Australian Aged Pension

[moojar]

^ If you're ~ 57 now the pushing of the OAP age out to 70 will cost you about another year if it goes ahead.  (You obviously know this but others may not.)   

 

Quote

What is your Age Pension age under the Liberal government proposals?

Commencement date	Age Pension age	Affects people born
	65	Born before July 1952
From 1 July 2017	65.5	From 1 July 1952 to 31 December 1953
From 1 July 2019	66	From 1 January 1954 to 30 June 1955
From 1 July 2021	66.5	From 1 July 1955 to 31 December 1956
From 1 July 2023	67	From 1 January 1957 to 30 June 1958
From 1 July 2025	67.5	From 1 July 1958 to 31 December 1959
From 1 July 2027	68	From 1 January 1960 to 30 June 1961
From 1 July 2029	68.5	From 1 July 1961 to 31 December 1962
From 1 July 2031	69	From 1 January 1963 to 30 June 1964
From 1 July 2033	69.5	From 1 July 1964 to 30 December 1965
From 1 July 2035	70	From 1 January 1966 onwards

 

(Got that from: https://www.superguide.com.au/accessing-superannuation/age-pension-age-set-to-increase-to-70 )

 

The part that takes the age to 67 is already law btw, brought in by Labor.  It's the Liberal proposal pushing the age from 67 to 70 that is still stuck in the senate. 

 

The Liberal proposal is going to cost me 1.5 years, if I even qualify for the lousy pension. 

 

 

I rang Centrelink 'older Australians' as promised btw, re residency.  At first they said "try international services".  When I said that mob told me to call you, she went away "to speak to her supervisor" and came back with information that I am almost certain is wrong.   She said under 'Section 7(5) of the Social Security act 1991' you need to have spent at least five years continuously in Oz in the last 10 years to qualify as resident.  I think that is wrong due to the 'at any time' phrase, but read it for yourself and form your own opinion:

 

Quote

 (5)  A person has 10 years qualifying Australian residence if and only if:

                     (a)  the person has, at any time, been an Australian resident for a continuous period of not less than 10 years; or

                     (b)  the person has been an Australian resident during more than one period and:

                              (i)  at least one of those periods is 5 years or more; and

                             (ii)  the aggregate of those periods exceeds 10 years.

 

https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2013C00081

 

This bit is interesting though:

 

Quote

(3)  In deciding for the purposes of this Act whether or not a person is residing in Australia, regard must be had to:

                     (a)  the nature of the accommodation used by the person in Australia; and

                     (b)  the nature and extent of the family relationships the person has in Australia; and

                     (c)  the nature and extent of the person’s employment, business or financial ties with Australia; and

                     (d)  the nature and extent of the person’s assets located in Australia; and

                     (e)  the frequency and duration of the person’s travel outside Australia; and

                      (f)  any other matter relevant to determining whether the person intends to remain permanently in Australia.

 

Point 'f' is going to catch a lot of us out I suspect. 

 

Try not to read too much of the legislation though, you may realise refugees / former refugees have more rights than we do.  

 

Edited June 6, 2017 by moojar
clarification

[rhodie]

It is so difficult to know what to do. I have over 4 years to go before I will be able to claim a part pension if I qualify.

 

I am about to travel around SEA for a year or 10. My base will be Thailand. But I will do some travel. Just not sure how many places and for how long. I am not going to rent out my unit, so it will stay my residence and all bills are in my name. I will stay on the voters role and may not be here to vote, but will return at least every 6 months for a visit. I have a company that earns a few thousand dollars a year and has a bit of capital. I will pay myself a small wage to show wage earnings on my tax return. 

 

I filled out the tool that @ELVIS123456 supplied and that says I am a resident for tax purposes. Not gospel I know.

 

Interesting that you can request a determination from the tax office to remain a resident for tax purposes. Has anyone done this?

 

Is there anything else that can be done to assist with qualifying as a resident?

 

I am hoping to be able to make a case to CL that I am just a traveler when I hit the age and should qualify on the basis that I am still a resident, but do a lot of travel. Hahaha :) Will only qualify for a small part pension if I structure things correctly and they don't change the rules, but really don't want to have to be tied down for 2 years here. I just want to be in the position that if after 15 years or whatever I find myself requiring the pension, I have it without having to then return for 2 years. May be 5 by then!

[halloween]

13 minutes ago, rhodie said:

It is so difficult to know what to do. I have over 4 years to go before I will be able to claim a part pension if I qualify.

 

I am about to travel around SEA for a year or 10. My base will be Thailand. But I will do some travel. Just not sure how many places and for how long. I am not going to rent out my unit, so it will stay my residence and all bills are in my name. I will stay on the voters role and may not be here to vote, but will return at least every 6 months for a visit. I have a company that earns a few thousand dollars a year and has a bit of capital. I will pay myself a small wage to show wage earnings on my tax return. 

 

I filled out the tool that @ELVIS123456 supplied and that says I am a resident for tax purposes. Not gospel I know.

 

Interesting that you can request a determination from the tax office to remain a resident for tax purposes. Has anyone done this?

 

Is there anything else that can be done to assist with qualifying as a resident?

