Australian Aged Pension

[halloween]

2 minutes ago, David Walden said:

That exact figure is not important and you are likely correct,but presently you only need to be resident in Aus 25 years and 6 or 9 months...not 35 years that will be required in 2035.

 

It's bloody well important to me, and anybody else close to eligibility. The thought of having to spend another 3 months there, well into winter, was not pleasant at all and had me rapidly.searching websites. AFAIK there never has been a 65y9m eligibility age, it increases 6 months every 2 years.

[giddyup]

2 minutes ago, David Walden said:

I'm not sure what you mean by portability.

port·a·bil·i·ty

ˌpôrdəˈbilədē/

noun

noun: portability

the ability to be easily carried or moved.

"the portability of a laptop"

Computing

the ability of software to be transferred from one machine or system to another.

"portability to multiple operating systems"

the possibility of a loan or pension being transferred or adapted in altered circumstances.

[sceadugenga]

1 minute ago, David Walden said:

I'm not sure what you mean by portability.

The Age pension is portable if you can be paid it, or some part of it, overseas.

What the issue has been for several pages of posts is that it is NOT portable for two years unless residency requirements are met.

I added AWLR to the pot as some people reading this may have worked overseas for quite a few years, if this reduces their AWLR... currently 35 year, then they will only receive a portion of the pension when it becomes portable. 

They will still be paid the full pension while in Australia,

[superglue]

27 minutes ago, David Walden said:

There are cases that have found in favour with Centrelink in situation with the AAT who can prove that they cannot live in Aus other then in a Govt high care facility, if none is available you can't come back to Aus.   If you can write letters that is better then phoning, slower but they have give you a written answer.   It will be an uphill journey.  Like I say asking for Consular assistance (Aust Embassy) they also have to have to assist you if you are asking for assistance.

 

What type of Consular assistance must the Embassy provide (if asked)?

[tryasimight]

On 9/17/2017 at 9:35 AM, halloween said:

I'm using the KISS principle and not opening an account here, at least not before OAP is granted. CL will deposit into an o/s account, but you have to declare yourself a non-resident. My OAP will be deposited into a credit union which doesn't charge for offshore withdrawals, and Bangkok Bank will let me pull out B50,000 from my VISA debit card (over the counter with passport) without fees. Current exchange rate was B25.4 which is acceptable.

Doing that and maintaining address, phone number, etc lets me claim I am an Oz resident doing a lot of travelling. A few weeks work each year will let me top up my pension, get medical services, might even get Oz resident tax rate if I can get a favourable ATO ruling.

Hoping my trip back will also reset the 6 months of allowances that you lose. anybody have any experience with that?

Which credit union are you using? Generally credit unions cannot do overseas transfers (that is what mine told me) only banks.

 

Edit: misread your post. Credit unions can do withdrawals. I'd still be interested to know which one does it without fees  - mine charges like the proverbial.

[sceadugenga]

https://www.peopleschoicecu.com.au/products-services/foreign-currency/telegraphic-transfers/

$5,000 transfer limit per day

 

[ripstanley]

2 hours ago, sceadugenga said:

Medicare residency qualification is apparently only lost after 5 continuous years away.

I went back this year after 4 years in Thailand for this reason.

 

You can return after any longer period and reapply provided you can show you intend to stay permanently.

Be aware that this is what the Medicare  office work on.  

 

Ministerial Order No 781 allows Australian citizens who have been absent from Australia to continue Medicare eligibility for up to 5 years from their original departure from Australia.  The 5 years does not recommence on return visits where they do not reside in Australia. 

[sceadugenga]

OK, interesting.

Thanks for that Rip.

 

[David Walden]

1 hour ago, sceadugenga said:

The Age pension is portable if you can be paid it, or some part of it, overseas.

What the issue has been for several pages of posts is that it is NOT portable for two years unless residency requirements are met.

I added AWLR to the pot as some people reading this may have worked overseas for quite a few years, if this reduces their AWLR... currently 35 year, then they will only receive a portion of the pension when it becomes portable. 

They will still be paid the full pension while in Australia,

If you are 50 y/o now and will have have worked in Aus 35 years by the time you are 70  y/o you will get the full pension in 2035, plus the pension supplement  If you live in Aus you are likely to get rent assistance also.  If you are 65 years and 6 months now and have worked in Aus for 25 years and 6 months  you will get the full pension if you apply now.  The supplement will also be paid in full if you remain in Aus.  If you live overseas after 6 weeks you will lose much of the supplement.  You will not lose any of the pension no matter where you live once you have been granted the pension provided you are within the threshold.  Tha'st all I've said, I think I'll stop now.

