Australian Aged Pension

[totally thaied up]

After reading many posts here and seeing what some of your guys are thinking (as in extreme measures) to get the AAP, you need VERY compliant advice from a complex business accountant/trust lawyer/etc.

 

In some cases, it will take many, many years to recount your costs and the Kaos it will set into your lives going home two years before or after and uplifting family to do so and the such unless you bite the bullet and do it yourself, is extreme.

 

Some may not be even live to see the benefits. We don't think that we are going to die, but I have seen so many of my friends die at 65-70-72; you need to take that into account. If you do not have the money, go home for the two years and do it is all I could say as you need it to live.  

 

I will be kicked off my pension once my family dies. I could I suppose, get around it all; I have friends who only have cash in safes/deposit boxes here, get a pension but to me when yields are so good in Australia in shares and bonds, why do I need to do that?

 

Some of you guys have real hard choices to make. I could not do two years in Australia now. Two weeks every 4 years or so is hard enough!

[ELVIS123456]

5 hours ago, moojar said:

I have to agree - if they cannot save money AND gain a political advantage (or at least cop no political disadvantage) then it likely will not happen.  They - either party - don't so much govern the country as use their time in office to boost their chances of winning the next election.   Witness last week's GST "changes".  Liberal party totally ignored their own 'productivity commission' coz implementing the recommendations would have hurt them politically.  They went with a typical band-aid political fix instead.    

 

Anyway, to make this post relevant to AAP ? , here is a link:  http://www.oversixty.com.au/finance/retirement-income/2018/06/frustrating-pension-process-deterring-seniors-from-applying-to-centrelink/   The article is about how tough it is to fill in the application forms - cry me a river.  But I thought some of the comments at the bottom of the article re how long the approval process takes might be of interest to some on here.  

 

The website itself has quite "shallow" articles but I sometimes pick up useful information.  And if you adore the British Royal family you will enjoy the site - never noticed them refer to "the black duchess" like my wife does though. ?

 

I understand a little of the reasons why the OAP application system is so 'buggered'. It is the same reason why the Immigration Migration Visa system is also buggered.  The Public Service (APS) is 'managed' by people who largely couldnt organise a drinking party in a brewery, and most of those who work there dont care and/or know what a beer is.  If any APS manager ever tries to enforce things like 'accountability' on workplace output, they wil be attacked by the Unions and subjected to constant and never ending appeals and complaints. If any APS manager actually does something to improve outputs, and gets it wrong, they will be subjected to a severe reprimand and their employment record will be noted - actually doing something is a potential 'carreer limiting move' in the APS.  Smart APS managers wait for a 'direction' from above, which usually only comes about because of a political imperative, so that they can avoid any blame for whatever outcomes occur.  Meanwhile most APS workers have realised that working hard in the APS is like p**ing in a dark suit - no one notices.  The end result is that they all do nothing unless they absolutely have to and are directed to do it.  Now this is not the case across the board - there are many good APS managers and workers - but even the good ones are discouraged by the way things work - many of these serve their 20-30 years and then become 'consultants' making 2-3 times more money - the bad/lazy ones retire with a huge pension when they are 60+ (they all want a redundancy and work for years to get one). 

 

So why is it so difficult to apply for the OAP and why does it take so long?  See above.  You could literally remove 50% of the APS and it would not make any difference in most Departments and Agencies -  IF you got rid of the 50% who do bugger all and the reamining 50% wanted to and were allowed to actually do their jobs.  I can remember one Department where the company I was working with replaced most of their IT Staff with 24 people - there were over 200 employed !!  And almost 50 of those employed didnt actually have an official role. That same Dept had over 5000 more desktop and laptop computers than it had staff - most of which had 'dissappeared'.  You wouldnt believe it - the wastage and inefficiency is astounding.

 

[4MyEgo]

16 hours ago, totally thaied up said:

After reading many posts here and seeing what some of your guys are thinking (as in extreme measures) to get the AAP, you need VERY compliant advice from a complex business accountant/trust lawyer/etc.

 

In some cases, it will take many, many years to recount your costs and the Kaos it will set into your lives going home two years before or after and uplifting family to do so and the such unless you bite the bullet and do it yourself, is extreme.

