Australian Aged Pension

[4MyEgo]

3 hours ago, sceadugenga said:

Breaking news is that Barnaby Joyce, Deputy PM just bit the dust.

The major parties will be thinking about going into election mode, might be an idea to email or call your MP with your wish list.

Age pension portability is an easy fix, it costs the government little and the pensioner vote will matter.

Mate they system is struggling as it is, and those tossers couldn't give a rats arse about us Xpats, because they know the 2 year rule is probably a 50/50 bet that some of us won't go back, i.e. can't afford to sit it out back in Australia, let alone want too.

 

But I wish you and anyone else every success, because those C..ts know foreign residents can't vote, so we are not a threat to them. 

[Freed1948]

As long as you are an Australian citizen and remain on the Electoral roll you can vote.

You are right that they don't give a rat's arse about us OAPs.

What they have done to the OAP over the last 3 or 4 years is nothing short of criminal.

The minister for social services, on a salary of $200,000 + per year to stand up and declare that OAPs  on $23,000 per year

will be better off with their $6.00 increase per fortnight is an EFFN <deleted>.

[4MyEgo]

11 hours ago, Freed1948 said:

As long as you are an Australian citizen and remain on the Electoral roll you can vote.

You are right that they don't give a rat's arse about us OAPs.

What they have done to the OAP over the last 3 or 4 years is nothing short of criminal.

The minister for social services, on a salary of $200,000 + per year to stand up and declare that OAPs  on $23,000 per year

will be better off with their $6.00 increase per fortnight is an EFFN <deleted>.

Now you can't help but laugh now knowing that Barnaby Joyce and several other federal MPs have been branded as foreign citizens as the high court handed down its decision.

 

I hope they feel how we feel.

[bazza73]

21 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Now you can't help but laugh now knowing that Barnaby Joyce and several other federal MPs have been branded as foreign citizens as the high court handed down its decision.

 

I hope they feel how we feel.

Raises a very good question - are they still entitled to the parliamentary pension?

[4MyEgo]

31 minutes ago, bazza73 said:

Raises a very good question - are they still entitled to the parliamentary pension?

That does raise a very good question.

 

No doubt as they are Australian Citizens, they would be entitled to the old age pension, as most of us would be.

 

As for a parliamentarians pension, I would think not, because the high court has ruled that they cannot be in parliament, therefore no parliamentarian pension should apply. 

 

I would love to see them all pay for their legal & court costs as it was them who filled in their applications incorrectly and the onus was on them to prove that they in fact did not have dual citizenship, or were entitled to have dual citizenship, remember, "ignorance has no protection under law", therefore their ignorance should not be paid for by the Australian tax payers, only a cool $2,000,000, which could service some of us future old age pensions no doubt 555

[bazza73]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

That does raise a very good question.

 

No doubt as they are Australian Citizens, they would be entitled to the old age pension, as most of us would be.

 

As for a parliamentarians pension, I would think not, because the high court has ruled that they cannot be in parliament, therefore no parliamentarian pension should apply. 

 

I would love to see them all pay for their legal & court costs as it was them who filled in their applications incorrectly and the onus was on them to prove that they in fact did not have dual citizenship, or were entitled to have dual citizenship, remember, "ignorance has no protection under law", therefore their ignorance should not be paid for by the Australian tax payers, only a cool $2,000,000, which could service some of us future old age pensions no doubt 555

I would love to see that too; however, I don't think it is going to happen.

[oxymoron]

On 10/16/2017 at 6:39 PM, ELVIS123456 said:

And you are right - we have to 'play' or we get nothing back.  Yanks and Poms can apply when they are overseas. It annoys me that the socialist welfare state that is now Oz, spends so much on dole bludgers and druggies and refugees and single mums and others, but makes is hard for people who have paid taxes/contributed for over 30 years to get the pension and live overseas in their 'dying' years.

While the first part of your comment is fair enough, I am tired of all you people who believe you are entitled to an OAP pension because you contributed to it through your Tax installments of any kind over your working life. YOU DID NOT unless you are now in excess of 85 years old.

 

The Tax we paid over the years went into "consolidated revenue" still does and provides for the "social expenditure " of Centrelink on an annual basis. ie those getting OAP and dole as you call it etc TODAY. So if everybody in OZ downs tools tomorrow and no revenue is collected you all miss out.

 

The element of TAX that was separately accounted for the OAP was absorbed around 1948.

 

They did a similar thing with all the Super Contributions of the armed forces PMG and other Federal Goverment employees including the politicians. All went well until a few smart Polly's woke up that they really did not have any Super hence the sale of Telecom Australia /Telstra in1997 and the creation of the Future Fund.

 

Yanks and Poms have a completely different system, 401k etc.

