that's how they will do it.  They will link our tax file numbers to our passport numbers behind the scenes. 

I am starting to suspect you are KH posting under a different nom-de-plume.

[scorecard]

34 minutes ago, Tom A Hawk said:

That's the way it works now but what about if the new rules come in?  Will the ATO start putting the 30% tax on everyone because they will know you are living overseas?

Here we go again.

 

What new rules?

 

The profit of doom has certainly got folks all worked up and caused total (repeat total) confusion.

 

There's no evidence of existing policies/regulations or discussion re same about taxing old age pensions regardlessof location. 

 

It's been said a million times before, in multiple scenarios, Oz old age pension is not subject to taxation.

 

 

[Tom A Hawk]

14 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I am starting to suspect you are KH posting under a different nom-de-plume.

Nope.  I read everyone's comments and come up with my own ideas.  I agree with the other guy when he says the new rules will come in.  I agree with you that I am a small fry and not worth their time to chase.  I agree with don't sweat it until it happens, if it happens, but have a plan for it.  

 

I know we all have different circumstances but as expats we all have a few things in common.  They are, we are all living overseas, and we are all getting our money from somewhere, but most getting it from Australia.  As a new expat in Thailand, what I don't get is why we all have different experiences with CL and the ATO.  Why did that guy in the video I put up get the letter in MyGov and others didn't?  Why did some guys get questions from CL and others didn't.  

 

If these new rules come in will we still all have different experiences or be treated all the same?  

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, Tom A Hawk said:

Nope.  I read everyone's comments and come up with my own ideas.  I agree with the other guy when he says the new rules will come in.  I agree with you that I am a small fry and not worth their time to chase.  I agree with don't sweat it until it happens, if it happens, but have a plan for it.  

 

I know we all have different circumstances but as expats we all have a few things in common.  They are, we are all living overseas, and we are all getting our money from somewhere, but most getting it from Australia.  As a new expat in Thailand, what I don't get is why we all have different experiences with CL and the ATO.  Why did that guy in the video I put up get the letter in MyGov and others didn't?  Why did some guys get questions from CL and others didn't.  

 

If these new rules come in will we still all have different experiences or be treated all the same?  

I have no idea. Be advised if you post repeatedly on the same refrain, said posts will meet the same fate as quite a few of KH's.

[scorecard]

5 minutes ago, Tom A Hawk said:

Nope.  I read everyone's comments and come up with my own ideas.  I agree with the other guy when he says the new rules will come in.  I agree with you that I am a small fry and not worth their time to chase.  I agree with don't sweat it until it happens, if it happens, but have a plan for it.  

 

I know we all have different circumstances but as expats we all have a few things in common.  They are, we are all living overseas, and we are all getting our money from somewhere, but most getting it from Australia.  As a new expat in Thailand, what I don't get is why we all have different experiences with CL and the ATO.  Why did that guy in the video I put up get the letter in MyGov and others didn't?  Why did some guys get questions from CL and others didn't.  

 

If these new rules come in will we still all have different experiences or be treated all the same?  

Here's a suggestion; since you're so new, why not just lock your keyboard and read comments for the next 10 years but don't post. 

 

Yes there's posts re CL which might seem to conflict but keep in mind Cl administers multiple scenarios therefore different actions. 

 

Please take a long long sleep.

 

I blocked the other guy many months ago. Within 2 or 3 minutes you will also be blocked.

Edited June 28, 2023 by scorecard

[Tom A Hawk]

5 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Here we go again.

 

What new rules?

 

The profit of doom has certainly got folks all worked up and caused total (repeat total) confusion.

 

There's no evidence of existing policies/regulations or discussion re same about taxing old age pensions regardlessof location. 

 

It's been said a million times before, in multiple scenarios, Oz old age pension is not subject to taxation.

 

 

I tried to confirm what Heineken was saying.  I posted a youtube video.  The guy in that video, who I think is an accountant and has a business in Thailand, says if you sell your house and cut all ties you will have to pay 30% on your pension but you will still be ahead because of the lower cost of living.  

 

Can you put something up on here saying an old age pension will not be taxed?

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, Tom A Hawk said:

I tried to confirm what Heineken was saying.  I posted a youtube video.  The guy in that video, who I think is an accountant and has a business in Thailand, says if you sell your house and cut all ties you will have to pay 30% on your pension but you will still be ahead because of the lower cost of living.  

 

Can you put something up on here saying an old age pension will not be taxed?

Can you put up something that says it will? That video you cite is a what if, as usual.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Lacessit

[Tom A Hawk]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I have no idea. Be advised if you post repeatedly on the same refrain, said posts will meet the same fate as quite a few of KH's.

I don't want to have a blue about it.  I just want facts with a bit of opinion, not opinion with a bit of facts.  

[scorecard]

2 minutes ago, Tom A Hawk said:

I don't want to have a blue about it.  I just want facts with a bit of opinion, not opinion with a bit of facts.  

Go away, for a vry long time, you're already very boring.

[Tom A Hawk]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

Can you put up something that says it will? That video you cite is a what if, as usual.

You guys have all put up a lot of info since this came to light. I just tried to confirm some of it and watched some youtube video.  I only put up two videos out of the many I watched.   I said before you don't believe everything you see on the internet so I googled that guy's name in the video and found he has his own financial services business in Australia.  To me, he came across as knowing what he was talking about.  

 

No.  I am not the guy in the video.  

[Lacessit]

3 minutes ago, Tom A Hawk said:

I don't want to have a blue about it.  I just want facts with a bit of opinion, not opinion with a bit of facts.  

OK, here's a fact for you. A score of one approval point after 29 posts. If you can't see an indicator your posts are repeating the pattern established by KH, I give up.