 

I am hoping to be able to make a case to CL that I am just a traveler when I hit the age and should qualify on the basis that I am still a resident, but do a lot of travel. Hahaha :) Will only qualify for a small part pension if I structure things correctly and they don't change the rules, but really don't want to have to be tied down for 2 years here. I just want to be in the position that if after 15 years or whatever I find myself requiring the pension, I have it without having to then return for 2 years. May be 5 by then!

My accountant suggested that I apply for a ruling from the ATO that I remain a tax resident even though outside the country for more than 183 days p.a. - considered quite likely it would be granted. That would remain in effect until revoked. Would have to have all the usual residence requirements, (address, phone, bank a/c,etc) and a statement that I didn't intend to move o/s permanently. But I could change my mind about that.

This would allow me to return to Oz, earn $6500 p.a. without losing pension, taxed at 20c/$.

[moojar]

^^ @Rhodie. Yeah, if you work it out let the rest of us know.    There are so many grey areas with Centrelink. 

 

In my post #1258 where I rang C/L international services, they told me travel history carries the most weight.  

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/163135-australian-aged-pension/?do=findComment&comment=11935743

 

I felt after that phone call it was my living 45 or 50 weeks per year in Thailand that will bring me unstuck.  So if you are planning to travel - truly travel, not settle down someplace - and with all your other links to Oz I think you stand a good chance at getting the pension without the two years in the penal colony.  But that is just my opinion, I don't work at C/L and unfortunately I don't get to process the applications.  If I did we'd all be fine!  

 

Give International services a call, see what they can tell you - their number is on the C/L website list of contact numbers.  They are quite nice people, not your regular "guilty until proven innocent" bureaucrats.  They are in Tassie apparently, all that fresh air is obviously doing them good. 

 

Let us know what they say if you do call... 

 

Edited June 6, 2017 by moojar

[halloween]

6 minutes ago, moojar said:

^^ @Rhodie. Yeah, if you work it out let the rest of us know.    There are so many grey areas with Centrelink. 

 

In my post #1258 where I rang C/L international services, they told me travel history carries the most weight.  

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/163135-australian-aged-pension/?do=findComment&comment=11935743

 

I felt after that phone call it was my living 45 or 50 weeks per year in Thailand that will bring me unstuck.  So if you are planning to travel - truly travel, not settle down someplace - and with all your other links to Oz I think you stand a good chance at getting the pension without the two years in the penal colony.  But that is just my opinion, I don't work at C/L and unfortunately I don't get to process the applications.  If I did we'd all be fine!  

 

Give International services a call, see what they can tell you - their number is on the C/L website list of contact numbers.  They are quite nice people, not your regular "guilty until proven innocent" bureaucrats.  They are in Tassie apparently, all that fresh air is obviously doing them good. 

 

Let us know what they say if you do call... 

 

I spoke to them last time I was home to get an informal ruling. I will have spent 4 years @ 183+ days p.a. when my OAP comes due next May. All the boxes have been ticked and I have been working - no problems expected.

DO NOT say you have a permanent address here, or a significant other.

[4MyEgo]

On 2017-6-6 at 2:01 PM, moojar said:

^ If you're ~ 57 now the pushing of the OAP age out to 70 will cost you about another year if it goes ahead.  (You obviously know this but others may not.)   

 

 

(Got that from: https://www.superguide.com.au/accessing-superannuation/age-pension-age-set-to-increase-to-70 )

 

The part that takes the age to 67 is already law btw, brought in by Labor.  It's the Liberal proposal pushing the age from 67 to 70 that is still stuck in the senate. 

 

The Liberal proposal is going to cost me 1.5 years, if I even qualify for the lousy pension. 

 

 

I rang Centrelink 'older Australians' as promised btw, re residency.  At first they said "try international services".  When I said that mob told me to call you, she went away "to speak to her supervisor" and came back with information that I am almost certain is wrong.   She said under 'Section 7(5) of the Social Security act 1991' you need to have spent at least five years continuously in Oz in the last 10 years to qualify as resident.  I think that is wrong due to the 'at any time' phrase, but read it for yourself and form your own opinion:

 

 

https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2013C00081

 

This bit is interesting though:

 

 

Point 'f' is going to catch a lot of us out I suspect. 

 

Try not to read too much of the legislation though, you may realise refugees / former refugees have more rights than we do.  

 

Actually I didn't know that a year would be added to my OAP age, well if health and all is good, I will do everything possible to get the OAP, the assets part might be the hurdle, i.e. will have to transfer most of it to my daughter years ahead, now that leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but maybe I can buy her a property in her name with me having a caveat to the full value, as I know a lot of Greeks used to do stuff like that to protect their kids if their marriages failed.

 

Still a long way off, who knows by then if there still will be a pension. 

[4MyEgo]

On 2017-6-6 at 2:44 PM, rhodie said:

It is so difficult to know what to do. I have over 4 years to go before I will be able to claim a part pension if I qualify.

 

I am about to travel around SEA for a year or 10. My base will be Thailand. But I will do some travel. Just not sure how many places and for how long. I am not going to rent out my unit, so it will stay my residence and all bills are in my name. I will stay on the voters role and may not be here to vote, but will return at least every 6 months for a visit. I have a company that earns a few thousand dollars a year and has a bit of capital. I will pay myself a small wage to show wage earnings on my tax return. 

 

I filled out the tool that @ELVIS123456 supplied and that says I am a resident for tax purposes. Not gospel I know.

 

Interesting that you can request a determination from the tax office to remain a resident for tax purposes. Has anyone done this?