 

Some may not be even live to see the benefits. We don't think that we are going to die, but I have seen so many of my friends die at 65-70-72; you need to take that into account. If you do not have the money, go home for the two years and do it is all I could say as you need it to live.  

 

I will be kicked off my pension once my family dies. I could I suppose, get around it all; I have friends who only have cash in safes/deposit boxes here, get a pension but to me when yields are so good in Australia in shares and bonds, why do I need to do that?

 

Some of you guys have real hard choices to make. I could not do two years in Australia now. Two weeks every 4 years or so is hard enough!

You have hit the nail on the head mate.

 

For those of us fortunate enough to be non residents and have invested in the ASX which is tax free (excluding unfranked dividends), it makes living here so much easier, especially when the cost of living here is half that of Sydney (food wise), even heaps better when it comes to building a house including land purchase, rent, cars, alcohol and lets not forget 200 baht to park your car at a provincial airport per day...lol.

 

Yes returning every 18 months for a week with the family, to see friends, family, doctors is a pain in the A, not to mention the $5k it costs (minimum) to rent a 2 bedroom apartment, a car, airline tickets, travel insurance, petrol, tolls, food, drinks, and some shopping, and I suppose I should be grateful because Medicare is still working for me, so I get about half back on all the doctors I see for the check ups on pre-existings and the PBS for the meds, but once mum passes in her 5 star nursing home, cannot see myself going back as it would be cheaper to see specialist here for my pre-exisitings at a private hospital, while I am on holiday here with the balance of the $'s saved...lol

 

Like I said in earlier posts which you have to agree on, taking the family back for the 2 years, the upheaval for kids etc etc is not worth it, as one would have to receive the AAP at 67 and receive it till they are 71 realistically to re-coupe the outlay, doing it on your own, would take 2 years to recoupe the money, then you have to weigh up being away from the family (in jail) in another country for 2 years, fark that 555

 

[moojar]

^^ Some people have tough choices, some no choice, and some of us have to decide whether 'sticking it to' the government is worth two years "back home".  

 

Me, I'm still living in Oz and the young 'uns are giving me the sh*ts - social media savvy and steering govt policy the way they want it to go.  They are the 'entitled' generation and they act like it.  "Old geezers getting govt money?  Taking advantage of investment incentives?  Not on, why should our taxes go to them?  They caused the housing affordability crises, they got free education, yada yada yada."   Makes me kinda determined to get the AAP just to piss them off!  ?

 

But seriously, I can understand the dilemma for those with a much younger wife, and young kids.  I'm still on my first wife, who happens to be Thai.  Our kids are now adults themselves.  Not such a big deal for us to go "home" for a couple years and spend time with the grandkids, maybe do the grey nomad thing for a bit.  We would have had 10 years in rural Thailand by then, will no doubt make a nice change to spend time somewhere cooler.  Or maybe we don't go back, that's a choice we can afford to make - we have worked hard and planned ahead to give ourselves a 'plan B'.  But ~$30k p.a. / ~B750k p.a. for the married pension - that is going to be hard to ignore.   

 

But that's us, YMMV as they say.  

 

And you know, I doubt that I will live to a geriatric old age.  But you have to plan for it just in case eh?  The alternative is potentially becoming some destitute bum.  My wife will live into her 90s anyway, it's in her genes.  30/35ths of a single-rate AAP will see her nicely thru to the end.  

 

  

 

  

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, moojar said:

^^ Some people have tough choices, some no choice, and some of us have to decide whether 'sticking it to' the government is worth two years "back home".  

 

Me, I'm still living in Oz and the young 'uns are giving me the sh*ts - social media savvy and steering govt policy the way they want it to go.  They are the 'entitled' generation and they act like it.  "Old geezers getting govt money?  Taking advantage of investment incentives?  Not on, why should our taxes go to them?  They caused the housing affordability crises, they got free education, yada yada yada."   Makes me kinda determined to get the AAP just to piss them off!  ?

