Australian Aged Pension

[KhunHeineken]

On 11/14/2023 at 3:38 PM, scorecard said:

 

I've since spoken to  C'link on the Older Aussies contact number (free from Thailand), I asked two questions:

 

1. "how many Aussie old age penioners who receive the full entitlement receive their payment on the 4 weekly cycle / payment transferred abroad?" I also asked

2. "is this type of data confidential?"

 

Her answers:

 

1. After checking she said "less than 1% of full OAP recipients receive their payments into their bank abroad on the 4 weekly cycle".

 

2. "This data is not confidential. C'link's policy is to be as transparent as possible". 

Once again, irrelevant, as immigration knows we are outside of Australia for 45/183 days.

 

If only it was as simple as moving money offshore once a year. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 11/14/2023 at 11:10 AM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Mate - stay out of it please - you are embassing yourself.

The SAPTO is a tax offset of up to $2,230 for singles. 

And go do your own research - type in Social Security Act.

Actualloy that requires high level reading skills - try this mate - Using the Social Security Guide | Social Security Guide (dss.gov.au)

 

You quoted "the Act" so you should link it, and highlight the relevant information in your narrative. 

Edited December 6, 2023 by KhunHeineken

[KhunHeineken]

On 11/14/2023 at 12:13 PM, LosLobo said:

I suggest that your previous statement 'that is in the Act', remains only your opinion and the onus is on you to prove otherwise, and it is not for me to find it, mate!

 

I agree, and well said. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 11/23/2023 at 4:49 AM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

All good - we all sumtimes get it rong and missspel words and use bad grummer two.

 

Many pensioners are hoping you are right, and their pension is tax free, no matter where they chose to live in the world, so please post a link to "the Act" with the relevant clause of information that sets this out so the champagne can start flowing.  

[KhunHeineken]

On 12/4/2023 at 5:54 AM, Nemises said:

Returning to Australia for 2 years to qualify for the aged pension? Add another 6 months before seeing any payments:

 

 

Tens of thousands of older Aussies are waiting months to have their Age Pension applications approved, due to a massive backlog at Centrelink, an anonymous source at Services Australia has said.

The delay means many people are having to eat into retirement savings to make ends meet and some are even having to delay important medical appointments while they wait for their health care card application to be processed.

A source at Services Australia, who asked not to be named, told The West Australian the backlog for new Age Pension claims stood at more than 30,000 in late November, with some applications dating back to early June.

 

https://www.yourlifechoices.com.au/centrelink/age-pension/centrelink-backlog-causing-massive-age-pension-delays/

 

 

They should have geared up for the aging population, but no. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 12/4/2023 at 7:37 AM, scorecard said:

4.5 years back I returned and applied, all approved within 18 days and received pleasant phone call (at 18 days) from polite young male officer, all explained very clearly and as he indicated a letter in my mail box the next day (same details as phone call) with a direct line no (132 300) to call if I had any questions. Day after phone call, late morning, the back payment was in my Aussie bank account. 

One post you are a veteran on a services pension, and previously living in housing for veterans in Australia, and then on another post you are on an aged pension and ringing Centerlink. 

 

You can't have both pensions.

 

Can you state, once and for all, what pension you are on?   

[Lacessit]

54 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

How much detail does it give the immigration department to unravel - ZERO.

 

They will be the ones to inform Centerlink / ATO you have been outside of Australia for 45 / 183 days.  All done by a computer.  

I have sad news for you. No-one is going to give a sh!t when you crack 500 posts on this thread.

[KhunHeineken]

11 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I have sad news for you. No-one is going to give a sh!t when you crack 500 posts on this thread.

That's not sad news to me, coming from a troll who offers no content to this thread other than personally attacking every post I make. 

 

Water off a ducks back for me, and I have never reported anyone else's posts, ever. 

[Yeah rightio]

On 12/6/2023 at 9:41 PM, KhunHeineken said:

Eagerly awaiting "the Act" link. 

Ok it's not from the legislation but; it is from the horse's mouth so to speak......

https://community.ato.gov.au/s/question/a0J9s0000002ngF/p00172380

 

.....and below from DSS.

So how would you suggest they go about taxing anyone who no longer has a TFN?

Proposed legislation or much ado about nothing!!

 

https://guides.dss.gov.au/social-security-guide/8/1/3/20

 

Person overseas

Non-resident applicants or applicants who are residing overseas at the time of claim may be granted a TFN exemption and may be exempted indefinitely. An applicant and their partner who are overseas cannot generally have payments stopped for failure to provide TFN information. These applicants are normally paid by CIS. If an applicant returns, or indicates an intention to return, a review should be conducted to request TFN information.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Yeah rightio
Extra info

[scorecard]

4 hours ago, Yeah rightio said:

Ok it's not from the legislation but; it is from the horse's mouth so to speak......

https://community.ato.gov.au/s/question/a0J9s0000002ngF/p00172380

 

.....and below from DSS.

