Australian Aged Pension

David Walden · April 12, 2018

On 4/10/2018 at 4:13 AM, halloween said:

The work bonus scheme allows you to earn an additional $6500 pa FROM EMPLOYMENT without loss of pension.

Sort of. It's the credit you receive from Centrelink that can be used in the future if you are not currently being employed. If you have $6500 worth of work bonus credits which you get for not working, when you do go to work you still get the normal thresholds and bonus but you 50 cents in the dollar reduction will not come into play until you have used up your $6500 credits. All pensioner who do not have a job for sometime will have a $6500 credit which they can use if they do get a job, the 50 cents in the dollar reduction does not come into play until after you have used up all your $6500 credits.

Edited April 12, 2018 by David Walden

David Walden · April 13, 2018

On 4/2/2018 at 7:16 AM, Gregster said:

Below is an article about AUS OAP portability from this month's (April 2018) edition of International Living Australia.

ILA is a "subscriber only" magazine so I was unable to post a link to this report. The only way I could share the report with you was to copy and paste it, which I have done in it's entirety.

I hope it assists TVF members who will be applying for portability in the future.

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What You Need to Know About Taking Your Age Pension Overseas

If the Age Pension is an important part of your overseas retirement plan…you’re probably confused. And you’re not alone. I’ve researched this question of whether you can take your Age Pension overseas—and if so, how—for a couple of years now. And I’ve discovered that you can’t get all the facts in one place. Sure, there’s a lot of information online. Try googling “Can I take my Australian Age Pension overseas?” But the problem is that not only are many websites out of date…they’re also incomplete. Even Centrelink’s own website only tells part of the story. Adding to our confusion is that the rules change. In January 2017 we saw a change in the thresholds for the assets test. And they threatened to change the rules for overseas portability of the Age Pension too (fortunately, this change didn’t pass legislation). No doubt further changes are in the wind. And as more baby boomers apply for the Age Pension, it’s inevitable that eligibility will tighten up. So, let’s clear the confusion by putting all the facts together in one place. I don’t believe you’ll find this anywhere else… Can you take your Age Pension overseas? Yes you can. But before you pack up and head off, there are things you must know. Because there’s a smart way to do it…and a not-so-smart way. If you’re currently receiving the Australian Age Pension, taking that pension with you on your overseas escape is pretty simple. I’ll talk more about that further on. If you’re not yet at pension age… but you don’t want to wait to experience life overseas…it’s a little trickier. It’s doable, but you need to understand the whole picture… and that’s where I will start…

Moving Overseas Before You Reach Pension Eligibility Age

If you live overseas prior to pension eligibility age—either parttime or full-time—your Australian residency may change. If you plan to escape overseas again, this is very important. Note: We are not talking about residency for taxation purposes here. This is different. I’m talking about residency for Age Pension eligibility: The Age Pension is only for Australian residents therefore you have must prove that you are an Australian resident and that you intend to maintain that status. First, you must return to Australia to apply for the Age Pension, unless you are living in a country that Australia has a Social Security Agreement with (more on this later). When you rock up to your local Centrelink office to apply for the pension, a decision will be made: Are you still an Australian resident or are you a former resident? If you are deemed an Australian resident, there are no restrictions—you can go back overseas as soon as you’ve received your first pension payment and continue to receive your pension indefinitely. If, however, you are deemed a former resident, you will be forced to stay in Australia for two years before moving overseas again (more on this later).

Now, the frustrating thing is that you won’t find information on this anywhere online; not even on the Department of Human Services website. That’s because there are no black and white rules— the decision is completely arbitrary and is at the discretion of the Centrelink officer handling your application. Even the Centrelink website is very unclear on this—it simply states that if you’ve been outside Australia (no timeframe given), you have to wait two years after successfully applying for the pension before you head overseas again. And that’s not entirely true. If that Centrelink officer has any doubt whatsoever that your absence from Australia was more than just a holiday, they’ll refer your application to Centrelink’s International Services Board. Your application is now in the “complex” basket. It’s very important to understand how Centrelink makes their decision about your residency. Here goes… The decision is based on how long you are away overseas for, the reason for your absence and also how strong your ties to Australia are considered to be by Centrelink. Let me show you how discretionary this decision is. I spoke to three different officers at Centrelink’s International Services Board. This is what they said when I asked the question “If I live overseas before pension age, then return to Australia to apply for the pension, will I be considered an Australian resident or a former resident?”. The first officer told me that if I’ve only been away three to five years, then it’s likely I will be categorised as an Australian resident because, in his opinion, that isn’t a very long time to be overseas. The second officer said that, in her opinion, three to five years was a really long time and there is no way I’d be categorised as an Australian resident if I’d been gone that long. She indicated that I’d need to have been away for less than a year, maybe even no more than a few months, to be considered an Australian resident rather than a former resident. If I’d been away for an “extended” period of time, then I’d be categorised a former resident, no question. I asked what “extended” means. She told me that there is no definition—it’s at the discretion of the Centrelink Officer you get. The third officer said quite firmly that if I am away for more than two years, I’ll be deemed a former resident. Anything under that, I can easily argue that I was away on holidays and never intended to stay permanently overseas. You get the point. But can you influence their decision? Yes, you can if you understand what they take into consideration. When assessing your residency, Centrelink look at how long you’ve been away and what you were doing while overseas. Most importantly, they’re looking at where your ties are strongest—in Australia or in the country you were living in overseas? They’ll look at things like your real estate, family connections, other assets, bank accounts. So, if you’re living in your home in Australia when you get back, you have close links with relatives who live in Australia, you have financial ties and other assets in Australia—those things will all help your case. They’re not all essential, but they will help. You need to provide a story that persuades Centrelink you are still a current Australian resident. And that your intention is to stay in Australia. Perhaps your story might explain the reason for your overseas absence: living it up while you’re young enough to enjoy it, doing the backpacker thing you never did when you were younger…whatever. But just don’t say that you’re road-testing destinations for an overseas move down the track or anything of that nature. And do not say that you are planning to head overseas again once you’ve got the pension. With this in mind, think before you do anything that will impact your story. Selling your Australian home, buying a home overseas, marrying overseas. I’m not saying don’t do these things; just understand that you’ll need to be able to weave them into a story that supports your case. It mightn’t hurt to be a little careful with any social media posts. Perhaps keep an Australian bank account open, keep lodging tax returns and stay on the electoral roll. So what happens if, despite all your evidence and arguments, Centrelink decides that you are a former resident? There is an appeals process. And I was told by the first officer with Centrelink International Services that nine times out of 10 the applicant wins this argument. But the second officer wouldn’t say what your chances would be. At the end of the day, the worst thing that can happen is that your appeal fails and the former resident tag sticks. You can still apply for the Age Pension but, after being granted the pension you will have to stay in Australia for two years before moving overseas again. You can leave temporarily, for example for a holiday, but you won’t receive the pension while you are away. But, the good news is that your absence overseas is included in the two-year period. But beware: If you’re away for more than a reasonable time (and there is no official definition for “reasonable”), Centrelink may decide that you are once more a former resident and may cancel your pension, meaning that you will have to re-apply for the pension all over again, and start the two-year period all over again. There’s an exception to this rule however: During the two year period, if you travel to a country that has a Social Security Agreement with Australia, you will still get paid your pension and you can stay in that country as long as you wish.