 

But seriously, I can understand the dilemma for those with a much younger wife, and young kids.  I'm still on my first wife, who happens to be Thai.  Our kids are now adults themselves.  Not such a big deal for us to go "home" for a couple years and spend time with the grandkids, maybe do the grey nomad thing for a bit.  We would have had 10 years in rural Thailand by then, will no doubt make a nice change to spend time somewhere cooler.  Or maybe we don't go back, that's a choice we can afford to make - we have worked hard and planned ahead to give ourselves a 'plan B'.  But ~$30k p.a. / ~B750k p.a. for the married pension - that is going to be hard to ignore.   

 

But that's us, YMMV as they say.  

 

And you know, I doubt that I will live to a geriatric old age.  But you have to plan for it just in case eh?  The alternative is potentially becoming some destitute bum.  My wife will live into her 90s anyway, it's in her genes.  30/35ths of a single-rate AAP will see her nicely thru to the end.  

 

  

 

  

You gotta do what you gotta do, you paid your taxes, why allow others who haven't and the politicians that only care about themselves and their perks upon retirement at 60 to fleece us, fark em, I say.

 

Someone came up with a good option if it works at the time, i.e. house sitting, free rent, that would be a huge reduction to the outlay being recouped.

[sceadugenga]

I saw this elewhere in a response to a query about leaving Australia while on the 2 year portability waiting period.

 

They stop your pension for the period of absence. I left 3 times in my 2 years. 3 weeks , 5 weeks & 10 days. Pension was restarted as soon as I got back.

 

[giddyup]

3 minutes ago, sceadugenga said:

I saw this elewhere in a response to a query about leaving Australia while on the 2 year portability waiting period.

 

They stop your pension for the period of absence. I left 3 times in my 2 years. 3 weeks , 5 weeks & 10 days. Pension was restarted as soon as I got back.

 

I guess they want you to complete the 2 years in full, no breaks.

Edited July 13, 2018 by giddyup

[sceadugenga]

No, this means that you are not paid for the period of absence but your 2 years recommences with time already spent credited upon your return.

So you can break it (reasonably) regularly as long as you don't risk being declared a non-resident again.

[kevvy]

On 7/11/2018 at 1:18 PM, totally thaied up said:

After reading many posts here and seeing what some of your guys are thinking (as in extreme measures) to get the AAP, you need VERY compliant advice from a complex business accountant/trust lawyer/etc.

 

In some cases, it will take many, many years to recount your costs and the Kaos it will set into your lives going home two years before or after and uplifting family to do so and the such unless you bite the bullet and do it yourself, is extreme.

 

Some may not be even live to see the benefits. We don't think that we are going to die, but I have seen so many of my friends die at 65-70-72; you need to take that into account. If you do not have the money, go home for the two years and do it is all I could say as you need it to live.  

 

I will be kicked off my pension once my family dies. I could I suppose, get around it all; I have friends who only have cash in safes/deposit boxes here, get a pension but to me when yields are so good in Australia in shares and bonds, why do I need to do that?

 

Some of you guys have real hard choices to make. I could not do two years in Australia now. Two weeks every 4 years or so is hard enough!

Welcome to the club... they can stick their pension , miserable baskets, going back for a holiday next year for one month .Wifey loves it . Live there ? no way ,

[4MyEgo]

2 hours ago, sceadugenga said:

No, this means that you are not paid for the period of absence but your 2 years recommences with time already spent credited upon your return.

So you can break it (reasonably) regularly as long as you don't risk being declared a non-resident again.

I believe from what I have read here and there like yourself, you have to let them know you are going on a holiday, they will add the time absent to the clock, i.e. you went on holiday for 4 weeks, your period is 2 years and 4 weeks, a link below might help ?

 

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/enablers/age-pension-if-you-travel-outside-australia/31171

 

If you leave Australia temporarily but stay an Australian resident, this normally counts as part of the 2 years (This is from their site), so it contradicts what I said above, either way, always best to talk to them before you go, and when you get back.

