Australian Aged Pension

[fishhooks]

So, how do they (CL) deem that you must serve this 2 year probation period after 65, before becoming eligible for the pension payments.

One could be a fairly regular visitor to Thailand have a Thai wife and NOT be a property owner in Thailand, so where is the yardstick that you are not really residing in Australia, assuming that you own your home in Oz and spend most of each year in Oz.

Seems to me that CL would need to have a very specific formula to determine "if" or "if not" you need to serve this probation.

Other than a trip to Hobart and sitting down with a reasonable CL officer (I wouldn't trust phone conversations, even if you get the name, rank and serial number)

This is a very informative thread and with many of us in the Baby Boomer category at this time, would be well worth keeping this thread alive with practical experiences.

Agree that the new government may be a tad more receptive to the type of concerns raised here, but this will I feel may need many representations to local members of parliament and much time.

This OAP should be based on what we have done within the country over our working lives, not where we choose to ride out our time now.

In actual fact, OA Pensioners residing overseas are less of a drain on the nation's resources such as Medicare, Public Hospitals, HealthCards, SeniorCards etc.

[Nignoy]

So, how do they (CL) deem that you must serve this 2 year probation period after 65, before becoming eligible for the pension payments.

One could be a fairly regular visitor to Thailand have a Thai wife and NOT be a property owner in Thailand, so where is the yardstick that you are not really residing in Australia, assuming that you own your home in Oz and spend most of each year in Oz.

Seems to me that CL would need to have a very specific formula to determine "if" or "if not" you need to serve this probation.

Other than a trip to Hobart and sitting down with a reasonable CL officer (I wouldn't trust phone conversations, even if you get the name, rank and serial number)

This is a very informative thread and with many of us in the Baby Boomer category at this time, would be well worth keeping this thread alive with practical experiences.

Agree that the new government may be a tad more receptive to the type of concerns raised here, but this will I feel may need many representations to local members of parliament and much time.

This OAP should be based on what we have done within the country over our working lives, not where we choose to ride out our time now.

In actual fact, OA Pensioners residing overseas are less of a drain on the nation's resources such as Medicare, Public Hospitals, HealthCards, SeniorCards etc.

Centrelink have no specific formular for dealing with OAPS residing overseas,their staff are so knowledgable,We were amazed a few years ago to be interviewed by a young man who was adamant that Taiwan was the capitol of Thailand and Taiwanese was a dialect spoken in the capitol,he also could not spell to save his life, and this young man, was making decisions that decide the future of peoples lives!! we have discovered that being honest with centrelink is a huge mistake, luckily we wont have to put up with their meddling for much longer Nignoy

[david96]

Thanks oziboy, an informative post.

I had a similar experience a few years back when I went to a medicare office. I wanted to inquire about putting my son onto my card so that he had health coverage while in Australia. The reaction from the rep I spoke to came as a shock. She told me I would need to provide all sorts on evidence that I and my son were resident in Oz. These included evidence of sale of any family owned property in Thailand, cancelation of any lease agreements, cancelation of all bank accounts in Thailand, and evidence of a property ownership or rental agreement in Oz. There were many more requirements but I can't recall them all.

When we travel to Oz now I take out family travel insurance.

What was the visa your son was travelling on? Medicare eligibility in Australia depends on the current visa the applicant holds.

[david96]

Just to add to all the confusion over aged pension payments.

I was in Aus in October and I went to Centrelink to try and find out what the rules are. I was told I would be eligible for the full pension but that I would not be eligible for payments until 2 years AFTER I turned 65. In other words for people who were living overseas before the age of 65 and who re entered the country to make the application, then returned to their overseas home, payments would not begin for 2 years.

Of course we have also had a change of goverment so who knows what changes to the existing legislation are in store.

If you are 65+ you are entitled to an Australian age pension if eligible. However if you have resided out of the country for a period of years and return you may have your travel periods restricted if you wish to travel overseas again for the first two years and still claim the full pension. This is why you must see Centrelink in person for any enquiries.

If asked by Centrelink if you own any property in Thailand you just state that all property is owned by the family of your wife. They are looking for income you might have from overseas investments. (You will of course have no income from Thailand.)