[sceadugenga]

After 26 weeks, your receipt of the Age Pension becomes dependent on how many years you’ve been an Australian resident. This is called your Australian Working Life Residency (AWLR). Your AWLR starts after 10 years of residential status in Australia and is only calculated between 16-65 years of age (although there are plans to increase this to 67 in 2023). Fortunately, it is not dependent on you receiving paid employment.
For detailed information on conditions please refer to the Age Pension when travelling outside of Australia section of the Department of Human Services website. 

 

https://www.ofx.com/en-au/blog/transfer-age-pension-overseas/

[keithpa]

3 hours ago, sceadugenga said:

Living in Australia

Living in Australia means Australia is your usual place of residence.

Australia includes:

• the Territory of Cocos (Keeling) Islands
• the Territory of Christmas Island
• Norfolk Island, and
• Lord Howe Island

How we decide

When we are deciding whether you live in Australia, we’ll look at:

• where you live and who you live with
• if you have family in Australia or overseas
• your employment, business or financial ties in Australia and overseas
• your assets in Australia and overseas
• how often and how long you travel outside Australia, and
• anything else we think is relevant

 

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/enablers/residence-descriptions

 

Note the last requirement, a convenient "catch all".

Nothing to do with eligibility for the OAP. Im an OAP, have been for 15 years and I can live where ever I chose.

[Will27]

1 hour ago, superglue said:

 

What type of Consular assistance must the Embassy provide (if asked)?

 

 

http://thailand.embassy.gov.au/bkok/consular.html

[David Walden]

37 minutes ago, sceadugenga said:

After 26 weeks, your receipt of the Age Pension becomes dependent on how many years you’ve been an Australian resident. This is called your Australian Working Life Residency (AWLR). Your AWLR starts after 10 years of residential status in Australia and is only calculated between 16-65 years of age (although there are plans to increase this to 67 in 2023). Fortunately, it is not dependent on you receiving paid employment.
For detailed information on conditions please refer to the Age Pension when travelling outside of Australia section of the Department of Human Services website. 

 

https://www.ofx.com/en-au/blog/transfer-age-pension-overseas/

I think we are going around in circles.  It's a bit like being a lunch room full of second hand car salesman.  Everyone is talking, no one is listening.

[Will27]

15 minutes ago, keithpa said:

Nothing to do with eligibility for the OAP. Im an OAP, have been for 15 years and I can live where ever I chose.

 

That is for when you apply for the OAP.

 

Once you've qualified, you can live anywhere you want to, provided you've done your 2 years.

[keithpa]

16 minutes ago, Will27 said:

 

That is for when you apply for the OAP.

 

Once you've qualified, you can live anywhere you want to, provided you've done your 2 years.

For goodness sake, get your facts straights. Get the 2 years out of your brain. Im talking to brick  walls, Im, over and out.

[moojar]

8 hours ago, keithpa said:

For goodness sake, get your facts straights. Get the 2 years out of your brain. Im talking to brick  walls, Im, over and out.

Good that you're gone me thinks - you are the one not understanding 'portability', and you're confusing people IMO.  

 

If you are a resident the day you apply for the pension, no worries, piss off overseas and you're fine.  You have 'portability' - taking your pension overseas is what is meant by 'portability'.  This sounds like the situation you faced keithpa, so you were fine.  Or perhaps you applied before this 'portability / residency' thing was a factor.  Good for you.

 

'Resident' is different from 'citizen' remember.  By 'resident' we mean 'an Australian citizen residing in Australia'.   

 

If you are not resident when you apply, you must spend two years in Oz before you can take your pension overseas.   And in that two years, never, ever mention to C/L that you intend living overseas.   You must convince them of the opposite. 

[moojar]

12 hours ago, halloween said:

'Thai wife' - wash your mouth out with soap and sew your lips together! NEVER utter those words to C/Link.

Ha ha, I get your point.  She's also an Australian citizen though, and we're the same age - she will also get a pension.  The point the C/L officer was making was regarding 'ties to Australia' - she having Thai family counts against her, and against me by extension.  Apparently a bigger consideration than my family in Oz, and our own kids / grandkids in Oz. 