[Tom A Hawk]

Just now, Lacessit said:

OK, here's a fact for you. A score of one approval point after 29 posts. If you can't see an indicator your posts are repeating the pattern established by KH, I give up.

No idea what you are talking about but I am out of here.  

[Will27]

33 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Here we go again.

 

What new rules?

 

The profit of doom has certainly got folks all worked up and caused total (repeat total) confusion.

 

There's no evidence of existing policies/regulations or discussion re same about taxing old age pensions regardlessof location. 

 

It's been said a million times before, in multiple scenarios, Oz old age pension is not subject to taxation.

 

 

The old age pension is taxable, but if it's your only source of income, you won't pay any tax.

It still has to be included in your tax return if you lodge one.

[Olmate]

1 minute ago, Will27 said:

The old age pension is taxable, but if it's your only source of income, you won't pay any tax.

It still has to be included in your tax return if you lodge one.

Yes.. pension earned is pre loaded onto your return virtu of clink having your TFN. As you say its under threshold so you can opt to not submit a yearly return.

[Will27]

I was talking about residency rates.

 

I agree in general with your sentiments and have said the same many times.

[Lacessit]

It's actually a bit screwy, someone earning $100K or $300K offshore is worse off if they are classed as non-resident. If it's $200K, the tax payable is about the same irrespective of residency status.

[LosLobo]

In theory pay tax on the first dollar?

 

What about the ATO Senior Offsets even applicable to aged non-residents.

 

With tax advice as with medical advice the bottom line is to always consult a professional.

 

Advice here can sometimes be a helpful guide but compliance with regulations, at the end of the day, is always the person's own responsibility.

 

[LosLobo]

54 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Yes.. pension earned is pre loaded onto your return virtu of clink having your TFN. As you say its under threshold so you can opt to not submit a yearly return.

Yes, when I went on the pension, I had already done a final tax return and this notified the ATO that I didn't envisage that I would exceed any thresholds to pay tax. 

 

But if this changed I would still need to submit a return.

[Artisi]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Here we go again.

 

What new rules?

 

The profit of doom has certainly got folks all worked up and caused total (repeat total) confusion.

 

There's no evidence of existing policies/regulations or discussion re same about taxing old age pensions regardlessof location. 

 

It's been said a million times before, in multiple scenarios, Oz old age pension is not subject to taxation.

 

 

Old age pension by itself is not taxable as its below the tax free margin, however, if you have other income from investments, real estate income etc, it along with the pension has to be figured into your yearly tax return - if the total is still below the tax free threshold there is no tax payable. 

[Olmate]

10 minutes ago, Artisi said:

Old age pension by itself is not taxable as its below the tax free margin, however, if you have other income from investments, real estate income etc, it along with the pension has to be figured into your yearly tax return - if the total is still below the tax free threshold there is no tax payable. 

As of July1 the threshold has been increased meaning some on part OAP may now be eligble.(Article on yahoo finance)today

[Fat is a type of crazy]

47 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

In theory pay tax on the first dollar?

 

What about the ATO Senior Offsets even applicable to aged non-residents.

 

With tax advice as with medical advice the bottom line is to always consult a professional.

 

Advice here can sometimes be a helpful guide but compliance with regulations, at the end of the day, is always the person's own responsibility.

 

Good point. It seems then that for a single person the tax for a non resident would knock out the offset at about the $7000 income mark i.e. tax rate of 32.5 cents and maximum offset for a single person of $2230. Less for couples.

This assumes for a single that total income is less than $50119 to get some benefit or $32279 to get whole benefit based on shading rules. Could be other factors I don't know about so calculations may be off.  Getting advice sounds like a good idea if this becomes a thing. 

Seniors and pensioners tax offset | Australian Taxation Office (ato.gov.au)

[Fat is a type of crazy]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

It's actually a bit screwy, someone earning $100K or $300K offshore is worse off if they are classed as non-resident. If it's $200K, the tax payable is about the same irrespective of residency status.

If you are deemed a non resident you generally don't have to pay tax in Australia on a range of foreign income types so I think it can be advantage for those people, at all income levels, to be deemed a non resident assuming they are paying a lower rate of tax in the other country. 

[LosLobo]

42 minutes ago, Olmate said:

As of July1 the threshold has been increased meaning some on part OAP may now be eligble.(Article on yahoo finance)today

The article is about the pension increasing not taxation thresholds.

 

This will increase the amount of taxation liability not the threshold.

 

But I suggest that it would logical to increase thresholds due to inflation too or eventually in time everyone would be paying 45% tax.

 

Major age pension changes coming from July 1 (yahoo.com)

 

[KhunHeineken]

On 6/26/2023 at 6:09 AM, Olmate said:

With a postit marked 'good time to bash expat OAP'!! 

More like a postit marked, "the country is broke, we need every dollar from everywhere." 

[Olmate]

19 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

More like a postit marked, "the country is broke, we need every dollar from everywhere." 

Chalmers anounces todaybiggest Budget surplus! Keep up, us expats need you!! ????

[KhunHeineken]

9 hours ago, scorecard said:

It's been said a million times before, in multiple scenarios, Oz old age pension is not subject to taxation.

scorecard, this post, like many other of yours, goes beyond misleading and inaccurate to just plain wrong.  This would usually result in me posting a link, a link I would have posted numerous times before, which results in members reporting me for posting the same link many times.

 

I have posted many links showing the pension is deemed an income and is therefore taxable.  I will not post them again for the reason given above.

 

I see other members have corrected you.  If you don't believe me then believe them, but stop posting wrong information that has been debunked time and time again with credible links.