Residency periods were at Jan 2007 for a full pension 25 years, part pension 10 years, so if you had lived and worked in Australia for 25 years in the period before you were 65 you should be eligible for an age pension. They will certainly want to know about any investments you have overseas.

Edited January 16, 2008 by david96

[bgood]

Quote 'david96'

"What was the visa your son was travelling on? Medicare eligibility in Australia depends on the current visa the applicant holds."

David

My son is an Australian citizen, as I am. We don't require visas to enter Oz. My Thai wife does and has only ever been to Oz on tourist visas.

At the Medicare office there were no questions about visas, only questions about our resident status (and proof there of).

[david96]

Quote 'david96'

"What was the visa your son was travelling on? Medicare eligibility in Australia depends on the current visa the applicant holds."

David

My son is an Australian citizen, as I am. We don't require visas to enter Oz. My Thai wife does and has only ever been to Oz on tourist visas.

At the Medicare office there were no questions about visas, only questions about our resident status (and proof there of).

Then you would have no problem if you are both Australian citizens, Medicare would have only been checking his resident status in Australia before adding the name to your card.

[fishhooks]

Am I imagining it! or is there something strange about this computer I'm using at an Internet Cafe?

I'm getting a "tree" of reply posts on all topics and have to click on each reply individually to read same rather than scrolling through.

[samran]

Quote 'david96'

"What was the visa your son was travelling on? Medicare eligibility in Australia depends on the current visa the applicant holds."

David

My son is an Australian citizen, as I am. We don't require visas to enter Oz. My Thai wife does and has only ever been to Oz on tourist visas.

At the Medicare office there were no questions about visas, only questions about our resident status (and proof there of).

Then you would have no problem if you are both Australian citizens, Medicare would have only been checking his resident status in Australia before adding the name to your card.

after our daughter was born here in LOS, I went down to the medicare office on my first trip back to Melbourne and got my daughter put down on my card. When was asked have you moved back to Australia permanently I said at the moment my intention is to stay here permanently. In essense I wasn't lying, as I'd finished up one contract in BKK and was waiting for a next one to be signed. Until it had been signed, I had no intention of going back to LOS. Took down a bunch of bills and letter still addressed to me in OZ to strengthen my case.

Missed out on the baby bonus though, would have like to have scammed, um sorry, been eligble for that.

[Mason45]

I'm 63 yo now and I have a Thai wife, we live in our home in outer Bangkok, the property is in her name. I have no property or assets in my name in Thailand but I do own my own home in Melbourne. I go back to Melbourne every year for one month just to take care of any outstanding business etc. I lived full time in Australia from 1945 till 2003 and worked full time from 1960 till 2003, the most I've been out of Australia over that period is three months. Would I be eligible under the current rules to receive the OAP at 65 yo. On my last visit to Melbourne I went to my local CL to test the water and to my amazement I was abruptly told told to forget about it now and go back to see the CL when I'm 65 yo, so much for the advice from an Australian Government department, how are we supposed to plan our lives for the future. My total assets in Australia are a moderate home and furnishings, a 8 yo car and my superannuation whilst very handy is well under the OAG income threshold. I could apply for a spouse visa for my wife but it's not our choice to live in Australia at the present time, I enjoy living in Bangkok and the cost of living here gives us a very good lifestyle, the same lifestyle I simply couldn't afford in Australia, they say that Australia is the lucky country that is true but it doesnt apply to Australians who are 50yo plus who were born in Australia.

[Chris Lawrence]

Mason, I would put that down to "things may Change". Change of Govt may shift goal posts?

[bgood]

I'd be pleased if that happened, Chris, but I fear that with an aging population of baby boomers, it would be very difficult for any Govt to shift to any great extent.

[ignoramus]

It's now 2.30am here in Sydney on Thu. I may get tired of this before long, in which case I'll try to add what I can at a later time.

I worked for what's now called Centrelink from '81 to 9/97. Before 9/97 it was called the Dept of Social Security, and before that......

Firstly, if phoning them always get a 'receipt' number...the name is not so important.

+ note the date. Telephone calls are made to so-called Call Centres these days, not to individual regional offices, as before (where one could actually ask for and speak a second time to the same person as before, person who would quite likely remember you - always a pleasant experience).

Age Pension: a male is - in law, repeat in law - 'eligible' for the AP from day one of 65th birthday, and the signed paper 'claim' for this may be 'lodged' (submitted) prior to this day - days or weeks before, when is irrelevant.