Social Security Agreements

Australia has a Social Security Agreement with 31 countries, including New Zealand, Spain, Portugal, Malta, Italy, Ireland and the U.S.A. These agreements are designed to share the cost of social security between two countries in situations where someone has a residency claim in both countries. For example, a New Zealander who moves to Australia for work and then moves back to New Zealand in their later years, may be eligible to claim a part-pension from both New Zealand and Australia. In order to be eligible for the Australian Age Pension, you must first also be claiming a part-pension or full pension from the foreign country you are living in. This requirement helps make sure that the Australian government does not pay Age Pensions to people who already have enough income and assets in another country to pay for their retirement. If you live in a country with a Social Security Agreement with Australia, you may be able to apply for the pension without returning to Australia. If you’ve lived (or live) in one of these 31 countries, Centrelink’s International Services Board can help with Age Pension applications to both countries. You won’t get more than the Australian Age Pension, but the Australian government may top up the amount you get in that other country so that your total pension is equivalent to your eligible Australian pension amount. Contact Centrelink International Services on 131 673 (from overseas, there are international numbers). You can download the instruction pdf for the relevant country here.

Why Not Try a Roving Retirement?

If you are not currently on the Age Pension, but don’t want to wait to experience life overseas, how do you avoid being categorised as a former resident when you return to apply for the Age Pension? There are no guarantees, but…a roving retirement might be a great solution. Remember, however, that if you’re away continuously for an “extended” period, it’s likely you will be challenged by Centrelink over your residency. So, maybe come back to Australia from time to time and don’t try to apply for the pension the day after you return. Spend some time back in Australia first. And make it clear to Centrelink that you were overseas having a holiday…or two. You’ve read lots of stories in International Living Australia about other Aussies doing this. It’s a great opportunity to try out the expat life and see if you like it. You’ll also have the opportunity to try out the places on your shortlist…or put your shortlist together. Have some fun without the pressure of committing. Who knows? You might just find your happy place.

If You’re Already Receiving the Age Pension

If you’re already receiving the Age Pension, you can move overseas and continue receiving your pension into either your Australian bank account or a nominated account overseas. For the first 26 weeks overseas, everyone continues to receive the same amount they received in Australia. After 26 weeks overseas, most people will continue to receive their usual pension amount indefinitely. But some people will receive less. It all depends on the Australian Working Life Residency, or AWLR. This rule causes a lot of confusion—partly because the government threatened to reduce the 26-week period to just six weeks back in January 2017. Fortunately, that measure was scrapped and the 26-week period stands…for now. Here’s how the AWLR works…

The Australian Working Life Residency (AWLR)

The AWLR measures the number of years you’ve lived in Australia between the ages of 16 and 65. You do not have to have worked any or all of this time; simply living in Australia is enough. The benchmark is an AWLR score of 35 years. This means that if you have 35 years or more living in Australia between the ages of 16 and 65, you are entitled to the full amount of pension as determined by the income and asset tests. If you have lived in Australia for less than 35 years between the ages of 16 and 65, your AWLR score is lower. This means that, once you’ve been overseas for more than 26 weeks, you will get a lower Age Pension amount. For example, if your AWLR is 20 years, then you’ll be entitled to 20/35ths of your means-tested Age Pension once you’ve been overseas for more than 26 weeks. On the other hand, if your AWLR is 35 years or more, then after 26 weeks overseas, you will continue to receive your full means-tested Age Pension amount indefinitely. Note that the AWLR only affects those age pensioners not living in Australia. If you spend time outside Australia, for example to work in another country, you may continue to accrue AWLR during your absence, provided that you are considered to be an Australian resident during the absence and you have not yet reached Age Pension age. In addition, if you spend time in a country that has an International Social Security Agreement with Australia, then the years spent in that country can be included alongside your years spent in Australia to calculate your AWLR. If you are unsure about your AWLR, phone Centrelink International Services on 131 673 and they will help you to calculate it. Also visit here. Note that the 35-year benchmark was introduced on 1 July 2014. Prior to that date, it was only 25 years. Age pensioners who were already living overseas on 1 July 2014 were grandfathered by the old AWLR rule of 25 years. This means that people living overseas on 1 July 2014 who are currently receiving the Age Pension are able to maintain the 25-year base for calculating their Age Pension amount. However, if they return to Australia for longer than 26 weeks they will be re-assessed under the new rule, i.e. the 35-year AWLR.