What they get is essentially their contributed monies back. It is like a Government run Super Scheme in some ways.(my analogy)

 

By the way the Australian Politicians are  now discussing something similar, behind closed doors, so the can get their hands on the Billions and Billions of $ the private Super world has to play with.

[bazza73]

1 hour ago, oxymoron said:

 

By the way the Australian Politicians are  now discussing something similar, behind closed doors, so the can get their hands on the Billions and Billions of $ the private Super world has to play with.

Which is why I have closed down my SMSF. As a side benefit, I found not having to pay for an accountant and auditor improved my bottom line.

I might just point out if it was not for the abysmal performance of ASIC and the politicians before, during and after the GFC, there would be many Australians who would not be needing the OAP, in part or in full.

[ELVIS123456]

3 hours ago, oxymoron said:

While the first part of your comment is fair enough, I am tired of all you people who believe you are entitled to an OAP pension because you contributed to it through your Tax installments of any kind over your working life. YOU DID NOT unless you are now in excess of 85 years old.

 

The Tax we paid over the years went into "consolidated revenue" still does and provides for the "social expenditure " of Centrelink on an annual basis. ie those getting OAP and dole as you call it etc TODAY. So if everybody in OZ downs tools tomorrow and no revenue is collected you all miss out.

 

The element of TAX that was separately accounted for the OAP was absorbed around 1948.

 

They did a similar thing with all the Super Contributions of the armed forces PMG and other Federal Goverment employees including the politicians. All went well until a few smart Polly's woke up that they really did not have any Super hence the sale of Telecom Australia /Telstra in1997 and the creation of the Future Fund.

 

Yanks and Poms have a completely different system, 401k etc.

What they get is essentially their contributed monies back. It is like a Government run Super Scheme in some ways.(my analogy)

 

By the way the Australian Politicians are  now discussing something similar, behind closed doors, so the can get their hands on the Billions and Billions of $ the private Super world has to play with.

Fair enough.  But the point I made about getting the pension (and others) is more about that it is 'given away' to others who have contributed nothing much (refugees, dole bludgers, druggies, etc etc), but those of us who have contributed  by paying taxes for a lifetime (in my case a LOT of taxes) get annoyed when 'they' try to stop us getting the OAP.

 

Now you may not like the OAP,  nor agree with the way it is structured, but the reality is that it is a 'right' in Aust and I and others should be fairly able to access that 'right'.  Making us go through hoops to get that 'right' because we dont fit some arbitrary rule, that was introduced a long time after I started paying taxes and done purely to reduce the costs of the OAP,  and to keep changing those rules, is IMO unfair.  When I started working retirement age was 65, now it is 67 and soon it will be 70.  Now you might think that it is not a 'right', but I can assure you it has been part of planning for retirement in Australia for a long long time - and one reason we pay higher tax rates than US etc etc.

 

Let me give you an example of how copulated up it has become with all the tinkering by both sides of politics.  There are currently more people receiving the Disability Support Pension, than there are on the Age Pension.  Think about that - go and find out why (Google) - and then think about why they dont 'tinker' with DSP as much as they do with OAP.  And then think about this - I know three blokes who are on the DSP - they are all in better shape than me - but they knew how to 'play the system' and they got in quick when Rudd opened it all up and made it easy to qualify.  That is just one example - there are many many more.  And yet someone like me who plays it straight and doesnt play the system, continually gets my 'rights' reduced and made harder to get.  I dont want anything from the Govt - never have - just my OAP thank you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bazza73]

9 minutes ago, ELVIS123456 said:

Fair enough.  But the point I made about getting the pension (and others) is more about that it is 'given away' to others who have contributed nothing much (refugees, dole bludgers, druggies, etc etc), but those of us who have contributed  by paying taxes for a lifetime (in my case a LOT of taxes) get annoyed when 'they' try to stop us getting the OAP.

 

Now you may not like the OAP,  nor agree with the way it is structured, but the reality is that it is a 'right' in Aust and I and others should be fairly able to access that 'right'.  Making us go through hoops to get that 'right' because we dont fit some arbitrary rule, that was introduced a long time after I started paying taxes and done purely to reduce the costs of the OAP,  and to keep changing those rules, is IMO unfair.  When I started working retirement age was 65, now it is 67 and soon it will be 70.  Now you might think that it is not a 'right', but I can assure you it has been part of planning for retirement in Australia for a long long time - and one reason we pay higher tax rates than US etc etc.