A paper 'claim' (for any benefit/pension) cannot be refused, under any circumstances (it resides in a cardboard file until the cows come home). (For women the qualifying age is currently 63 + 1/2).

A person 'qualifies' for AP if and 'when' certain criteria are met - mainly income, assets, residency. The words 'eligible' and 'qualify' are sancrosact within C.......k.

Assets and income: the computer does the 2 calculations (tests), and C...k pays whichever is the lower figure produced. You live in a cave but own 2 mill bucks worth of paintings (assets test hits you) or you run a brothel, earn a mill a month but own nothing (income hits you). The computer understands. It'll pay $212pf as per the A test, but $212.50 as per the I test....you get paid under the A test - this is what your first letter will tell you. Dead simple - the 'puter is 100% impartial. Subsequent letters will ask you to report upon any 'changed circumstances'.

All assets, all income, is relevant.

Residency: you lived most of your life in Botswana but only 5 years in Oz - you are joking mate, go away (mind you, you can complain - often successfully - about impolite responses, even though you are basically an opportunistic fraud - we are very PC here).

All repeat all knockbacks can be 'appealed', meaning certain experts take you even more seriously than you take yourself!

People float here on leaky boats just for the welfare system. It's a wondrous thing.

Now it's 3.15am. G'night.

[roskruge]

VOICEOVER. I was living in Thailand for 3 or 4 years with the Australian Disability Pension their was a 13 or 26 week rule at the time but just before returning to Australia I had a phone call with Centrelink and they changed my status to International Permanent. A year ago my status was changed again from Disability to Age. I have been receiving the Australian age pension in Thailand for nearly a year now, with no problem, You must stay in contact with them, that is a must, ie keep them informed of your present address, if they write to you, and you do not respond within about 28 days they will cut you off. I am under no obligation to return to Australia after a period of time. I receive payment every 28 days via SWIFT directly in to my Kasikorn savings account. I communicate with Centrelink International in Hobart although my last residence in Australia was Perth. Yes a while ago I was considering marrying a Thai woman. Centrelink inform me she would be "Deemed to be earning a living' so my pension would be reduced. Centrelink International Hobart. Tel 009 61 3 6222 3455 (I use 009 cheaper) they will immediately return your call in case you have no credit on your phone. or call Australian Telstra 001 999 61 1000 and ask for reverse charge call. I hope this has been some help to you. regards

ps. I do get the full pension but if I was in Australia I would get concessions like housing allowance ect. also it is seasonally adjusted twice a year in May and November.

[Xangsamhua]

It seems that dealing with the Hobart office direct is the way to go for correct advice and a sympathetic hearing. Am I right?

[Mason45]

VOICEOVER. I was living in Thailand for 3 or 4 years with the Australian Disability Pension their was a 13 or 26 week rule at the time but just before returning to Australia I had a phone call with Centrelink and they changed my status to International Permanent. A year ago my status was changed again from Disability to Age. I have been receiving the Australian age pension in Thailand for nearly a year now, with no problem, You must stay in contact with them, that is a must, ie keep them informed of your present address, if they write to you, and you do not respond within about 28 days they will cut you off. I am under no obligation to return to Australia after a period of time. I receive payment every 28 days via SWIFT directly in to my Kasikorn savings account. I communicate with Centrelink International in Hobart although my last residence in Australia was Perth. Yes a while ago I was considering marrying a Thai woman. Centrelink inform me she would be "Deemed to be earning a living' so my pension would be reduced. Centrelink International Hobart. Tel 009 61 3 6222 3455 (I use 009 cheaper) they will immediately return your call in case you have no credit on your phone. or call Australian Telstra 001 999 61 1000 and ask for reverse charge call. I hope this has been some help to you. regards

ps. I do get the full pension but if I was in Australia I would get concessions like housing allowance ect. also it is seasonally adjusted twice a year in May and November.

My Thai wife will be 54 yo when I apply for the OAP, would she be deemed to be earning a living at that age, my wife hasn't done one days paid work since I met her five years ago.

[fishhooks]

Thanks Mason45: I was going to ask a similar question!

What yardstick or formulae decides that your Thai wife (or any wife for that matter) "if" under a woman's accepted age for retirement, is deemed to be working or capable of working.