Your Pension Supplement

The Pension Supplement is designed to help age pensioners cover the cost of living in Australia. It is a combined payment of Pharmaceutical Allowance, Utilities Allowance, GST Supplement and Telephone Allowance. If you get the Age Pension, you automatically get the Supplement. Currently, it is approximately $80 per fortnight for a couple. If you are moving overseas temporarily or going on a holiday overseas, you will continue to receive the Supplement for six weeks. After six weeks overseas, your Supplement will stop altogether. But it will be reinstated automatically when you return. Note that if you are leaving Australia for more than six weeks, you should tell Centrelink (you can do this via your MyGov online account). If you are moving overseas permanently, you should advise Centrelink before you go. As soon as you go through Immigration, your Pension Supplement will stop. If you return to Australia, you need to contact Centrelink to have your Supplement reinstated. Your Age Pension, less the Pension Supplement, is commonly referred to as the “outside Australia rate”.

The Seniors Card

Generally, a Seniors Card is available to Australians aged 60 and over who are not working full-time. The cards are issued free by each state and territory government and enable holders to receive a wide range of discounts on public and commercial activities. This can be especially useful for those who have retired, or those who are working fewer hours but do not yet qualify for the Age Pension. Eligibility criteria and concessions vary by state/territory. Your Seniors Card will be cancelled after six weeks overseas. But it can be reinstated upon return to Australia by contacting Centrelink. The same applies to your Pensioner Concession Card and your Health Care Card. Tip: Keep these cards with you when you travel overseas—I’ve been told by one savvy traveller that, even though their Seniors Card had expired in Australia, they got seniors’ discounts overseas.

The Disability Support Pension (DSP)

Whilst the Disability Support Pension is totally separate from the Age Pension, I’ve included it here because International Living gets regular questions from readers about it. The Disability Support Pension provides financial help if you have a permanent physical, intellectual or psychiatric condition that stops you from working. To be eligible you must be between 16 years and Age Pension age (65-67 depending on your year of birth). You must be an Australian resident and it is means-tested, meaning that the amount you receive is dependent on income and assets tests. The question of whether you can take your DSP overseas is complex. The Disability Support Pension is only portable in some circumstances. Every case is different and is assessed based on the individual’s circumstances. If you are planning to move overseas permanently, Centrelink will assess your DSP conditions to determine whether your pension is portable and, if so, whether the amount of pension you receive will change when you move overseas. If you are planning to leave Australia temporarily, you can still receive some payment. Currently, you can travel overseas for up to four weeks in a 12-month period without it affecting your DSP. After four weeks, your DSP payment will be either suspended (if overseas for less than 16 weeks) or cancelled (if overseas for more than 16 weeks). If suspended, when you return to Australia you’ll need to contact Centrelink to have it reinstated. If cancelled, you’ll have to reapply (and there’s no guarantee you’ll get the same amount you were previously receiving). If you travel to a country which has an International Security Agreement with Australia, you may be able to get your payment under that Agreement. Contact Centrelink’s International Services Board on 131 673 for information relevant to your personal circumstances.

Change is a Given

Change is guaranteed. The government can—and does—change the rules from time to time. And as more baby boomers apply for the Age Pension, it’s inevitable that eligibility will tighten up. You’ve probably heard that the Liberal government wants to increase the Age Pension age to 70 years. Currently, the maximum pension eligibility age is 67. This would mean that anyone born on or after 1 January 1966 would not be eligible for the Age Pension until they turn 70. If you were born before that date, your pension age will increase proportionally (for example, for myself I’m currently eligible for the Age Pension at 67, but if this change came in I’d have to wait until 68.5 years). But the Libs have gone quiet on this plan due to electoral backlash and because they’ve not received any support for it from the ALP opposition or the minority parties. But…unless the Liberals withdraw this policy from their election platform, they still plan to increase the Age Pension age to 70 if they can secure a clear majority in the parliament in a future election (the next federal election is due in 2019). Remember though, that an increase in Age Pension eligibility age will not affect you if you already receive the pension.

What Happens If Things Change After You Move Overseas?

Once you’ve successfully moved overseas, and taken your Age Pension with you, what happens if your circumstances change or if the government changes the rules? If your income and/or assets change while you are overseas, you must tell Centrelink and your pension may be affected. This is no different to if you were in Australia and receiving the Age Pension. If the government changes any of the rules relating to the Age Pension, these changes will apply to you overseas. For example, if there is a CPI increase in the amount of the Age Pension, you will also receive this increase. Or if the assets test changes, let’s say, and the threshold changes, your pension will be affected, same as if you were in Australia. However, there is an exception here. If there is a change to the Age Pension rules that disadvantages you, as an overseas pension recipient (for example if the portability rules change), you will not be affected while you remain overseas. You will be “grandfathered” under the rule that existed at the time you went overseas. But, if you return to Australia, the new rules will apply to you if you stay for 26 weeks or more. This decision cannot be appealed and is irreversible. To illustrate, on 1 July 2014, the AWLR changed from 25 years to the current 35 years. People living overseas on 1 July 2014 who were currently receiving the Age Pension retained the 25-year base for calculating their pension amount. However, if they return to Australia for longer than 26 weeks they will be re-assessed under the new 35-year base should they leave Australia again. Centrelink will advise you by mail of any change that occurs. It is therefore very important to keep your contact details up to date with Centrelink. They will only send mail to a physical address (not email), so make sure they have your correct overseas address so that you don’t miss important communications. It’s a good idea to opt for electronic messaging on your MyGov account—that way you’ll be advised that a letter has been sent to you (you can’t read the letter on MyGov, but at least you know to expect it).