 

 

[rhodie]

Amazing that we don't have a post from someone who returned for the 2 year sentence, pre or post 65, and left for a holiday once or twice in that time, or do we? I have a mate who returned 5 years ago after being out of Australia for close to 20 years. He left after 2 years when he turned 65 and got the pension. So he has been on the pension for 3 years. Gets the full pension plus rental assistance, less supplements, but returns for a week or 2 within 6 months. Has never had a problem so far.

[BEVUP]

9 minutes ago, rhodie said:

Amazing that we don't have a post from someone who returned for the 2 year sentence, pre or post 65, and left for a holiday once or twice in that time, or do we? I have a mate who returned 5 years ago after being out of Australia for close to 20 years. He left after 2 years when he turned 65 and got the pension. So he has been on the pension for 3 years. Gets the full pension plus rental assistance, less supplements, but returns for a week or 2 within 6 months. Has never had a problem so far.

So he would have to maintain the rent & ect 

Did he go for Portability 

Edited July 15, 2018 by BEVUP

[rhodie]

3 hours ago, BEVUP said:

So he would have to maintain the rent & ect 

Did he go for Portability 

He did not have to prove portability as he returned before he was 63 and left shortly after he turned 65. Not sure when his rental assistance is reviewed, but they kept paying him after he left. He maintains the address that he was renting at, but not the rent. He says as long as he returns within 6 months, nothing changes.

[BEVUP]

18 minutes ago, rhodie said:

He did not have to prove portability as he returned before he was 63 and left shortly after he turned 65. Not sure when his rental assistance is reviewed, but they kept paying him after he left. He maintains the address that he was renting at, but not the rent. He says as long as he returns within 6 months, nothing changes.

But don't they cut your pension if out of Auss more then a certain amount of wks 

[ELVIS123456]

17 minutes ago, rhodie said:

He did not have to prove portability as he returned before he was 63 and left shortly after he turned 65. Not sure when his rental assistance is reviewed, but they kept paying him after he left. He maintains the address that he was renting at, but not the rent. He says as long as he returns within 6 months, nothing changes.

The Lib Govt put forward a proposal in the last Budget that Pension payments etc. should be reduced after someone is away from Aust for 6 weeks. The current rule is that it is reduced after 26 weeks.  Labour and Greens blocked it, but the Libs will be back if they win the next election - and with a lot more 'cost reductions' for the OAP. 

 

Sounds like you mate is doing what we plan to do.  

[BEVUP]

2 minutes ago, ELVIS123456 said:

The current rule is that it is reduced after 26 weeks.  Labo

Now I see why 6 mths

[rhodie]

2 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

Now I see why 6 mths

They cut the 2 small supplements after 6 weeks, but you never really need to return and the pension will continue. If you return within 6 months, everything just continues and you are not subject to the 35 year residency rule.

[BEVUP]

1 minute ago, rhodie said:

They cut the 2 small supplements after 6 weeks, but you never really need to return and the pension will continue. If you return within 6 months, everything just continues and you are not subject to the 35 year residency rule.

So being in Auss & worked all my life, I could just leave & not come back.

Just lose the Supplements & prove that I still reside in Auss at friend or family member 

[rhodie]

1 minute ago, BEVUP said:

So being in Auss & worked all my life, I could just leave & not come back.

Just lose the Supplements & prove that I still reside in Auss at friend or family member 

If you are currently on the OAP, you can leave and will be paid. You don't need to maintain an address in Australia. You have portability. Portability is only a problem for those that have been living overseas. If you return from overseas 2 years before you are due to receive the pension, you can leave after getting the pension and still be paid. If you return after the 2 year period prior to getting to pensionable age, you can claim the pension, but even staying 2 years does not guarantee portability. Sorry, a bit of a mouthful, but I think I got it right.

 

[ELVIS123456]

10 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

So being in Auss & worked all my life, I could just leave & not come back. *

Just lose the Supplements & prove that I still reside in Auss at friend or family member 

* Only if you have 35+ years and you get portability approved before you go.

 

You will lose 'residency' after being absent for a period - even if you maintain a premises. 2 years should be fine, but somewhere between 2 and 5 years away (no set rule), CLink can and will decide that you are no longer a 'resident' for OAP purposes. 