Many married woman in Australia are and have always been a "Houswife" (Their 'work' in the 'house' certainly counts in Divorce settlements.)

What is to say that she should or must work, surely this is discrimination, which in Australia seems to be getting more of a hearing these days. (Look at the 'cricket' so called scandals of discrimination in very recent times!

Let's keep this topic going, I'm sure to date not enough noise has been made about some of these very unfair tactics forced upon us.

[samran]

OK - simply, how many years must you work in Australia to be eligible for the aged pension. Do jobs at part time jobs at highschool when you were 15 count on the clock? Or does it have nothing to do with how many years you've worked, but rather, how many years you've lived on OZ?

Would be interested to know.

[roskruge]

Yes you are right samran it is how many years residence not actual worked. as is the case of the UK. I first entered Australia in '68 so I was eligible for the full pension. They did give me the formula but sorry I forgot it.

[gburns57au]

Thanks Mason45: I was going to ask a similar question!

What yardstick or formulae decides that your Thai wife (or any wife for that matter) "if" under a woman's accepted age for retirement, is deemed to be working or capable of working.

Many married woman in Australia are and have always been a "Houswife" (Their 'work' in the 'house' certainly counts in Divorce settlements.)

What is to say that she should or must work, surely this is discrimination, which in Australia seems to be getting more of a hearing these days. (Look at the 'cricket' so called scandals of discrimination in very recent times!

Let's keep this topic going, I'm sure to date not enough noise has been made about some of these very unfair tactics forced upon us.

If you die...she will get the widows pension....until she can transfer to an aged pension or re-marries

If she dies......???

Edited January 17, 2008 by gburns57au

[fishhooks]

Thanks Graham, but I may have phrased the question not clearly.

What I am referring to is the fact that a males OAP, which let's say he qualifies on all counts, like residency, income & assets, seems on the advice of some members to be reduced somewhat if he marries a lady who is "deemed" to be able to work.

So assuming they are both alive and kicking, 'MR' is penalised, no matter how well he scores on all other fronts to be eligible.

So basically the question is; Can the Australian Government require 'MRS' to have an income to help support 'MR' whether on our own soil or overseas? Of course in most cases which we discuss here, having a younger wife.

[Artisi]

Here is my story on the 2 year period of restricted o/seas travel and impact on your pension.

Guess my story is similar in part to some of what has been reported her.

I returned to Australia after 6 years overseas a few months after I turned 65 and having been an Australian resident for nearly 60 of my 65 years I was entitled to a pension. I was accompanied back by my wife who now has a permanent visa for Aust. and being younger is classed as being a contributor to income, she has a very modest bank account o/seas and no property of other income(actually she is a full time PhD student). I have no overseas income or interests so was granted a partial pension as I own a local investment property as well as a home in which we live, an old car and a few hundred dollars worth of furniture etc. and a modest bank account - so nothing unusual and I considered the pension granted was within the guide lines etc etc. However, as I had been overseas for 6 years I was assessed as having to stay in Australia for the next 2 years otherwise I would lose my pension.

At the time I protested this decision but was advised in writing from the local CL office that this was the rule and that was that. I therefore started looking into the rules and the Act and found that I thought was their error. To cut the story short, I had two exchanges of letters plus phone calls with CL to still be told that – NO – cannot leave the country without it affecting your pension (not cancel but suspend payments – plus all the involved paper work). A short time later, I needed to go to the CL office to report some financial changes so I took the opportunity to raise the issue with the CL officer at the time- she had a good listen to what I had to say, looked at the earlier letters from myself and CL and asked if I wanted to request an official review by a senior officer to which I agreed.

My request for review was, I considered myself to be a resident of Australia on an extended o/seas holiday; I had property in Aust., paid local taxes, maintained medical insurance, returned to Aust. on a regular basis, didn’t have permanent residency in any other country, didn’t own any property and didn’t have any income from o/seas.

This was put straight into the system via the CL computer and was advised I would have an answer within 30 days – plus the CL officer also told me that she would be very interested in the outcome. About 3.5 weeks after this went into the system, I received a phone call for a CL officer saying she was the senior officer reviewing my request; she had a couple of questions for me. A few days later she called back to tell me my request for a review was successful and I was to be classified as a full time resident and the 2 year period didn’t apply.