 

Or in other words, a single Australian living in Thailand might just be on an extended holiday.  An Australian citizen living in Thailand, who is also a Thai citizen, is a different story. 

 

SWMBO will have at least 25 of the 35 'AWLR' years when we apply - worked and paid her taxes for all of that.  They will no doubt screw us over on the AWLR - reduce our combined couples pension to 25/35 or something I expect. 

 

[David Walden]

8 minutes ago, moojar said:

Good that you're gone me thinks - you are the one not understanding 'portability', and you're confusing people IMO.  

 

If you are a resident the day you apply for the pension, no worries, piss off overseas and you're fine.  You have 'portability' - taking your pension overseas is what is meant by 'portability'.  This sounds like the situation you faced keithpa, so you were fine.  Or perhaps you applied before this 'portability / residency' thing was a factor.  Good for you.

 

'Resident' is different from 'citizen' remember.  By 'resident' we mean 'an Australian citizen residing in Australia'.   

 

If you are not resident when you apply, you must spend two years in Oz before you can take your pension overseas.   And in that two years, never, ever mention to C/L that you intend living overseas.   You must convince them of the opposite. 

The bit about the 2 year bit to qualify, yes seems correct?...but if you go on holidays during this 2 year qualifying period  to Thailand or where ever  for extended holidays on a tourist visa or a retirement visa.  You most likely will qualify.  I have a friend who was absent overseas for 4 years OK he had a house in Perth he  rented out, lived off this rent,  paid some tax, arrived back recently at 65 years and 6 month. and was granted a Aus Aged Pension sold the house and is now living in South America permanently.   He is an account by profession he planned this move and it worked...all done.

[moojar]

^ I'm not sure on that David.  Some say the two years is two years uninterrupted, and if you leave the country for a single day the clock resets.  Others say short holidays are allowed in the two years.  

 

I'd be very surprised if 'extended' holidays are allowed though.  That's just gaming the system.

[halloween]

12 hours ago, tryasimight said:

Which credit union are you using? Generally credit unions cannot do overseas transfers (that is what mine told me) only banks.

 

Edit: misread your post. Credit unions can do withdrawals. I'd still be interested to know which one does it without fees  - mine charges like the proverbial.

MMPCU now trading as Unity Bank. I am looking at a phone app crew called Currencies Direct who are quoting exchange rate ~B0.8 better than UB with no fees. Haven't tried it yet, but it looks good.

[sceadugenga]

8 minutes ago, moojar said:

^ I'm not sure on that David.  Some say the two years is two years uninterrupted, and if you leave the country for a single day the clock resets.  Others say short holidays are allowed in the two years.  

 

I'd be very surprised if 'extended' holidays are allowed though.  That's just gaming the system.

The time spent in Australia is accumulative, you can take a few months overseas and on return your two year expiry date is extended by that period.

I don't think that I've wasted an evening so spectacularly since I gave up drinking, I suggest that some of you guys write to the minister for Social Services if you need further information.

 

https://christianporter.dss.gov.au/contact

[halloween]

1 minute ago, sceadugenga said:

The time spent in Australia is accumulative, you can take a few months overseas and on return your two year expiry date is extended by that period.

I don't think that I've wasted an evening so spectacularly since I gave up drinking, I suggest that some of you guys write to the minister for Social Services if you need further information.

 

https://christianporter.dss.gov.au/contact

That was how I understood it, and based my 4 years working before OAP as having a minimum of 2 years in country in case they applied that rule the other way. I have just barely resided long enough to acquire tax residence, 185-6 days being the usual.

Besides the tax threshold, I also become a low income earner with other tax benefits.

[Will27]

30 minutes ago, moojar said:

^ I'm not sure on that David.  Some say the two years is two years uninterrupted, and if you leave the country for a single day the clock resets.  Others say short holidays are allowed in the two years.  

 

I'd be very surprised if 'extended' holidays are allowed though.  That's just gaming the system.

 

Some people seem to be of the opinion that just because you're an Aussie citizen, you can be living overseas

for 10 years or so, and then come back, get the OAP and take off again.

[superglue]

David Walden

My request for assistance has been sent off to the Oz Embassy.

Thank you for your assistance & patience. 

[tryasimight]

2 hours ago, halloween said:

That was how I understood it, and based my 4 years working before OAP as having a minimum of 2 years in country in case they applied that rule the other way. I have just barely resided long enough to acquire tax residence, 185-6 days being the usual.