 

[BEVUP]

3 minutes ago, ELVIS123456 said:

* Only if you have 35+ years and you get portability approved before you go.

the 35 yrs is no problem

& to get portability would be like telling them I plan a 2 yr holiday

* but if I don't maintain a place they would no doubt like to know where I will be returning to 

  ( maybe give up the rental & get one on return, or stay with family member ) 

[Freed1948]

So, If you are granted portability and return to live OS,

for an extended time [more than 2 years] and then return to OZ do you then have to

spend another 2 years there before you can return OS? 

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, Freed1948 said:

So, If you are granted portability and return to live OS,

for an extended time [more than 2 years] and then return to OZ do you then have to

spend another 2 years there before you can return OS? 

I believe once your AP is granted with portability, you can go and come as you please, the key word here is "portability", so I don't believe if you returned to Australia to live and then left again to live overseas that it would affect you, portability means just that, its portable IMO 555

[BEVUP]

3 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

I believe once your AP is granted with portability, you can go and come as you please, the key word here is "portability", so I don't believe if you returned to Australia to live and then left again to live overseas that it would affect you, portability means just that, its portable IMO 555

So now that I understand, the MAIN word is Resident.

Having to prove the connection you are still True Blue

[4MyEgo]

9 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

So now that I understand, the MAIN word is Resident.

Having to prove the connection you are still True Blue

Correct, once they can establish that you have re-established your residency, i.e. they are satisfied that you will remain in Australia as an Australian Resident, they will grant you portability, that said, once you go for that extended holiday overseas for however long it takes, they cannot do anything about it, because they granted you portability, which cannot be stopped under the legislation, once approved.

 

Like I said, there job is to make sure that they can establish you as a resident, once that's done, their job is done, case closed. Not everyone is going to return to sit it out for the 2 years period.

 

Will PM you some stuff of interest as it will take up a fair bit of the page here.

Edited July 15, 2018 by 4MyEgo

[CARLO BALDASSARRE]

Hi,

     so my thai  wife is NOT an Australian resident,so my old aged australian pension that i will receive will be based on "COUPLE WITH ONE ELIGIBLE PARTNER" OR "SINGLE".??

[heybuz]

On 5/17/2017 at 10:19 PM, 4MyEgo said:

I look at it this way, its around $400 a week, now $400 a week over here is around 40,000 baht a month, now over here that's your monthly expenses paid for, and if you worked for the 39 years that I did and paid my taxes, why let Mustapha and the like take it, not being racist, but 1/3 or more of them are on welfare, however you and me are more entitled to the pension than they are the welfare IMO, and if your married, I believe it doubles, although I am not sure what age the Mrs has to be, but she will have to have been in Australia for 10 years, so mine will be an 80,000 baht pension a month, I believe, well hope, nothing wrongs with that oy !

Age Pension rates – Couple (each member of couple, per fortnight)

	From 20 March 2018	From 20 September 2017	Increase
Base	$622.80	$613.60	$9.20 pf
Pension Supplement	$50.70	$50.00	$0.70 pf
Energy Supplement	$10.60	$10.60	$0.00 pf
Total	$684.10	$674.20	$9.90 pf

 

[heybuz]

42 minutes ago, CARLO BALDASSARRE said:

Hi,

     so my thai  wife is NOT an Australian resident,so my old aged australian pension that i will receive will be based on "COUPLE WITH ONE ELIGIBLE PARTNER" OR "SINGLE".??

yes,not single you will be assest as married and get 622.80 a fortnight. nothing for wife

Edited July 18, 2018 by heybuz
added a bit

[CARLO BALDASSARRE]

5 minutes ago, heybuz said:

yes,not single you will be assest as married and get 622.80 a fortnight

OK ,

   Is not an australian citizen nor australian resident, will i be assessed as "COUPLE WITH ONE ELIGIBLE PARTNER" IN REGARDS TO MY OLD AGED PENSION ..??

                           

 

[heybuz]

you are australian citizen, your wife is not you are eligible for the pension but you will be assest as married and be paid half of the married or couple rate. your wife will get nothing.your wife is not eligible.best dont tell them your married then you will get the single payment ,if full payment with benefit about 900 a fortnight. i take it your living in thailand