Stay Informed

The onus is on you to make sure you understand the rules as they apply to your own situation and to keep up to date with any changes that occur. A good way to do this is to read the Australian Pension News on the Department of Human Services website every April and October. Age Pension rates are indexed twice yearly and Centrelink assesses pension rates and thresholds four times each year. If you’re in the early stages of planning your overseas escape, Centrelink’s Financial Information Services (FIS) is a great starting point to help you to work out your Age Pension eligibility, based on your current assets and income. This is not your local Centrelink office, but a specialised and separate department. You can phone them on 132 300 (and, unlike Centrelink’s general number, you won’t be left hanging on hold for ages). You can also make a face-to-face appointment if your questions aren’t satisfied over the phone. Note that FIS will not answer questions concerning your entitlements overseas—they’ll refer you to their International Services Board for those. If you’re more than five years away from Age Pension eligibility, now is the time to start rethinking your assets and income (if you need to). Any restructuring you do within five years of pension eligibility will be scrutinised. It is highly recommended that you seek financial advice from a qualified financial advisor. For specific information relating to receiving the Age Pension overseas, contact the Centrelink International Services Board on 131 673. This is a phone service only as the Board is located in Tasmania. They will help you to work out your AWLR and can answer any other questions you have regarding your pension entitlements overseas.

Closing Thoughts

The worst thing you can do is adopt a “she’ll be right mate” attitude. Understand your current situation inside and out, and work out what you need to do if you intend taking the Age Pension overseas—whether that’s next year or in 10 years’ time. And be nice to anyone you deal with at Centrelink…really nice. They hold quite a bit of discretionary power in their fingertips. They’re human too, but a lot of clients don’t treat them that way.

Bonus Tip

You can apply for the Age Pension online (although you must be physically residing in Australia or in a Social Security Agreement country). Just make sure that your MyGov account is linked to Centrelink. You might find it useful to familiarise yourself with the required forms—the questions tell you what Centrelink are interested in. Even if not at pension age yet, these questions might help you to plan ahead.

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ENDS//

Just managed to find this lengthy but very important post about about applying for the Aus aged pension. Any who are applying soon or who have recently been grated an Aged Pension would do well to study it,,,,5 star

halloween · April 13, 2018

On 4/13/2018 at 2:32 AM, David Walden said:

Sort of. It's the credit you receive from Centrelink that can be used in the future if you are not currently being employed. If you have $6500 worth of work bonus credits which you get for not working, when you do go to work you still get the normal thresholds and bonus but you 50 cents in the dollar reduction will not come into play until you have used up your $6500 credits. All pensioner who do not have a job for sometime will have a $6500 credit which they can use if they do get a job, the 50 cents in the dollar reduction does not come into play until after you have used up all your $6500 credits.

That is what I posted, except I only needed one line.

David Walden · April 13, 2018

1 hour ago, halloween said:

That is what I posted, except I only needed one line.

Yes thank you I agree. And yes your advice was very very short.

scorecard · April 13, 2018

10 hours ago, David Walden said:

Just managed to find this lengthy but very important post about about applying for the Aus aged pension. Any who are applying soon or who have recently been grated an Aged Pension would do well to study it,,,,5 star

Interesting article, especially;

"Moving Overseas Before You Reach Pension Eligibility Age

If you live overseas prior to pension eligibility age—either parttime or full-time—your Australian residency may change. If you plan to escape overseas again, this is very important. Note: We are not talking about residency for taxation purposes here. This is different. I’m talking about residency for Age Pension eligibility: The Age Pension is only for Australian residents therefore you have must prove that you are an Australian resident..."

Can any TV member please share how the authorities determine whether you are still an Australian resident.

Is it purely time outside of OZ, or.....?

Do they check Taxation records, specifically whether tax returns have been lodged every year that you have been outside OZ?

Any other factors?

Is there in fact a specific process / document that needs to be completed to become a non-resident? Or does a person automatically become a non-resident because of specific items / factors?

Thanks.

Edited April 13, 2018 by scorecard

David Walden · April 14, 2018

4 hours ago, scorecard said:

Interesting article, especially;

"Moving Overseas Before You Reach Pension Eligibility Age

If you live overseas prior to pension eligibility age—either parttime or full-time—your Australian residency may change. If you plan to escape overseas again, this is very important. Note: We are not talking about residency for taxation purposes here. This is different. I’m talking about residency for Age Pension eligibility: The Age Pension is only for Australian residents therefore you have must prove that you are an Australian resident..."

Can any TV member please share how the authorities determine whether you are still an Australian resident.

Is it purely time outside of OZ, or.....?

Do they check Taxation records, specifically whether tax returns have been lodged every year that you have been outside OZ?

Any other factors?

Is there in fact a specific process / document that needs to be completed to become a non-resident? Or does a person automatically become a non-resident because of specific items / factors?

Thanks.

If you have been granted the Australian Aged Pension and you are within the asset and income thresholds It is very unlikely that you will pay tax as the tax threshold is about $35,000 (single)..If you have your assets in Super even if it's millions you will lose your pension but you will not be expected to put in a tax return. Super is not taxable. Gov is trying to change that, your all living too long ( the Govt is taking 15% on super profits by stealth anyway)....if you are married your tax free threshold "by offset" that is using your wife's tax threshold as well as your own you will be able to have an income of about $60,000 tax free, you keep the lot and never put in another tax return. I haven't put a tax return in for over 10 years. My super, bus driving job, my pension my wife's pension combined was short of the tax threshold. Just (approx $60,000). very few pensioners put in a tax return so not much benefit for Centrelink's investigations there.