 

Is there anything else that can be done to assist with qualifying as a resident?

 

I am hoping to be able to make a case to CL that I am just a traveler when I hit the age and should qualify on the basis that I am still a resident, but do a lot of travel. Hahaha :) Will only qualify for a small part pension if I structure things correctly and they don't change the rules, but really don't want to have to be tied down for 2 years here. I just want to be in the position that if after 15 years or whatever I find myself requiring the pension, I have it without having to then return for 2 years. May be 5 by then!

Suggest the following:

 

1) Talk to your accountant, or an accountant who can tell you straight up, that or write to the ATO as I did and they told me how I would be assessed, best get it out of the way because there are other options for you to move forward, i.e. zero tax to pay as a foreign resident.

2) Apply for the 6 year rule with the ATO to rent your unit out for that period without having to pay tax (subject to approval) again an accountant can advise you how this is done.

3) Get a property valuer, not real estate agent to value your property as at the date you are departing and again when you return, in case you have to pay capital gains tax for that period when and if you sell your unit, ask the valuer for a high valuation for the 1st valuation and a low valuation for the second, if you do require a valuation and your unit is in Sydney, PM me as I will be able to assist further.

 

 

[Flying Kiwi]

I have just moved back to CM after several years back in OZ, YES you have to have 10 year period of living in OZ,but that's not the catch, you can bring your pension here as I have BUT you only get the full pension for the first 6 months ( less the other add on's power, rent sub etc etc,}  then after that you get a proportion of the FULL pension based on years worked in OZ since the age of 16 till retirement age, in my case it came to 27 years working in OZ that gives me a total or $ 255.00 per week for the rest of the time I am out of the country,you also lose your pension card and have to apply for a new one when you move back to OZ, but I am lucky because I was working in NZ for many years and there is a reciprocal agreement between OZ and NZ so I may get a top up from NZ.

 

You cannot get your pension sent direct to Thailand UNLESS you have advised Centrelink you are leaving the country for good in which case you MUST download a copy of the official form take it to your bank in Thailand get the bank to sign and STAMP the form confirming your bank account and then send it back to OZ. Pension are sent here monthly.

 

Anyone wanting copies of banking forms etc can contact me.

[rhodie]

Further to my post No 1262...

 

A mate that knows my story just happened to meet a friend whose GF works at CentreLink. He ran my story past her as though it was him and she said that, while there is no ruling and every application is done on a case by case basis, there is no reason why I would have to serve 2 years to qualify for a portable pension.

 

Her advice was to always keep a current address in Australia and come back once or twice a year, preferably every 6 months. She also said once on the pension, even though CL know when you come and go, it is seen favourably if you let them know that you are going traveling.

[Freed1948]

On 5/10/2017 at 7:45 AM, 4MyEgo said:

Yes, from my quick read over several articles, you were always required to have had to of worked in Oz for at least 10 years before you could get a part pension, i.e. 10 over 35 years of working life of the full aged pension, i.e. you would receive around a 3rd of the pension, now its moving to 15 years, so after 15 years of working continuously you will receive 15 over 35 years of a part pension.

 

So if you have worked 35 years your in, i.e. full pension, anything under that has to be above 15 years to be considered to get the part pension, but it has to be continuous.

 

Let's not forget if you are living abroad and under the pension entitlement age, you will have to return when you hit the magic age, i.e. 65, 67 depending when you were born, make your application, and once approved, remain in the land of slavery for 2 years before you can make it portable, i.e. take it with you, if you leave before hand, they will cut it and you will have to start the 2 years again, so I have heard.

 

 

You are allowed to leave for 6 weeks and return to OZ before it affects your 2 years of slavery.

[moojar]

6 hours ago, Freed1948 said:

You are allowed to leave for 6 weeks and return to OZ before it affects your 2 years of slavery.

That's not what others have said, not just 4MyEgo.  Have you actual recent experience of that Freed1948?   With a tag like that you must have been thru the process ... three or four years ago?  Always keen to hear recent first hand experiences. 

 

As I understand it - and I'm 14 years away from my pension age - the two years is to reestablish residency / your right to portability, and during the initial application process you need to have convinced Centrelink you are not going to go live overseas again.  Many have said you don't get to leave the country in that two year period at all.    

 

Here in Oz, pensioners living overseas are about as popular as hippies living on the dole at Nimbin.  Worse maybe - ours is government welfare being spent outside the country!  (The reaction I got when I outlined my plans to two friends, one of them a Liberal party member.)   This is not helped by dickheads gloating on various TV shows about how they're living the good life in Bali on the pension.  The recent federal budget brought in more "make it tougher on welfare recipients" measures, including mandatory drug testing / cutting off of benefits for some.  All while giving big business a hefty tax cut.  So you can see where this is heading.  

 

For anyone interested, this website shows where federal money comes from and where it is spent:  ABC News budget 2016 spending breakdown  - $450b total budget for the upcoming year.  $63b budgeted on 'care for the aged' (aged pension?) - that's close to 15% of the total spend.  More than double the defence budget, and six times what the "dole bludgers" are costing us.  Disability support pension is costing 8% of the total budget <deleted>, three times what the dole is costing (I read somewhere something like 1 in 20 adults are on the DSP.)  Total welfare spend is $158b, more than a third of the total budget.