 

Let me give you an example of how copulated up it has become with all the tinkering by both sides of politics.  There are currently more people receiving the Disability Support Pension, than there are on the Age Pension.  Think about that - go and find out why (Google) - and then think about why they dont 'tinker' with DSP as much as they do with OAP.  And then think about this - I know three blokes who are on the DSP - they are all in better shape than me - but they knew how to 'play the system' and they got in quick when Rudd opened it all up and made it easy to qualify.  That is just one example - there are many many more.  And yet someone like me who plays it straight and doesnt play the system, continually gets my 'rights' reduced and made harder to get.  I dont want anything from the Govt - never have - just my OAP thank you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do not see any reason to apologize for getting everything I can from the pension system. Not when you consider an absolute retard like Tony Abbott is entitled to a pension of $300K per year when he eventually retires from Parliament. Or Joe Hockey, who is double dipping with a pension PLUS what he gets as the US ambassador. If there's a better adjective than obscene, I'd like to know.

Play the system? You betcha.

[Freed1948]

Ahh! Pollies, Pensioners and entitlements.

Tar the Pollies with the same brush as they are doing to OAPs and watch them scream.

[Lizard2010]

Or Bromwyn Bishop who get A$670 compared to a pensioner on A$ 57 per day

No matter what anyone thinks  you need to look at how many people are actually on a USA Pension and how they get it easy

I know of many men who get the Pension from the USA and are even able to access there wifes pension before they are due

Many people were put on the DSP when Howard was in power 

Because he wanted people off Newstart  To make the figures look good

If the Government had not given the 5% in tax relief which was for the pension fund

We would not be arguing about this

Maybe look at how many people are on the welfare system in the UK

All Governments are required to look after everyone  but they do not 

They look after themselves first

IMHO

 

[halloween]

On 10/28/2017 at 2:38 PM, bazza73 said:

I would love to see that too; however, I don't think it is going to happen.

The ruling was that they had no legal right to nominate for a parliament seat, so they have NO accumulated pension until re-elected. They are now discussing whether any ministerial decisions have any standing.

[ELVIS123456]

On 10/30/2017 at 12:57 PM, halloween said:

The ruling was that they had no legal right to nominate for a parliament seat, so they have NO accumulated pension until re-elected. They are now discussing whether any ministerial decisions have any standing.

If there is an outcome that affects the standing of any ministerial decision such that they are invalid, this will be a nightmare and will have huge significance. It has been a common practice for members and senators in Aust to have dual-citizenship, going right back to when the Commonwealth was started.  I just cant see anything being over-turned, as it would mean over-turning every decision by anyone with dual-citizenship going back to ........ ??

[halloween]

14 hours ago, ELVIS123456 said:

If there is an outcome that affects the standing of any ministerial decision such that they are invalid, this will be a nightmare and will have huge significance. It has been a common practice for members and senators in Aust to have dual-citizenship, going right back to when the Commonwealth was started.  I just cant see anything being over-turned, as it would mean over-turning every decision by anyone with dual-citizenship going back to ........ ??

The current line is that decisions were made by cabinet and carried out by ministers. Pesticides and Vet Medicine likely to challenge move to Armidale from Canberra.

[Lizard2010]

Just now, halloween said:

The current line is that decisions were made by cabinet and carried out by ministers. Pesticides and Vet Medicine likely to challenge move to Armidale from Canberra.

This reminds me of Joe Bejele Peterson in QLD

he had a Airfield and roads done around his area

Talk about Politicians Graft

Banaby Joyce should be investigated for moving the Pesticides and Vet Medicine to his Area

Everyone says it is not a good move

Only for is Electorate  to look good

[keithpa]

On 10/18/2017 at 2:11 PM, bazza73 said:

"and own your own home without affecting your payment".

This is where it gets tricky. I'm on a part pension. I'm single. If I was to buy a property here, irrespective of value, I would lose  a lot in pension. So obviously I'm going to rent.

Somehow, Centrelink has created an anomaly where if you are on the full pension, home ownership is OK. On a part pension, you get savaged. The higher the assets are, the worse it gets.Here's a link:

 

http://www.yourpension.com.au/APCalc/#CalcForm

 

Plug in a few numbers for single homeowner vs single non-homeowner with assets above the threshold for a full pension, and you'll see what I mean.

You are a good man for being prepared to tell CL if you buy a property here. Thousands of others wouldnt bother to, as its not necessary .

[Nemises]

You are a good man for being prepared to tell CL if you buy a property here. Thousands of others wouldnt bother to, as its not necessary .

If he doesn’t disclose his Thai property and they (Centrelink) find out, is that not fraudulent with the possibility of fines/jail?

[keithpa]

31 minutes ago, Gregster said:

 

If he doesn’t disclose his Thai property and they (Centrelink) find out, is that not fraudulent with the possibility of fines/jail?

I can swear on a stack of bibles that I do not and have never owned any realestate in Thailand.

[bazza73]

6 hours ago, keithpa said:

You are a good man for being prepared to tell CL if you buy a property here. Thousands of others wouldnt bother to, as its not necessary .

It is necessary, because we are in an age where data matching is getting more and more sophisticated. For example, there is nothing to say a Centrelink employee is not tasked with reading posts on this forum/thread. Immigration, Centrelink and the ATO all talk to each other.