Tax is self assessment, if you know you are under the limit with the offset don't bother... if you haven't bothered to apply for the tax offset and you get a job well your boss will take out tax and you will have to put a return in to get back what you have now overpaid what you didn't have to pay "silly" Maybe next year you'll get it back....very few pensioners with the $456,750 asset level threshold will pay tax or even put in a tax return, no tax payable on super...Joke "that's why I don't want to win lotto. I'd lose my pension and have to put in a tax return".

PS...if you are in receipt of the pension and you leave AUS you will have to provide a date of departure and a date for re-entry. If you don't provide a re-entry date they will assume you are leaving Aus permanently and things will happen as a result. e.g. Your pension supplement will stop the day you leave and not 6 weeks later, that will cost you about $170.00. Even if you have not decided what day you are coming back you must put something down and change it later. Even if you have a house a car and all your goods and chattels in Aus and don't show a return date you will be assessed as leaving Aus permanently.

Edited April 14, 2018 by David Walden
incomplete

Nemises · April 14, 2018

Interesting article, especially;

"Moving Overseas Before You Reach Pension Eligibility Age
If you live overseas prior to pension eligibility age—either parttime or full-time—your Australian residency may change. If you plan to escape overseas again, this is very important. Note: We are not talking about residency for taxation purposes here. This is different. I’m talking about residency for Age Pension eligibility: The Age Pension is only for Australian residents therefore you have must prove that you are an Australian resident..."

Can any TV member please share how the authorities determine whether you are still an Australian resident.

Is it purely time outside of OZ, or.....?

Do they check Taxation records, specifically whether tax returns have been lodged every year that you have been outside OZ?

Any other factors?

Is there in fact a specific process / document that needs to be completed to become a non-resident? Or does a person automatically become a non-resident because of specific items / factors?

Thanks.

Scorecard, I asked Centrelink the same questions just last week. There are no specific documents/processes that will determine if you are an Australian resident... it’s up to a Centrelink officer to make a decision at the time of your application.

They told me that they will look back at your last 5 years travel history.

If you have spent a lot of time in a particular country (Thailand) during those 5 years, they will need to determine if you have closer ties with Thailand or Australia. If they decide you have closer ties with Thailand then Australia, you will be classified as a non-resident. That’s my understanding. Others may agree or otherwise.

A few have posted on here recently, some good tips on how to keep close ties with Australia if having “lengthy holidays” in Thailand.

Hope this helps mate.

keithpa · April 14, 2018

8 hours ago, scorecard said:

Interesting article, especially;

"Moving Overseas Before You Reach Pension Eligibility Age

If you live overseas prior to pension eligibility age—either parttime or full-time—your Australian residency may change. If you plan to escape overseas again, this is very important. Note: We are not talking about residency for taxation purposes here. This is different. I’m talking about residency for Age Pension eligibility: The Age Pension is only for Australian residents therefore you have must prove that you are an Australian resident..."

Can any TV member please share how the authorities determine whether you are still an Australian resident.

Is it purely time outside of OZ, or.....?

Do they check Taxation records, specifically whether tax returns have been lodged every year that you have been outside OZ?

Any other factors?

Is there in fact a specific process / document that needs to be completed to become a non-resident? Or does a person automatically become a non-resident because of specific items / factors?

Thanks.

Yes, that is correct.

David Walden · April 14, 2018

Can any TV member please share how the authorities determine whether you are still an Australian resident.

Over the years I have made a practice of 3 months in Thailand 3 months back in Aus and used the 60 day plus 30 day extension tourist visa to make the 90 day period. I always notified Centrelink of my departure date and return date on line. I have now obtained a multi entry Retirement Visa which allows me to come and go as much as I please for about 2 years. When I go I have a rough idea when I might return I buy a ticket then...this is not good with Centrelink.

On this occasion with my present visa I bought a one way ticket to Thailand and no return ticket because I haven't decided when I'll come back but I will be coming back in July not quite sure when.

Because I have not indicated a date of return Centrelink has assessed me as having left Australia permanently. Deleted the pension supplement immediately from the day of leaving instead of the 6 weeks (coat about $170 loss). I still own a house in which I live in, in Aus, a registered car in my garage and all my personal belongings are located at my home address, in Australia. You must have a return date if going on holidays (That's me). I have written to Centrelink explaining my situation 3 weeks ago but no reply yet...what a ripoff.

It seems that anybody for the purpose pension payments who leaves the country without a return ticket and an intended date of return is assessed as having left Aus for good...this needs to change. You must put a date of return in the advice to Centrelink even if you don't know when you will be coming back. You can always change that date later.

Edited April 14, 2018 by David Walden

halloween · April 15, 2018

On 4/14/2018 at 1:27 PM, David Walden said:

If you have been granted the Australian Aged Pension and you are within the asset and income thresholds It is very unlikely that you will pay tax as the tax threshold is about $35,000 (single)..If you have your assets in Super even if it's millions you will lose your pension but you will not be expected to put in a tax return. Super is not taxable. Gov is trying to change that, your all living too long ( the Govt is taking 15% on super profits by stealth anyway)....if you are married your tax free threshold "by offset" that is using your wife's tax threshold as well as your own you will be able to have an income of about $60,000 tax free, you keep the lot and never put in another tax return. I haven't put a tax return in for over 10 years. My super, bus driving job, my pension my wife's pension combined was short of the tax threshold. Just (approx $60,000). very few pensioners put in a tax return so not much benefit for Centrelink's investigations there.

Tax is self assessment, if you know you are under the limit with the offset don't bother... if you haven't bothered to apply for the tax offset and you get a job well your boss will take out tax and you will have to put a return in to get back what you have now overpaid what you didn't have to pay "silly" Maybe next year you'll get it back....very few pensioners with the $456,750 asset level threshold will pay tax or even put in a tax return, no tax payable on super...Joke "that's why I don't want to win lotto. I'd lose my pension and have to put in a tax return".