 

And this paper talks about the ageing population:  https://taxreview.treasury.gov.au/content/ConsultationPaper.aspx?doc=html/publications/Papers/Retirement_Income_Consultation_Paper/Chapter_6.htm  Have a look at 'Chart 6.2: Number of working‑age individuals per individual aged 65 years or older' - that's what is driving these 'get tougher' and 'raise the pension age' approaches.  In the early 1970s there were over 7 taxpayers for each person over 65, and now there are less than 4.  It is projected to be less than 3 in about ten year's time, as the boomers continue to retire.           

[4MyEgo]

11 hours ago, Freed1948 said:

You are allowed to leave for 6 weeks and return to OZ before it affects your 2 years of slavery.

So once you are approved and have started receiving your pension, you can go on a trip for 6 weeks and come back before it affects your pension, I call that parole for a 6 week period annually, talk about control 555

[4MyEgo]

3 hours ago, moojar said:

That's not what others have said, not just 4MyEgo.  Have you actual recent experience of that Freed1948?   With a tag like that you must have been thru the process ... three or four years ago?  Always keen to hear recent first hand experiences. 

 

As I understand it - and I'm 14 years away from my pension age - the two years is to reestablish residency / your right to portability, and during the initial application process you need to have convinced Centrelink you are not going to go live overseas again.  Many have said you don't get to leave the country in that two year period at all.    

 

Here in Oz, pensioners living overseas are about as popular as hippies living on the dole at Nimbin.  Worse maybe - ours is government welfare being spent outside the country!  (The reaction I got when I outlined my plans to two friends, one of them a Liberal party member.)   This is not helped by dickheads gloating on various TV shows about how they're living the good life in Bali on the pension.  The recent federal budget brought in more "make it tougher on welfare recipients" measures, including mandatory drug testing / cutting off of benefits for some.  All while giving big business a hefty tax cut.  So you can see where this is heading.  

 

For anyone interested, this website shows where federal money comes from and where it is spent:  ABC News budget 2016 spending breakdown  - $450b total budget for the upcoming year.  $63b budgeted on 'care for the aged' (aged pension?) - that's close to 15% of the total spend.  More than double the defence budget, and six times what the "dole bludgers" are costing us.  Disability support pension is costing 8% of the total budget <deleted>, three times what the dole is costing (I read somewhere something like 1 in 20 adults are on the DSP.)  Total welfare spend is $158b, more than a third of the total budget.

 

And this paper talks about the ageing population:  https://taxreview.treasury.gov.au/content/ConsultationPaper.aspx?doc=html/publications/Papers/Retirement_Income_Consultation_Paper/Chapter_6.htm  Have a look at 'Chart 6.2: Number of working‑age individuals per individual aged 65 years or older' - that's what is driving these 'get tougher' and 'raise the pension age' approaches.  In the early 1970s there were over 7 taxpayers for each person over 65, and now there are less than 4.  It is projected to be less than 3 in about ten year's time, as the boomers continue to retire.           

Nicely written, a lot of facts, let me put you at ease, you have 14 years, and I have 10, that will be 13, maybe 20 by the time we get to the old age pension age as they keep shifting the goal posts, i.e. 67 Vs 70 or 67 Vs 87, the old Ozzie saying of 6 2 1 half dozen the other is ripe amongst these politicians who are ripping not only the expats, but the system off BIG time.

 

The way I see it, I worked 39 years paid a lot of taxes, that includes capital gains tax from properties that I purchased and sold over my life time and should be entitled to receive a pension without any penalty for living overseas, fortunately for me I have enough candy to outlive my life, suffice to say when I am getting close to the OAP, i.e. if I am still alive I will of shifted some of that candy so to Aline myself with the assets test to be considered for the OAP and go through the usual process, and as soon as that 2 years is up, its the middle finger salute.

 

The funny thing is you pay up to a million dollars, if not over in taxes in your life time for a $400 a week, around $20,000 a year return for your pension, for what 10 years if your lucky to live that long, sounds like we got ripped, if we get it, ripped even harder if we don't get it.

[halloween]

3 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Nicely written, a lot of facts, let me put you at ease, you have 14 years, and I have 10, that will be 13, maybe 20 by the time we get to the old age pension age as they keep shifting the goal posts, i.e. 67 Vs 70 or 67 Vs 87, the old Ozzie saying of 6 2 1 half dozen the other is ripe amongst these politicians who are ripping not only the expats, but the system off BIG time.

 

The way I see it, I worked 39 years paid a lot of taxes, that includes capital gains tax from properties that I purchased and sold over my life time and should be entitled to receive a pension without any penalty for living overseas, fortunately for me I have enough candy to outlive my life, suffice to say when I am getting close to the OAP, i.e. if I am still alive I will of shifted some of that candy so to Aline myself with the assets test to be considered for the OAP and go through the usual process, and as soon as that 2 years is up, its the middle finger salute.

 

The funny thing is you pay up to a million dollars, if not over in taxes in your life time for a $400 a week, around $20,000 a year return for your pension, for what 10 years if your lucky to live that long, sounds like we got ripped, if we get it, ripped even harder if we don't get it.

If you have living in Oz for 2 years before OAP eligibility, your pension is portable from day 1. The extra 2 years is only if you have been living o/s for some time and return to make a claim. And you don't have to stay in Oz all of that 2 years. My OAP is due next May, and for the last 3 I have been staying in Oz more than 183 days, making me a resident (with all the other requirements - address, bank a/c, voting, phone number, etc). Going back Oct to wait for pension, making 4 years residence.

