Who To Complain To?

[mrjohn]

I was just wondering who you can complain to if confronted by an immigration official who has his own bizarre interpretation of the rules.

For example, last year I was caught out by the new three-month rule about the 800,000 Bht in the bank.

The advice I was given on this forum was to re-enter on the 30 day exemption and then apply for a three-month O visa on the basis that I had sufficient funds in the bank. After the three-month period I would then be able to change it to a one-year visa. The immigration officials in Phuket steadfastly refused to do this but quietly told me that if I did two visa runs rather than three they would then give me the visa. Needless to say when I went back two months later having completed two visa runs they denied all knowledge of our previous conversation.

It was 4.30 on a Friday afternoon so I politely insisted and in the end, just to get rid of me, they gave me a one-year retirement visa.

But my question is this: There you are in the immigration office confronted by a complete a×××hole or even a corrupt one who do you turn to?

You can't really say “but a well-informed chap on Thai visa.com told me...”

Is there are complaints procedure?

[Onnutrd]

I understand you completely and find it common place among all government agencies, not just Thaialnd. Most people commonly refer to this as a the 'power trip', or at least my mother does~

At least from my experience, it ain't just a Thai thing..with most government agencies in New Zealand (whether it be the IRD, WINZ, Student Loan etc) the officials seem to act as if the rules are there for them to interpret themselves. They probably expect nothing but absolution.

It has positive and negative characteristics to it. The negative thing is they don't need to be nice if they don't want to be, but the good thing is you can butter 'em up:)

Also, I would not recommend using thaivisa.com as a reference in place of anything (some people might be mis-informed and so on..), but use it only as a guide. Check the immigration website and other relevant 'law' or 'rules' in consideration before making a complaint (so that your complaint can be upheld).

If you want to make a complaint I have been told by my thai bf that you can go to any Immigration Bureau and ask for a complaint form (they should have a these documents, and they should also give it to you). If they dont give it, you can ask to see their superior. Perhaps to speed things up and possibly get a positive outcome, it might be better to hand it to the superiors instead of say the official at the desk (would'nt trust 'em).

[lopburi3]

Did you request the issue of a single entry non immigrant O visa while you had 21 days or more remaining on your 30 day entry? They will not normally accept such a visa issue without meeting that condition.

It is hard to follow your posts but it appears you may have applied with less then 21 days remaining so they told you to make a second visa exempt trip; which you did, but then had less than 21 days remaining when you visited immigration? Sorry if I am wrong but am trying to understand what happened - often times there are little subtleties that can make all the difference.

[mrjohn]

Thanks again Lopburi

I really can't remember, I just gave it as an example but that may well be the reason for their refusal. Such a pity they could not explain that to me themselves.

My real point any way was about trying to get a proper explanation when you are actually in the Immigration office.

[naka]

It does indeed sound like a communication problem and not vindictive.

Naka.

[mrjohn]

It does indeed sound like a communication problem and not vindictive.

Naka.

I was'nt suggesting any vindictiveness just an unwillingness to help. Once again my point was where to go when confronted by a problem, unhelpful staff or widely differing interpretations of the rules?

This forum's very existence is itself testimony to the fact that despite having everything in place, time and time again people come up against corrupt, ill informed and poorly trained officials.

[naka]

It does indeed sound like a communication problem and not vindictive.

Naka.

I was'nt suggesting any vindictiveness just an unwillingness to help. Once again my point was where to go when confronted by a problem, unhelpful staff or widely differing interpretations of the rules?

This forum's very existence is itself testimony to the fact that despite having everything in place, time and time again people come up against corrupt, ill informed and poorly trained officials.

I honestly think you should put it in the "too hard basket" ... and leave it there.

No good will come to you from making a fuss, I fear.

Naka.

[mrjohn]

"I honestly think you should put it in the "too hard basket" ... and leave it there.

No good will come to you from making a fuss, I fear."

