Plastic Bags

[AlexLah]

I am always amazed about the amount of plastic bags I end up with after shopping at Lotus or any other mall.

They make great garbage bags but the amount I recieve outperforms the amount I use.

It takes 10.000 barrels of oil to make 100 Million plastic bags, go figure.

Can this be done in Thailand, see Youtube clip.

[yorkman]

I am always amazed about the amount of plastic bags I end up with after shopping at Lotus or any other mall.

They make great garbage bags but the amount I recieve outperforms the amount I use.

It takes 10.000 barrels of oil to make 100 Million plastic bags, go figure.

Can this be done in Thailand, see Youtube clip.

It would be a great idea if it was. Not only that, they contribute greatly to the amount of discarded rubbish that you see lying around.

Thats the problem all round isn't it? The amount of packaging you purchase shopping at Lotus or wherever adds to the volume of bags you need.

And it would save a small fortune apart from the environmental issues.

[legag]

When I was in EU years back I liked the idea of charging you new plastic bags at groceries stores. GREAT idea. We, Thailand should start to do so. You don't know how much plastic we have been using and I think we are all aware of how much damage it causes.

[jstumbo]

They just outlawed these bags in China. Starting in June the super thin bags that your groceries come in will be outlawed. Stores will no longer be able to use these bags. Actually they will not be able to give customers bags of any type. If the store has environmentally friendly ones (I think some will biodegrade with sunlight "rather" quickly), then they can sell the new kind to you. Strange that they will not be able to give you an environmentally friendly one, but then TIC (This Is China).

[jstumbo]

When I was in EU years back I liked the idea of charging you new plastic bags at groceries stores. GREAT idea. We, Thailand should start to do so. You don't know how much plastic we have been using and I think we are all aware of how much damage it causes.

I wonder how many people just throw them away? I always use them as garbage bags. Not giving me plastic bags at the store will just result in me having to purchase plastic bags to put my garbage in. I wonder what they would say if I just dumped my garbage in the can without any bag? Probably start to smell pretty bad, and since it is in the hall and closest to my front door, I don't think that is a good idea.

[legag]

jstumbo, I think that is good enough at least you have recycled it ONCE before throw it away right after get all stuff in place but to really fix this problem in the first place I think we should start not to getting new bags everytime we go shopping. Re-use it until torn up.

[Heng]

Yeah, maybe one day there will finally be a $2-3 billion a year garbage bag industry here like in many "first world" countries. Then it'd be all okay, nevermind that you only use garbage bags one time and out (unlike the local use of product transport + garbage bag use).

[yorkman]

They just outlawed these bags in China. Starting in June the super thin bags that your groceries come in will be outlawed. Stores will no longer be able to use these bags. Actually they will not be able to give customers bags of any type. If the store has environmentally friendly ones (I think some will biodegrade with sunlight "rather" quickly), then they can sell the new kind to you. Strange that they will not be able to give you an environmentally friendly one, but then TIC (This Is China).

OK, lets hope they tackle next the coal fired power stations, the damming of the Mekong so all the "downriver" countries suffer etc etc.

Well its a start eh??

[GuestHouse]

OK, lets hope they tackle next the coal fired power stations, the damming of the Mekong so all the "downriver" countries suffer etc etc.

Well its a start eh??

You mean you'd rather they didn't make a start?

[Mobi]

This is one of my pet rants, but I'll try to be brief.

I live in a village, some 15kms from Pattaya, about 1/2 km from the local market in a small soi. The entire road and adjacent fields from the market to my house is 'knee deep' in plastic bags and other refuse, discarded by locals as they walk back to their homes from the market, past my front gate.

If it wasn't for the free lance rubbish recyclers that clear up periodically, we would surely be overwhelmed.

I have said this before , but it's needs regular restating.

Educating the population to keep their country tidy is a cheap win win for any government. Get a campaign going, get the teachers to ram it down the kids throats at an early age, and put a few public service ads on TV and radio, and within a few years you would see a big change.