Did a check with CL last time back. they couldn't see there being any dramas.

[Freed1948]

4 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

So once you are approved and have started receiving your pension, you can go on a trip for 6 weeks and come back before it affects your pension, I call that parole for a 6 week period annually, talk about control 555

In reply to this and Moojar 1271:

I returned to OZ in May 2014 after 20 years in Thailand and applied for the AOP then.

It was initially granted, but a few weeks later I received a phone call from Department of Human Services in regard to my intentions of returning to Thailand.

Naively I informed her that "Yes I intended to return to Thailand to take care of my son there". The naivety was that this was going to be after my 2 years in OZ. She informed me by letter that my AOP was denied due to me not being a permanent Australian Resident. I appealed against this decision to the Social Services Tribunal. I also requested that my AOP be paid until the outcome of the appeal on the understanding that all monies were to be repaid if my appeal was unsuccessful. This was agreed to by the Department in writing.

Fortunately I was able to convince the Tribunal member that the Department misunderstood my intentions and my AOP was restored.

In September 2014 I rang the Hobart office to enquire about the portability of the OAP if I travelled to Thailand to visit my son. I was advised that the AOP was portable for a period of 6 weeks. This was at odds to what I had read on the DOHS website so I requested confirmation of this in writing and duly received a letter from CL that my AOP was portable for a period of 6 weeks.

Lo and behold on leaving OZ my nominee in OZ got a letter from CL that my AOP was cancelled from the date I left OZ and would not be repaid until I returned to OZ.

I did make sure that I was no longer than 6 weeks out of OZ

With the help of my nominee and numerous phone calls to the DOHS Canberra office and armed with the confirmation letter from CL I was finally repaid the money that was stopped while I was in Thailand. This took 3 months to resolve. The next year I visited my son in Thailand and my AOP was Duly cancelled on the day I left OZ and reinstated on the day I returned. Again I returned within the 6 weeks.

On the first of May 2016 I contacted Hobart and was advised that my AOP was now portable as I had spent the 2 years required to be a Australian Resident.

While I have no idea if you have to restart your 2 years as a Permanent Resident if you away longer than 6 weeks I hope this answers your query.

 

You are allowed to leave for 6 weeks and return to OZ before it affects your 2 years of slavery.

[bazza73]

28 minutes ago, Freed1948 said:

In reply to this and Moojar 1271:

I returned to OZ in May 2014 after 20 years in Thailand and applied for the AOP then.

It was initially granted, but a few weeks later I received a phone call from Department of Human Services in regard to my intentions of returning to Thailand.

Naively I informed her that "Yes I intended to return to Thailand to take care of my son there". The naivety was that this was going to be after my 2 years in OZ. She informed me by letter that my AOP was denied due to me not being a permanent Australian Resident. I appealed against this decision to the Social Services Tribunal. I also requested that my AOP be paid until the outcome of the appeal on the understanding that all monies were to be repaid if my appeal was unsuccessful. This was agreed to by the Department in writing.

Fortunately I was able to convince the Tribunal member that the Department misunderstood my intentions and my AOP was restored.

In September 2014 I rang the Hobart office to enquire about the portability of the OAP if I travelled to Thailand to visit my son. I was advised that the AOP was portable for a period of 6 weeks. This was at odds to what I had read on the DOHS website so I requested confirmation of this in writing and duly received a letter from CL that my AOP was portable for a period of 6 weeks.

Lo and behold on leaving OZ my nominee in OZ got a letter from CL that my AOP was cancelled from the date I left OZ and would not be repaid until I returned to OZ.

I did make sure that I was no longer than 6 weeks out of OZ

With the help of my nominee and numerous phone calls to the DOHS Canberra office and armed with the confirmation letter from CL I was finally repaid the money that was stopped while I was in Thailand. This took 3 months to resolve. The next year I visited my son in Thailand and my AOP was Duly cancelled on the day I left OZ and reinstated on the day I returned. Again I returned within the 6 weeks.

On the first of May 2016 I contacted Hobart and was advised that my AOP was now portable as I had spent the 2 years required to be a Australian Resident.

While I have no idea if you have to restart your 2 years as a Permanent Resident if you away longer than 6 weeks I hope this answers your query.

 

You are allowed to leave for 6 weeks and return to OZ before it affects your 2 years of slavery.

It sounds like your case is dependent on how many years you have resided and worked in Australia. 35 years is needed for full pension rights. Plus you MUST be resident in Australia at the birthday when you qualify for the Age Pension. Otherwise it's another 2 years. Who said Australia has moved on from being a penal colony?

I maintain Australian residency. I spend about 10 - 11 months in Thailand, coming back to Australia every six months. I only lose the supplements after six weeks away, still get the base pension which is restored as soon as I land in Australia.

A few months ago, some  ****wit senator was complaining offshore pensioners were not spending their money in Australia. Duh. Perhaps if you guys weren't so dedicated to lining your own pockets, we could afford to live there. Here's a tip - if you want to keep your pensions, don't vote Liberal.

 

 

[moojar]

1 hour ago, Freed1948 said:

In reply to this and Moojar 1271:

I returned to OZ in May 2014 after 20 years in Thailand and applied for the AOP then.