Thank You Naka,

I have gained a great deal of invaluable information here over the last few years. But your pointless and nonsensical response is typical of the sort of rubbish that can often make this forum so frustrating

[yorkman]

"I honestly think you should put it in the "too hard basket" ... and leave it there.

No good will come to you from making a fuss, I fear."

Thank You Naka,

I have gained a great deal of invaluable information here over the last few years. But your pointless and nonsensical response is typical of the sort of rubbish that can often make this forum so frustrating

To be honest, Naka's response seems far from nonsensical. I really don't see, particularly in Thailand, what you hope to achieve by complaining.

At the very best you will alienate the immigration officials if you ever choose to go back to them again. Do you think you will actually change anything?

I realise you are annoyed and frustrated, but it is best, usually, to take a deep breath, and move on.

[mrjohn]

A short tale about complaining:

Last year I shipped over my last few possessions from the UK

When it arrived in Bangkok TNT, the shippers, called to ask me to come and pick it up.

There would be a customs charge of 6000Bht.

I complained; for one thing I had paid for it to be delivered to Phuket and I certainly had no intention of paying any extra charges without seeing the bills from customs etc.

After a number of calls and emails the customs and airport handling bills were sent to me with a hastily revised total to pay of 3000Bht!

Again I complained, informing them that according to the Thai customs website, a holder of a retirement visa could import their own personal possessions free of duty (remarkably magnanimous of HM Customs I think all will agree)

More emails and calls ensued; the whole process took over three weeks and I made it absolutely clear I had no intention of paying a single satang for second hand items of no value. The price went down to 1500 but I still refused and two days later after a short detour via Nakhon Si Thamarrat the crate finally arrived and no fee was asked for. I have veard nothing since

And that is why complaining is useful.

Complaining changes things. Complaining exposes corruption, rights wrongs and stops injustice.

Now all I was trying to ascertain was does any sort of complaints procedure exist if you feel your visa application has been unfairly handled??

[Onnutrd]

I'm on the fence with this issue.

There are two points when it comes to making complaints.

1 - Make a complaint in a nice way (e.g. talking to the official politely)

2 - Make a complaint in a negative way (e.g. yelling at the official)

Both have their colourful attributes.

Making a complaint in a nice way - you genuinely try to be patient and positive about the situation, although you must express your dismay concurrently. In this way, you have a higher chance I reckon at getting what you want.

Making a complaint in a negative way - that'll only get you the security guys, slow the process down, and stress the officials (maybe loose face) so much that they don't bother doing anything about it. Managment, too, may take sides with their employee in this case.

Again, I'm still on the fence. Obviously if one party does something outright terrible then they may deserve to be yelled at. So, I guess it's about considering the situation first, and see what angle one can take in order to get what one wants.

[mrjohn]

I agree with you Onnutrd... I have been in Thailand long enough to know that losing you temper, raisng your voice gets you nowhere.

But if your case has been mishandled whom do you turn to?

[yorkman]

Well ok,

I have misundersttod your first post? Have you not actually now got the visa you wanted?

I can perfectly understand your persistance over your goods. You had something to gain (or rather not lose ) by persisting there. Quite right. But it won't stop them trying it on again with the next person will it? it looks like a bit of tea money really. Ergo, nothing has changed.

I just don't see what you think your complaint will change unless you have not got your visa. Immigration will still be incompetent/lazy etc etc, add your own generalisation.

Anyway, you did say..........

Now all I was trying to ascertain was does any sort of complaints procedure exist if you feel your visa application has been unfairly handled??

and I think you got that in Post #2. Good luck with it

[dr_Pat_Pong]

A short tale about complaining:

Last year I shipped over my last few possessions from the UK

When it arrived in Bangkok TNT, the shippers, called to ask me to come and pick it up.

There would be a customs charge of 6000Bht.

I complained; for one thing I had paid for it to be delivered to Phuket and I certainly had no intention of paying any extra charges without seeing the bills from customs etc.