PS...if you are in receipt of the pension and you leave AUS you will have to provide a date of departure and a date for re-entry. If you don't provide a re-entry date they will assume you are leaving Aus permanently and things will happen as a result. e.g. Your pension supplement will stop the day you leave and not 6 weeks later, that will cost you about $170.00. Even if you have not decided what day you are coming back you must put something down and change it later. Even if you have a house a car and all your goods and chattels in Aus and don't show a return date you will be assessed as leaving Aus permanently.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=income+tax+rates+australia+calculator&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=hsLTWv65BcvN8gew17-IDg

David Walden · April 16, 2018

5 hours ago, halloween said:

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=income+tax+rates+australia+calculator&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=hsLTWv65BcvN8gew17-IDg

https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/seniors-and-retirees/tax-offsets/

There is a minefield under the rules for tax payable for seniors and aged pensioners over 65 y/o under the SATPO offset rules. In a nut shell if you are in a relationship and an aged pensioner your threshold for tax is higher you can use your partners threshold to lower your taxable income as well. You pay lower or no tax. The good things about SATPO (if there are any good things about tax) allows you to have a job and earn well over the threshold by using your partners credits...but no such thing exists with Centrelink. Assets and incomes rules there still apply.

Edited April 16, 2018 by David Walden

halloween · April 17, 2018

On 4/16/2018 at 12:42 PM, David Walden said:

https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/seniors-and-retirees/tax-offsets/

There is a minefield under the rules for tax payable for seniors and aged pensioners over 65 y/o under the SATPO offset rules. In a nut shell if you are in a relationship and an aged pensioner your threshold for tax is higher you can use your partners threshold to lower your taxable income as well. You pay lower or no tax. The good things about SATPO (if there are any good things about tax) allows you to have a job and earn well over the threshold by using your partners credits...but no such thing exists with Centrelink. Assets and incomes rules there still apply.

SATPO is just a red herring. The tax threshold for all oz tax residents is $18,200. Centrelink allows you to earn ~$4,300 plus another $6500 from employment. After that $10,800 you will 50c/$ from your pension. Why would they bother taxing any further income when it is already costing you half your earnings?

David Walden · April 17, 2018

2 hours ago, halloween said:

SATPO is just a red herring. The tax threshold for all oz tax residents is $18,200. Centrelink allows you to earn ~$4,300 plus another $6500 from employment. After that $10,800 you will 50c/$ from your pension. Why would they bother taxing any further income when it is already costing you half your earnings?

Clearly you are responding to my post without doing any research whats so ever. The information I have given is from my own personal experience. I will agree that SATPO can be quite complex. In general the taxation thresholds for over 65 y/o are quite different for those under 65. A single person with or without the Aged pension can earn his pension of approx $24000 per year and also another $12,000 and pay no tax legit and on top of that, any super will be free of tax, Centrelink that is different. For a couple the tax free threshold goes up to somewhere near $60,000 . This mean that each member of a couple can receive the married rate of pension about $17,000, they are now both well below the aged pension married rate for tax. Between them they can each earn an additional $12/13,000 "yes each". One partner can allow the other one to use that tax free threshold thus creating a situation where the partner with a job will be able to earn $17,000 pension (married rate) plus another approx $25,000 and pay no tax at all. It's called SATPO. You can get an exemption from having tax deducted from your wages as I did when I drove the school bus so your entire wages are paid to you. I earned about $24,000 and that's what I got in my pay packet....but, if you don't apply for the exemption your employer must take the tax out and to get it back you will have to put in a tax return later...I did lose some of my pension under Centrelink rules, but that is separate item. We did have a smallish amount of super so that did have some effect...I wish you well but remember the TAX thesehold you have shown is for people under 65 y/o It is quite different for those over 65 y/o

SATPO is not a red herring it is a legit way of improving tax reduction for Aged pensioner couples. But, But, both of you must be receiving the Ages pension. Not much good if your wife is under pension age, then it's all RS.

Edited April 17, 2018 by David Walden

halloween · April 19, 2018

On 4/17/2018 at 5:49 PM, David Walden said:

SATPO is not a red herring it is a legit way of improving tax reduction for Aged pensioner couples

And while you are getting it, Kali's other arm is removing 50c in the dollar from your pension. Pardon me if I am not ecstatic.

sceadugenga · April 20, 2018

I received an email from an Australian Senator via her personal assistant who I've been in contact with for a number of years.

This was in reply to a query on portability and residency requirements for the Age Pension.

Basically I asked if Australians traveling overseas could be warned of their obligations and told what they are, set out in writing.

In part, the reply says this.

The department has some info on their website:

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/enablers/age-pension-if-you-travel-outside-australia,

https://www.dss.gov.au/about-the-department/international/policy/portability-of-australian-income-support-payments,

I can’t seem to get a clear answer from the department on the mechanisms used to inform pensioners of their portability requirements, so I think we will ask the department some questions about how they ensure people are aware of their obligations etc.

David Walden · April 20, 2018

9 hours ago, halloween said:

And while you are getting it, Kali's other arm is removing 50c in the dollar from your pension. Pardon me if I am not ecstatic.

None so blind as those who refuse to see...I am only talking about people who have reached retirement age, applied for the pension and have retired and have been granted the pension. (Not DSP, not Work start, not child care rebates etc etc. only the aged pension) very few have a job after retirement ( WAS AN EXCEPTION FOR 8 YEARS DRIVING A SCHOOL BUS)....in 99% of cases forget the income or deeming matters. Your assets level is determined mostly if you own a house or not...if you are single and own a house you live in it, it will not be an asset ( by Centrelink) and you will be able to have assets of $253.000 approx. Invested, super etc. you name it. The house does reduce your asset level entitlements. If you are single and don't have a house you will receive the aged pension and you can have assets of (for the 10th time) I say it, I say it, I say it again for at least the 10th time...are you ready for it...$456,750. Really give it a break. You are likely just confusing the other 10,000 or so people on this site that maybe following these posts. You are certainly not confusing me.