It was initially granted, but a few weeks later I received a phone call from Department of Human Services in regard to my intentions of returning to Thailand.

Naively I informed her that "Yes I intended to return to Thailand to take care of my son there". The naivety was that this was going to be after my 2 years in OZ. She informed me by letter that my AOP was denied due to me not being a permanent Australian Resident. I appealed against this decision to the Social Services Tribunal. I also requested that my AOP be paid until the outcome of the appeal on the understanding that all monies were to be repaid if my appeal was unsuccessful. This was agreed to by the Department in writing.

Fortunately I was able to convince the Tribunal member that the Department misunderstood my intentions and my AOP was restored.

In September 2014 I rang the Hobart office to enquire about the portability of the OAP if I travelled to Thailand to visit my son. I was advised that the AOP was portable for a period of 6 weeks. This was at odds to what I had read on the DOHS website so I requested confirmation of this in writing and duly received a letter from CL that my AOP was portable for a period of 6 weeks.

Lo and behold on leaving OZ my nominee in OZ got a letter from CL that my AOP was cancelled from the date I left OZ and would not be repaid until I returned to OZ.

I did make sure that I was no longer than 6 weeks out of OZ

With the help of my nominee and numerous phone calls to the DOHS Canberra office and armed with the confirmation letter from CL I was finally repaid the money that was stopped while I was in Thailand. This took 3 months to resolve. The next year I visited my son in Thailand and my AOP was Duly cancelled on the day I left OZ and reinstated on the day I returned. Again I returned within the 6 weeks.

On the first of May 2016 I contacted Hobart and was advised that my AOP was now portable as I had spent the 2 years required to be a Australian Resident.

While I have no idea if you have to restart your 2 years as a Permanent Resident if you away longer than 6 weeks I hope this answers your query.

 

You are allowed to leave for 6 weeks and return to OZ before it affects your 2 years of slavery.

Thank you Freed1948, that is good information.  Much appreciated.

 

Sounds like it's been a tough road for you, with the time away from your son "the icing on the cake" ("the shit in the sandwich" more like it.)  Sorry to hear that.  CL can be heartless bastards can't they?  But you confirm the good things I have heard about International services / the Hobart office.  Those are decent people. 

 

Must work on my poker face before I apply - "nope, no intention of ever returning to live in Thailand".   I was just wondering today what happens to people CL decide are non resident - I don't suppose you can get the dole or anything, are you expected to just go live under a bridge for the next two years or something?  

 

Enjoy every cent you get out of them - and make sure to give Canberra the middle finger every time you "cash a cheque".  

Edited June 22, 2017 by moojar

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, Freed1948 said:

In reply to this and Moojar 1271:

I returned to OZ in May 2014 after 20 years in Thailand and applied for the AOP then.

It was initially granted, but a few weeks later I received a phone call from Department of Human Services in regard to my intentions of returning to Thailand.

Naively I informed her that "Yes I intended to return to Thailand to take care of my son there". The naivety was that this was going to be after my 2 years in OZ. She informed me by letter that my AOP was denied due to me not being a permanent Australian Resident. I appealed against this decision to the Social Services Tribunal. I also requested that my AOP be paid until the outcome of the appeal on the understanding that all monies were to be repaid if my appeal was unsuccessful. This was agreed to by the Department in writing.

Fortunately I was able to convince the Tribunal member that the Department misunderstood my intentions and my AOP was restored.

In September 2014 I rang the Hobart office to enquire about the portability of the OAP if I travelled to Thailand to visit my son. I was advised that the AOP was portable for a period of 6 weeks. This was at odds to what I had read on the DOHS website so I requested confirmation of this in writing and duly received a letter from CL that my AOP was portable for a period of 6 weeks.

Lo and behold on leaving OZ my nominee in OZ got a letter from CL that my AOP was cancelled from the date I left OZ and would not be repaid until I returned to OZ.

I did make sure that I was no longer than 6 weeks out of OZ

With the help of my nominee and numerous phone calls to the DOHS Canberra office and armed with the confirmation letter from CL I was finally repaid the money that was stopped while I was in Thailand. This took 3 months to resolve. The next year I visited my son in Thailand and my AOP was Duly cancelled on the day I left OZ and reinstated on the day I returned. Again I returned within the 6 weeks.

On the first of May 2016 I contacted Hobart and was advised that my AOP was now portable as I had spent the 2 years required to be a Australian Resident.

While I have no idea if you have to restart your 2 years as a Permanent Resident if you away longer than 6 weeks I hope this answers your query.

 

You are allowed to leave for 6 weeks and return to OZ before it affects your 2 years of slavery.

Wow......what a nightmare

 

Thanks for sharing, I intend to move the family back to Australia, 2 kids in school, 2 to be working, so I think that will be pretty straight forwards, after that 2 year period, the middle finger salute I feel would be appropriate 555

[Flying Kiwi]

3 hours ago, Freed1948 said:

In reply to this and Moojar 1271:

I returned to OZ in May 2014 after 20 years in Thailand and applied for the AOP then.

It was initially granted, but a few weeks later I received a phone call from Department of Human Services in regard to my intentions of returning to Thailand.