So if you are in a similar situation – do not accept the local CL office decision, fight it – ask for an official review by a senior officer but have your fact right with the necessary documentation.

[oxymoron]

Thanks Graham, but I may have phrased the question not clearly.

What I am referring to is the fact that a males OAP, which let's say he qualifies on all counts, like residency, income & assets, seems on the advice of some members to be reduced somewhat if he marries a lady who is "deemed" to be able to work.

So assuming they are both alive and kicking, 'MR' is penalised, no matter how well he scores on all other fronts to be eligible.

So basically the question is; Can the Australian Government require 'MRS' to have an income to help support 'MR' whether on our own soil or overseas? Of course in most cases which we discuss here, having a younger wife.

Yes why not !!!! Women have been fighting for equality for years, and bitching about how male oriented the world is. Now from C...L point of view we have a non sexist policy. From the guys point of view if you want easy money you do not have to be married or cohabit with a partner.

[fishhooks]

"Yes why not !!!! Women have been fighting for equality for years, and bitching about how male oriented the world is".

SOME.............................And let's not tar everyone with the same brush.

Perhaps you could start a new topic, it's not really a response to this one, sounds like you have a bee in your bonnet.

[fishhooks]

Right on, Artisi. To the point, factual and a great result.

[Xangsamhua]

A few days later she called back to tell me my request for a review was successful and I was to be classified as a full time resident and the 2 year period didn't apply.

I've been away from Oz for six years but have continued paying tax as a "resident". Does that mean I'll be regarded as a resident when I go to Centrelink in a year or so to inquire about the Age Pension, hence avoiding the two-year issue?

[roskruge]

Xangsamhua. It used to be, I don’t know about now. Residence in regard to the aged pension was 10 years in the country (for the most part) prior to the 65 birthday. Paying taxes in the country while overseas is not residence. Residence is the body in the country.

[Xangsamhua]

Xangsamhua. It used to be, I don't know about now. Residence in regard to the aged pension was 10 years in the country (for the most part) prior to the 65 birthday. Paying taxes in the country while overseas is not residence. Residence is the body in the country.

Thank you. Looks like I'll just have to go with the flow. Que sera, sera.

But I think I might go direct to Hobart to sort it out.

[Artisi]

A few days later she called back to tell me my request for a review was successful and I was to be classified as a full time resident and the 2 year period didn't apply.

I've been away from Oz for six years but have continued paying tax as a "resident". Does that mean I'll be regarded as a resident when I go to Centrelink in a year or so to inquire about the Age Pension, hence avoiding the two-year issue?

The main criteria seemd to be that you need to convince them that you are still an Aussie. (provided you were an Aussie to start with) but was overseas on an extended holiday or temporary basis and always intended to return "home" and that you don't have any financial, residency status, property, commitment etc etc overseas, you also need to make a written statement that you intend to remain in Aust.

The act is designed to stop "immigrants" who came to Aust. got naturalised and worked for 10 years or so then heading home for 10 -15 years and then returned to Aust for 5 minutes just to collect the Aust. pension and head back home again - this is why they introduced the 2 year rule.

An Aust. by birth or a long term resident who moves overseas on temporary basis is penalised by this rule - so it is necessary that you fight the decision if you get caught up in the 2 year ruling and convince CL that you are home to stay - as I did - but now not being governed by the 2 year rule I can transport my pension o/seas if I wish to.

In effect the rule means that if you leave for a short o/seas trip - say to visit your wifes family etc - you pension is stopped and you need to re-apply when you return - the 2 year period re-starts again and you need to stay another 2 years before you pension is payable overseas - if you live in a country that has reciporical rights regarding pensions then the rule is different - I can't comment on this arrangement as it didn't apply in my case.

[roskruge]

Let us say you return to Aus just as you hit 65 years, you have been away for say 4 years, you are informed the 2 years rule applies, you only have fund to last for the next couple of weeks, you have no superannuation. So you apply for a benefit, what are they going to give you unemployment Benefit ? (technically you are not unemployed as you are 65) Probably a Special benefit till they can give you the Aged Pension. I don't think they will say go away come back in 2 years.

[bgood]

They’d probably have you arrested as a vagrant and throw you in jail!

Free rent, free food, free medical cover – not so bad!