Edited April 20, 2018 by David Walden

halloween · April 20, 2018

15 hours ago, David Walden said:

None so blind as those who refuse to see...I am only talking about people who have reached retirement age, applied for the pension and have retired and have been granted the pension. (Not DSP, not Work start, not child care rebates etc etc. only the aged pension) very few have a job after retirement ( WAS AN EXCEPTION FOR 8 YEARS DRIVING A SCHOOL BUS)....in 99% of cases forget the income or deeming matters. Your assets level is determined mostly if you own a house or not...if you are single and own a house you live in it, it will not be an asset ( by Centrelink) and you will be able to have assets of $253.000 approx. Invested, super etc. you name it. The house does reduce your asset level entitlements. If you are single and don't have a house you will receive the aged pension and you can have assets of (for the 10th time) I say it, I say it, I say it again for at least the 10th time...are you ready for it...$456,750. Really give it a break. You are likely just confusing the other 10,000 or so people on this site that maybe following these posts. You are certainly not confusing me.

I really don't know what you are raving about. The topic is OAP, and I have posted nothing about assets or deeming. I am pointing out that the oh so generous extra tax exemption for OAP only has effect well after the income level where Centrelink is reducing your pension by 50c for every dollar earned.

If I am not confusing you, I have to ask who is?

Scott · April 21, 2018

Inflammatory post reported and removed. Continue and face a suspension. If you cannot be civil, then please go elsewhere. Your not wanted here.

LosLobo · April 21, 2018

On ‎20‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 2:34 PM, David Walden said:

None so blind as those who refuse to see...I am only talking about people who have reached retirement age, applied for the pension and have retired and have been granted the pension. (Not DSP, not Work start, not child care rebates etc etc. only the aged pension) very few have a job after retirement ( WAS AN EXCEPTION FOR 8 YEARS DRIVING A SCHOOL BUS)....in 99% of cases forget the income or deeming matters. Your assets level is determined mostly if you own a house or not...if you are single and own a house you live in it, it will not be an asset ( by Centrelink) and you will be able to have assets of $253.000 approx. Invested, super etc. you name it. The house does reduce your asset level entitlements. If you are single and don't have a house you will receive the aged pension and you can have assets of (for the 10th time) I say it, I say it, I say it again for at least the 10th time...are you ready for it...$456,750. Really give it a break. You are likely just confusing the other 10,000 or so people on this site that maybe following these posts. You are certainly not confusing me.

None so blind as those who refuse to see.....hmmm!

This post has more misleading information than you can shake a stick at.

As from 1 January 2015, the rules for new OAP applications changed.

In 100% of cases all financial investment is deemed and is income.

If you are single and own a house or not, you cannot get the full AOP if you have financial investments of more than $157,569 (for which $4,368 is deemed as annual income).

Maybe what happened in your past is not relevant to present readers anymore.

Edited April 21, 2018 by LosLobo

vogie · April 21, 2018

Although I am not an Ozzy, my friend is and has been trying to get his pension for about 2.5 years. He doesn't own an house as he has been living on a boat for the past twenty years. He sold the boat when he married a Thai lady and banked the money. He has only recently been granted a pension of about $35 a week, but they did tell him if he was a druggy he would get full pension and benefits. Where is the justice?

Edited April 21, 2018 by vogie

Nemises · April 21, 2018

Although I am not an Ozzy, my friend is and has been trying to get his pension for about 2.5 years. He doesn't own an house as he has been living on a boat for the past twenty years. He sold the boat when he married a Thai lady and banked the money. He has only recently been granted a pension of about $35 a week, but they did tell him if he was a druggy he would get full pension and benefits. Where is the justice?

Sounds like he’s got too much money in the bank (or invested). Read the post above by LosLobo which mentions exactly how much money he’s allowed to have before Centrelink start reducing the full pension.

sceadugenga · April 21, 2018

Abusive post removed.

Gobbledegook · April 22, 2018

3 hours ago, David Walden said:

Rubbish

What on earth are you trying to achieve here. I have followed this thread for some time now and all I see is you knocking anybody whose opinion differs from yours.

Gobbledegook · April 22, 2018

1 hour ago, David Walden said:

https://www.amp.com.au/news/2016/october/changes-to-the-age-pension-assets-test

I am not offering a personal opinion...All of my post on this subject are just repeating what the Centrelink's web site tells me. Most of it I know is correct because I am just writing from my own personal experience as well. If you read the above link it tells you in plain English that the asset threshold for a single ages pensioner who does not own a house is $456,750 less if you own a house. Perhaps the $156,000 figure is to do with "Job Start" or something like that. Under retirement age things are different. Over retirement age thresholds, deeming, tax matters all change, all a different kettle of fish. I've been down that road a dozen times already and still the challenge continues with monotonous regularity.

The main problem on this site is that it seems a whole lot of people are living in fairy land. Many are along way off getting the Aged Pension and seem to be wishing for certain outcomes "one day" Just read read some of the links to Centrelink I have put up. Stop being lazy and get on with it, it is a long process...WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS READ THE INSTRUCTIONS" I SAY. What I write about is what is contained in Centrelinks current documents. They are not my opinions.

The link you have quoted is from AMP not Centerlink. We have recently been made aware of their short comings as far as the truth goes in relation to customer service.

David Walden · April 22, 2018

1 hour ago, Gobbledegook said:

The link you have quoted is from AMP not Centerlink. We have recently been made aware of their short comings as far as the truth goes in relation to customer service.

Yes I have quoted from a link from the Centrelink's web site providing a link to the AMP who have a far simpler explanation of the Australian Aged Pension assets allowances. Centrelink's own explanation is quite complicated...does it matter? it is correct.