So how would you suggest they go about taxing anyone who no longer has a TFN?

Proposed legislation or much ado about nothing!!

 

https://guides.dss.gov.au/social-security-guide/8/1/3/20

 

Person overseas

Non-resident applicants or applicants who are residing overseas at the time of claim may be granted a TFN exemption and may be exempted indefinitely. An applicant and their partner who are overseas cannot generally have payments stopped for failure to provide TFN information. These applicants are normally paid by CIS. If an applicant returns, or indicates an intention to return, a review should be conducted to request TFN information.

thanks for that.

 

A bit more:

 

atocommunity

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What is the tax treatment of Australian age pension when living abroad?

An abridged inquiry:

... retiring o'seas soon on Oz OAP.  will be non-OZ resident for tax purposes ...therefore I will not have  benefit of the tax threshold. My basic tax calculation on ATO site show that I will be paying approx. 30% tax on the age pension, where there would be no tax if resided in Australia. Is this correct?

 

Answer frp https...community.ato.gov.au... follows...

 

Not quite.

 

As an Australian resident for tax purposes, you would pay income tax according to resident rates. This means you'd be eligible for the tax-free threshold up to $18,200, and your tax on the income between $18,200 and $45,000 would be 19c per dollar. You would need to report and pay tax on your worldwide income, not just the age pension.

 

As a foreign resident for tax purposes, you will pay income tax according to foreign resident rates. This means for all income under $180k, you'll pay 32.5c per dollar. You would only report and pay tax on your Australian-sourced income to us.

 

You'll likely be eligible for the seniors and pensioners tax offset (SAPTO) though, meaning you'll get a tax offset to help counter the tax payable. You don't have to be a resident for tax purposes to receive this.

 

You can read about individual income tax rates and SAPTO on our website.

 

further... 32.5cents in the dollar... on Oz oap income????

 

I've seen it mentioned many times on C.link docs that the OAP is exempt from tax.   (Also DVA mentions that all DVA disability compensation payments are exempt from tax.

 

So now totally confused, can someone more knowledgeable please advise.

 

(With all respect username khun heinekin...,please do not reply.)

 

 

 

[Artisi]

4 minutes ago, scorecard said:

thanks for that.

 

A bit more:

 

atocommunity

Join nowSign in

ATO Community

 / Your Tax & Super

 / Income & Deductions

What is the tax treatment of Australian age pension when living abroad?

An abridged inquiry:

... retiring o'seas soon on Oz OAP.  will be non-OZ resident for tax purposes ...therefore I will not have  benefit of the tax threshold. My basic tax calculation on ATO site show that I will be paying approx. 30% tax on the age pension, where there would be no tax if resided in Australia. Is this correct?

 

Answer frp https...community.ato.gov.au... follows...

 

Not quite.

 

As an Australian resident for tax purposes, you would pay income tax according to resident rates. This means you'd be eligible for the tax-free threshold up to $18,200, and your tax on the income between $18,200 and $45,000 would be 19c per dollar. You would need to report and pay tax on your worldwide income, not just the age pension.

 

As a foreign resident for tax purposes, you will pay income tax according to foreign resident rates. This means for all income under $180k, you'll pay 32.5c per dollar. You would only report and pay tax on your Australian-sourced income to us.

 

You'll likely be eligible for the seniors and pensioners tax offset (SAPTO) though, meaning you'll get a tax offset to help counter the tax payable. You don't have to be a resident for tax purposes to receive this.

 

You can read about individual income tax rates and SAPTO on our website.

 

further... 32.5cents in the dollar... on Oz oap income????

 

I've seen it mentioned many times on C.link docs that the OAP is exempt from tax.   (Also DVA mentions that all DVA disability compensation payments are exempt from tax.

 

So now totally confused, can someone more knowledgeable please advise.

 

(With all respect username khun heinekin...,please do not reply.)

 

 

 

It's all very confusing and unknown at the moment. 

My understanding is, if it passes into law and you're out of the country for more than 183 days in any tax year you will be deemed no-resident for tax purposes  - that means all income from zero will be taxed at 32. 5%

Seems immigration and centrelink will be reporting / vetting your residence status to understand your comings and goings. 

 

So who really knows at this point, guess time will tell after another few hundred posts on the subject. 

 

[scorecard]

22 minutes ago, Artisi said:

It's all very confusing and unknown at the moment. 

My understanding is, if it passes into law and you're out of the country for more than 183 days in any tax year you will be deemed no-resident for tax purposes  - that means all income from zero will be taxed at 32. 5%

Seems immigration and centrelink will be reporting / vetting your residence status to understand your comings and goings. 

 

So who really knows at this point, guess time will tell after another few hundred posts on the subject. 