Call me paranoid. I know if I play it straight Centrelink will continue to pay me a nice sum every fortnight.

The people that get caught out are the ones that start bleating about how unfair Centrelink is.

[giddyup]

2 minutes ago, bazza73 said:

It is necessary, because we are in an age where data matching is getting more and more sophisticated. For example, there is nothing to say a Centrelink employee is not tasked with reading posts on this forum/thread. Immigration, Centrelink and the ATO all talk to each other.

Call me paranoid. I know if I play it straight Centrelink will continue to pay me a nice sum every fortnight.

The people that get caught out are the ones that start bleating about how unfair Centrelink is.

How does a CL employee distinguish who you are from a user name?  I don't tell them any more than they need to know, and in 8 years always flown under the radar and never drawn attention to myself. The CL payments have been like clockwork with no questions asked.

[bazza73]

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

How does a CL employee distinguish who you are from a user name?  I don't tell them any more than they need to know, and in 8 years always flown under the radar and never drawn attention to myself. The CL payments have been like clockwork with no questions asked.

If they are persistent enough, they can do some detecting based on what you say to narrow down your identity. And if you believe the TV database can't be hacked to connect your user name to your IP address, I have a bridge in Sydney I'd like to sell you.

If you are doing anything against Centrelink rules, as distinct from flying under the radar, the longer it goes on, the more interest they develop in retribution.

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, bazza73 said:

If they are persistent enough, they can do some detecting based on what you say to narrow down your identity. And if you believe the TV database can't be hacked to connect your user name to your IP address, I have a bridge in Sydney I'd like to sell you.

If you are doing anything against Centrelink rules, as distinct from flying under the radar, the longer it goes on, the more interest they develop in retribution.

Not sure if they have the resources to go on those kind of witch hunts when there's plenty of locals who are rorting the system. I'm surprised in 8 years I've never had a request to update my info like earnings/income etc.

[bazza73]

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

Not sure if they have the resources to go on those kind of witch hunts when there's plenty of locals who are rorting the system. I'm surprised in 8 years I've never had a request to update my info like earnings/income etc.

You're probably right. I'm supposed to update changes in stuff like my shareholdings, bank accounts etc. as they occur. As I point out to a Centrelink employee every time I am in Oz, how am I supposed to do that when the online system blocks me for months at a time?

[Nemises]

Today’s news: Aussie Centrelink benefits cheat gets jail time.....


http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/david-fafitas-wife-told-she-faces-jail-term-for-centrelink-benefits-rort/news-story/8bbb19e3b64e34608fbef84f503116d9

[bazza73]

1 hour ago, Gregster said:

Today’s news: Aussie Centrelink benefits cheat gets jail time.....


http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/david-fafitas-wife-told-she-faces-jail-term-for-centrelink-benefits-rort/news-story/8bbb19e3b64e34608fbef84f503116d9

The link is not much use when it immediately directs you to the subscription page. At least Fairfax gives you ten free articles a month before asking you to pay.

I would eat razor blades before I would pay any money for a Murdoch rag. You can get free news on the ABC website, which is why the c***####er keeps trying to destroy the ABC.

[Nemises]

Another link...

http://www.news.com.au/national/courts-law/david-fifitas-wife-jailed-for-rorting-50000-centrelink-payments/news-story/b682e589013ce5f3092cfb6fe8581627

[bazza73]

2 hours ago, Gregster said:

Another link...

http://www.news.com.au/national/courts-law/david-fifitas-wife-jailed-for-rorting-50000-centrelink-payments/news-story/b682e589013ce5f3092cfb6fe8581627

Better thanks. Interesting that the marriage she got nailed on was in Thailand.

[ELVIS123456]

Interesting discussion as always.  Having some close experience in the matter at hand (with CLink processes and people), I can say that most cases that end up in court like the one above, start with someone dobbing in someone else.  The next most frequent cases, are those where the 'management/Minister' direct DHS to undertake a review of a certain type of recipient (eg. Expats overseas). And the next frequency is when someone in CLink/DHS/ATO comes across something and thinks it needs further investigation.  

 

My advice to everyone is still the same as before - bend them but dont break them - and if challenged dont deny, but plead ignorance (really? I didnt know that! Are you sure?) and if caught red handed , ask for forgiveness for making a mistake and not knowing.  I cant stress that enough guys. The investigators are very experienced and skilled in getting the info they need/want, and they have very broad rights when investigating a possible fraud. 

[Nemises]

Better thanks. Interesting that the marriage she got nailed on was in Thailand.

Also interesting is how she paid back the (fraudulently obtained) $50,000 and yet STILL she got a jail sentence.

Aus courts these days are showing little mercy on welfare cheats...