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/enablers/assets

Edited April 22, 2018 by David Walden

LosLobo · April 23, 2018

On ‎20‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 2:34 PM, David Walden said:

Quote

"I am not offering a personal opinion...All of my post on this subject are just repeating what the Centrelink's web site tells me. Most of it I know is correct because I am just writing from my own personal experience as well. If you read the above link it tells you in plain English that the asset threshold for a single ages pensioner who does not own a house is $456,750 less if you own a house. Perhaps the $156,000 figure is to do with "Job Start" or something like that. Under retirement age things are different. Over retirement age thresholds, deeming, tax matters all change, all a different kettle of fish. I've been down that road a dozen times already and still the challenge continues with monotonous regularity.

The main problem on this site is that it seems a whole lot of people are living in fairy land. Many are along way off getting the Aged Pension and seem to be wishing for certain outcomes "one day" Just read read some of the links to Centrelink I have put up. Stop being lazy and get on with it, it is a long process...WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS READ THE INSTRUCTIONS" I SAY. What I write about is what is contained in Centrelinks current documents. They are not my opinions."

John, in reference to the above and to your previous quote of "Rubbish"........

Obviously OAP rules have changed since you applied for the pension.

They are now complex and somewhat difficult to understand.

Maybe you should be able to accept this and move on.

My interpretation of the salient points of the new OAP regulations is:

As from 01 January 2015 new OAP pensions will be both income and asset tested by Centrelink and the pension paid will be by the method resulting in the least benefit to the applicant.

(Pre 01 January 2005, existing pensioners with existing account based income streams will have them grandfathered and they will only be asset tested)

Income from financial investments will be determined by deeming. The current deeming rates for singles are :

the first $50,200 of a person's financial investments are deemed to earn income at 1.75% pa and any amount above $50,200 is deemed to earn income at 3.25% pa.

The cut off point for full pension is income of $168 per f/n ie $168 X 26 = $4,368 pa

refer https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/enablers/income-test-pensions

So for $157,569 (financial investment ceiling for singles for full pension)

$50,200 X 1.75% = $879 and $157,569 - $50,200 = $107,369

$107,369 X 3.25% = $3,489
______ ____

$157,569 $4,368 pa ..... QED

In the case where you are income poor and asset rich with personal property, cars/boats, investment property, crytocurrencies, etc (excluding marital home), your pension might be based on the assets test.

E&OE

Always seek financial advice from a financial professional!

Edited April 23, 2018 by LosLobo

GTgrizzly · April 23, 2018

On ‎21‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 5:50 PM, LosLobo said:

None so blind as those who refuse to see.....hmmm!

This post has more misleading information than you can shake a stick at.

As from 1 January 2015, the rules for new OAP applications changed.

In 100% of cases all financial investment is deemed and is income.

If you are single and own a house or not, you cannot get the full AOP if you have financial investments of more than $157,569 (for which $4,368 is deemed as annual income).

Maybe what happened in your past is not relevant to present readers anymore.

Sorry mate, but your info in incorrect

I am 16 days off retirement and just been through all this in the last month

I have more than $157,569 in my super and so long as I don't use it, it will not effect my pensions

I went and sat in there office and was given this info, not just something I read

LosLobo · April 23, 2018

16 minutes ago, GTgrizzly said:

Sorry mate, but your info in incorrect

I am 16 days off retirement and just been through all this in the last month

I have more than $157,569 in my super and so long as I don't use it, it will not effect my pensions

I went and sat in there office and was given this info, not just something I read

I am only talking about getting the full pension, not part pension. Though there is one exception to the rule beside grandfathered account based pensions, and that is if your superannuation savings are preserved.

halloween · April 24, 2018

10 weeks after I applied for OAP and no decision as of yet, but the "your application has progressed" messages every 5 days have now stopped.

I have had 3 people tell me that their OAP took 6 months after application before payment began, back payment was made but allegedly this is at CL discretion (???).

The question is, do I live on my savings (assuming I have enough) or continue working after my retirement party? If I continue to work, will this income be ignored by CL or treated as income while (not) receiving OAP? If the latter, my current income of $1600/fn would then be reduced to <$700 after tax and pension reduction ($80 tax in first $400, then $240 tax and $600 pension reduction on further $1200).

Can't find anything on CL material re late pension payment, obviously they don't want to discuss their incompetence on application processing in the time they have allotted.

BTW tried raising this on CL website. Before you could possibly type the above, the session times out. How convenient.

tink2mutt · April 24, 2018

On 4/20/2018 at 8:04 AM, David Walden said:

None so blind as those who refuse to see...I am only talking about people who have reached retirement age, applied for the pension and have retired and have been granted the pension. (Not DSP, not Work start, not child care rebates etc etc. only the aged pension) very few have a job after retirement ( WAS AN EXCEPTION FOR 8 YEARS DRIVING A SCHOOL BUS)....in 99% of cases forget the income or deeming matters. Your assets level is determined mostly if you own a house or not...if you are single and own a house you live in it, it will not be an asset ( by Centrelink) and you will be able to have assets of $253.000 approx. Invested, super etc. you name it. The house does reduce your asset level entitlements. If you are single and don't have a house you will receive the aged pension and you can have assets of (for the 10th time) I say it, I say it, I say it again for at least the 10th time...are you ready for it...$456,750. Really give it a break. You are likely just confusing the other 10,000 or so people on this site that maybe following these posts. You are certainly not confusing me.

David is correct in what he says.

If you go to the Centrelink pension calculator here:

http://www.yourpension.com.au/APCalc/#CalcForm

and input $450,000 in assets for a single non home owner it tells you that you are entitled to the full pension. You can even print the evidence!!

Problem solved.

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