 

So perhaps possible that 'the OAP is tax exempt' may not be true in the future, in regard to OAP recipients living abroad.

 

As said... we wait and see. 

[Artisi]

45 minutes ago, scorecard said:

So perhaps possible that 'the OAP is tax exempt' may not be true in the future, in regard to OAP recipients living abroad.

 

As said... we wait and see. 

The OAP was never tax exempt, it just fell below the tax free threshold but needed to be included if you had other earnings. 

[scorecard]

57 minutes ago, Artisi said:

The OAP was never tax exempt, it just fell below the tax free threshold but needed to be included if you had other earnings. 

So I guess that means that Oz folks living abroad who have no other income will still be under the threshold and regardless of location/ resident / non-resident.  

[Will27]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

So I guess that means that Oz folks living abroad who have no other income will still be under the threshold and regardless of location/ resident / non-resident.  

Incorrect.

 

If you're deemed to be a non-resident, there is no tax free threshold.

In other words, you're taxed from your first dollar.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Will27

[Artisi]

9 minutes ago, Will27 said:

Incorrect.

 

If you're deemed to be a non-resident, there is no tax free threshold.

In other words, you're taxed from your first dollar.

that's correct, but circumvented currently, that why the 183 day rule is currently on the books. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 12/8/2023 at 12:59 AM, Yeah rightio said:

So how would you suggest they go about taxing anyone who no longer has a TFN?

Proposed legislation or much ado about nothing!!

Tax File Numbers are like driving license numbers.  You get one, and it's yours for life.  

 

Most Aussie expats have lived and worked in Australia at some stage, thus, they have a TFN.  You could open a bank account and stuff all your money in that account, and not tell the bank your TFN, but all the bank does then is tax the interest at the highest marginal rate, which is something like $0.48 in the dollar, on every account where a TFN hasn't been supplied. 

 

So, how would you suggest an Australian lives, works, banks, and retires, without a TFN? 

[KhunHeineken]

On 12/8/2023 at 6:00 AM, scorecard said:

I've seen it mentioned many times on C.link docs that the OAP is exempt from tax.   (Also DVA mentions that all DVA disability compensation payments are exempt from tax.

 

So now totally confused, can someone more knowledgeable please advise.

Exempt for Australian residents for tax purposes.  No exemption for non residents for tax purposes. 

 

Non resident tax rates start at $0 for 32.5%.  There is no tax free threshold for non residents, no matter what the source of the income is. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 12/8/2023 at 6:17 AM, Artisi said:

It's all very confusing and unknown at the moment. 

My understanding is, if it passes into law and you're out of the country for more than 183 days in any tax year you will be deemed no-resident for tax purposes  - that means all income from zero will be taxed at 32. 5%

Seems immigration and centrelink will be reporting / vetting your residence status to understand your comings and goings. 

 

So who really knows at this point, guess time will tell after another few hundred posts on the subject. 

 

I agree with your summary, and you are correct.  It really is as simple as that, and that's because the government needs it to be. 

 

After so much discussion, links, Youtube clips etc etc, some people still don't get it.  Amazing Thailand. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 12/8/2023 at 6:42 AM, scorecard said:

So perhaps possible that 'the OAP is tax exempt' may not be true in the future, in regard to OAP recipients living abroad.

 

As said... we wait and see. 

It's been discussed for months, and you only no just realize the possible impact?

 

Yes, wait and see, but as it stands, there are no exemptions, no new tax free threshold added to the non resident tax brackets, and no means testing to the proposed changes.  What does this tell you?

 

The government is well aware of thousands of pensioners retired overseas.  If they didn't want some of their pension money back, they would have included one or more of the above in the proposed changes.  They didn't. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 12/8/2023 at 8:30 AM, scorecard said:

So I guess that means that Oz folks living abroad who have no other income will still be under the threshold and regardless of location/ resident / non-resident.  

 

Posted yet again. 

 

Do you see a tax free threshold?

 

Your pension is deemed to be an income.  (links previously provided)

 

You are living in Thailand, therefore a non resident for tax purposes. 

 

There is no tax free threshold for non residents.  (see below) 

 

Thus, 32.5% of your pension MAY BE withheld in the future.  It's as simple as that. 

 

Foreign resident tax rates 2023–24

Taxable income	Tax on this income
0 – $120,000	32.5c for each $1
$120,001 – $180,000	$39,000 plus 37c for each $1 over $120,000
$180,001 and over	$61,200 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000

[KhunHeineken]

On 12/8/2023 at 9:50 AM, Will27 said:

Incorrect.

 

If you're deemed to be a non-resident, there is no tax free threshold.

In other words, you're taxed from your first dollar.

Correct. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 12/8/2023 at 10:02 AM, Artisi said:

that's correct, but circumvented currently, that why the 183 day rule is currently on the books. 

Exactly.