After a number of calls and emails the customs and airport handling bills were sent to me with a hastily revised total to pay of 3000Bht!

Again I complained, informing them that according to the Thai customs website, a holder of a retirement visa could import their own personal possessions free of duty (remarkably magnanimous of HM Customs I think all will agree)

More emails and calls ensued; the whole process took over three weeks and I made it absolutely clear I had no intention of paying a single satang for second hand items of no value. The price went down to 1500 but I still refused and two days later after a short detour via Nakhon Si Thamarrat the crate finally arrived and no fee was asked for. I have veard nothing since

And that is why complaining is useful.

Complaining changes things. Complaining exposes corruption, rights wrongs and stops injustice.

Now all I was trying to ascertain was does any sort of complaints procedure exist if you feel your visa application has been unfairly handled??

A retiree has no tax or customs exemptions whatsoever. So you are doubly lucky. Have a reread of the Thai Customs website.

[TerryLH]

Years ago I used to use the immigration office in CM. On the wall, prominently displayed, they had a sign with a name and a phone number of a high ranking officer in Bangkok you could call with any complaints you had about the service or whatever.

I haven't noticed the sign in the offices I use now, but suspect I've just not noticed them.

Hope this helps a little. Sorry I can't recall the name or number for you.

Terry

[astral]

In the immigration office is Sri Racha there is a large board listing all the fees,

it also gives the name and address of the top man in Suan Plu.

You can write to him if you feel you have been badly treated.

[Joe Joe]

Did you request the issue of a single entry non immigrant O visa while you had 21 days or more remaining on your 30 day entry? They will not normally accept such a visa issue without meeting that condition.

It is hard to follow your posts but it appears you may have applied with less then 21 days remaining so they told you to make a second visa exempt trip; which you did, but then had less than 21 days remaining when you visited immigration? Sorry if I am wrong but am trying to understand what happened - often times there are little subtleties that can make all the difference.

I had just finished crossing the border at Mae Sai to get my 30day visa exempt stamp and was told by immigration that I had to go to another country to get a non-immigrant o visa for my retirement extension. So I went to Penang and got it. But you told me that immigration could have given the non-o on the back of the visa exempt stamp for a fee of 2k baht. They don't know their own rules or they were looking for some offer of tea money. Much cheaper to give them 5k baht than to take the long trip to Penang.

Now I face these same twits again who claim that I need 40k baht per month income with my 800k in the bank to get my retirement extension. I went to Suan Phlu to complain and get a letter or phone call from some official there to Mae SAi but was told by the information lady that that wasn't possible. I've tried the 1111 immigration number and couldn't get anyone to answer the phone. I tried many times.

Now I please would like to get a link to the page in the official immigration rule book that describes the retirement requirements, especially the part that deals with the 40k baht income per month if you are married to a Thai. I would like to have something official in my hand to show the guys at Mae Sai. Can you do that for me Lopburi3?

[lopburi3]

The rule is Police Order 606/2006 and there are links to two English translations and the Thai in the pinned items at the top of this forum.

If you want a retirement extension of stay it requires 800k in bank three months, 65k per month income/pension at confirmed by a letter from your Embassy or a combination of the two to amount to 800k. There is no discount for being married to a Thai. Section 7.21 of the above order.

If you want to extend by being married to a Thai it is 40k family income only. Section 7.17 of the above order.

[Joe Joe]

The rule is Police Order 606/2006 and there are links to two English translations and the Thai in the pinned items at the top of this forum.

If you want a retirement extension of stay it requires 800k in bank three months, 65k per month income/pension at confirmed by a letter from your Embassy or a combination of the two to amount to 800k. There is no discount for being married to a Thai. Section 7.21 of the above order.

If you want to extend by being married to a Thai it is 40k family income only. Section 7.17 of the above order.

Thanks for that. I have a copy now and that might make a difference.

I thought that you needed 40k per month income with your 800k in the bank if you are married to a Thai. I'm not married.

Cheers,

Joe