Educate the kids to to love their country and keep it clean, and even to chastise their elders when they see them wantonly littering their beloved land.

Most western countries did this fifty years ago, and it really wouldn't cost much to do it here.

And ban 7-11 from issuing plastic bags for every single item that is purchased.

For more worthwhile than the farcical laws and restrictions on the sale and consumption of booze.

[legag]

And ban 7-11 from issuing plastic bags for every single item that is purchased.

For more worthwhile than the farcical laws and restrictions on the sale and consumption of booze.

New gov. please hear this!! It's the way to go!!! EDUCATION!

7-11 is a good sample here. You're so right and I'm with you. Gosh, every single item, I now have to tell them at 7-11 that I don't want the bag and inform them 'pls. help reduce using plastic bags'

[yorkman]

OK, lets hope they tackle next the coal fired power stations, the damming of the Mekong so all the "downriver" countries suffer etc etc.

Well its a start eh??

You mean you'd rather they didn't make a start?

No, thats a start. But plastic bags is the tip of the iceburg.

I do mean I would rather they stopped the vastly more important things.

They use the excuse of, as a developing country, why can't we catch up etc. And will soon overtake the USA as the most polluting country in the world. Huge development in coal fired power stations for one.

And, Thai related, and Laos, and Cambodia, and Vietnam, stop damming and draining off the Mekong for hydroelectric power and irrigation.

Have you recently looked at the Mekong in Nongkai in the dry season? I could nearly walk across to Laos. No fishing, no water to cultivate rice...

I certainly welcome that start, I just wish it was not superficial.

[onomataho]

Educating the population to keep their country tidy is a cheap win win for any government. Get a campaign going, get the teachers to ram it down the kids throats at an early age, and put a few public service ads on TV and radio, and within a few years you would see a big change.

They did this in America back in the 60s/70s and it was very successful. The government used a Native American (Indian) man as the showpiece. He stood in full head dress next to a garbage dump with a tear in his eye. I believe the tag line was: "Keep America Clean"

The ironic thing is that Indian reservations are probably the trashiest place in America...

Thailand can be cleaned up -- just have to train the boys (aka men) to clean up after themselves. Until their mothers (aka wives) do this...the boys will be slobs.

Edited January 10, 2008 by onomataho

[sgunn65]

The other day I bought some sausages and they took an age to wrap them but I have got used to the fact that a purchase takes 14 staff and 3 days so I wondered around. Later when I got them out of the carrier bag, then the small plastic bag and the smaller bag and the greaseproof paper I found that they had individually cling filmed each sausage!!!!!

But in my home you can't ake off a pair of shoes beofre they are wrapped in a plastic bag and tied with one of those really nasty small knots that you need long nails to get undone. Drives me fing crazy!!!

[permanent_disorder]

at least, this one was reported in thai news today. i saw it on TV.

[Wrong Turn]

I am always amazed about the amount of plastic bags I end up with after shopping at Lotus or any other mall.

They make great garbage bags but the amount I recieve outperforms the amount I use.

It takes 10.000 barrels of oil to make 100 Million plastic bags, go figure.

Can this be done in Thailand, see Youtube clip.

Make a change YOURSELF.

Tell the cashiers to bag more items in one, or less bags.

That's what I do.

But this thread is positive: you can inform other to do the same.

Including refusing a bag, when you buy a small bottle of GatorAid.

It's waste.

[billaaa777]

I use my plastic shopping bags as garbage bags, as I am sure many of you do. If I did not have them then I would need to buy plastic garbage bags to use. So what is the point?

[yorkman]

I use my plastic shopping bags as garbage bags, as I am sure many of you do. If I did not have them then I would need to buy plastic garbage bags to use. So what is the point?

The point, as Alex so carefully made, if you care to read equally carefully, is that he gets an excess over his garbage bag needs.

So do we.

And if people had to pay for them, they may be more careful in their use, hopefully they would buy biodegradeable bags, and they would not be discarded to blight the landscape.