Naively I informed her that "Yes I intended to return to Thailand to take care of my son there". The naivety was that this was going to be after my 2 years in OZ. She informed me by letter that my AOP was denied due to me not being a permanent Australian Resident. I appealed against this decision to the Social Services Tribunal. I also requested that my AOP be paid until the outcome of the appeal on the understanding that all monies were to be repaid if my appeal was unsuccessful. This was agreed to by the Department in writing.

Fortunately I was able to convince the Tribunal member that the Department misunderstood my intentions and my AOP was restored.

In September 2014 I rang the Hobart office to enquire about the portability of the OAP if I travelled to Thailand to visit my son. I was advised that the AOP was portable for a period of 6 weeks. This was at odds to what I had read on the DOHS website so I requested confirmation of this in writing and duly received a letter from CL that my AOP was portable for a period of 6 weeks.

Lo and behold on leaving OZ my nominee in OZ got a letter from CL that my AOP was cancelled from the date I left OZ and would not be repaid until I returned to OZ.

I did make sure that I was no longer than 6 weeks out of OZ

With the help of my nominee and numerous phone calls to the DOHS Canberra office and armed with the confirmation letter from CL I was finally repaid the money that was stopped while I was in Thailand. This took 3 months to resolve. The next year I visited my son in Thailand and my AOP was Duly cancelled on the day I left OZ and reinstated on the day I returned. Again I returned within the 6 weeks.

On the first of May 2016 I contacted Hobart and was advised that my AOP was now portable as I had spent the 2 years required to be a Australian Resident.

While I have no idea if you have to restart your 2 years as a Permanent Resident if you away longer than 6 weeks I hope this answers your query.

 

You are allowed to leave for 6 weeks and return to OZ before it affects your 2 years of slavery.

Sorry to hear about your issues BUT yes that clause is a pain and they are very tough on that clause.

[BaiLao]

On 6/22/2017 at 1:48 PM, moojar said:

I don't suppose you can get the dole or anything, are you expected to just go live under a bridge for the next two years or something?

That's a valid point. The imaginary conversation at CL might go something like this:

 

"OK - so you're not going to give me the pension. That means I'll have to seek employment - tricky at my age, with little chance of success - but I'd like to sign up for the Newstart Allowance, immediately please." I wonder what the response would likely be, particularly if the dole - oh sorry - Newstart Allowance, was likely to be more than the part pension...

Edited June 26, 2017 by BaiLao
typo

[Sparx60]

On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2008 at 0:42 AM, Thai Chi said:

This may help, but may change before you hit the big 65

"To lodge a claim and qualify for Age Pension, you must be:

in Australia on the day you lodge your claim - the exceptions to this rule are that the person is:

in an agreement country when the claim is lodged and is either a resident of Australia or a resident of an agreement country, or

transferring from a different payment type and does not need to lodge a claim (e.g. a person in receipt of a Disability Support Pension, turning Age Pension age does not need to lodge a claim).

In most cases, you can be paid Age Pension outside Australia indefinitely, although the rate of payment may vary after a period.

Generally able to be paid indefinitely, proportional after 26 weeks." Source.....the friendly govt centrelink office

The reduction after 26 weeks depends on a few different factors and can differ from person to person. I do know one gentleman that receives about $100 less per f'nite due to his being in Thailand full time.

To receive full pension and retire overseas, you have to live in Australia for 35 years minimum. Anything  less  and your pension gets  gradually decreased after certain period of time. I have been told this by Centrelink after they found I lived in Australia only 20 years in spite of the fact that I have been naturalised 50 years ago.

[Flying Kiwi]

3 hours ago, Sparx60 said:

To receive full pension and retire overseas, you have to live in Australia for 35 years minimum. Anything  less  and your pension gets  gradually decreased after certain period of time. I have been told this by Centrelink after they found I lived in Australia only 20 years in spite of the fact that I have been naturalised 50 years ago.

I just moved back to CM after being back in OZ for  couple of years, I can tell exactly how it works.

  You will get the full pension less electric subsidy etc for the first 26 weeks AFTER  that your pension IS CALCULATED on the amount of years you have worked in Australia from the age of 16 until you claim the pension. In my case i had clocked up 27 working years from the age of 16 hence my pension will be reduced by around around $150.00 per fortnight as of the 27 th week of being out of Australia. 

I actually just got confirmation of these figures in the last 10 days so this information is spot on.

If you leave Australia and to live overseas for medical reasons or you leave because you need assistance with daily living and you have to go overseas to FAMILY to receive  this is also grounds for an exemption and IF GRANTED you would then get the FULL pension while out of the country.

It does DOES not matter if you were  born in OZ just got citizenship whatever, EXCEPT if you have been out of the country working for the government been in the ADF etc these are only exceptions.

Have a lot more hard copy info if anyone wants it.

 

 

[giddyup]

On 26/06/2017 at 6:10 PM, BaiLao said:

That's a valid point. The imaginary conversation at CL might go something like this:

 

"OK - so you're not going to give me the pension. That means I'll have to seek employment - tricky at my age, with little chance of success - but I'd like to sign up for the Newstart Allowance, immediately please." I wonder what the response would likely be, particularly if the dole - oh sorry - Newstart Allowance, was likely to be more than the part pension...

You are entitled to receive the pension in Australia, if you are of eligible age, but it will stop immediately you leave until you complete the 2 years in Australia.

[ELVIS123456]

2 hours ago, giddyup said:

You are entitled to receive the pension in Australia, if you are of eligible age, but it will stop immediately you leave until you complete the 2 years in Australia.