Besides the tax threshold, I also become a low income earner with other tax benefits.

i too have 4 years to go but I think super will stuff me for the pension, although I'm sure there will be ways of minimising the apparent super somehow.

The pension might not be a huge amount but it would be nice to know that there is something coming in and not having to watch the super slowly drain away - even if it is invested elsewhere. A little regular pocket money would be great.

The 2 year rule/35 year residency (and from what I understand you didn't have to work a day in those 35 years) sucks,  I can understand the spirit of the law to a certain extent but it's a catch all and hurts the fair dinkum Aussie as well as those who it was intended for.

Add the changes to capital gains tax if you sell your house and you are a non resident for tax purposes and the whole show is a shambles.

i can;t see it changing either with Shorten playing the politics of envy and Turnbull being a spineless tosser.

[halloween]

21 minutes ago, tryasimight said:

i too have 4 years to go but I think super will stuff me for the pension, although I'm sure there will be ways of minimising the apparent super somehow.

The pension might not be a huge amount but it would be nice to know that there is something coming in and not having to watch the super slowly drain away - even if it is invested elsewhere. A little regular pocket money would be great.

The 2 year rule/35 year residency (and from what I understand you didn't have to work a day in those 35 years) sucks,  I can understand the spirit of the law to a certain extent but it's a catch all and hurts the fair dinkum Aussie as well as those who it was intended for.

Add the changes to capital gains tax if you sell your house and you are a non resident for tax purposes and the whole show is a shambles.

i can;t see it changing either with Shorten playing the politics of envy and Turnbull being a spineless tosser.

Could be well worth the effort to qualify for the OAP pension even if you have a zero payment. Circumstances have been known to change radically and it's always good to have a fallback position.

[tryasimight]

1 minute ago, halloween said:

Could be well worth the effort to qualify for the OAP pension even if you have a zero payment. Circumstances have been known to change radically and it's always good to have a fallback position.

Good idea...i had never thought of that. Qualify but get nothing initially and then maybe at a later date get some money. At least the 2 years penal would be out of the way.

[4MyEgo]

On 02/10/2017 at 10:38 PM, sceadugenga said:

Description of the measure

 

Once the pensioner has been overseas for a period of 6 weeks, their payment rate will change depending on the number of years they lived in Australia during their working life.

Currently, customers can remain absent from Australia for 26 weeks before their pension rate is adjusted. This will decrease to 6 weeks for those who leave Australia on or after 1 January 2017.

 

While your intentions are good, the information provided by the website is misleading to say the least as far as I have researched the upper house did not pass the changes, i.e. and as far as researching the net, its still 26 weeks, the 6 weeks they were hoping for didn't get the vote through, so its only the extras's that get reduced after 6 weeks, i.e. electricity etc etc, so the pension itself doesn't get reduced in fact..

 

I am open to any information advising otherwise, but this red flag is an absolute disgrace, and is probably there to discourage people going overseas with their pension, that would sound about right, I hope.

[4MyEgo]

On 02/10/2017 at 11:07 PM, sceadugenga said:

Will you please read the section of the Act that I posted.

 

Sorry to say this sceadungenga, that was a copy and pasted post of the website, human services if I am correct, the legislation was not passed, therefore the 26 weeks still applies, the only thing that gets reduced after 6 weeks is the suppliment they give you around $35 for electricity etc etc, from my understanding, as mentioned earlier, there is nothing on the web to say the upper house passed it:

 

https://www.yourlifechoices.com.au/news/pension-portability-changes-approved

[4MyEgo]

On 03/10/2017 at 1:32 AM, keithpa said:

For goodness sake, get your facts straights. Get the 2 years out of your brain. Im talking to brick  walls, Im, over and out.

 

I will buy into this to try and clear it up.

 

If you lived in Australia up to the qualifying old age pension age and were paid the pension prior to moving overseas, it is portable.

 

If you lived overseas before you reached the old age pension age and were a non resident, i.e. lived overseas for a continuing period of 183 days or more and didn't declare yourself as a resident of Australia, then you would have to apply for the OAP in person, in Australia and stay in Australia for the 2 years when you receive it, or go back two years prior to establish your residency, and once approved for your pension, the you can farrrk off, so to speak.

 

Sounds like you were living there before you left, having received the pension first ?