[thaihome]

They just outlawed these bags in China. Starting in June the super thin bags that your groceries come in will be outlawed. Stores will no longer be able to use these bags. Actually they will not be able to give customers bags of any type. If the store has environmentally friendly ones (I think some will biodegrade with sunlight "rather" quickly), then they can sell the new kind to you. Strange that they will not be able to give you an environmentally friendly one, but then TIC (This Is China).

Keep in mind, this is China, big difference in laws and enforcement...

TH

AP updated 3:18 p.m. ET Jan. 9, 2008

BEIJING - Declaring war on the “white pollution” choking its cities, farms and waterways, China is banning free plastic shopping bags and calling for a return to the cloth bags of old — steps largely welcomed by merchants and shoppers on Wednesday.

The measure eliminates the flimsiest bags and forces stores to charge for others, making China the latest nation to target plastic bags in a bid to cut waste and conserve resources.

Beijing residents appeared to take the ban in stride, reflecting rising environmental consciousness and concern over skyrocketing oil prices.

Edited January 11, 2008 by thaihome

[raslin]

I'd like to take a paper carrier bag with me each time I go shopping.

Should be OK for 6 months or so, as I remember.

None of this plastic bag rubbish during the war, was there?

[pattyboy]

When I was in EU years back I liked the idea of charging you for new plastic bags at groceries stores. GREAT idea. We, Thailand should start to do so. You don't know how much plastic we have been using and I think we are all aware of how much damage it causes.

Yeah, many of the grocery stores in Canada do that, and I think it's a great idea. They charge anywhere from 3-5 cents a bag, and it really does inspire people to reuse their old plastic bags or buy cloth totes. I don't think it's the financial incentive (saving 15-20 cents every time you go shopping) but more a reminder to be responsible -- sort of shames the people who are walking out of the store with new bags.

Edited January 11, 2008 by pattyboy

[jstumbo]

They just outlawed these bags in China. Starting in June the super thin bags that your groceries come in will be outlawed. Stores will no longer be able to use these bags. Actually they will not be able to give customers bags of any type. If the store has environmentally friendly ones (I think some will biodegrade with sunlight "rather" quickly), then they can sell the new kind to you. Strange that they will not be able to give you an environmentally friendly one, but then TIC (This Is China).

OK, lets hope they tackle next the coal fired power stations, the damming of the Mekong so all the "downriver" countries suffer etc etc.

Well its a start eh??

I think the damming is actually caused by all the garbage in the rivers. Seriously though, I have seen so many rivers/streams/canals that are so full of garbage, not to mention the water is a green/brown/slate color because of all the chemical runoff.

[legag]

Yeah, many of the grocery stores in Canada do that, and I think it's a great idea. They charge anywhere from 3-5 cents a bag, and it really does inspire people to reuse their old plastic bags or buy cloth totes. I don't think it's the financial incentive (saving 15-20 cents every time you go shopping) but more a reminder to be responsible -- sort of shames the people who are walking out of the store with new bags.

It is a reminder - absolutely I'm pretty certain that this charging for bags will help us cut down numbers of plastic bags from stores.

Edited January 11, 2008 by legag

[jstumbo]

Yeah, many of the grocery stores in Canada do that, and I think it's a great idea. They charge anywhere from 3-5 cents a bag, and it really does inspire people to reuse their old plastic bags or buy cloth totes. I don't think it's the financial incentive (saving 15-20 cents every time you go shopping) but more a reminder to be responsible -- sort of shames the people who are walking out of the store with new bags.

It is a reminder - absolutely I'm pretty certain that this charging for bags will help us cut down numbers of plastic bags from stores.

But here in Thailand, I think it would need to be a law that makes it happen. I don't think a store would do this if their competition was not also doing it.

[meadish_sweetball]

jstumbo, I think that is good enough at least you have recycled it ONCE before throw it away right after get all stuff in place but to really fix this problem in the first place I think we should start not to getting new bags everytime we go shopping. Re-use it until torn up.