I can confirm that is correct. If you have been living outside Australia and are a resident/citizen and return the date you are entitled to the pension, you will receive it from that date forward, as long as you are there and will stay 'living' in Australia.

 

But in order to get 'portability' after coming back having lived overseas, and thus still get the pension when you leave Australia to go live somewhere else, you must have lived in Australia previously for min 10 years, and after returning you must stay living in Australia for 2 years minimum. But here is the 'kicker' - to get portability, you must convince CLink that you are INTENDING to stay living in Australia when you get the pension AND when you qualify  for portability two years later. If you admit it, or let them think, at any time, that you are intending to go live overseas predominately, then they can deny portability indefinitely. And here is key - once you are approved for portability, you can then change your mind and leave Australia and take the pension with you. But it is recommended that you dont do it straight away - because they can decide that you always intended to leave and can stop payments - and you will have to appeal etc etc etc.  

 

The reason for all this starting, is that many years ago some clever sods came to Australia for 10+ years and then returned home, then once they qualified for the pension they applied and got it and then immediately went back home again (with the full pension). 

 

My plan is to have lived in Australia for several years (3-5) before the pension qualification date, and to therefore be eligible to have immediate portability once I get it. The rule is that you must have been living in Australia for a minimum 2 years before qualification to get immediate portability. But CLink is getting a bit nasty about all the Aussie blokes who get the pension and then piss off straight away, so I will be waiting just a little while before I take the money and run (3 months or so).  Living in Australia means having Aust as your predominate place of living for a minimum 26 weeks each year - so I will be 'holidaying' in Thailand a lot in the lead up - but less in the last 2 years. 

[sceadugenga]

That will work, you have to get your residency back on track to get portability of the Age Pension without having to sit out the 2 years.

 

Word is, and there's nothing in writing here, you can spend up to 6 months a year overseas prior to qualifying as long as you have a house etc in Australia.

I know people who Centrelink have told this over the phone.

[Flying Kiwi]

3 hours ago, sceadugenga said:

That will work, you have to get your residency back on track to get portability of the Age Pension without having to sit out the 2 years.

 

Word is, and there's nothing in writing here, you can spend up to 6 months a year overseas prior to qualifying as long as you have a house etc in Australia.

I know people who Centrelink have told this over the phone.

 

3 hours ago, sceadugenga said:

That will work, you have to get your residency back on track to get portability of the Age Pension without having to sit out the 2 years.

 

Word is, and there's nothing in writing here, you can spend up to 6 months a year overseas prior to qualifying as long as you have a house etc in Australia.

I know people who Centrelink have told this over the phone.

Sorry to disagree but think you better check your information source regards owning a house and the 6 months overseas etc, I have recently been through the whole process of time in OZ etc 

[sceadugenga]

Did they say what constituted residency after a lengthy period away?

No need to be sorry, a lot of this stuff can be difficult to work out, even for Centrelink officers.

 

 

[sceadugenga]

On 01/07/2017 at 6:07 PM, Flying Kiwi said:

I just moved back to CM after being back in OZ for  couple of years, I can tell exactly how it works.

  You will get the full pension less electric subsidy etc for the first 26 weeks AFTER  that your pension IS CALCULATED on the amount of years you have worked in Australia from the age of 16 until you claim the pension. In my case i had clocked up 27 working years from the age of 16 hence my pension will be reduced by around around $150.00 per fortnight as of the 27 th week of being out of Australia. 

I actually just got confirmation of these figures in the last 10 days so this information is spot on.

If you leave Australia and to live overseas for medical reasons or you leave because you need assistance with daily living and you have to go overseas to FAMILY to receive  this is also grounds for an exemption and IF GRANTED you would then get the FULL pension while out of the country.

It does DOES not matter if you were  born in OZ just got citizenship whatever, EXCEPT if you have been out of the country working for the government been in the ADF etc these are only exceptions.

Have a lot more hard copy info if anyone wants it.

 

 

Just found this post a page back, I would be most interested to see any paper work you have on the subject.

It would be treated with the strictest confidence.

 

Your pension would be based on Australian Working Life Residency, in your case, 27/35 of the full base pension.

 

Not sure where you get the 27 weeks from....

[Flying Kiwi]

11 hours ago, sceadugenga said:

Just found this post a page back, I would be most interested to see any paper work you have on the subject.

It would be treated with the strictest confidence.

 

Your pension would be based on Australian Working Life Residency, in your case, 27/35 of the full base pension.

 

Not sure where you get the 27 weeks from....

After you have been out of the country your OZ pension reduces, this reduction is based on the number of years worked in OZ from the age of 16. Therefor at the start of the 27 weeks your pension amount is reviewed if you have clocked up the 35 years working there is NO issue but as in my case and the vast majority of people the have not got the 35 years hence the reduction

[sceadugenga]

Description of the measure

Once the pensioner has been overseas for a period of 6 weeks, their payment rate will change depending on the number of years they lived in Australia during their working life.

Currently, customers can remain absent from Australia for 26 weeks before their pension rate is adjusted. This will decrease to 6 weeks for those who leave Australia on or after 1 January 2017.

 

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/corporate/budget/budget-2015-16/budget-measures/disability-and-carers/australian-working-life-residence-tightening-proportionality-requirements