 

We have all been getting away with it for decades.  The proposed changes is not a new tax.  The proposed changes just allow the government to collect taxes that non residents should already be paying.  

[Lacessit]

20 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Exactly.

 

We have all been getting away with it for decades.  The proposed changes is not a new tax.  The proposed changes just allow the government to collect taxes that non residents should already be paying.  

I am wondering how many times you have replaced the pigskin on the drum you are beating.

[4MyEgo]

23 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I am wondering how many times you have replaced the pigskin on the drum you are beating.

 

He really should try playing Lotto, he'd probably have better odds of getting that than predicting that the Oz government is going to tax pensioners living abroad, but yet, he keeps beating the drums to annoy his neighbours. 

 

He obviously didn't want to read what I posted on the other page about pensioners would only be about $120 a week worse off after registering for SAPTO, which means that they would still be getting around 45,000 baht a month Vs about 50,000 baht a month.

 

He might be both, blind and deaf banging it out.

Edited December 10, 2023 by 4MyEgo

[KhunHeineken]

23 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I am wondering how many times you have replaced the pigskin on the drum you are beating.

So, there is a member with over 28k posts, who is very active on this thread, and who has been highly critical of my posts in the past, possibly to the point of putting me on "ignore" who, after months and months, hundreds of posts, many links, and some Youtube clips,  who has only just in the last few days learnt / accepted there is no tax free threshold in the non resident tax brackets.

 

Perhaps I need a louder drum. 

 

Of course, no content from you to help him out, just another off topic, baiting, flame, troll post.  (not reported) 

[KhunHeineken]

39 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

He really should try playing Lotto, he'd probably have better odds of getting that than predicting that the Oz government is going to tax pensioners living abroad,

Everyone, not just pensioners.

 

I'm not on a pension, and have been getting away with it for years, as are many of my friends. 

 

It's been proven that expat pensioners should be paying non resident tax, but they have also been getting away with it for years.  (see Bob / Blake link) 

 

Th party couldn't last forever. 

 

If the proposed changes are not about the government closing loopholes for EVERYONE, what do you think they are about?  There's no exemption for pensions mentioned in the changes.  No new tax free threshold in the non resident tax brackets. 

 

You have already done the math.  Sounds like you are preparing for worse case scenario, yet say I have a better chance predicting the lotto numbers.  What a contradiction. 

 

39 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

He obviously didn't want to read what I posted on the other page about pensioners would only be about $120 a week worse off after registering for SAPTO, which means that they would still be getting around 45,000 baht a month Vs about 50,000 baht a month.

 

I'm sure everyone will be pleased if they lose $120 a week from their pension.  Should this happen, what will you post? 

 

And I did reply to that post.  Look again. 

Edited December 10, 2023 by KhunHeineken

[4MyEgo]

6 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Everyone, not just pensioners.

 

This topic is about Australian Aged Pensioners.

 

7 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

I'm sure everyone will be pleased if they lose $120 a week from their pension.  Should this happen, what will you post? 

 

There has to be a focus on what you have beaten to a pulp, over and over and over again, now should this happen then it's $120 a week pensioners will lose, now if they can't live on 45,000 baht a month in Thailand, then perhaps they didn't get it right in their lives, i.e. leaving your retirement in the hands of the government to provide you with a pension that wouldn't last you in Oz, let alone most places, is what it is, I am not going to judge those on the pension, but I would never put myself in such a vulnerable position to affect my quality of life, but of I had to survive on that amount here in Thailand, I could do it, so let's just stop beating the drums shall we. It gets annoying, we know what the impact will be, if the meteorite hits. i.e. $120 week, so lets give it a rest until and if it does happen.

 

14 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

And I did reply to that post.  Look again

 

Yet her we are.

[4MyEgo]

18 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

who has only just in the last few days learnt / accepted there is no tax free threshold in the non resident tax brackets.

 

Who cares, seriously, go back to beating your drums elsewhere, this topic is about Australian Aged Pensioners, move along or I will report you.

[Lacessit]

21 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

So, there is a member with over 28k posts, who is very active on this thread, and who has been highly critical of my posts in the past, possibly to the point of putting me on "ignore" who, after months and months, hundreds of posts, many links, and some Youtube clips,  who has only just in the last few days learnt / accepted there is no tax free threshold in the non resident tax brackets.

 

Perhaps I need a louder drum. 

 

Of course, no content from you to help him out, just another off topic, baiting, flame, troll post.  (not reported) 

I don't care if you report anything I post.

The fact is you have made never-ending repetitive posts on exactly the same theme, which is trolling by any standard. AFAIK moderators have told you several times to cease and desist, you obviously ignore them.

I will continue to post whatever I want to say about you, until instructed otherwise.

Get yourself appointed as a moderator if I am a thorn in your side. You would probably enjoy the power trip.