Sturdy textile bags made from natural fibres like jute and hemp work well and can be recycled many more times than plastic bags.

I had two I would use in Sweden for shopping - perfectly foldable and can be put in the inner pocket of your jacket. Might be a tad too big for here though.

Here in Thailand I always have many more plastic bags than I need for the rubbish.

I also think charging for plastic bags would be a great way to make Thai people start to seriously consider these things. When your wallet becomes involved is when you start to really think.

It really is way over the top sometimes - you go to 7 11 and buy a small pack of chewing gun, and the clerk puts it in a plastic bag for you without even asking first...

[gennisis]

OK, lets hope they tackle next the coal fired power stations, the damming of the Mekong so all the "downriver" countries suffer etc etc.

Well its a start eh??

You mean you'd rather they didn't make a start?

No, thats a start. But plastic bags is the tip of the iceburg.

I do mean I would rather they stopped the vastly more important things.

They use the excuse of, as a developing country, why can't we catch up etc. And will soon overtake the USA as the most polluting country in the world. Huge development in coal fired power stations for one.

And, Thai related, and Laos, and Cambodia, and Vietnam, stop damming and draining off the Mekong for hydroelectric power and irrigation.

Have you recently looked at the Mekong in Nongkai in the dry season? I could nearly walk across to Laos. No fishing, no water to cultivate rice...

I certainly welcome that start, I just wish it was not superficial.

Hydro power staions do not result in a loss of water downstream.After passing through the turbines the water is re-routed back downstream...or at least it should be!

[Mobi]

They did this in America back in the 60s/70s and it was very successful. The government used a Native American (Indian) man as the showpiece. He stood in full head dress next to a garbage dump with a tear in his eye. I believe the tag line was: "Keep America Clean"

The ironic thing is that Indian reservations are probably the trashiest place in America...

Thailand can be cleaned up -- just have to train the boys (aka men) to clean up after themselves. Until their mothers (aka wives) do this...the boys will be slobs.

I was watching Fox news the other night, and I can't recall the precise context, but one of the "older' presenters made the comment that when he was a kid, he and his family would think nothing about throwing all their litter out of the car as they drove along, and how America's attitude to littering and recycling has now changed

I recall England in the 1905's when I was growing up, and I distinctly remember the same careless attitudes toward litter. Then we had the "Keep Britain Tidy" campaign - which ran for years, and it certainly had a huge effect in cleaning up the country and raising people's awareness.

In an authoritarian regime such as they have in Thailand, where elders must be respected and the "we now best" syndrome is rammed down kids throats, it shouldn't be too hard to mount an effective anti litter and recycling campaign.

Last year I took my UK family to a beach in Koh Si Chang. It was absolutely covered with plastic bags, bottles and other litter. My niece, and her husband started picking up all the trash. Then my step son, and my brother joined in. After and hour or so many Thais also joined in, some of whom were running little eating shops along the shoreline. By the end of the day, the beach was spotless. But for how long?

Come on Thailand - clean up your country!

[AlexLah]

Newsflash!

Australia joins the war against white thrash!

[PattayaParent]

They use the excuse of, as a developing country, why can't we catch up etc. And will soon overtake the USA as the most polluting country in the world. Huge development in coal fired power stations for one.

If coal fired power stations use precipitators and flue gas desulferisation units they actually have cleaner emmissions than oil fired power stations and the World Bank and Asian Development Fund and where the money comes from for Third World countries to build power station now insist on having FGD units attached to the plant. There are also funds being put into place to add FGDs to existing plants to reduce emmissions.

Combined cycle expansions to plants are a good way to go though as it increases the amount of electricity into the net but doesn't increase the levels of emmissions.

[PattayaParent]

Hydro power staions do not result in a loss of water downstream.After passing through the turbines the water is re-routed back downstream...or at least it should be!

But the problem is the river is dammed and the water flow restricted and controlled so the amount of flow downstream is not as great as it would be naturally.